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These are extraordinary times. The global financial system has gone through the worst crisis since the Great Depression, and the effects are only beginning to wind their way through every facet of the economy. It’s not an understatement to say that nearly every business will be impacted by what has unfolded in the past weeks, and this is true for Silicon Valley as well.
At Tesla, we have decided that the wise course of action is to focus on our two revenue producing business lines - the Roadster and powertrain sales to other car companies. In the Roadster, Tesla has a unique product with a large order book that continues to grow, despite softness in the automobile sector. Our powertrain business is profitable today and is also growing rapidly.
Our goal as a company is to be cash-flow positive within six to nine months. To do so, we must continue to ramp up our production rate, improve Roadster contribution margin and reduce operating expenses. At the same time, we must maintain high production quality and excellent customer service.
For this critical phase of the company, the scope of my role at Tesla will expand from executive chairman and product architect to CEO. With SpaceX now having reached orbit and about to enter its third year of profitability, I can afford to increase time allocated to Tesla. Ze’ev Drori, who has made extraordinary progress with the company over the last year as CEO, will stay on the board of directors as vice-chairman and continue to help Tesla make the right decisions. It has been and will continue to be a pleasure and an honor working with Ze’ev.
Special Forces Philosophy and Consolidation of Operations
One of the steps I will be taking is raising the performance bar at Tesla to a very high level, which will result in a modest reduction in near term headcount. To be clear, this doesn’t mean that the people that depart Tesla for this reason wouldn’t be considered good performers at most companies – almost all would. However, I believe Tesla must adhere more closely to a special forces philosophy at this stage of its life if we aspire to become one of the great car companies of the 21st century.
There will also be some headcount reduction due to consolidation of operations. In anticipation of moving vehicle engineering to our new HQ in San Jose, we are ramping down and will close our Rochester Hills office near Detroit. Good communication, tightly knit engineering and a common company culture are of paramount importance as Tesla grows.
What Does This Mean for the Model S?
Tesla is absolutely committed to development of our next generation vehicle, to be unveiled early next year. However, we are going to reduce activity on detailed production engineering, tooling and commitments to suppliers until our Department of Energy loan guarantee becomes effective.
The DOE loan guarantee will cover most of the Model S program at a very low cost of capital compared with raising equity financing in what could quaintly be described as a “bear market.” The loan funding can only be drawn down after we receive environmental approval for our new 89-acre consolidated headquarters in the city of San Jose. If all goes reasonably well, we will receive that approval in Q2 next year.
The net result will be a delay in start of production of the Model S of roughly six months to mid-2011. On the plus side, we will spend the extra time refining the vehicle design and powertrain technology, so the car will end up being slightly better.
Financing
The Tesla investors and I are unequivocally dedicated to ensuring the success of Tesla. If you have bought a car from Tesla or are thinking of doing so, please know that I personally stand behind delivering a product that you will love and continuing to develop new models in the future. We are not far from being cash flow positive, but, even if that threshold ends up being further than expected, I will do whatever is needed to ensure that Tesla has more than sufficient capital to get there.
I’d like to thank the loyal customers of Tesla that have stood by us through thick and thin. Beyond delivering a great Roadster, Tesla will find other ways to reward that loyalty, including among other things an exclusive preview of our upcoming Model S sedan.
That was to be expected in this financial situation, I guess. I just hope that the gov’t will hurry up with the environmental approval. Good luck! Tesla might come out stronger on the other side, and if Elon does what he did for SpaceX, I have no worries.
There is a lot I could say, but I won’t say it. Net net, I’m not surprised, Elon. You and this company still have a lot of growing up to do.
These are tough time; and a soft market, combined with increasing restrictions in capital are only going to make them more challenging.
It is completely understandable that Tesla must do everything it can to get down to “fighting weight” in order to come out of the current economic conditions ready to attack.
I am following Telsa and Elon closely, I wish you all best, while the big 3 are struggling, I hope you will grow up and take over the world of automobile. go EV, that is the car we got to drive in 21st.
