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For a few hours now, I have been sitting in a darkened photography studio, staring at a beautifully lit Model S. I am beginning to realize why it sucks to be a perfectionist.
Even after hours and hours poring over and deliberating every millimeter of surface and detail leading to this prototype glowing in front of me, I realize the job is far from done. But the good news for a designer who is never satisfied is that, even after accomplishing so much in such a short time, it’s not quite time to lift the brush.
The world is now very familiar with the Model S show car, which we launched on March 26. But the development process continues as we hone the Model S into a world-class production car – and the best EV on the market.
I left Mazda last summer to work at Tesla, attracted to an idea that initially struck me as impossibly ambitious — and, equally, downright genius. The goal: A mid-sized sedan that seats 7 people and their luggage in a package that is both functional and good looking – actually, better looking than anything on the market. Some SUVs can’t even do that. Especially the good looking part. 
With such lofty expectations, we needed to start with a clean sheet — and that’s what we did. In a small, white tent carved out of a corner in the back of a rocket factory in Hawthorne, California – where SpaceX employees seem to accomplish the impossibly ambitious on a daily basis — we got to work. We immediately began building the design team, which eventually grew to 11 people. We worked grueling hours, fueled by countless take-out dinners, lunches and breakfasts, not to mention ample caffeine and snacks in the SpaceX cafeteria.
If that weren’t challenge enough, last fall we simultaneously developed the Roadster Sport, the first variant of Tesla’s world-class powertrain. Tesla will begin delivering the Roadster Sport to customers starting in late June.
We worked nearly up to the moment that the car was revealed to the public. That’s a total of eight months – a timeline that would seem preposterous by the standards of the traditional automotive industry.
But one of our biggest assets – aside from our (possibly unhealthy) work ethic – is the simplicity of an all-electric powertrain. Tesla’s industry-leading electric powertrain fundamentally redefined the basic architecture for a sedan, enabling the Model S to become an insanely functional car. We also had the confidence that comes from building a car around a proven powertrain that has already racked up hundreds of thousands of miles in simulated and real-world testing.
Model S
Still, one of our biggest challenges was coming up with an overarching design language for a car unlike anything else on the road. The main design theme the Model S communicates is efficiency. “Uncompromised” is the key word I use to describe Model S: environmentally friendly, extremely functional and attractive. It’s a vehicle you are proud to own regardless of what attribute is most important to you, and one where you don’t sacrifice one or more of those attributes for the sake of any other.
I set out to develop an efficient, timelessly modern yet classic and international form language, as well as a face for the Tesla brand. As a new brand in a rapidly changing world of brand-savvy consumers, establishing a secure identity is critical. Model S will be the volume base from which we will build the Tesla brand.
Tesla’s design is gender-neutral, advanced and unique — but not strange, futuristic or overly avant-garde. It’s ready-to-wear, not runway haute couture. This is a pretty good sized car, yet it’s agile and looks a bit smaller than a car with such a roomy cabin and cavernous storage capacity. It’s got a lightweight, lean impression, which visually communicates efficiency, especially considering the “range anxiety” of skeptics unfamiliar with Tesla and EVs.
Since Tesla is already a sporty brand, a fastback silhouette delivers a more functional interior volume. The interior volume essentially over delivers on the exterior promise. The highlight of the cabin’s functionality is the first ever in-car touch sensitive 17-inch infotainment screen in the middle of the instrument panel, which we are still developing and will reflect the best technology available in late 2011, when the cars start rolling off the assembly line.
Recycled PET carpeting and vegetable tanned leather give a tactile sense to the environmental message. In the front, where an internal combustion engine normally sits, our floor-mounted powertrain means the Model S can have a a bonus storage area instead of an engine. And we continue to develop more and more clever functionality into the fresh interior.
We have so far taken more than 850 reservations for the Model S — more than our optimistic internal projections and a major validation that we are on the right path, especially considering this economy.
In the weeks after the launch, we have taken the Model S show car to receptions in Washington and Silicon Valley – and on April 29 we will be in on the Late Show with David Letterman and have a party in New York City. At each of these venues, we discuss and promote the Model S. But more importantly we listen to ideas and criticism, confident that the ongoing dialog with customers, prospective customers, media, politicians and others will lead to a better production car.
Thanks for the input and the encouragement. Many of us seem to agree: Owning an environmentally efficient vehicle shouldn’t require sacrificing anything.
But enough discussion of the past eight months. Now it’s time for me to get back to work!
That’s a nice car! Looks like the Focus ST + Peugeot 307, but a bit nicer. I like it! Make more! Make more >:D
Beautiful car! How do you fit 7 in there?
I know Fisker is a persona non grata at Tesla, but what is your professional opinion of him and the Karma?
Greetings;
I’ve been curious, where do the child seats go? In the hatch-back section?
Franz the fact that you are openly willing to receive outside input is great and the Model S is beautiful. You have to be stoked that your teams creation will be shown to much of America tonight on Letterman. That has to be a nice reward for all the hard work. I am no expert but I have a simple idea for the model S interior. I have for a few years done pilot testing of software designed to utilize laptop touch screens. There is a big difference in the way people interface with something the size of an ipod and a 17 inch screen. I really like the idea of eleminating dozens of buttons from the dash board of the Model S and the touch screen is cool and customizable and just a great step forward. I do beleive that having some kind of human interface device would nicely complement this idea. During the pilot testing I described we discovered that a high percentage of people would open up the laptop within the first hour and start using a combination of the touch screen and other interface devices such as a mouse or keyboard. It would be nice to have a laptop touch pad or an ipod type wheel near where someones right hand rests to control the screen, or a rollerball on the back of the steering wheel. Also the the G3 connectivity add ports for plugging in a keyboard or video game controller.
