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The following update was sent by Ze’ev Drori to Tesla customers yesterday.
You know of course the saying “Good things are worth waiting for” … undoubtedly we were trying the truism of this adage longer than warranted, but we have broken the logjam. We are delivering the Roadster to our customers. Already 9 production Roadsters have arrived in California, another 3 arrive this weekend, and they will keep arriving at the rate of 4 per week (except for the scheduled factory shut down in the last two weeks of August). In fact, currently there are 27 Roadsters in various stages of assembly. In large measure we deliberately limit the production until we install our own born and bred final transmission by mid-September, at which time production will start to ramp up leading toward a monthly rate of over 100 cars in December.
From the start we planned a slow production rate for the first several months to allow us time to work out the kinks of production prior to increasing the rate of production. As mentioned above, an important mile marker of our progress is the development and implementation of Powertrain 1.5, which is going smoothly. Already we have prototypes running with the Powertrain 1.5 configuration and we are establishing the manufacturing facility for the gearboxes in our own facilities. The performance of this production configuration is extraordinary.
The Roadster delivery to our customers perfectly dovetails with the Grand Opening of our second Tesla store in as many months. The first was the one in Los Angeles and it’s a huge success, and now the one in the heart of Silicon Valley right near Stanford in Menlo Park. The store in Menlo Park replicates the unique customer experience so successfully present in the LA store and more, since in addition to sales and service it is the place where all final assembly, tests and preparations are made with each car prior to customers’ delivery. We are pushing forward with planning for our next stores in New York, Chicago, Miami and Seattle.
In other news, I have hired Mike Donoughe, an accomplished auto industry executive, as our Executive Vice President of Vehicle Engineering and Manufacturing. Mike spent over 24 years at Chrysler, where most recently, as Vice President of “Project D”, he had been tapped to lead their critical redesign of their mid-size vehicle program. Mike’s addition is an example of my commitment to build a world class team at Tesla, combining the best of what Silicon Valley and Detroit have to offer, to build this company into the next great car company. Keep an eye out for additional news on this front.
On behalf of Tesla employees world wide I would like to thank all of our loyal customers and assure you that we do our utmost to justify the faith that you have shown.
Ze’ev Drori
President & CEO
Tesla Motors
Roadsters in final assembly at Tesla Store Menlo Park
Thanks for the update, glad vehicles are flowing again.
Is there a chance you can get those customers who have received their vehicles to blog on their experiences charging / operating them?
Thanks for the updates. Having followed things since the begining the latest developments are the most exciting yet. The feeling is akin to watching my childrens first baby steps. I could not be happier for Tesla and the progress being made. I am still hoping to make my next new car purchase a Tesla Motors product.
Thanx for the update!!!! Sounds like things are geting ready to speed up. I live in Miami & cannot wait till the Tesla Store is opened here! Keep up the good work & GO TESLA!!!
Fabulous!
I guess I need to take me a trip to Menlo Park now. It’s nice to see the several Roadsters in varying states of final assembly, and to know that this is happening so close to home. Thanks for the encouraging update and the great photo.
oh the irony. tesla returns to menlo park. edison just rolled in his grave.
Ze’ev, three great updates in a row! This is very welcome news. I’ve yet to lose faith that Tesla Motors is well on its way to success.
Keep it up!
Oooo pretty colours … here’s hoping you make it down under in the next couple of years when I am due for an upgrade
“The store in Menlo Park replicates the unique customer experience so successfully present in the LA store and more, since in addition to sales and service it is the place where all final assembly, tests and preparations are made with each car prior to customers’ delivery. ”
Super cool idea.
What does “final assembly” include? Batteries? Motor? PEM? All? Are you guys planning to have this at all Tesla stores. I think it would be an excellent idea, although I’d imagine it would be a hard to manage this at every Tesla store.
It took a year or so too long, but it good to see that the obvious step of hiring a *real* car production person has finally been taken. I’m glad that Tesla is “growing up”.
Great news!
Keep updates coming… and give us more than press releases please!
A long wait, but here they come! Go Tesla!
“we deliberately limit the production until we install our own born and bred final transmission by mid-September”
I find this illogical. Why don’t you have Lotus make as many as possible and store them for a mass shipment to arrive in September and start installing the new power train at a rate limited only by your manufacturing process, and not limited by Lotus’s delivery schedule?
Joseph: If memory serves me right, from previous blogs the final assembly does include battery pack, motor and transmission. Certainly all Tesla stores must have hoists and equipment to service and therefore could do final assembly, but it only makes sense if shipping is significantly cheaper. I.E. If Lotus ships the car to the east coast and the motor etc.come from the west then assembly in New York or Miami would be logical. It would not be logical to ship all parts from California to Seattle and assemble there.
Look what happens when you forget to put a space between etc. and come.
Ze’ev: I have another question relating to previous blog about relocation. Now that your Rochester Hills group has been with Tesla for more than a year, maybe you could ask how many are willing to re-locate to California. I understand the advantages of hiring Detroit skills, but it would seem to me that having engineering all in one place would be even more desirable than having local manufacturing. If enough agree (90%?) then I think it would be worth the cost of re-location.
Mike,
that Menlo Park was in New Jersey (in an area now called Edison). This Menlo Park is in California, and the Wizard of Menlo Park would
probably love to see this operation.
AK
I saw one of these yesterday — a teal color, IIRC — driving east at El Monte & El Camino in Mountain View yesterday.
I’d like another
Roy,
I agree that Lotus should have been building as many gliders as they could, unless Tesla Motors was trying to conserve cash.
As for relocating the group in Detroit, it would be like relocating a group of computer guys from Silicon Valley. While co-location is beneficial, having a presence in Detroit is critical for an automaker. I suspect that Tesla Motors may eventually want to sell components / systems to the major automakers there, and they would need a team to help the majors integrate their products.
Does any one know what the Coefficient drag of the Roadster is?
This is so exciting! We’ve been reading about Tesla for quite awhile now - it’ll be a looooong time before we’d be able to afford one, but still I’m so happy they’re being made! I can’t *wait* to see them on the road!! Go, go, go!!!
Excellent. Carry on folks. I expect to see a line of successors over the coming years, including an economically priced family car.
I’d like to read about customers experiences charging , operating them
I feel sad that such a company that would offer such a benefit to society feels the need to overcharge for their cars.
If I need 100k+ to buy a car in these strapped times where we head for a recession, no wonder people stick to gas.
Come out with a car like this for 50,000 then we’ll talk!
Until then make mine texaco
Does “Arrived in California” mean customers have taken deliver or that they’re being worked on in Menlo Park still before going to customers. It might sound like a small difference but still needs some clarity.
AK, the Wizard of Menlo Park would HATE to see this in operation. Edison believed in DC and hated AC. I suggest you read up on the War of the Currents some time. The Tesla uses an AC motor for the engine. Something that Tesla designed and that Edison spent years trying to quash.
Dave T: customers may have taken delivery as I watched one pull a u-turn and speed away on highway 1here in the Bay Area this weekend…it sounded beautiful - I only heard the waves in the background
Yay, more roadsters! They couldn’t come at a better time. I wore my recently acquired Tesla polo today and felt great. On with the EV revolution. I am sure GM is really cursing themselves for crushing their EV program.
“I feel sad that such a company that would offer such a benefit to society feels the need to overcharge for their cars.”
Leon, get a grip. These first cars are almost certainly being sold at a loss, and once production gets into full swing the margin is still likely to be less than any major automaker’s for quite some time. Meanwhile, at initial volumes they could surely jack up the price much higher and still sell all the cars. No one is “overcharging” for anything. The fact that current batteries and electronics of this performance level are expensive is just that: a fact. And of course it’s worth noting that the next model (a sports sedan already well on its way in development) has a target price of $59,000; the master plan calls for a third model around $30k. When you take out the gas prices and the ICE maintenance, those are darn cheap prices. So keep your pants on; the Tesla for the rest of us is on the way.
Now, if you could get these to be affordable to those of us more affected by gas prices then I would be on the list
Jay,
I am quite sure they would be happy to sell you another. Loved your garage show on it. What number did you get ? When is yours supposed to be delivered ?
Roy: It seems to me that holding initial production to low rates is best, because you know there are going to be bugs your prototyping didn’t catch. It’s easier to fix design flaws in 40 cars than it is to fix them in 40,000.
PS everybody remember: DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.
“leon anderson wrote on July 14th, 2008 at 5:43 am
I feel sad that such a company that would offer such a benefit to society feels the need to overcharge for their cars.
If I need 100k+ to buy a car in these strapped times where we head for a recession, no wonder people stick to gas.
Come out with a car like this for 50,000 then we’ll talk!
Until then make mine texaco ”
Whatever this just shows how much you know about tesla. They are making they’re sports car first a car that has pretty close performance (albeit below 125 mph) to others costing close to as much. Plus its electric and new technology which always costs more. If you read any articles from the company they quite often say they are already working on a sedan that will be cheaper. Go educate yourself.