This all seems a bit machiavellian, but I’m glad that steps are being taken in the right direction. Progress is gradual.
Elon,
Amazing time this morning. Thanks. “It’s a big day for you” you may recall… Rock on.
I have more respect for Tesla after this note. I wish you luck. When there is a real battery there will be real EVs. In the meantime if you can supply components to hybrids and others at a profit there is a chance for you.
Couple things:
1) A car that costs consumers at minimum $60,000 (and upward) is not going to take over the world, seriously. It may be a decent competitor in the luxury market, but there will many other good electric car-makers from the likes of Mercedes, gm (yes even GM), the new karma, which looks very nice, and a variety of others, I imagine. This doesn’t mean Tesla won’t be able to compete. It may compete very well, or it may fail. Either way, there will be a fight for market share amongst the startups and big names. We’ll have to see what happens.
2) the ’special forces’ approach may hinder moral and overall company performance. seems the company simply doesn’t have the financing and/or cash flow to cover current head count given the current project goals. whoever is left (or wants to be left) always comes down to who is better at selling themselves or who is ‘liked’ better. while this approach may work for the military, it may not work for the private sector, especially in the valley, where hardworking creativity doesn’t mesh well with ‘militant’ management style.
If I’m remembering rightly, after Martin’s ouster, one of the first things Ze’ev did was cancel what seemed like a large and lucrative side business selling the Tesla ESS to Th!nk for their city EV. I presume Elon was in agreement about this move. At the time, the reason given was to increase focus on the core task. I’m no expert, but in retrospect, maybe Martin was right, and such a side business would be helping their cash flow right now?
i’m 66yo and liveing on ss so i’ll never have the pleasure of driveing one of your cars i’v often wondered wgy no one had produced a viable elec. car ,good luck i just wish they had been available 40years ago when i stood a chance of being able to buy one . Thank you Mel Telles
There’s a sad irony that while the US Govt approves $25bn for the Detroit Big 3 to bail them out from their own greed and mistakes, Tesla is having to lay off staff and push back production schedules on much-need technology because of arbitrary hurdles to access its own (tiny by comparison) loan. Further proof, if ever it were needed, that those in power will always look after their own.
Tesla simply has to make it through this difficult time. What you are trying to do is too important to succumb to some short-term economic blip that is not of your making. I wish you the best.
Extraordinary times require honesty - you should be very concerned about your past “spin” activity. Markets tend to reward firms that deliver value to customers and shareholders. Customers and investors - you should be hailed for your faith; hopefully it will result in something tangible someday.
I bet there won’t be any shortage of free advice but I looked carefully at a map for the proposed campus site and I have two words for the Tesla team…build high. I was working in that area of north San Jose back in ‘94-95 during the El Nino winters and I remember a lot of surface water flowing through the streets and flooding a number of buildings. The city of San Jose did significantly improve Coyote creek later on but it has not been tested with the kind of downpour an El Nino system can throw and the improvements won’t do much for surface water accumulation. The finished floor elevation of the proposed buildings should be carefully reviewed as it would be a pity to see the new equipment having to suffer the same fate as most people’s stock options nowadays.. being under water that is.
A timely message and a solid plan you have put in. This was required in current market. Only recently I made commitment to purchase the car with full required deposit; therefore as a future owner to be, I was a bit concerned with company’s future. However, reading this message has reaffirmed my belief that you and the company WILL grow, with help from others like me who knows that it starts with the product (roadster) that is so GREAT that it will sell itself.
As you said, the challenges are maintaining high production quality and excellent customer service with less headcount (in timely manner, this is critical). I liked the idea of raising the bar with Special Forces Philosophy to accomplish this. My best wishes are with you and the company.
One suggestion:
As buyer of parts, I would expect the company to re-negotiate with all supplier to reduce their margin to ensure TESLA’s success; which will ensure their means to continue to earn revenue they need to survive in this very difficult market situation. win-win situation. Looking forward to taking ownership of the car whenever my number is called in 2009.