I also noticed that the default GUI mimics what you might see in a traditional car. That thinking is really limiting. Traditional cars have to show dozens of buttons at the same time, this concept dosen’t. The customization part will be really neat and I really hope that all the GUI stuff is open source, but most consumers will only use the standard default. Imagine if Ipods used the interface of walkman. Yes they could still play music but it wouldn’t be nearly as funtional. Your team has probably already considered all of these things but if not it might be something to think about.
“we listen to ideas and criticism, confident that the ongoing dialog with customers, prospective customers, media, politicians and others will lead to a better production car.”
Please keep Houston in mind…I will be first in line the day your dealership opens here.
Thanks! …and… Keep up the awesome work!!!
You guys have done magnificently with a tough problem, impossible design constraints, high goals, and a backdrop of a difficult economic environment. Congratulations.
May I also say humbly as a blogger that posts in which you congratulate yourself aren’t nearly as interesting as posts in which you describe tough problems and failures, and how you overcame them. Do that, and then let readers tell you how great you are
Cheers…
Absolutely stunning detail, and surpasses anything I imagined–an extremely happy Roadster (# 278) owner and a future Model S owner. Thank-you for your dedication and perfectionism!
Franz,
Congrats, the car is absolutely beautiful!
I saw Elon Musk on David Letterman tonight.
At the end of the segment Mr. Musk tried TWICE to make “a very important point” about the car.
Letterman apparently was not listening, and completely ignored him.
He was apparently more interested in joking around with than hearing what his guest had to say.
Can you tell me what important point that Elon was attempting to convey to viewers about the Model S?
Car is nice, very nice, but since you now have storage area in both front *and* rear makes me think that design of that car is like early cars: they had horse carriage as a model, so they just made one without horses.
I bet you could do better, more efficient design, and still keep all necessary functionality modern car has, if you let yourself free from past designs. You need front and back crumble-zones and safety aspects from modern car, otherwise your hands are quite free.
Marketwise that normal car-look might be better, though. I don’t think general population is ready for more radical designs.
How about making tiny two-seater as a companion for that? Persu Mobility has nice consept www.flytheroad.com/.
It doesn’t need to be super fast or has extreme range, just to be enough to get to the shop and back and be fun. If not by yourself, you could try to sell your drivetrain to them.
Beautiful piece of work. But I would expect nothing less of Tesla.
I do have a couple of suggestions. Please consider having a hitch in the back, and the ability to plug in high-voltage line to power the car. That would allow for a range-extending trailer to be hooked to the car. That would allow for other companies to build new parts for the car. You NEED buy-in from other companies. In addition, have that hitch electrical hookup be a bit different. Allow it to also have a data connection (perhaps ethernet or just CAN). That way, when car is hooked up to trailer and plugged in, some feedback can be used. For example, the car can be speed limited on going in reverse. Ideally, the car/hitch angle can be figured and that can be used to stop foolishness.
I know and love the pure batteries. But the simple fact is, that a small trailer would allow for those once a year type trips. Somebody who commits regularly 100-150 miles a day will likely pick up your 300 mile range car. OTH, as a 2′nd car for the housewife, it does not make sense to do that. BUT, a once in a bluemoon trip would be great with the trailer.
Another issue with current cars is that they require expensive add-ons for stereos, GPS, etc. Your touch screen system should allow for a common bus (pci-e, even ethernet) and then allow others to develop new toys for the car. I would hope that your radio key would also adjust the monitor and seats. I know that I prefer having things different than others do. If I can program it, and my key is accepted by a different key (given permission by the owner), then my display specs should override when I am in drivers seat.
Again, nice work.
Franz- Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. Good Job on the design the appearance is striking, the functionality entices, and your company’s passion inspires. I have the greatest respect for how you are negotiating the difficulties associated with the cost of batteries. Thank you for taking the strengths of electric vehicles and building functional vehicles that compete with their class. You make electric cars attractive, and that has been a long time coming.
Looking forward to seeing the Model S on the streets! Just disappointed that Letterman did that stupid gag and didn’t let Elon make his point about the car on the show last. Other than that I thought it was great for Telsa Motors to get the exposure it rightfully deserves.
Again you put the threshold very very high, setting yourselves an almost impossible task. Almost. Again, lots of succes and looking forward to more very interesting updates.
I have a question about the glass roof. What happens on sunny days when you park outside and get into the car? Can you put something up to block the light or what do you do to keep from sweating and getting sunburned sitting in the back seat? A LCD electronic tint would be very nice.
Well, I assume that this very successful design, the capacity, and price elasticity effect should guarantee that demand for Model S will outstrip the Roadster very quickly. Good luck, and get the fab up and running ASAP!
Just some arithmetic for other commenters: Roadster production is projected to go to about 2,000/yr as I recall, which will be worth about $250,000,000 gross revenue. 20,000/yr Model Ses would generate over$1,000,000,000.
# W. Murphy wrote on April 29th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
## Can you tell me what important point that Elon was attempting to convey to viewers about the Model S?
Answer here:
www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/3489129065/
==> ““I was trying to say that the Model S is really only about as expensive as a Ford Taurus when you figure in the gasoline cost savings!”
Great looking car! In the article you state that the touch screen will incorporate the latest tech available in 2011. What functions would the touch screen perform? I can see this replacing all of the traditional controls within the car not just the typical radio / climate / navagation system. Have you thought of partnering with Apple. They seem to have the upperhand on latest technology innovations. I can see this as a system that has contiuous internet access and has the capability / functions or their iphone and ipod. Software could be developed and downloaded by the owner to customize the system with new unique applications. Apple has a huge market share with their iphone and individuals that create these iphone apps. A small touch screen on the armrest near where the hand could provide an easy link to the main the dash screen for accessing the menu applications similar to the iphone or is the owners iphone. Seemless conectivity to your work computer / e-mail etc could easily be accomplished in real time. Just thinking outside of the box!