As a resident of Boca Raton, Florida in Palm Beach County , Florida i would like to suggest openning a plant in Palm Beach County , where as many cars as you can produce will sell like hotcakes and Palm Beach County offers tremendous ifinancial ncentives for companies such as yours as received by Scripts Research when they moved to Palm Beach County. Clean undustry is greatly desired in south florida as there will be a tremendous supply of workers with the state buying and closing of south florida’s sugar industry to end its polution creating a need to employ these low wage usa citizens. Costs in florida are a fraction of those in calfifornia. Please consider production and sales in Palm Beach county florida and if it is just to be a showroom/sales facility, i would recommend openning in Palm Beach County, Boca Raton/delray beach, highland beach area as opposed to Miami, as that is where the yuppie wealth is who will be buying your vechicle. Miami is quite undersirable to drive to for service related matters which will adversely effect your southeast florida sales. I moved to Palm Beach County from Maimi about 20 years ago due to the dangerous place florida had become and because my wealthy clientele were also moving north from miami at the time. Pockets of Miami are quite nice and if you were to have numerous south florida dealerships Miami would be ideal, but because one must travel to these locatations thru unsalfe miami, Boca Raton/Delray beach is the best choice. i look forward to seeing your cars on the road.
I would like to know, if the actual production, supply chain and general power supply of your fantastic company, is carbon neutral?
Sometimes I get a bit tired of all the whining by people who have probably never produced anything in their lives, other than low-quality methane. Dozens of companies tried the low-price route to electric cars and they sold dozens of cars, maybe. It is far easier for a company to establish a reputation at the high-end and work their way down. Tesla could have targeted the masses and all they would have done is complain about the lack of holders for their Big Gulps.
Do You have in plan some other models of this car ??? I have 10 month old baby and I can not take wife and baby with this 2 seat model, so I am wondering would You make some other body shapes for whole family ??
According to my sources, the area that later became the town of Menlo Park CA got its name in 1854. The name was more-or-less formalized by its use to designate a railroad stop there in 1863. The “Menlo Park” in NJ, of which Edison was “Wizard,” took its name from that of a failed real estate development, which was actually within the boundaries of Raritan township (renamed Edison since 1954), much as the troubled Coyote Valley real estate development region is technically in South San Jose CA. Edison didn’t set up his “Menlo Park” lab until 1876. The California town seems to have the older and more substantial claim to the name, so it’s not surprising that so many people (at least on this side of the country) initially think that Edison must have worked here in California during his glory days, perhaps as the original “Silicon Valley” pioneer, but no!
Thanks for the update.
Am curious. With the news of GM (and other dinosaur American car companies) closing manufacturing plants throughout the U.S., had Tesla Motors given any consideration to utilizing them?
What?!? There’s no holder for my Big Gulp? That does it; I’m canceling my Roadster order immediately!
I congratulate everyone on the Tesla team for turning into a tangible reality the existence of a high performance, electric vehicle.
The prospective opening of a Tesla store in Miami will not only magnify Tesla’s exposure to the multi-cultural community inherent in the city,
but also will find many innate advocates for a ZEV in this naturally subtropical environment. Opening the store in Miami is definitely a good choice.
Although the high-end Roadster may be not financially feasible for most, our hearts are set in on the future sedan.
Thank you for proving that a high performance ZEV is possible!
Keep up the good work!
@Roy
Having Lotus build gliders (cars without the power trains) in advance would be a good strategy if every Roadster were the same. But customers on the wait list have been promised that they aren’t committed to their car until 3 months before production of their Roadster. If Lotus were to build a customer’s glider a year before Tesla finished the car, the customer would be locked into their Roadster (as well as the options they chose). This is a $100,000+ investment, so Tesla needs to be very good to their customers.
Julian,
They are doing the best they can under extreme pressure. Just the fact that they are taking the chance at what they are trying to achieve gives them a pass on planting a tree today.
When can I buy one in Europe?
I understand that the Whitestar project is still in the development phase, but isn’t that production line supposed to be in Albuquerque? I rolled by where I thought the plant was supposed to eventually be and there are still no signs of construction. Anyone have an estimate of when ground breaking is expected. I’m not whining about the development rate or Roadster costs; I think Tesla has the right plan in action. Nothing better than to have those who can, and will, afford it finance the R&D for those of us who cannot. I just plan on a move to that area soon and can’t wait to boast that the sedan is in production there.
Julian, that’s downright silly. Tesla’s job is hard enough without being laughed out of the room by suppliers after TM demanded that they somehow make their whole operations carbon neutral. And, by the, way, why so, many, commas?
This is a first step toward a long-term vision. Tesla’s work will help to finally defeat the fossil fuel giants, ensuring a real future for my children & yours. This is a good thing; let’s just hope they become profitable so that they can eventually produce the lower priced vehicles we ALL need!
Thanks, Tesla Motors!
So pumped. Always love to hear about progress. I’m rooting for Whitestar in the PAXP.
I have already decided that I am never buying a gasoline powered car again (unless I can someday afford a 1961 E-Type Jaguar that I have always dreamed of). It may not be for another 5 or 6 years, but I look forward to the day when I can buy my own Tesla!
Great job - keep it up, there are many of us waiting for your success to reach the masses!
Thank You for caring so much about America and the world. You have created a great auto and I can not wait until
I can afford one. The family cars coming are awesome. And I also thank you for your solar program, making it
possible for us regular people to start looking at being able to start helping to slow down the flow of oil into our
country and the flow of money out of our country. Thanks again and please keep up the good work for this thing
you are doing is going to change the Quality of the world
I just want to say, though I am no Global Warming crusader, you could put me in the denier crowd, I love this car and love the idea it will change how the World looks at Electric Cars.
I hope it works out. I may start a website on it.
As far as carbon neutral, the benefit of the car far out weighs any carbon the manufacturing of it may produce. In essence, the company is Carbon Neutral.
cow22boy,
That plant was moved to CA. Better deal than NM could provide.
CoW22BoY, the Albuquerque plant got canned. Production will be somewhere in California. www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=60
I think this idea is excelent.
I try to find a e-mail to send some data, but find none. Do you have any e-mail to contact you. How about an e-mail to investors ?
Thank´s.
Great news, my congratulations! Your experience in electric cars will be of great interest to other car manufacturers soon. Watch out to choose the right partner and stay with your current path. The masses want an alternative and it should be electric!
CoW22BoY - about the Albuquerque site, sorry to break it to you, but that idea was canned — www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2008/06/30/daily11.html
Kevin M: Re: manufacture gliders sooner. A year? I was thinking that this policy might get as many as 100 roadsters into customer hands anywhere from a few days to a month earlier than otherwise. And when I say as fast as possible, I do not mean at the expense of quality. This blog suggests that the production of gliders is being deliberately delayed because the transmission is not ready, and I don’t see the need for this.
Roy, it costs money to store inventory. Especially for something like a nearly-complete vehicle. Look up “Just in time” production methods.
Is there a reason that the main blog post seems to flip-flop so often between “Executive Appointments” and this article?
Many congratulations on this development! As a Texan sun worshiper, I very much want to own an electric vehicle. As soon as you make the Tesla Minivan, I’ll buy it!
Again, does anyone knows what the Coefficient drag of Roadster is?
Are there any plans on making a family sedan? I would bet that many people would jump at the chance to buy one of those cars.
I love it very much as production is undergoing very fast and delivering it to customers….
but alas it is very costly please reduce price it, otherwise if you want keep that price then please rename your company as Costly motors and not TESLA MOTORS please…because Honorable Late Mr. Tesla was pro people…and his experiment was meant for masses…of course free of cost…but you have to reduce the price of your cars of TESLA MOTORS and should be available to the all people in affordable prices.
if anything what wrong I’m saying please sorry for that…
well keep it up TESLA MOTORS!!!
anyway have a nice day!!!
prashantha venkataswamy
This is something I have dreamed for years. Id love to just buy the parts and put this together myself. Even better id love to work for this company. Makes me wish I had all the education and experience..All i can do now is study more. And wait untill the end of this year when Tesla goes public.Cause I plan to invest, profit and buy one. (1.5 package)
How about a 3.0 package = 475+hp 350 lb-ft torque maybe a sporty 6 spd tranny. This will kill other supercars and the consumer would feel more value even if you dont get the 220 mile range. It can be done.
If you ever design a track/race car I want to be your driver. I called it first, I am the best.
Chris,
I have found that true many times as well. Many times when I go home after work the pages that come up are completely out of date ( not only hours but sometimes day) while at the office they are current. I thought it was a setting at home but maybe not.
Is it a cache issue or something. I have noticed when I empty my cookies and files it tends to update. But that does not always work either.
I am looking forward to a post on Monday about the MP store opening. And I am hoping that now that the logjam of Roadsters has been substantially cleared up and they are now getting to the public more often that TM will see fit to update us on the Whitestar as well - I am sorry but I refuse to call it Model S. That is just dumb sounding. Maybe simply the Tesla S might be OK but Model S is wierd. Maybe the 225S for 225 miles. As upgrades are made to the Battery Pack - as they now call it - then the model name would change as well. Like the 225S, the 300S or the 350S. Many cars do that for engine size so why not TM for battery size.
Where and when do you expect to have a store in Seattle? I would be interested in knowing!
John K.,
Yes they are planning a family sedan. Announcement is supposed to be VERY soon. We have been waiting with baited breath for it. Supposed to be a luxury sedan in the $60,000 range. 5 seater with 225 mile range. Out on the market in 2010 ish time frame.
Prashanth,
Obviously you have not taken the time to actually read the web site. The plan is to produce mass market cars for the general public. This is just the first step in that process. They are VERY much honoring Nikola’s name !!! Next car out is a $60,000 sedan followed by a $30,000 compact. It takes time to get the technology down from the rich to the masses but you should have yours in 3-5 years
“Are there any plans on making a family sedan?”