I want make it clear that the poster calling himself “Martinsez” is not me.
Martin Eberhard
My 2 cents is the Tesla should quickly drop LiCoO2 (and LiMn2O4 - if that is being contemplated), along with the heating, cooling, and impact protection, and immediately latch on to the Phosphate movement — either LiFePO4 or nano-phosphate (A123). BYD who will be the next plug-in after Tesla to come out, in 2009, is using LiFePO4 for their plug-ins.
Drop the gears (which you have), drop the heating/cooling, and drop the tiny 18650 cobalts, and get jumbo size prism LiFePO4, which is cheaper, more powerful, more reliable, safer, does not need heating/cooling, and has a cycle life of 2000 (8000 for nano-phosphate).
Spread the battery in the chasis - does not have to be in one big box. Even if necessary go down to 30 or 40 KWh (as long as the price is cut).
Lithium cobalt was a mistake– but not too late to backtrack. — my 2 cents.
I noticed that Tesla is now selling drivetrains to other manufacturers as a revenue stream. Who do you have to talk to in order to purchase the drivetrains in large quantities?
As long as others are throwing in pennies, let me suggest that you consider doing SUV and /or possibly a minivan instead of a sedan. Sedans by their size get ok mileage. But SUV and minivan sales collapsed due to high costs of fuel and low mileage. If you can build an SUV/minVan that appeals to women, than you are likely to sell to loads of moms that RARELY drive more than 100 miles/day. These vehicles could get by with 100-120 miles range and do quite nicely in sales.
btw, FWIW, congrats on falcon. I have been following you since your web site went up (I have done some contract work for NASA (MGS ground system) so was familiar). I look forward to falcon 9 this spring.
I do wish that Bigelow would learn a few lessons from you on your PR (as in open and loaded with info). I have geek friends that have heard of spacex, but never of bigelow. Others that have quit following bigelow and think that they are defunct (but they did follow spacex).
The plans for equity financing or IPO mooted publicly earlier this year sounded absurdly optimistic even at the time, they are a complete non-starter in the present environment. So it seems a bow to reality to admit that it’s going to take longer to raise the funds to build the sedan. The plan to rely on US government support seems entirely sensible. Why that requires firing the CEO, or other supposed “good but not great” performers, is more questionable to me.
As a Tesla customer I’m 100% confident in Elon’s ability to lead and grow the company through these very difficult times. Starting a car company is one of the hardest things in the world you can do–almost as hard as getting a rocket into space or getting folks to send money over the internet in 1998.
The most important thing for any company in this kind of market is survival. Clearly the best action for Tesla to take is a) delighting the current 1,000+ customers for the Roadster and b) generating revenue from services. It’s great to hear that Tesla is taking a very long and measured approach to changing the world.
Good luck and I can’t wait for my Roadster to arrive in the coming weeks!
smart move, but 2011 Model S at $60K is not going to impress anyone, more like a “me too” product.
There is a flurry of upcoming BEV launches in 2009 and 2010 by serious players at significantly lower price points, Paris Motor Show was flooded with them.
@Mohsen: I do not have the technical knowledge to understand the merits of your suggestions. However, it would surprise me if redesigning any parts of the product would decrease the time for Tesla to have a positive cash flow. The product (from what I hear) is good, if not exceptional. Better products and technologies will come, but only if Tesla as a company can continue to exist.
@Brandon: I believe this was always a intended revenue stream.
I could believe that Elon may not always be a treat to work with, but those with vision and passion are required to advance the abilities of the human race. This post shows that Elon cares about the future of Tesla, and like most of us, is doing what he believes is best to move us forward.
Tesla is an important company, and probably (in my opinion) more important than the big 3. I wish you the best of luck.
Ford are you listening?
Crown Victoria - Instant full serial hybrid
Lose the V8 & tranny
+ Tesla motor & controller
+ 5/11th of an ESS
+ 1 Liter clean diesel generator, also running auxiliaries.