Rob, I sent in a comment about that, and I haven’t heard anything in weeks. I agree.
The all-glass roof is awesome about 5% of the time - driving down the streets of Manhattan or down a tree-lined country lane. The rest of the time, it’s a liability from sunburn and excessive heat, as well as safety if the glass shatters during an impact. I have the means, but I’m not going to put down my reservation unless Tesla offers a solid roof version.
I’m also concerned how this RWD with low-profile high-performance tires will perform throughout the four seasons we have here in DC.
I don’t mean to knock Tesla or the Model S. It’s a great technical, aesthetic and financial feat, to be sure. The rims are awesome! However, I just want to remind Tesla, as a potential customer, that not everyone lives in southern Cal.
Telsa has given me hope that EVs will finally become mainstream in the US, since Detroit deliberately crushed their innovative lead in EVs and now are bankrupt. The Big 3 are paying for their lack of vision.
I am amazed at the beautiful design you did in just a year. I hope you will quickly start on designing a complete family of cars including a two door coupe slightly smaller like a bmw 3 or Audi A5. Also, I would love to see a utilitarian five door hatch that is slightly taller and longer than a Golf. Finally, create a city or commuter car the size of a fiat 500, polo, or mini. I wish Tesla was getting all the effort and money that Chrysler and GM are receiving.
I hope next time you announce an upcoming model that you will give more conceptual sketch as you go along. Although, not seeing any teasers of the Model S made for a great surprise!
Saw the interview with Elon on the David Letterman show. I loved the crowd reaction to the unveiling of the Model S. David Letterman also seemed shocked by the cars beauty.
Saw the demo car in New York at the Plaza on Friday. Very impressive in the flesh. A beautiful car. The doormen at the Plaza, who see dozens of high-end cars every day, were blown away. “It looks like it ought to cost $100,000,” one told me.
As a Mazda CX-7 owner (I like the family design connection), I was looking at the S out of curiosity, with no intent to buy a four-door sedan-type car. I have to be able to throw my mountain-bike, golf clubs, dog, etc. in the back. To my shock and awe, I realized that the S had a hatch-back (what looks like a wide one) and fold-down rear seats. Then the Tesla rep tells me that one of the design criteria for the car was that a bicycle fit in the back without removing the front wheel. Bingo! I just put down a deposit.
I am currently building a small hydroelectric generator on the creek that runs through my seven-acre property. The ultimate fantasy, of course, is to plug the Tesla in to my hydro system, and literally run my car off the power of my creek.
You guys say you’re open to suggestions, so here are a couple:
1. The wheels on the car I saw are just too big. There’s a fine line between cool/classy and over-the-top halibutmobile bling. I think the current wheels just cross into halibutmobile territory. At least offer the option of slightly smaller wheels.
2. See if you can increase the ride height a bit without ruining the sleekness. One of the reasons I consider my CX-7 to be the perfect car (Other than the crappy mileage and IC engine) is the ease of getting in and out (I’m an old, creaky guy) and the slightly elevated driving position. A higher ride height would help in snow as well. Any chance of a true Tesla crossover-type car in the future, a la Hyundai Nuvis sans IC engine? Or, better yet, an all-electric CX-7!
Type S looks more “slippery” than Roadster. I bet it has much better Cd, so even that A is worse it should get pretty much same CdA -value if not better. Roadster can go 240 miles and this is promised 300 with 85kWh battery pack which is roughly 36% bigger than Roadster battery pack. Has anybody actually tested that range? With low load I believe you could get much more than 300 miles. 240 + 36% is 326 miles. What is the real-life test results for that?
The Model S not only interests me from a ecological point of view, but also from an IT point of view. I really admire how Tesla invests in crucial innovations such as zero emission car engines and now also, the mobile web. Like the iPhone, the Model S’ dashboard system is definitely setting a new trend and could become an important catalyst for a new range of mobile applications. I expressed my enthusiasm in this blog post: www.capgemini.com/technology-blog/2009/05/the_tesla_cloud_mobile_model_s.php
This is the greatest tribute to our dear Nikola… apart from his statue in Belgrade. I’ll buy one of these cars as soon as they are available in Australia.
Just want to say that i´m a huge fan of combustion cars but still i really LOVED the concept of both the Model S and the Roadster. Really amazing pieces of engineering and vision. They focus on clean power, looks fantastic, runs more than 200 miles with a performance of a supercar. Congrats!!
Can´t wait to own one!
The car is gorgeous and that touch screen is stunning! However, one potential problem with using touch screen controls in a car is that there is no tactile feedback, the driver can’t tell by touch alone where the controls are, and must take their eyes off the road to look at the screen, which is a potential safety hazard. There are solutions, though. One is to use conventional controls in other locations, such as on the steering wheel or armrests.
Another is to use tactile markers to indicate the location of certain on-screen buttons. This could include ridges along the frame, or a clear plastic grid overlay on part of the screen.
A third possibility is voice command, that has already been successfully implemented by Ford and Microsoft in their “Sync” program. Voice recognition should be even easier to implement in the relatively quiet cabin of an EV. However, you shouldn’t rely too heavily on voice recognition, as there are times when extraneous noises or laryngitis could render it useless. Always have an alternative means of control in case voice recognition should fail.
i find it disconcerting that i’m unable to see the interior of the s - what’s the deal?
I watched a piece on Dateline tonight about Tesla Motors and I have to admit that is was totally amazed. The exterior appearance of the S and Roadster were awesome. I love the whole EV notion and I can only hope that your company continues to grow and show the Big 3 that an EV is possible and practical. I wish your company was publicly traded as I would love to invest in a company that will be on top in the near future. I know that you are opening a store in Chicago soon, so we can cross our fingers and perhaps have a dealership in Omaha by 2012 . I know your cars would do very well here. Congrats!!!