“but alas it is very costly please reduce price it”
“How about a 3.0 package = 475+hp 350 lb-ft torque maybe a sporty 6 spd tranny….It can be done.”
Anyone ever notice that as more time elapses after a blog post, the comments get less and less informed? Really folks, these answers are all over. Yes, John, there are plans for a sedan…see all the comments above about “whitestar” and “model S”? Prashantha, this tech just isn’t cheap yet; Tesla’s doing everything they can to make more affordable models, starting with the aforementioned sedan…note that this same complaint was asked/answered several times above. Shadrick, why on earth would you want a 6-speed transmission on a motor that has maximum torque from zero to 10k rpms?
Ford has it’s Mustang
Chevy has it’s Corvette
and now Tesla has it’s Roadster.
Can’t wait to see what the other models turn out to be like, but I definitely want a Roadster. Pity I’m north of the boarder, but I’ll find a way to snag one of these, you wait and see
I live in the Caribbean and can’t wait for a Jeep “like” Tesla to hit the market. Our roads just aren’t suited to the roadster model and likely never will be. A family sedan is not really our market either. But if Tesla ever makes an affordable, Jeep “like” model, I want dibs on the first delivery to the British Virgin Islands!
Great idea and kudos to Tesla Motors for making it a reality! It’s about time somebody took the electric car seriously!
Hey Tesla customers: Any feedback yet from those lucky ones who recieved their Roadster’s? Is it all you thought it would be? Pro’s? Con’s? Pictures of your ride?
Thanks for your time.
I would like to set up the company to install all of the charging stations across the U.S. highway system so that instead of a meter dispensing gasoline, you put in your credit card and it dispenses wattage and shows it moving through the line. I would think that the first place to install would be the reststops. When generation 2 and 3 are rolled out, can there be a device installed to handle a full recharge in only 30 minutes versus 3 hours? That way, when families stop for a lunch or dinner break traveling cross-country, they can recharge. If so, ZEV will take over like a weed. I’d call the company “ZIP Charge” and hook up with McDonald’s to charge cars at every free-standing store.
Many years ago I owned a Lotus 7 while living in England for a time. Your production photo reminded me of the “feel” of the Lotus factory and their crew. Always, each vehicle was produced with care, skill , pride and love. for the design. The Tesla line is gorgeeous and I’m in love with the roadster. Though beyond my means : If you ever need a baby boomer gal to drive one around on the East coast - please call me. In the meantime I’ll continue to live vicariously through the Tesla website. Awesome design. Someone is going to have a heck of alot of fun!
In 1971 upon viewing a hacked together Honda 750 with car batteries and an electric starter motor from a car welded in its place, my High school electronics teacher prophetically stated, “Well boys…You’re looking at the future”. Since Tesla isn’t claiming any “breakthrough” technology to support their claims, don’t the “normal” laws of storage and physics still apply when calculating performance? If you’ve watched an electronic “Instantanous fuel milage” gauges on a newer car you’d see cars with average fuel mileages of say 20, dip down to 3 and 4 when accelerating. That is a huge drain on your battery. Some of us don’t seem to realize that the claimed 200 miles per charge won’t be able to deliver that if you are using 180KWs sporting around. (Where is all the “electricty coming from to charge our EVs? Oil? Natural gas? Nuclear? Windmills?Its got to be generated from something). The huge advantage gasoline has is that there is a lot of calories packed into each gallon and that as you use up the energy the weight of it “disappears”. The weight of the rechargable battery is the same fully charged or totally flat, and energy densities are no where near that of gasoline…… The future will be made of efficient low horsepower cars, not 375 Hp Viper types. My EV club friend says that they can get ahold of a Lithium- something type battery….for $10,000. For now they are sticking with lead acid golf cart batteries. GO Tesla! Let’s get the battery development funded and energized!
CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE DRAG COEFFICIENT OF THE ROADSTER IS?
DARRYL PERHAPS YOU CAN?
:(
Enough prancing and preening over your 100K plus car. Its electric, (good), but its never going to have an impact on the ecology because of its out of reach price tag for most of us, (very bad). If you can afford a Tessla, you can afford the gas. Where’s the “Volkstessla” ???????? What a silly idea to make an electric car that only rich people can afford. There aren’t enough of them to effect any pollution concerns so I don’t get the point ot the car at all. Oh, wait, you might get rich. Then again, how many people who can afford a 100K plus electric car are going to buy one. I wouldn’t.
Kevin, I am not really fond of Model S either, but you need a consistent name for it (does Whitestar violate copyright or naming rights for anyone else?). We don’t know how frequently battery pack updates will come, so it might get confusing to include the original range rating in the model name the way you suggest. However I am not sure how I would denote greater range (save it for a new model year? Use an extra letter?). I assume Tesla is unlikely to market two Model S cars with different ranges (at least initially - after they earn a spot amongst the big automakers they would have more freedom to stock and build a variety of models tailored to different uses).
I think the future is upon us. I would like to compliment all involved in this revolution. Progress sometimes needs a push and Tesla , OPEC and the prius are that push. I hope to one day help propel the dream. Great work!!!
I keep seeing posts like Terry’s above. To start with I wonder if they even lookover the site at all. If you look hard enough Terry you will see the reasons for Tesla to start with the high-end vehicle. Maybe have a mission statement thats always visible to let people know the reason they chose to do it this way. It makes perfect sense to me…..
I’ve got cash in hand just waiting for you to open a dealership in Orlando, Florida. California isn’t the only place in the world… hurry and get moving in Florida.
@ ronal IQ
The drag coefficient of the Roadster is 0.365
Can’t wait for a store in Seattle, although I’ll be ordering one before then. Go Telsa!!
Vawlkus,
The Roadster is simply not on the same level as a regular production mustang - the GT500 KR is closer, though the Roadster has more in common, in terms of style and rarity with the Ford GT. As for Corvettes, the Z06 is beneath it, and the forthcoming ZR1 is probably going to be more rare. This is all, of course, ignoring the electric versus ICE factor, which differentiates the Roadster the most. And it ignores the most obvious cousins: the Lotus family, the most costly (desired?) is the Exige 240.
Personally, from the above mentioned cars, I’d take, in order:
Ford GT
Roadster
Corvette ZR1
Elige S 240
Z06
GT500 KR
But that list acknowledges my own love of gadgetry, which makes the Roadster higher rated than its sheer numbers or looks would suggest.
Thanks BARRY for the information!!!
I DO HOPE, AND EXPECT BETTER A BETTER DRAG COEFFICIENT FOR THE WHITESTAR.
:)
We ask you to familiarize with the given site, for construction of the new car.
Yeah, I love the car, it is like one of those toy electric race cars I had when I was a kid only in real size. I’ll certainly buy when I have the cash.
Hello again, I bring fresh news from Portugal. One of the most prestigious Auto magazines in the country named Turbo published a section this month related to current fuel choices, Gasoline, Diesel and Gas. They made a sort of advan. and disadvan. of all. In the end they give the possible choice of electrical and hybrid solutions for the future. When I was already thinking of sending them a mail complaining why they didn’t mention Tesla Roadster, I turn the page and there you go 2 pages dedicated to Tesla Roadster with a big photo of the car covering both pages. This is very good publicity I hope I can see one in our roads soon.
This is the website of the magazine sadly only in Portuguese aeiou.turbo.pt/
@Gabe
You missed my point I think.
The Roadster is Tesla’s ‘flagship’ car, the car they’ll probably be noticed because of, in the same way that the Ford Mustang is Fords iconic car, and the Corvette is the iconic Chevy car.
Keep plugging away Tesla. The world is patiently waiting……
Chris,
I totally agree. I love Whitestar much better over say 225S or 300S. But also keep in mind that Merecedes puts several badges on the same car with different engine sizes. As do many other makers. Seems to work well over international borders. I realize that in the next few years it may not make a difference to get a 225S or a 250S but it would certainly reflect a model change well. Especially since range seems so important. But then what do you do when you bought a 225S and later replaced the battery after 5-6 years and now it is really a 350S… I don’t know what was so bad about Whitestar. I have grown very fond of it after all of this time I guess.
Vawlkus,
Fair enough then.
Andy Chiodini, good luck with your new business. I hope you find economical ways to deliver 100kW+ (to meet your 30 min charging time) at rest areas and the like; it would be a major boon to lots of other industries as well. And I also hope you find enough demand for the service in spite of the fact that 95% of drivers will be fueling at home instead of at your stations.
JohnSwick, you do a good job of stating the basic obstacle: the relatively low energy density and relatively high cost of batteries. However, let me mention a few things you may have missed:
First off, you need to consider the whole system’s weight rather than just the fuel when you compare densities. My car only carries about 85lbs (14gal, 513kW) of gas…but it’s carrying around 1000lbs of engine/tank/pumps/etc. to use it. That leaves a systemic energy density of 472W/lb, vs. 6032W/lb for just the fuel. Considering that the Roadster is only carrying ~200lb of drivetrain around (along with 1000lb of batteries containing 53kW) its system density is around 44 W/lb. Still less than a tenth the gas car…but wait, there’s more.
Next, the dramatic difference in efficiencies comes into play: a 90% efficient Roadster drivetrain can go nearly three times as far as a typical ICE car on the same amount of pack/tank energy. So the 44W/lb in the Roadster is more comparable to a car with 132W/lb of drivetrain/fuel. Still only about a quarter what mine has, but probably getting close to Hummer territory.