Sell one to every cabbie & cop in the country.
I support the vision of plug-in-electric vehicles and Tesla is on the right track. We need to offset our oil demand now and we have vehicles that could be converted practically with components already developed for the roadster that would also provide experience feedback for subsequent generations. There are many experimenters with the resorces and technology to contribute. For instance, I am looking at a DC brushed motor, controller and battery with management system that would replace gasoline engine, fuel system and clutch to drive the transmission directly. My calcs show that a 25kwh battery would give about 125 miles for a 3000 lb vehicle between charges that would be sufficient for daily urban use. I like Mosen favor the A123 nano-phosphate or LiFePO4 for their safety and extended life. Tesla drive motor and controller would be even more efficient. Would Tesla market engineered components to speed things along? I undrstand product liability issues but under reasonable controls Tesla could be protected and increase component productionand build up experience. How about it?
This is a watershed moment for more than just Tesla. The success of this company has far reaching economic implications for our entire manufacturing sector. Utilize your political contacts to garner the necessary private, not public, capital and minimize any exposure to excessive leverage now and in the future. There was never a better time to make the case to weight the business model towards a low, low debt model. Keep the faith, you are on the brink of a monumental success.
It’s painful to hear you’re cutting staff and having to employ damage control, but overall, it’s a tactical move that acknowledges reality. Hunker down, keep yourselfs tight and coordinated, ride it out, and hopefully you’ll come out the other side at the same level you came in. Good luck.
While it’s painful to hear that a barrel of oil has now dropped below $70 - making electric cars less viable - this dip will hopefully be transitory, and the people who are buying up SUVs on the cheap right now are going to feel it real hard in six months.
“While it’s painful to hear that a barrel of oil has now dropped below $70 - making electric cars less viable…”
An electric car that has decent range and can be sold for roughly the same price as a comparable ICE vehicle will be viable, even if gasoline prices drop and stay low. Owning and operating an ICE vehicle entails many more expenses in addition to fuel. I just had to put a new muffler and catalytic converter on my wife’s Toyota, for example. OUCH! You have no idea how much I wanted that check to be an EV payment instead. At the moment, however, inexpensive EVs don’t have the range or power we need.
What will become less viable will be electric cars that are far more expensive than their ICE-based competition.
Mohsen:
Even though the manufacturers of LiPO4 batteries tout their safety and robustness to heat, GM has chosen to provide water cooling for their A123 batteries in the Volt. This is primarily to increase the life of the batteries, so there is no savings on cooling costs by going to these batteries. Tesla has chosen the small Li-Ion batteries because of cost, your statement that the larger batteries are cheaper is simply not true. Li-Ion gives significantly more energy per weight and size, it is for these reasons that Tesla made the right choice. Tesla continuously reviews the battery market, and when a better alternative is available I am sure they will take it. In fact I feel certain that the Whitestar will have a different battery, but I don’t know what it will be.
Whoever named himself MartenSez should be banned from future entries for impersonating Martin Eberhard.
I find it interesting that only now you want to take the approach of a true start-up: hunker down, with employees spending night after night and weekend after weekend working on producing that product. Drive by the Bing St. building on any given weekend, as I have done over the past year and a half to get a “feel” for the work ethic over there, and you may see a couple of cars in the lot. Whatever happened to the days of teams working so hard to punch out deliverables that everyone basically showered at work, ate at work, and didn’t see home for weeks?? It might be wise to think of what kind of corporate culture the leaders of Tesla have promoted along the way, beyond the amazing PR, beyond the idea of something quite fabulous and amazing…. for you to just now start promoting a special forces philosophy seems almost ludicrous. Great concepts, great car, great everything except I worry about the leadership. At the same time, I sure hope the new belt tightening gets more cars out there, they are something wonderful.