You should open up a shop as close to Huntsville, AL as soon as possible. It may work best near the Porche and BMW dealership. Oh, and more videos of the Model S please! My next car is either going to be the Model S or the Chevy Volt, whichever comes FIRST! Hurry up the cakes!
thism motherloving car rocks oh yeah but somehow I dont have the halibut money 2 buy it but i will some day because this car rocks
Still a little marketing to do if you listen to the following feed from the BBC world services. “Energy for energy there is not much difference (oil or electricity)”.
They further mentioned that current electric cars can only do about 100 Miles and maybe a true statement that the infrastructure for charging (quickly, IC style) is not present yet and a big stumbling block.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p002z54n
Business Daily takes a cool, hard look at electric cars. With the help one of one of the world’s most respected scientific organisations, we’ll calculate whether electric vehicles are actually any greener than ordinary cars.
All around London at the moment, strange posts on the side of the road are appearing. It turns out that they are where electric cars can be re-charged. And these electric cars are also increasingly in abundance, strange-looking squat vehicles that whizz around.
On top of that, the governments in Britain and Germany are offering cash to people who switch to electric. But, are these schemes as green as they seem, particularly if the electricity comes from a coal fired power station far away?
I currently live in Singapore and incentives are now underway to get an electric charge infrastructure going. Renault-Nissan have made a statement that they will launch EV’s but the test bed is open for any other EV brand. Tesla when are you coming to Singapore!
Although I will have to save up a little I WILL be one of your customers.
where do I purchase a battery of the tesla m s
I have a comment about iPod/iPhone support in the Model S.
The Tesla FAQ says we can connect via a stereo jack, but that’s not good enough for a high tech vehicle released in 2011/2012. I’m talking about something like Ford’s SYNC, where you connect your iPhone and all the music controls are at the wheel or dashboard, and the song/album info shows up on the car’s display. Spoken aloud voice commands for music playback (”play track XYZ”) would be great, too (Ford does this). If Ford can put this in a car that costs under $20k, I would expect Tesla, at $50k, to have this feature, and I’d be disappointed to not see it there.
Hi! Nice cars you are building. I just wonna say some thing about Nikola Tesla. I had seen on Discovery channel show called Green wheels. One of owner said that Tesla is great AMERICAN inventor. Well that American is wrong.
He was born in Europe, Croatia, in place called Smiljani. He was inventing, and die in America. So, next time, do your homework before you say something that is false. Thank you for your time. I hope there is no hard feelings?
Greetings from Croatia!
Tomislav
The new BMW 7 series iDrive is a nice interface between a monitor and human for navigation and other controls. It uses five old fashioned buttons to toggle between often used functions, and a wheel to navigate. It might be something to look at.
Good news to model S. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet test drove BYD E6 pure electric crosssover. This can be used as a leverage to get DoE loan for model S quick. If Tesla can’t build model S soon, this market will be left for Chinese car makers.
news.chinacars.com/news/cjdt/463537.shtml
Is there a rough estimate of when we will learn more about the pricing of the larger batteries and AWD options? I mean are we talking weeks, months or years for these details? Are decisions on hold until the loan guarantees come through? or are these points going to be decided after the factory is well under way? The extended range is of great interest to me as is the brief mention of AWD for handling in snow. My existing car will need replacing in the 2012-2014 time frame and the Model S will be a great choice for me if the range is sufficient.
Cablechewer;
by that time period, battery tech will be changing fast. The basics have already been discovered, and some don’t require much re-tooling etc. Range should end up being the least of your worries, as up to 1-2,000 miles per charge is now looking likely.
But charging time is going to be a continuing issue if you want a big charge-up in a short time. It will require special charging posts etc. to take full advantage of the batteries’ theoretical capabilities.
Have you thought about incorporating thin light-weight solar panels to the roof and/or hood of the car to help recharge the batteries? My car spends most of the day idle under the hot sun in a parking lot while I’m at work. It might increase milage in between charges. Just a thought. Anyway, great looking car, great concept…. you just made the top of my list as my next auto purchase providing you can keep the cost reasonable.
Looking at the beautiful rims on the right side of the car . The rimspoks remind me of titanium turbine compressor blades of a corporate jet.
The blades are angled so they draw air from the bottom of the car and therefore creating a low pressure area under the car when the car is in forward motion, and at the same time drawing air over the brakes to increase their cooling.
So why would you try to reduce the downforce of the car by mounting the same rims on the left side of the car that would pump air under the car at freeway speeds and
destroy the downforce created by the rims on the right side.
I hope the final product will have different part number rims on the left side than the right.
P.S. Do you really need a Tack on the Tesla Roadster which has a single speed Transmission. One guage with both RPM and speed would be possible, since the two are proportional. ( less weight=better performance)
Erik.
I just saw this video in youtube about Type S: www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YN3MAHmhY
That info-screen is meant to be replacement for ordinary controls, right? It is way too bright and bad for your night vision, also because you don’t have knobs etc. that gives you info about where your hands are you need to actually look what you are doing. Cool, but not practical or safe. I would rather have ordinary controls in ordinary console, it is safer that way. That 17 inch panel should be *ONLY* for information, not for controls. In fact I would do it so that you have only few controls that can switch between different modes and info about what you are doing is shown in front of you in between speedometer and whatever that other meter is (RPM?). Like scroll and push -knobs. Secondary display in center for passenger to adjust controls if (s)he wants to.
I repeat: Cool, but not practical or safe.
Main thing is that you should not need to look what you are doing, and in nighttime the less illumination in cockpit the better. At dark all illuminations should be red and not very bright, because that doesn’t hurt night vision.
I also need to say that Elon has horrible taste of music.