So, to pick up some of the slack, Tesla lightens and streamlines the rest of the car. It’s expensive, and maybe unfair, but it apparently has a big impact; they squeeze 221 miles out of that tiny 53kW, while my car only manages about 340 from its 513kW. Without the changes (from the figures above), I’d expect a range under 100 miles. They more than double that, so that means the overall useful energy per lb is more than half that of a gasoline system.
More than half. Still not there, to be sure…but a lot closer than it seems if you’re just comparing the (fuel) densities. And batteries are still quite pricey…the Roadster’s is definitely of the $10,000 type your friends covet. But with $/Whr falling fast, and Whr/lb going up at the same time, we’ll get there. And with a kW from the grid now costing only a fraction of a kW from gas, the really important part (cost/mile) will be at parity shortly…in many parts of the world it’s there already.
Yes, $100,000 IS greatly overcharging. Worse than that, it makes the technology unavailable to people who could and would actually use it. People that can afford to spend that much on a car don’t care how much gas costs, and most of them will go ahead and buy a Porsche or the like instead. The only way the electric car is going to make any difference is when real people can afford to drive them. Until then it will just be a novelty. Build one that goes 80 instead of 150 MPH and cost the same as a Dodge Stratus or a Toyota Camry and you’ll have something.
Very exciting to know that electric car will be available to the public in the near future. Appreciate your effort in providing what this country needs to become energy independent. Your car will help us reduce the 700B dollars outflow from this country for oil consumption. Good luck and hope to buy your car in the future.
Paul,
I’m really tired of hearing people make the statement “Anybody who can afford this car, doesn’t care about the price of gasoline anyway.” I can afford this car and hope to have it delivered early next year. If you’re not in a position to afford it, what makes you think you know what I care about? I do care about the cost of gasoline, not just for me but for you and everyone else as well. This won’t be my only car and until the technology can be applied to a wide range of vehicles, my other car (a truck) will be gasoline powered.
Additionally, Tesla (and the cost of the roadster) doesn’t make the technology unavailable to others. The opposite is the case. By investing millions of dollars to build and create this new technology, they have started the cost reduction cycle that we have seen so many times. Are you old enough to remember when a Texas Instruments pocket calculator cost over $100? How much does a calculator cost today? Some companies give them away as promotions! Personal computers were very expensive when they first hit the market. But, as that technology advanced and spread, the costs to the consumer came down.
Read a little deeper into the Tesla web site and you’ll see that their business plan has always been to start with the higher priced vehicle to absorb the cost of the research and development, to create the DNA in the next step in personal transport evolution, then to move onto more affordable cars like Whitestar (Model S) and the Bluestar. If you don’t know what these projects are, you need to read more on this site than just the base price of the roadster on the spec sheet.
Many people (who can afford this car) have given great sums of money with little more than faith and a promise, to a group of people willing to try something where many before them have failed. The Chairman of the Board has said publicly many times, “The Roadster it’s self will not change the world. But the technology it represents will.”
You need to take a few minutes to read further and understand why things are the way they are before you insult me by claiming to know what I care about.
Tim
3 words …..
WHITESTAR ANNOUNCEMENT PLEASE !!!!!!!!
Hello!!
I have a question. With the new cutting edge Spray on Solar collectors that are 80% efficient, will we be seeing a Tesla painted with a spray on Solar collector? I would love to have a car that does 0-60 under 4 that is powered by it’s own paint! What is the likely hood that you guys can achieve this? - Thanks,
Gian
I’ve been an electric vehicle supporter for five years. I owned a Nevco Gizmo for 5 years and just sold it. I now have had a Zap Xerba PK for the last year and a half. I don’t mind the short range as I use it to run to work, groceries, and college quite often. But the companies are disreputable and the engineering is shoddy.
I’m glad a company has stepped up and made a serious effort to make a real electric car. The technology is not new, but the refinements required to make a long distance, commercially viable solution are. I work at a major silicon manufacturer and know design and implementation cycles. The first production runs of ANYTHING are at a loss from R&D money spent and even the most stringent validation may not uncover all the initial bugs. Their vision in this regard is perfect in my opinion.
If you can make a high end, high performance model of an electric car, that technology can be cost reduced in increments until it is available to a wider consumer base. They have this car in initial production phases. Electric motors are vastly more efficient in terms of usage of available energy, pollutants versus work, and sheer torque versus weight. No kidding its going to have incredible sports car potential. Once they get their production rolling, work out any kinks in the technology, get a solid vendor and investor base, and get some industry recognition and standing- they will have the required backing to go head to head with the big ICE car companies.
They are going at it in the right manner. They are taking their time and improving incrementally. Once they get in the $30k range, I will be proud to buy one of their vehicles.
Gian,
That technology is still in the future even though it is currently under development. When it does come out I am sure TM will look at it but I am also fairly sure that the surface area on the car is insufficient to be able to produce the quanitity of electricity needed to run the car. I am sure many years from now we might see something like this viable but right now it is WAY in the future and still impractical.
It is outstanding that an auto manufacuter is completely selling electric vehicles. Granted there is no chance I can afford one right now, but truly wish I could. I main thing that I want to see is marketing for this product in areas other then California. I’m still amazed that people don’t realize that electric cars can go further then 40 miles on electricity. National advertisement of this vehicle and its abilities would create an enormous demand.
Would you consider opening a production plant for Europe in Croatia? After all, Tesla WAS from Croatia. So far in Croatia there were no automobile production plants, atlhough Peugeut tried to open one and gave up. But we have a good supply of electric engineers, and a history of success in that business - e.g. Ericsson Nikola Tesla (ETK), very successful on the Russian market.
Currently, 97-98 per cent of the vehicles for delivery use road transportation, making it possible for manufacturers to stock their inventories at various locations. However, when using the railways or the coastal route, companies have to transport their vehicles directly to a single destination, from where it is again to be sent to various locations.
You guys are about to shake up the world!
I am patiently waiting for the 4 door sedan.
@ ronal IQ
Last time we checked, it was MUCH better…thanks!
I think that the ideal car for women would of couse be elctric but also have the highest level of sun protection possible in a car. An ad in VOGUE once had an IMAGE of twins one lived in ny( no need for a car ) the other lived in the burbs the driving side of her face was aged. Protecct the environment - protect what is beautiful. I’m counting on tesla. Cars now can be healthy and fashionable. Something mother earth would surely agree with.
Very exciting to know that electric car will be available to the public in the near future. Appreciate your effort in providing what this country needs to become energy independent. Your car will help us reduce the 700B dollars outflow from this country for oil consumption. Good luck and hope to buy your car in the future.
I’ve been in love with the Tesla since I first saw it. Sure, I was disappointed that they cost $100K and that’s more money than I make in a year but I realize a new company has got to start somewhere. Frankly, I’m glad they started with a flashy sportscar designed by Lotus rather than something comparable to a Smart car. I’ve driven a Prius and a Smart car and if you are into any kind of performance you will hate them as they cannot get out of their own way. The fact that Tesla can build a car that does not rely on oil from the Middle East and still performs well is what has me excited for their future as well as mine. I plan to buy one as soon as they make a sporty compact version that still has pep for the working class. I’ve waited this long to see an electric car that outperforms all the gas powered cars I’ve ever owned (over 40 cars purchased so far) and I can wait a few more years for a less expensive version that I can be proud to own. I’m glad their are rich Silicon Valley types who want to bring this technology to the masses rather than sit around on their laurels drinking champagne. Makes me proud to live in America. Go Tesla! Hint: If you can make a sporty electric car that will compete head-to-head with the Mini Cooper your gonna crush all the competition.
When will European delivery start? And is it true that you are going to start producing the European models at the Lotus factory in Norfolk?
I am waiting for the day you bring these cars to the Barber Motorsports track in Birmingham AL …
Also I herd that there are several automobile manufacturers who are exploring the in-the-wheel electric Motor Concept…
Any word whether Tesla Motors is contemplating that as it’s next step in the evolution of the Electric Car????
Reply to Andy Chiodini :
I was thinking of something similar but instead of Charging stations have the Tesla car built with interchangable battery packs.
the Idea is that when you go to a charging station you pay $50.00 for a battery swap your depleated battery for a fully charged battery and the swap is done within a 10 minute time frame
Guys im a little worried. I just found a “Spy Photo” of the Whitestar and it wasnt the best looking thing ive ever seen. Its like a Dodge hatchback with an elise front its really weird. Here is the link.
www.autobloggreen.com/tag/tesla+whitestar
“the Idea is that when you go to a charging station you pay $50.00 for a battery swap your depleated battery for a fully charged battery and the swap is done within a 10 minute time frame”
Holy cow, Terry, that’s like paying for a tank of gas!
Congrats on making a great looking car.
Will you make a right hand drive one for Ireland…please?
This article demonstrates the dramatic effect that even a short term reduction in fuel consumption can have on the economics of our country. The effect of fuel prices rising so dramatically so quickly is that never again will motorists be so easily lured back into large gas guzzling vehicles. The shift to fuel efficient vehicles and alternatives like Tesla will reduce demand for gasoline at an ever increasing rate. The economic repercussions will be profound as the motoring public continues to shift away from the status quo oversize guzzlers.http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gas29-2008jul29,0,4637883.story
Scott,
Lay those worries aside. That was a test vechile that was being used by TM to test drive trains. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the actual look of the Whitestar. Just a good approximation of wheel base and weight for testing batteries and drive train. Maybe accelleration and range. No styling similarities.