The Model S is stunningly beautiful. And electric, and affordable. What more could America ask for? I plan to get one.
Any more details on the Daimler stake of 10% into Tesla? Planned cooperations, sharing of dealer networks, maintenance support globally?
# Tomislav Vrenko wrote on May 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am
# I just wonna say some thing about Nikola Tesla. I had seen on Discovery channel
He was born in Europe, Croatia, in place called Smiljani.
# show called Green wheels. One of owner said that Tesla is great AMERICAN inventor.
# Well that American is wrong.
# He was inventing, and die in America.
He became a naturalized American citizen — therefore, American by choice, formally disavowing foreign allegiances — in 1891, at the age of 35, with many very significant patents and inventions (e.g., for radio) still before him. So although I salute Tesla’s European ancestry and heritage, and meaning no disrespect to the Serbs or the lovely land and talented, passionate people of Croatia, I think it is completely correct to call Tesla an American inventor. Had he kept his foreign citizenship, I would think differently. But he lived 51 years as a US citizen and only 35 years as a citizen of another country. Put another way, Tesla lived as many years as an American citizen as I have (so far ). It wouldn’t be fair of me to describe him as anything other than “American.” Thank you, Croatia, for ushering Nikola Tesla into the world. Our two countries can and should both be proud of the early support and opportunities they gave him. My country, on the other hand, deserves no small amount of shame for more or less kicking Tesla to the curb for so many years. At least he finally got the radio patent — and these fantastic cars that depend on his three-phase motor design.
Hmmm. Just thinking about this. Can you guys get a matchbox or even hotwheels made of both your cars? I think that it would be handy to have kids and their dad’s seeing these and thinking about it. If you can make it run (i.e. with an electric motor), all the better. It would be nice marketing.
How well do these electric cars work in climates that require a powerful A/C system in the hot humid summers and the bitterly cold snowy icy winters in of the midwest . What about traction in snow.
Eric;
power expended is power expended. AC and heating require no more % of Tesla’s power-store than and ICE car requires of its gasoline storage, really. And traction is a function of tires, suspension, and power. Tesla has all of them, and very smart anti-skid electronics to help out.
I stumbled arcoss this webpage one day doing research on Nikola Tesla for a college paper and I must say I fell in love with the S Model the minute I saw the thing not just with the physical design of the car but the preformance is mind blowing. It’s nice to see other people commenting positivly about the cars, you guys are dealing with a lot of false stereotypes about electric cars and like the man whom your company is named after you’re doing a fantastic job in proving them wrong. I’ll let you know that if I can ever afford it I’ll be buying one of your cars, I don’t care if GM comes out with a cheaper model, you guys have won me over simply with your attitude and brilliance.
Hey Eric;
“heating require no more % of Tesla’s power-store than and ICE car requires of its gasoline storage”
Are you sure about that?
Consider that the heating of the engine for ICE is on-going and constant. The only difference is whether or not you have the fan on to blow the heat into the cab of the vehicle. The Tesla on the other hand only provides the heat when you want it. As a result with the Tesla, you have precise control over how much heat you want.
So, if you’re going to compair the amount of energy used to produce heat, and the amount of energy used to warm the people, I’d say ICE is extraordinarily inefficient and uses way more fuel energy then required
As a result, the percentage of gas fuel used to produce heat vs the percentage of electricity to produce heat, the % will be less in the Tesla!
RAS
A couple quick thoughts a little more serious and far less faceitous:
a) Eric did say “no more” so significantly less would be correct
b) The key issue will be the perception.
Due to how ICE works, it doesn’t matter if it’s summer or winter, it’s still burning the same amount of fuel. So an ICE vehicle in the summer time that can go 650 miles can do roughly the same in the winter.
There’s no noticeable change on gas mileage.
However, with the Telsa, both vehicles are extremely efficient including where heat is concerned. You won’t be using the heater in the summer, only the winter. So… without adding in the AC in the summer, each Tesla vehicle will appear to have it’s “gas mileage” affected with the heater on in the winter. If the AC uses an equal amount energy the heater does and you use the AC equally in the summer as you do the heater in the winter then you probably won’t notice a difference in your “regular gas mileage”
RAS
I love this car, quant it will be imported in France?
I want one, I want one.
At last the possibility of fresh air in the world, I love the design, and feel particularly pleased that your team have achieved such success in following your dream through. The impact on our health will be amazing, an alternative to the toxins being spilled into the sea from drilling for oil in the future. Oh at last.
Roger S;
Eric asked the question; it was my response you were quoting. Your point is valid, but you might think of the Tesla temp control as using a bit of the “slack” wasted energy that ICE cars are always emitting. And A/C, of course requires compression and circulation in either car, as there is no “waste cooling” to exploit.
jacqueline;
Oil beds under the sea have been leaking (”seeping”) into the seas for megayears. It’s all food for the bugs at the bottom of the food chain.
I was wondering if Uncle Sam (Mr. Obama) has decided if Tesla deserves some STIMULUS love. Next - will you make a really oversized SUV equipped with a sound system that fools everyone into thinking that it has a 3.7 MPG diesel motor?
Doh! My mistake…. chalk it up to not noticing the “Brian H” immediately above “Eric;”
With regards A/C, I didn’t touch on that as I simply don’t know the mechanics surrounding how that works in ICE….. never really had need to look into it yet
So… with regards A/C…. the energy use is pretty much equivalent except for the efficiency of one A/C unit vs another A/C unit whether those units are taken from different vehicle technologies or the same. Knew I had reason not to touch on that issue
With the comparison of the A/C vs Heater and winter vs summer, I was refering from the perspective of strictly the Tesla. That is where I think the perception of most people will play a key role. If the AC uses an equivalent amount of energy the heater does, then the perception will be a consistent “gas mileage” for the Tesla. If the AC uses more, or less, then the perception will be that - and remember, I’m talking about the perception of the average driver and what they are used to, not the reality of the technology - the perception will be that the Tesla gets much worse gas mileage in one season then the other.