Scott,
I am sorry wrong photo. My mistake. There was a photo of a Dodge Magnum that was being used as a test vechile floating around. The one you are referring to on Autoblog was a JOKE. Read the article carefully and it states so in the article. Guess they suckered anotherone in LOL
Terry,
Go and read about “Project Better Place” on the internet. Someone with a lot of funding has beat you to this idea.
Glad to hear production is rolling. I’ll be watching for reports of customers’ experiences with performance, including range, charging, etc. As you expand your network of stores, don’t overlook DC/Northern VA. There are plenty of folks around here who can afford your initial prices, while the rest of us wait for unit costs to drop. Good luck!
Tesla is going in the right direction with it’s plan to build the high-end Roadster first, followed by the Sedan & Compact. For those of you screaming about the 100k price tag on the Roadster you have missed the point entirely. While most of us won’t be able to afford a Roadster, trust me when I say I will be purchasing a Tesla Motors car somewhere in the future. The reason I will be purchasing a car from Tesla will be because of what they have designed, invested, and created with the Roadster.
Keep going guys your on the right track!
Mike T,
I am in the DC area too. It has been said that our area will be amoung the first set of stores
I guess those politicians are good for something anyway LOL
I have always wanted a corvette…..So eventually I talked my wife into it…..However I love the tesla motors concept. beautiful car. It needs a little more foot room at the pedals. Some basic info on normal wear and tear items and if or where you can get them. I have heat concerns in hot climates.Bottom line I love it….
Hi TESLA,
Keep it up…but please reduce the price make it available within $X,000 so that you will dominate the world very well!!..
U can get low cost material in INIDA or CHINA or even u can explore at third world countries from their establish the manfufacture as cheap base and sell it world wide under your own super brand and logo…
Ps…
Please beat FISKER KARMA motors…in cost price and productions
Wish u all the best…
Thanks and regards
prashanth venkataswamy
I’m just a regular person who can’t afford one of these lovely cars. But I am right with all involved: Go Tesla! Here is my question: McCain is talking about a big project to find an alternative fuel. So are others. What am I not getting? Isn’t this power plant exactly the solution people seem to be looking for? I realize 100 K is a bit steep, but is there any reason that a Detroit-style production could not bring the price at least closer to the range of the rest of us?
I am an engineer, my field of discipline is Electro-Acoustics I have three U.S. patents in the field. I know a lot about magnetic an electro-magnet fluid dynamics. Loudspeakers drivers are a very primitive type of motor or solenoid. For sound reproduction it is a variable low to high-speed solenoid, depending on the work you require the driver to perform. That being said, I believe your approach to using a single motor and transmission to drive an axle is not the best approach. It is very costly and has way to many moving parts. I would say that it is conventional thinking. And it adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the vehicle. Tesla himself would have opted to use a smaller and more powerful variable speed DC motor on each wheel. We already have the technology for independent suspension. We already have four-wheel disk brake systems for front wheel drive gas engine transaxle cars. So to move to say a 10 horsepower motor on each wheel would be cheap and the motor could replace the disk brakes and charge the batteries in the braking or slowing mode of the motors operation. You would have all wheel drive all the time 40 horse power at the wheels is approximately 71.5% of the total horse power at the wheels that an 18 wheeler uses to haul 50,000+ pounds of truck and cargo down the highways right this minute. With a little bit of tweaking of the motors in terms of the type of vehicle the consumer would drive for his or her needs, you could keep the horsepower for high speed sports cars or for raised torque for SUVs and Trucks, you get the point. It is all in the windings and the fluid dynamics as for the type and amount of work asked of the motor. The reason I said a 10 horse power motor on each wheel that in my opinion is the perfect power for both motivation and braking modes for most vehicles in the weight of 3600 pounds or less. Bigger the vehicle the more horsepower required for the motivation and braking cycles of the motor. Even four 15-horse power DC motors with braking and charging windings added weigh less than your single 100 horsepower motor and transmission and axle type drive train. I mean that is the conventional thing that you have to have a drive train. I hope the expression of what I have tried to outline here has crossed you mind as well. I figure you and your team of engineers are pretty smart. And if what I have conveyed in these lines is news to you, then work on it and you will beat the larger car companies to the market by years.
GO TESLA!! I am not far from NYC and went to see the prototype there recently. I was a little disappointed that they sent the grey car (I was hoping for something a little flashier.) But it sure was nice to actually touch something I have been watching progress for years. For those of you who haven’t been so fortunate I’ll just say it was AMAZING. I frequent Florida and agree with the person who said West Palm is a better choice than Miami. Even though I saw no comments from my general area, I can tell you directly there is much excitement building (and we don’t excite easily here in the northeast) for the NYC opening. Onward and upward!
James Westland:
“I am an engineer”
I doubt it.
“That being said, I believe your approach to using a single motor and transmission to drive an axle is not the best approach. It is very costly and has way to[sic] many moving parts.”
In what way would using 4 motors and 4 transmissions be cheaper or have fewer moving parts? Note that the “drivetrain 1.5″ which will be shipping soon and retrofitted to the already-shipped cars only has a single-speed transmission. Your wheel-motors aren’t going to run at wheel speed either, so you’ll need reduction there as well. Sure, you get to skip the differential, CVs, and shafts, but that’s nothing compared to the added complexity of four motors. Also, as has been mentioned here many, many times, the main drawback to wheel-motors is the additional unsprung weight, which has a seriously deleterious effect on handling.
“Tesla himself would have opted to use a smaller and more powerful variable speed DC motor on each wheel.”
First, it’s bad form to go around saying what dead geniuses “would have done.” Second, if you insist on doing so, at least make a sensible claim. You really think the inventor of polyphase AC and the AC motor would have used DC motors for this application? They are inferior in nearly every way, and he fought for AC in the “war of currents” for a good portion of his career. The motor in the Roadster is effectively a Nikola Tesla design.
“So to move to say a 10 horsepower motor on each wheel would be cheap and the motor could replace the disk brakes and charge the batteries in the braking or slowing mode of the motors[sic] operation.”
The Roadster already has regenerative braking. It also has friction brakes to slow down faster. Eliminating friction brakes entirely is a bad idea. Furthermore, you’re really suggesting that Tesla replace its 250hp (don’t know where you got 100hp) motor with 40hp? Somehow you don’t think that will negatively impact performance? Also, I don’t know where you got the idea that an 18-wheeler only has 56hp, but you’re wrong. Very wrong.
“I hope the expression of what I have tried to outline here has crossed you[sic] mind as well.”
Yes, indeed. It’s been popping up on this blog regularly since even before Martin explained why it’s a bad idea…nearly two years ago in a blog post here: www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=24#more-24
Anyway, as a final note, why do people think they should bring their harebrained ideas around as “free advice” for how Tesla “should” be building this car? It’s in production…even if you did have a good idea (and so far I haven’t seen but one or two) they are far past the point where they could realistically implement it.
James ,
That is all good but what that creates in a car is called Unsprung weight. That is weight that is not supported by the chassis. In a car that is a VERY bad thing for the handling charasteristics of the vehicle. Many are talking about this but no one has been able to make it work yet with the handling characteristics that are needed.
James,
The term Transmission here is a misnomer. The Roadster to my knowledge does not actually have a “transmission”. What it has is more like a direct drive. It is a one speed transmission. So some of the losses that you are talking about are not really there in the first place. So TM already figured that out !!!
I understand that unsprung weight is bad. However can anyone quantify how bad? If the roadster had been equipped with wheel motors would it be likely to drive like a loaded cement truck? Or would it be more like an average car (like the Aveo, Neon, Corolla and a host of other “entry level” vehicles that have existed in the last decade or two). Or would the anticipated effect be just enough to nudge the roadster out of the supercar category Tesla wants to keep it in?
I am wondering if wheel motors might be a lighter, cheaper and more efficient means of propelling lower end cars in the future. Would their affect on handling be so deleterious as to preclude their use? I have seen several companies testing/using them (including a recent article about a mini that was converted to use them).
Is the only way to really answer this to build two of each car you want to test (in some sort of simulator if not as physical prototypes)? One with a transmission (or direct drive as Kevin called it) and single motor. The other with wheel motors.
Depending on how big the effect is I guess you could even have a regular and sport version of a future car - one with each type of propulsion. Of course I am definitely not an engineer so such an idea might be incredibly impractical if the design changes are too much to accomodate in a single chasis. It would also fail if the difference between the two models/versions performance was too radically different.
As a girl originally from Michigan with quite a bit of motor oil in her veins I watched the ups and downs of the car industry and grew disenchanted with Detroit’s decreasing ingenuity replaced by their singular focus on the bottom line. Twenty years ago when I first learned about the exciting new electric technologies that were coming I thought the American auto industry would soon be reborn. and eagerly awaited Detroit’s contribution but nothing came. The EV fiasco was a low point and forced me to give up on the big automakers. Even though the pupa stage of electric technology was long Tesla broke through the chrysalis and the glorious butterfly is finally here! I couldn’t be more excited that the vehicle is as sexy as it is green and I hope to hear more about the performance from current owners. I envy anyone lucky enough to have one!
Thank you for making this Motor City girl’s idealistic dreams come true.
James Westlund, were you aware that Nikola Tesla invented the type of 3 phase AC induction motor used in the Roadster? The only reason Nikola Tesla didn’t use AC induction motors in cars is that highly efficient solid state 3 phase inverters and high performance batteries weren’t available at that time.
Sorry, but 1 motor and 1 inverter and 1 gearbox and 1 differential weighs less and costs much less than 4 motors and 4 motor controllers and 4 gearboxes. Differentials just don’t cost that much or weigh that much. There may be some technical advantages to 4 motor drives as to traction control, but they are countered by higher cost and weight.
Speed controllers for series wound DC motors cost a bit less than variable speed 3 phase inverter controls for induction motors, but it is very difficult and expensive to incorporate regenerative braking with series wound DC motors, they cannot replace standard brakes at low speeds, and their brushes require regular maintenance and replacement. Induction motors are brushless, more efficient than DC motors, require little or no maintenance, and regenerative braking is simple and easily controlled. The advantages of AC motors outweights the modest increase in cost over series wound DC motors. Brushless DC motors require a sophisticated controller and expensive permenent magnets, making them more expensive than an AC induction motor and inverter. Brushless DC motors are slightly more efficient at low speeds, but due to eddy current problems are less efficient than AC induction motors at higher speeds. Tesla Motors really did choose the best motor available for their cars.
The Tesla Roadster has a 250 hp motor, soon to be upgraded to 300 hp. Unlike an internal combustion engine, electric motors retain high efficiency over a wide speed and power output range. AC induction motors are highly efficient even when running at fraction of their maximum power, so the Tesla Roadster can call upon 250 hp for rapid acceleration then throttle back to just a few hp for cruising, with no loss in efficiency. So, you see, there really isn’t any reason to limit this electric sports car to an anemic 40 hp maximum with sluggish acceleration and a modest top speed. At the same speed, the Tesla Roadster is every bit as efficient as those pokey golfcart-like “Neighborhood Electric Vehicles” that are too slow for freeway use.
If you really think that those big semi trucks run on 40 hp engines, then you really don’t know beans about trucking.
One of the problems with putting a motor right on the wheel itself, in addition to the “unsprung weight”, is that it substantially increases the wheel torque. In other words, you need to put more power into turning the wheels in order to be able to maneuver the vehicle (aka make a sharp turn). For a sports car, this isn’t just worse but downright awful and something completely unacceptable in its design. Try to take a bicycle and do a sharp turn when traveling at a high speed if you need better understanding of how critical of an issue this is. In essence, the wheel plus motor acts as a giant gyroscope and only wants to keep spinning in the direction it is going. Larger motors only make this problem much worse, so you end up with a dud of a vehicle that can’t really do anything, or at least has some hard physical limits on how powerful you can make the motors.
Another huge problem with the “unsprung weight” is that the more weight that you put into each wheel, the stronger and larger you have to make the shock absorber energy. That in turn adds weight to the car, and in turn even the shocks themselves start to add their own “unsprung weight” into the equation. In short, even if it isn’t spinning with the wheel, adding even a little bit of “unsprung weight” to a car can significantly decrease its efficiency. That means a much shorter driving range and requires a stronger and heavier chassis just to hold everything together.
All of this was covered by Martin on the blog entry listed above, so it isn’t anything new. Even the “Whitestar” vehicle that is supposed to be the next major vehicle design by Tesla will still try to avoid the wheel motors for exactly the very same reasons.
If you are talking something like a golf cart or some other low-speed vehicle, this may not be nearly so big of an issue. But Tesla (at least for now) isn’t in the business of making golf carts or wheelchairs.
Susan, you make an inspiring metaphor. I’m not sure I’m quite ready to give up on the majors, but I can see why you would…and of course I share your enthusiasm for the new American car company that Tesla hopes to be.
Chris, there are a lot of variables involved in the question of “how much” handling performance you lose by going to wheel motors. In the simplest implementation (hub+stator, wheel+rotor) the effect would be pretty extreme, and would get worse as you made the motors bigger and more powerful. From-the-hip I’d guess that a Roadster with this setup would handle like a low-end sports car at best. The general rule I’ve found is that in a normal passenger car unsprung weight is around 13-15% of curb weight, less in cars where handling has been made a priority. So in a car like the Roadster I think we’re talking about 320lb, max. Now add 4 motors totaling 250hp, and you’re adding at least 50%, maybe more…and now you’re in the same neighborhood of unsprung weight as a 3500lb grocery-getter.
On the other hand, this isn’t the only wheel motor scheme in town. Some may debate whether they are true “wheel” motors, but I’ve seen designs for 4-way independent motors that are mounted inboard and have short shafts to drive the wheels. Obviously this would far reduce the impact on unsprung weight, and in fact may remove the penalty altogether. Presumably there are designs in between these extremes that would have varied effects.
However, this issue of unsprung weight is only one among many. I’m at least as concerned with the issues of complexity, weight, efficiency and durability. You add a lot of moving parts by going to 4 motors, and unlike gas engines smaller electric motors are less efficient than big ones. Then there’s the fact that you are bouncing and shaking your motors all the time, instead of having them safely in the chassis…this can’t be good for their longevity. But really the issue of cost trumps all others. Somehow lots of people come to the conclusion that it would be cheaper to use 4 motors, and that seems insane to me. Differentials and driveshafts are easy and cheap. Multiple motor controllers and the systems to actively manipulate them to *act* like a differential are neither easy nor cheap. Seems like an easy choice.
Of course then there is the problem of “where do you get these things?” Tesla has always maintained that they use technology that is here now. I do not know of a single wheel-motor setup that is available in a real sense right now. Lots of folks talk about it, but until I see someone actually doing it I couldn’t possibly recommend that Tesla ditch their existing, relatively orthodox, and working design.
Hi. The Aussie Government is offering Half a Billion $AU to green car manufacturers. Any chance you guys are gonna try and get a piece of that and manufacture over here?
Nice job with the car and production.
While you are focused to producing cars are you planning to sell “charging points” to roadside restaurants, gas-stations, motels etc. If so how would you do that? In addition to great electric cars we really need network of charging points similar to gas-stations there are now for prolonged driving. Electric long-haul buses, trucks etc. would need those no matter what happens to battery capacity. If those need those chargers then normal family cars could charge their batteries as well.
In the related note electric cars are really making breakthrough right now. I just stumbled upon this www.sahkoautot.fi/eng. In short that is an “open source” gasoline car to electric conversion project here in Finland. If you could sell your drivetrain/ESS/PEM to that project in reasonable price that project would really appreciate it (or so I would believe).
Has any one seen these guys. All Electric Saturn Sky for $50k. Videos of it driving look pretty cool. www.engadget.com/2008/08/04/amp-test-drives-all-electric-saturn-sky-on-video/
Everybody is concerned about “unsprung weight” of hub-motors, but no-one is concerned about their safety. If one motor fails then you would have three motors accelerating and one breaking or at least slowing badly. That’s bad. In slippery or twisty road *very* bad. One motor means single point of breaking and car just stops. Worst case is that it locks the rear wheels (what does Tesla “gearbox” do in that case?). But both rear wheels locking is better than just one.
Marty,
Yes I have seen that site before. They made the same claim like a year or two ago and we have not seen them actually produce anything yet. I think it is a great idea but I would wait for some production before ordering
(Suggestion) I would love to see a BIG (ok, small is good too) counter on the homepage that shows the number of cars delivered to customers. Even without new blog entries there would still be “news” because the counter shows a bigger number compared to the previous visit.
Good news! Looks like tesla is really ramping up for the whitestar. They have now added another 2 people to help including a designer from Mazda
Max,
We have been asking for that little thing for a LONG time now and are just blowing hot air because no one at TM seems listen to us. A counter would be a simple and effective tool to use but for some reason - unbenounced to us - TM seems to be against it. I even suggested maybe completed at the factory (not necessarily delivered) as an alternative. Perhaps someone can tell us the reasoning behind not using this excellent PR tool ? Why are you not proud of the great progress on delivering cars to the public? I would think this would be BIG news not something to hide.
We were supposed to have an announcement pertaining to Whitestar in the 2Q of 2008 and now it is half way through 3Q 0f 2008 and still no announcement
When is that coming ?!?!? Hopefully SOON 
I might be looking in the wrong places and therefore didn’t see a response to the last question on July 12,2008, but I , too, would like to k now about a blog by the current owners. Any word on how much they love them, and how the charging of the batteries is going?
Francine
Wow! Your vehicles are amazing! I hope we are able to stock them in our little shop in suburban Monroe Washington!
Thanks!
Linda:)
When do you plan to introduce your $50,000 sports sedan?
The only way we are going to see an affordable electric car on the road is when Goliath and the Mac Daddy Petroleum halibuts of the world can figure out a way to charge us for pluggin in the darn thing.
This string says it all www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
CDW
Does Tesla plan to build full size sedans?
Fantastic news, I live in South Africa and cannot help but add the ‘TESLA’ name to most blogs and forums, I believe that people need to know about the phenomenal advance ‘TESLA’ has made to improve both the cost to the people and the environment…I must add that it’s great to see America lead a clean tetechnology.
Keep up the good work, when i can afford one i will be sure to buy a ‘TESLA’
Congratulations on each and every one of your milestone successes. I pray that you continue to lead the auto world industry in moving away from gasoline powered autos. Cant wait for your expansion to the east coast. You and your entire team should be very proud.