If this ends up worse in the winter, this will play right into the hands of those who nay-say battery operation in the winter. There’s a common perception (at least where I work) that battery operation will fail in an Edmonton winter. I keep pointing out that certain lithium ion battery technology can discharge electricity down to -50 celsius. That actually makes battery operation more reliable then ICE which requires block heaters at -30…. safer to be plugged in sooner, but you know what I mean. Of course, everyone is looking at me funny except those familiar with more recent battery technologies.
Oooohhhh, I just thought of a good example I can use to highlight that difference. I think I’ll ask those who have had their ICE vehicle fail whether it failed because the battery simply wouldn’t turn over or because the oil had gelled to the point it could no longer cold-crank. Heh, never realised before that even the old technology in ICE proves battery operation is better in the cold then oil is.
In very cold climate it is usually the ICE engine lead-acid battery that fails, not oils. Or at least not oils, if you have appropriate oils for cold climate. I have had a Fiat that never ever refused to start (because of the weather), not even at -30 celcius, though driving it was rather strange in that cold before things got heated up. Tires felt square (smooth rolling, bumb, smooth rolling, bumb…) steering needed some force, and engine “felt” like it runs reluctantly, but runs, suspension was rock hard etc.
Anyway, if your battery fails your BEV in cold weather, it isn’t any different than your battery failing in ICE-engine.
Hey Timo;
I was speaking from my locale with what I’m familiar with being the most common failure of vehicles in the winter.
In Edmonton here, we regularly get -30 C in the Winter. With wind chill, we drop down to -50, -55 C easy. This past winter, we hit -42.7 C, last year we hit a low of -44.4 C. That’s without the wind chill. My reference is Environment Canada for Edmonton at: www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/monthlydata_e.html
Based on SAE ratings, 0w oil is rated for -35 C weather. I have never seen oil rated for lower temperatures except in marketing material. If you have a link, please provide. I have seen claims by manufacturers for as low as -40 C. I chalk those up to marketing as the ones I’ve seen that on rate their oil at 5w (officially recognized for -30).
With regards lead-acid batteries, it appears they can discharge at -40 C based on this link: pvcdrom.pveducation.org/BATTERY/charlead.htm
I have no idea how reliable that information is. Google isn’t providing too many information links for my queries. They’re mostly sales pitches.
The best rating I’ve seen on Li Ion battery technology so far is -50 C although it appears there’s work involved to get them discharging reasonably as low as -80 C.
Reference: www.covalentassociates.com/Li-ion%20Battery%20Electrolytes%20Designed%20For%20a%20Wide%20Temperature%20Range.pdf
With regards the standard lead-acid batteries in vehicles around here, the most common failure in the winter is that the oil refuses to cold-crank. This usually happens when people forget to plug in their block heaters. After trying to start the vehicle for several minutes, the next failure occurs in the battery as it was drained from the combined effect of trying to cold-crank the oil and the cold, and a boost is commonly required.
Perhaps in your location the oil is of much better quality? Or perhaps the lead-acid batteries are of much lower quality?
With regards the battery failing, I agree… if you have exactly the same battery technology in both the BEV and the ICE, they’ll fail equally under the same extreme cold. When you’re talking utilizing different battery technologies though, they have different failure points much like different ratings of oil. For example, the Li Ion technology used for the Roadster has a rating to 0 C if I’m not mistaken. That makes the roadster a summer-only vehicle in Edmonton…. not that that’s a bad thing
My comment with regards those I’ve been in discussion with in regards whether or not Electric vehicles are reliable in an Edmonton winter are - by nature of the discussion - individuals in Edmonton. So, as shown above, my point with regards the oil in the standard ICE vehicle in Edmonton vs the Lead-Acid battery in the standard ICE vehicle in Edmonton put battery technology ahead of oil with execution in extreme cold.
Side note: With the temperatures I’m used to, I wouldn’t really consider -25 C or -30 C “extreme” cold. It’s certainly cold, but wait till you go out with a wind chill that drops the temp to -55 C
Tesla site: Here’s an NYT article on the potential sale/preservation of Tesla’s main power transmission experimental lab:
www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/science/05tesla.html
and a slide show about it and him:
www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/05/04/science/050509-Tesla_index.html
Tesla preservationists are attempting to get backing to acquire the site, which Agfa is saying it is going to sell for ~$1.6 million, possibly cleared of all buildings. A TM contribution to the preservation/museum fund might be a good PR and scientific gesture!
Roger S;
I grew up in Deep River, Ont, bedroom town for the Chalk River nuclear plant currently much in the news. (It’s about midpoint between Ottawa and North Bay, Ont., on the Ottawa River.) One year when I was in grade 6 or so, (late ’50s) we had a day at - 65°F. The next day was -35°F with a stiff wind. That was much worse!
Block heaters were much favored for cars.
Brian;
-65 F = -53.9 C
-35 F = -37.2 C
Converting for my own sanity
I can easily see -35F with a good wind pushing the wind chill below -65 F. Heh, at -5 C (23 F), I start substracting 10 C for windchill purposes when I’m dressing to go outside. At -35 F, -37 C, I’d easily drop it 15 to 20 C for the windchill.
Good thing you didn’t have the good brisk wind at -65F…. I’m thinking Arctic weather equivalent…. -103 F (-75 C) with the windchill. Yup! You win, you’ve experienced colder then me
I just hope that’s not “normal” for you.
At that temperature, -65F, both oil and batteries are likely to fail if left unworking for very long I’d imagine.
I hear they don’t stop their vehicles way up North, just let them continue idling, as that’s asking the weather to freeze them solid.