Hallo,
I Live in Europe near Brussels. First of all, an electic equivalent of an Elise, as I should call it, is something which could be sold out here in the near future -the climate of environmental consciousness is actually in place in Europe . 30 years ago the university of Brussels already experimented with electrical cars. There was also a petroleum crisis in 73 and as a result an environmental consciousness, but it diminished again in the late seventies and the eighties. The difference between then and now is that now everywhere in Europe there is a legislation in place that supports environmental initiatives.
This legislation recently incorperated several environmental initiatives eg. a certain percentage of the energy production should be “geen energy”, there are benefits foreseen for the EU members for cars with low CO2 emissions , benefits for green energy from windmills, solar panels … . Now, in my opinion , there are three basic conditions to be fulfilled first. 1. the cost of the car should be only slightly above that of the conventional elise .To obtain this, the basic cost should be +/- the same as in the US taking into account the dollar/EURO ratio and not multiplied by 1.5 as it is now. 2. the the memer states of the EU should be convinced to provide an important price benefit for the buyer of an electric car - this is actually already the case for some cars with low CO2 emissions - which should bring the price for the buyer further down to around 50000 Euro . 3: uploading the cars energy should be capable at home but also in pertol stations where the cost should be published next to the cost for a liter petrol or gasoil so that people have the feeling time after time that what they bought is really sheeper then the rest . As an exemple we have seen exactly the same shift from petrol to gasoil the last 15 years in Europe. At the start, apart from trucks and cabs, nobody bought a car on gasoil since it was more expensive, there were less performances and there was not a big difference in cost in petrol and gasoil. Now there is a difference of 20 tot 30 % in cost in some countries and as a result most of the cars actually sold are on gasoil. At the same time the performance increased ( see eg le Mans, won by a gasoil drinven Audi ) so actually there is no nead to go back to petrol.
I hope these reflexions will help you to introduce this car succesfully on the European market and I’m looking forward to seeing an electric Tesla winning le Mans.
FDB
To the President & CEO,
I must mention that the company vision is impeccable and totally stands out from all the other manufactures. I know that most people are tired of paying high gasoline prices since it is only a greed, money and power issue to those companies who are working together, which has caused our economy to lag as it has in the past several years. This is not the time to be greedy!
I would like to mention that the vision is what is important, which the masses of people will buy your vehicle products and will be talking about it to others to help your referral sales in the future. As a business who depends on driving, we at our company know the value of vehicles worth based on fuel and mechanical failures, which is quite costly. Our goal is to introduce to other companies and clients that the value of a vehicle can be inexpensive for day to day personal or business use.
Everyone understands that the initial technology is expensive and that your future plans to have other vehicles developed for a smaller amount of money like $60K or $30K would be more advantageous to the mass consumers.
Thank you for developing the best electric vehicle on the market.
Greg
President & CEO
PS: Keep looking forward and engineer the vehicle to get even more out of it!
KD,
YES !! There are palns for a sedan. As a matter of fact, they were due to give us an update on that very product in the 2Q of 2008. We have not received that info yet so obviously we are expecting it soon since we are now in the middle of the 3Q. It has been almost a month since the last update to this site. Perhaps TM would be good enough to share all their progress they have made in the last month with us
Ze’ev, I am very pleased to see the positive progress with the Production of the Tesla car. Additionally, I visited the LA Tesla Store, very well done!!! I am looking ahead to test drive soon. Thanks for the updates. Additionally, if you look back to another World Class Company, Clifford Electronics, I was one of the stellar Technical Instructors of the late 80’s, something I will forever be thankful for, the amazing experience and opportunity! Wishing you and the entire Tesla team all the best. Chris E.
The flagship store in Santa Monica does impress, however, storefront visibility of the car is somewhat low. Specifically, as one exits the 405 or drives Santa Monica Blvd, the car cannot be well seen until passing directly in front . Had the windows extended further into the corner, this would have allowed much better exposure. Quite unfortunate this is not the case.
Here is some competition to Tesla:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfLTvpK_Wn8
(not really, but d*mn good car anyway….)
I just read (this might be old news to others) from autobloggreen that Franz von Holzhausen from Mazda has joined Tesla ass design director. I think this is good news. I really like Mazda designs (especially RX8 and MAZDASPEED3), and Franz has designed some awesome-looking consepts. I hope Whitestar will be something like those (but better obviously).
I am following the progress, thanks to your email updates. Honestly, for me the price is to high. I believe electric car costs will come down and someone will build an affordable 4 passenger model. It’s great to serve the elite but there are many of us that would strongly consider taking the chance on a car in the 30K (US) range. There are major automakers working on electric models but we ( the public ) still have nothing, from any manufacturer, to purchase that makes practicle sense. I find your marketing captivating and your product interesting. My daily commute to work is 19.6 miles round trip, top speed of 35 mph, perfect for an affordable alternative means of transportation. I occasionally need to carry items and need some storage. A vehicle similar to the Smart Car for 2 would be OK ( I would buy one ) but a car with a similar cofiguration of the Honda Fit, would be perfect.
Just to inform that that $30K EV is possible and not even very hard. There is “open source project” here in Finland to convert cars to EV:s and it looks that we can get price to something like 25-30kEUR. Initial prototype car will be sedan (Toyota Corolla) and have about 150km range (about 100 miles) double with additional battery pack and performance equal or better to gasoline Toyota (at least acceleration, top speed will be less). If we can get to that price range, then real car manufacturer should not have any problems to make that same.
www.sahkoautot.fi/eng
In addition we have plans to build charging points all around Finland. To our surprise one gas station chain has been interest to get those. Maybe thing is that that same chain has restaurant in every station. So income would be guaranteed
.
Tesla should hurry up with cheaper models. I KNOW that there are a lot of similar projects going on everywhere in the world. Sooner or later some of the Big Ones realize that they don’t actually need to design entire car, just make EV versions of their best selling models and people will buy them. Especially if they will perform better and cost about same (or less, there is lot less parts in EV than in combustion engine) as gasoline version to build. Then it is just matter of (small) time to get network of charging stations and bye bye gas guzzlers.
I predict that this change will take less than 10 years. With new battery techs multiplying range coming in next few years , solar energy that everybody can afford and just the fact that EV performs better than gasoline guzzlers it is inevitable. Big Oil cannot stop the progress anymore, it can only slow it down.
Yipee!!!!
Hooray!!!!!!
I can’t wait.
You have a great idea, total electric. However, Henry Ford had a better idea, the Model T. The Model T seats 4, has a trunk, easily repaired (which you have conquered with electric), but most importantly it was built for the masses. Add two seats, add a trunk, go with a smaller 50 HP engine, 100 mile range, offer it for under $20k, and sale 100 million copies. Call it the Tesla CM (City Model) Oh! I’m in the fruit business and we need pick-up trucks, flatbeds, etc.. A Tesla T150 pick up would be great! Good luck! Huey Reed
The board should totally get in contact with aircraft manufacturers… My head would explode (in a good way) If I heard there was an all electric aircraft prototype to be made by Tesla Motors. I’m only a 17 yr old kid from Western Australia, I therefore lack the relevant degrees in physics, aeronautics, and engineering; so, can anyone explain to me why this isn’t possible when the Roadstar’s engine is 115lb with 248 max hp, while a continental O-200 engine (powers a range of light Cessna aircraft) has a dry weight of 170lb and around 100hp! Sure, take the fuel/battery weights into account and the Tesla totals at most 1115lb (or roughly 561 kg). Apply this to the Cessna 152; the max takeoff payload including passenger in roughly 570lb. Take off fuel tanks, free up say 500lb, fit in the Tesla pack; with the old powersource the payload would be able to take off (even if its barely). With the Tesla pack retro fitted, hopefully the max take-off weight will have increased and: TA DA! There (potentially) you have it. A reliable, traditional, reasonably priced small electric aircraft.
This could be done within a relatively short period of time. This is also, ignoring the new ultralight glider-style designs that aircraft companies are making for fuel-efficiency! Get someone to bring this up at a board meeting and then (pretty please) email me! I would like to hear exactly why this can’t be done (hell, if lacking staff, donate an engine and powerpack to the ‘mythbusters’, they’ll come up with something good… before they blow it up for fun)… or I would love to hear a trial date, and a link to the you-tube footage!
Cheers- keep up the visionary design philosophy
Has there been any response from Tesla Motors on the establishment of Th!nk North America bringing their affordable electric car to the US?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-i8-9FgLYA&feature=related
I think it was to be priced around $25,000. If successful it could totally take the middle class market in a couple years.
i would hope that your company can give away a car trough the t.v. network planet green so that the big three car makers can see that this is what we want, and while i may not be able to afford one at least i one have a chance to win one
Hi, I’m from Malaysia and I must say I have to take my hat off to you guys. You guys are definately doing a nice job in helping the world going green and I respect you for that.
I would love to see you guys sell your product to more countries, for instance, my country. Although we enjoy the cheapest fuel in the world since we are a net producer, but thanks to our low income per capita, we still feel massive burden upon our shoulders.
I have two suggestions:
1) It would be good if you guys can consider giving conversion kits/services to other cars. It’s just the change of engine, throw away the fuel tank and tail pipes so far I’ve seen. That can save you lotsa time, effort and cost.
2) Ever heard of dynamo? What if you guys can develop the wheels that can generate electricity so as they turn when you speed up the car, the wheel itself generates electricity by turning its base, and charging up the magnetic coils, so they in fact can feed back some power to the batteries, in order to be more effiecient? I think Popular Science once did talked about a perfect Hybrid car that uses this idea.
Just my two cents’ worth, but remember to give me credit should you guys really take it.
P.S Your car makes me drool, and my dad too…. he’s been yapping about the fuel price hike in my country recently 24/7….
From the knowledge that I have read about this car company, I can only see a bright future. The only information I need to know if it’s publicly traded . If it is please provide the symbol so I can invest. If it is not public, I would like to be the first to know when it does go public.
Thank you and good luck.
Sean Murphy
Isaac Hiew:
Your suggestion about dynamo doesn’t work. These kind of machinery are called perpetual motion machines (you use electricity to create movement to create electricity). Problem with these is that there are always losses in generating power, so lets say your dynamo has 95% motion to power generation ratio. That means that your dynamo slows car down at 100% and generates electricity at 95% which means 5% net loss in energy. etc.
What you saw in “Popular Science” was probably hub-motors or something like that and energy generation while car is slowing down, not accelerating. That Roadster does already. Engine breaking is turned into electricity. That is why Roadsters range is so much greater in city than it is in freeway even that you need to accelerate-deaccelerate all of time.
You could add some “energy capturing devices” to suspension or something like that but gain from those are probably not worth added complexity or weight. Only way to generate more energy than losing is by using some method that catches energy from outside of car (and car movement causing wind is not one of them). Sun radiation would be one, other could be some powerlines under pavement and use of induction. Sun radiation is weak source and those powerlines we don’t have.
Sorry about bad english, I just woke up and my brain isn’t quite awake yet.
It is really irritating that every electric car company targets California. If a company wants to get a foothold over another they should really think about targeting other areas. Even the THINK cars are thinking of targeting southern California and Aptera is in CA as well.
I’ve also read through each comment about the price and I too think these electric cars are going to be only catered to the upper class. Even with the MSRP estimate of say $30,000 for the 5 passenger vehicle, every dealer will just jack up the prices in similar fashion Ford did with the Mustang GT 500. And then just push the price beyond the availability of the average American. The reason it will happen is because there will be a demand. I’d too like to give big oil companies the ‘ol one finger salute but if I’m going to have to pay $50,000 for a car, I think I’ll be shopping elsewhere. I would have liked to purchase the roadster but a price tag over $100K was not in my budget. Plus, just think of the credit companies that will take advantage of the situation. They’ll probably have astronomical interest rates for anything over 2 years. Why? Because they can and will make money off the super rich once again.
So in conclusion, it will be many years before these electric vehicles cater to the middle and lower class people. Because of this, we’ll probably see $7 - $10 per gallon in the next few years.
I applaud the concept and design which is implemented with the Tesla Motor Car. I would wish it was possible that
the “Post Graduate Class Physics Project of the Spring of 1999, University of California at Berkley” could be used
by an electric car manufacturer. But, since, the United States Oil Companies paid 180 Million in a one time distribution
and a guarantee of 25 Million in Cash Grants for a 10 year period for the Patent, Intelectual Property, and Design Rights,
for the Briefcase Electricity Accellorater. The initial design and theory are or were a Doctorate with the University of Lenongrad, Lenongrad, RU by me, it was downgraded to masters in 1997 after US Sec of State C. Powell set about to bring all my work to naught globally, the US acquired the technology through “Investigation 1985 by Dr. Hillman” which was not archived in
the US DOD R&D Files until 1998.
Looks like Tesla might build the Model S in San Jose!
www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2008/08/04/daily91.html?surround=lfn
Hopefully theyll get this done and show us a prototype!
Hi Greg,
I wanted to take a momment to respond to your comments and I am not a Tesla employee.
First, TM is not just targeting CA. They have over 1200 orders for the Roadster and they are from people all over the US and in Europe. TM announced earier this year that they would be delivering in the EU by May 2009. Just because their first two retail stores are in CA, it doesn’t mean CA is their only focus. Also, there is plenty of information on this site (although not in this blog) about their intentions to open retail locations across the country and in Europe.
Second, TM has said from the very beginning and it is well documented, that the roadster is not going to change the automotive industry all on its own. You are correct that it is a high end car. If you wouldn’t consider other super cars, this car is not for you. It was created to show that electric cars don’t have to be “punishment” cars. Most other companies that have tried to start out by making a car hat would appeal and could be afforded by everyone, ended up with watered down, under preformers that nobody would buy. Tesla plans to use all that they have learned (and paid for in blood) to develop more car models within the mainstream need. They have always stated this was their goal.
One more point: TM’s business model does not inlcude car dealers. They own the stores from which you can purchase their products. That means that dealers will not be involved in price jacking (the used car market withstanding).
Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither the next generation’s transportation options.
Tim
Hi,
Big congratulations on an exciting new car. I’m sure there have been many challenges to overcome and more to follow.
Is it possible to get a look round the showroom…….I’ll be over next week from Ireland and would love to take some pics.
Mike
Wow, thats great news. Tesla’s progression over the last few years has been very exciting and it is great to see them taking the next big step towards being a major player in the auto industry. As a recent college graduate of Business Administration I would love to be working with the great people at Tesla to see this company take hold of the current market and point them in the right direction. Will you be considering opening a facility in the Washington, D.C. area? I would love to be a part of that team in the near future, and know there is great potential for sales.
I am glad to see Tesla Motors coming out with this machine. It may not be everyones answer to our energy problem, but it is a BIG step in the right direction. Maybe after a few years in production a cheaper model will become available and perhaps that will drive the battery industry to make new advances in technology. We could all benefit from that, even in unrelated areas. I am for instance, interested in private aircraft and the impact of rising cost of fuel on flying. If battery technology improves, we may see electric powered small aircraft in production in a few years. Actually this whole thing is a blessing, because reducing our carbon fueled dependency will inspire us to be more inovative and as a bonus it will improve our air and water by reducing emissions. / Thank you Tesla, for your efforts and I hope you are as much a success as was Henry Ford.
In Response to “Tim M wrote on August 12th, 2008 at 12:59 pm ”
Thanks Tim for the response. Yeah I should have added that at least TM did allow for purchase outside of CA. If TM does plan to sell directly from the manufacturer then an issue of financing for vehicles may be an issue. I came really close to placing an order for the roadster but with a family of 2+ my wife talked me out of it being that the practicality of it wasn’t for us. I’m just trying to stress to TM’s management that they should look forward and find a way to conquer the EV marketplace through availability and incentives and not price vehicles in a manner that will stray others away to competitors. I believe whoever takes the early commanding lead in the industry will have the greatest success. Chevrolet is coming out with the Volt that I wouldn’t put it past them if it comes out in very high manufacturing numbers to attempt to take over the market. It’s a race to whoever comes out first. Let’s see if Tesla can come out first or at least fighting.
Oh, one other thing to any of Tesla’s management who may be reading these comments, you might want to think about pushing for charging stations throughout the US. Being seen as a forefront advocate for preparation toward oil independence can also generate good public publicity.
I know the day I purchase an EV I’ll be looking for establishments that offer the service. Like if say some rest area or eating establishment provides a free charging station for EV owners, I’ll most likely pick them over another even if the cost was higher. Thinking more along the lines of overnight stays at a hotel. There is a lot of $$ that could be made with simple advertising.
In reading the newsletter, it take 3.5 hours to recharge the vehicle. Will future vehicles be able to recharge themselves while in motion? That way the range would be extended and they would be more ‘enviromentally friendly’.
When can we see a TESLA product at a price point that 98% of American families can afford?
Your product is great news for the modern world! I am looking foward the day when the production line is so long thar I can afford one! You ALL should be proud of what you have accomplished. I know that more “miracles” will be forthcoming - and I intend to drive one of your miracles on Whidbey Island. Thank you.
When are you marketing in Honolulu? We’re ready!
Thanks!
I just read that the Model S will be a plug-in hybrid. Is that true? Why not all electric?
you should study the new capactors being developed they can be used inplace of the battery’s and charge much faster and hold up much longer! Bill…………….
Thank you for naming your company after trully exceptional man. To all TM enthusiasts I would recommend reading: “The Man Who Invented Twentieth Century” by Robert Lomas. Kind regards.
Really exiciting to read about a car that is 100% battery powered with great looks. Is Tesla planning to launch in Australia anytime in the near future?
Was I mistaken or is there a black Tesla running around the UK at the moment? I was coming out of Cambridge this morning (Saturday 13th Sept) at about 11.10 am UK time, and caught a glimpse of a car going in the opposite direction, into Cambridge on Trumpington Road from junction 11 of the M11 motorway. It certainly looked a lot like a Tesla, but I suppose it could possibly have been a modified Elise. It would be nice to know for sure, if somebody at Tesla would be so kind as to confirm or deny it.
Has GM offered you money for the Tesla technology; because it sounds like your sports car will literally run circles around there Volt. As soon as you make a small pick up, I want one! Good luck in the future.
Why the huge gap between the proposed Chevy Volt (40 miles per charge) and the Tesla at 240?
Mark
Dear Ze’ev,
I’m told two Tesla roadsters have been delivered to customers in New York. Are these the two vehicles this blog announces will be on display at an event in Stamford, Connecticut on November 20th?
ctgreenscene.typepad.com/ct_green_scene/2008/10/eco-fashion-eco.html
Its been awhile since this update [July 2008] and I am wondering how things are going?
And like Mark , above, asked, why is the Volt such a dolt at only 40 miles per charge? Batteries??