Note: Sure wish I could hit a preview button and check for spelling, layout, etc. before submitting
Roger S; Wind chill doesn’t really apply to things that are at same temperature as surrounding air. Wind chills, but effect is based on heat transportation to surrounding air, and that no longer happens if item is already as cold as air is. Wind can also heat thing up if air is hotter than object is.
Anyway, I live in north Europe (hit: our capital city is northernmost continental European capital city) and here -30 C isn’t common but it does occur every now and then in the winter. Oils here are very good quality, usually much better than southern oils (0W -35C is really -35C). Lead-acid batteries usually start to lose their discharge capabilities in very cold, they do work in -30, but not that well, and engine is much harder to turn so battery loses power fast in that process.
Side note: I once bicycled to school (~5km) at -30C temperature in pretty powerful wind that blowed straight from the front. And I was in hurry. My entire front clothing was frozen when I get to school and my back was moist from sweat from fighting the wind.
Hi Franz…..great article and beautiful car! In case Tesla Motors hasn’t decided yet on where the manufacturing plant is to be; may I suggest Lodi, California? (Yes, the same town immortalized in the Creedence Clearwater Revival song “Stuck in Lodi Again”) We’re about an hour from Sacramento and two hours from the Bay Area, and, surprisingly enough, the cost of living is still a little less than the surrounding cities due to our “small town” atmosphere. But our city council is always looking for job creating facilities and I, personally, would prefer a Tesla Motors manufacturing plant to a Super WalMart (which our council is currently discussing). Anyway, if Tesla hasn’t decided yet, give this little backwoods town a thought especially since the city council might be amenable to some perks for locating here! LOL!
Incredible.. incredible company, incredible technology, incredible cars.. That you can offer these cars at such a “reasonable” price is incredible. I would love nothing more than to see Tesla grow, and become the model of what a US car company should be. I won’t speak to the technology, so much has been said.. Please for the sedan, the interior, do not go down the path of so many American cars.. ensure that the materials are quality, all touch points should be of quality materials.. personally, I’d rather spend 500.00 more for a vehicle and enjoy the feeling of a well made interior.
Julie;
AFAIK, the deal is that they are looking for an existing plant/warehouse structure currently unused and unoccupied. I gather there’s no shortage.
Starting to get nervous about the timeline. Getting an auto assembly plant up and running can’t be done in a few months.
>> Side note: I once bicycled to school (~5km) at -30C
I work with a guy like that…. you’re both crazy!!!!
>> Wind chill doesn’t really apply to things that are at same temperature as surrounding air.
That is true, which is why I left it out to cover the experiences I outlined. I only noted it for the effect of the “skin meet winter” situation
Congratulations on the 500th roadster and the prototype model s! I always look forward to the blogs and news found here. Is any work being done on the third gen tesla ?
Interesting… But what sign on novelties of the news?
How about battery replacing stations. If there is a network of battery swapping stations, I can pull over to the station, and the clerk there can check the charge remaining in my battery and he will give me a fully charged battery but I only pay the difference between the leftover charge in my battery and the full charge. This way, I can fillup my battery without the fear of running out of charge where there is no charging station.
About 20 yrs ago during my engineering days, I was thinking of electric scooters/bikes with a replacement battery. The idea is simple. Have the gas stations keep some batteries that are fully charged, and when the scooter comes, the station people have a special system that swaps the battery quickly so that the scooter rider doesn’t have to wait for the charge. Ofcourse getting an idea is onething and being able to implement is another thing.
BTW, I love this car and I wish you all the best. Sorry GM , you killed electric car and am glad Tesla is reviving it.
Does anybody know exactly when the Chicago service and sales center is going to open? I desperately want some pictures of the place.
Could you tell me and invite when you will will sell Asia (Taiwan) The woolen cloth?
Hey SriniBoss
That is a great idea. Good thing someone has thought of it. www.betterplace.com/ This could be amazing.
Is it possible to have one set of drive wheels, and use the other set of wheels to charge a back up system?
Would it be possible to use the air flow under the car to charge?
Could entire surface of the car be used like a solar panel?
I love Tesla Motors!
Michael Leskowitz
# Michael Leskowitz wrote on June 17th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
# Is it possible to have one set of drive wheels, and use the other set of wheels to charge a back up system?
No.
# Would it be possible to use the air flow under the car to charge?
No.
# Could entire surface of the car be used like a solar panel?
Yes, but benefit would be insignificant and cost would be high.
# I love Tesla Motors!
Me too.
Michael Leskowitz, Tesla cars already have a motor that can be reversed to act as a generator, restoring some charge to the batteries, but it slows the car down, as the energy comes from the momentum of the car. It’s called “Regenerative braking”. It really isn’t a good idea to drive around with the brakes on, even if they are regenerative, even if they are on separate wheels from the drive motor.
You’ve overestimated the energy a small wind turbine can produce. Any sort of wind turbine attached to the car would cause drag, forcing the drive motor to use more energy, more than the small wind turbine could produce. It would actually reduce driving range.
The surface could be covered by solar cells, but with current efficiencies, the amount of electricity produced would be small, those solar cells would add at most 5 miles of driving after sitting all day in the sun, if shaded, far less. At current prices, around 4 dollars a watt, it just isn’t worth it. If the cost could be brought way down and the efficiency improved, that could change, but it still wouldn’t provide all the power needed for the average driver, it would still have to be plugged in for charging.
Can we get some more information about the 4-wheel-drive option?
Franz, the Model S is a towering design achievement. A masterpiece of “constrained excellence”, a truly magnificent play of precision engineering, aesthetics, mass, structure and time brought together in light.
—PG
“Leather” huh? I’m not in the market now, but I’d love to have an option with no leather. (Vegetarian, here.)
I do love the style of the Model S. It’s beautiful! I’ve been following Tesla for a while now. One day…
The Model S is absolutley stunning.
If you need someone to participate in some real world testing in the East give me a call. I can’t wait to start seeing these vehicles here in Ohio.
MT
Thank you TESLA for doing what we should have done over 100 years ago!
Let’s not forget electrical cars did exist already at the start of automotive industry…and they were equally powerful as the combustion-types at that time.
The Model S seems like the perfect car to me…not an easy thing to say being a BMW addict!
I hope it will match this brand’s famous handling characteristics, so I’m really curious to do a test drive some day…
Some thoughts, remarks and questions from a possible future Model S owner:
# I love the touch screen, but share the same concerns as previously mentioned + I noticed on the footage that the screen was hard to read because it’s reflecting almost like a mirror…
# Personally I care a lot about a good visibility outwards, I noticed the most rearward side window is in fact a black part and not a real window on the prototype!?! Will this stay like that? It is creating a dangerous ‘blind angle’ this way!
# Some car manufacturers are thinking of leasing future car’s batteries, so you could update to better ones as technology evolves… What’s Tesla’s opinion on this?
# off course I’d like more details on when exactly and at what price this car will be sold in Europe…
# Wouldn’t it be nice to have an EV compete with combustion cars in some kind of car racing as possible marketing?
That’s it for now…
TB, Brussels
The Model S is a beautiful automobile, but the current rendition has some caveats:
The transparent roof is a deal-breaker for me. If you’ve ever ridden in a car with a sun roof that has no sliding shade, you’ll know what I’m referring to - there is no escape from the glare and infrared rays of the sun, no mater how heavily tinted the overhead glass may be.
The over sized wheels and low profile tires (an absurd trend with no end in sight) are going to make for a much harsher ride and invite wheel damage the first time you take a bump to fast.
The propeller design of the wheels is going to draw brake dust outwards and accelerate the build-up of brake dust on the inside of the wheel rims.
halibut! Where am I going to get $50K for the S-model. I love it. Is there a lease program? sign me up!
Wow. That is a nice looking car! But $50K is a fair bit!
If you have finacial options to purchase this vehicle when it is available, then please let me know. I am tired of internal cumbustion (19th century) technology and I want one of these as soon as possible. But please, please, please! Open the dealership in Houston. If you don’t have anyone to do it, then you can consider me as a candidate for the job.
Mike Valor
While I find the idea of a “glass cockpit” WAY cool and futuristic (even some AIRCRAFT haven’t gotten that far, yet!), the “distraction factor” while driving is something to consider in the final vehicle design. If you haven’t noticed, more and more States are giving SERIOUS consideration to “outlawing” cell phones in cars (some have already passed such laws), and with good reason, considering the studies which have been undertaken. Too many drivers have NOT had the training / experience of controlling a vehicle (car or aircraft) and talking on a radio / phone at the same time. The accident rate goes up, thereby. Heck, I have been WALKING and almost been run down by distracted drivers who’ve run traffic signals while yakking on their cell phones while driving! It is NO accident that TVs are NOT permitted in cars, within sight of the driver, in most States. Limiting the “glass cockpit” to “information only” is the only SAFE way to go: you may want to check aviation studies of accidents caused by distractions and “information overload” in the cockpit, before you start loading up the touch screen with internet access and other “communications” functions! Also, the lack of tactile input on the touch screen (so one must LOOK at the “glass cockpit” to see what one is doing, and thus removing one’s eyes from the “all important” DRIVING task at hand!) might present yet another safety hazard! Other posters are correct about the need for “red” lighting of instruments (INCLUDING the touch screen navigational display) at night to preserve night vision. Don’t get me wrong: the “S” car is a technological “tour de force” - just don’t get carried away with the technological “toys” in the “glass cockpit” and cause “accidents waiting to happen”…
Note on heating / cooling: I have driven in Florida, the desert Southwest, DC, and Utah, as well as most of the States in between, in all seasons and conditions. My experience has been that an internal combustion vehicle uses more energy in the summer for cooling, PARTICULARLY the more “window glass” the vehicle has: cooling the vehicle NOTABLY reduces gas milage during hot summer afternoons! In the winter, the heating bleeds off the heat from the radiator, so it does NOT cause notable reduction in gas milage during cold winter nights. Considering the Tesla has NO radiator, “climate control” might be a MAJOR issue in BOTH summer and winter, as it would reduce range performance of the electrical batteries in BOTH cases!
I am french and i just want to say THANK YOU THERY MUCH tesla for this vehicle .
your main interest it s to safe the world .
your thinks it isn’ t the man vs nature but the man with nature and for nature .
thank you .
BTW, I LOVE your adaptation of the “Knight Rider” theme from the TV Series in the “promo” videos: it makes me wonder if you are planning to have an “optional extra” red LED that goes from side to side across the front of the vehicle!
Hello,
Your car is absolutely fantastic and I can not wait to place an order as soon as it is available.
I watched this video and cried when I realized what the car companies and the oil companies have done to the environment for the past 100 years to make huge profits.Have a look at this car race were the electric car is competing with all sorts of tuned up gas cars and winning every time. The electric car is here.
Link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8&feature=player_embedded
I work in an other industry going completely against the chemical companies that have been destroying the environment in the name of huge profits as well. It is time to take the world back and put the polluters in jail.
www.solventfreepaint.com
Keep up the good work
Soren Eriksson
Victor, NY 14564
USA
Love the concept and the car, but have a comment on the charging:
Why force the charging port to be where you pump gas?
I think the absence of a little round door on the side of the car would make more of a statement.
Furthermore, if the door is on the left side and I park on the right side of the garage, I foresee a long power cord for someone to trip over.
Having to plug a power cord into the car in the first place seems unsophisticated (and something many people would forget to do). My roomba can dock and charge itself, why can’t the car?