Roy -
Wrong. GM just in effect said they are dropping heating/cooling of battery pack for the Volt. The A123 at 0.01 ohms resistance generates no heat. It can operate -20 to +60 without a real reduction of its 8,000 cycle life. 8,000 cyles at 80% DoD, even if compromised in hot Arizona weather to lets say 6,000, is about 16 years of daily 80% depth. Read the interview with GM’s battery director who says they have turned heating/cooling off, and the A123 batteries do not exceed room temperature in operation. The LiMn2O4 batteries get only 2 degrees warmer.
LiCoO2 gets hot when operating. That is why Tesla should drop them fast.
Tesla has chosen the small Li-Ion batteries because of cost, your statement that the larger batteries are cheaper is simply not true.
This is not the case with Lithium Phosphates. The larger cells are cheaper than the smaller ones per unit capacity - and also, LFP cells have dropped in price BELOW LCO cells. (note A123 nLFP cells are still expensive, but LFP cells are cheap).
Li-Ion gives significantly more energy per weight and size, it is for these reasons that Tesla made the right choice.
Well, LiFePO4 cells are Lithium-Ion too. See the Li in the formulation ?? There is enough room in the vehicle chasis to put in LiFePO4 to match the energy capacity. LFP is only 30% less in density.
Tesla continuously reviews the battery market, and when a better alternative is available I am sure they will take it. In fact I feel certain that the Whitestar will have a different battery,..
Heh, so you concede LiCoO2 was a bad choice.
The future is obviously LiFePO4 which does not catch fire on damage or abuse. Tesla can gain a leg over others by being the first there, and drop the cost of battery pack impact protection, pack cooling, and heating - and also reduce the cost of the batteries. If the pack is broken into a dozen smaller modules, then the battery can be fit to the car, and not the car fit to the battery.
Finally, a more flexible pack made of smaller bricks will allow Tesla to provide a 20 KWh pack, with a dealer option for 40 KWh and 60 KWh.
Once Tesla gets up and running with cash flow, then PLEASE put in a 3-gear box — a sport car is not a sport car without gears, even if you dont need them.
I made a similar entry a few months ago, which disappeared, but I’ll try again. Instead of us having to wait for years for a $60,000 car that may get here too late (Volt)?, how about a deal with Chrysler to put your motor,tranny and battery pack in a 300, or Sebring. Is some kind of union of that sort not feasible, to get these on the road years sooner?
You are frittering away your ownly real advantage — time. Big 3 will eventually convert. If you haven’t established an honest-to-goodness brand by then, forget it.
Thanks for your openness and in being proactive in informing us silent admirers of what I consider to be the best glimmer of hope to get our country out of the quagmire it’s in . I may or may not be able to afford one of your cars (40 grand for a car is my self imposed limit) but I and many others are rooting for your success for the sake of the country. The more I study the matter the more I realize that electric is the optimal answer that will get us out of this mess. Hang in there and continue to make the electric car the reality that the big smug, short sighted automakers are incapable of achieving. I think there is a strong possibility that these behemoths may go bankrupt in the not too distant future. This could create unimaginable opportunities for your organization.
Best wishes!
Reduction is often a part of big business. There is no reason to believe that Telsa Motors is immune to the effects of the economy. I believe that the future of the automobile industry lies within the minds of Telsa Motors’ designers and engineers. Whatever is necessary to insure the success of the company, the integrity of the product, and the benefits that will come with the wide use of fully electric vehicles, should be done. The future is now. The rest of the world needs to catch up.
Sorry but we need this car, now more than ever. Especially with the economic times. Green energy is going to drive America’s future economy and now is when we should be investing more not less. If you guys need more investment capital to make this happen in 2 years or less instead of 3 years then get it however you can. Even consider opening up the investments to ordinary people. I’m not rich. I’m just a college student but I’d be willing to invest what I can afford if it would get this car built faster. I’m sure there are millions of people like me. Add it all up and I would say that you could have unlimited investment capital.
The Tesla 6000.
Sounds like a great model S name?
Elon—here’s a proposal….
$150 million funding round in the form of a LLC
“Tesla Units” are sold at $25,000 each.
There will be 6000 “Tesla Units” sold.
The purpose of the funding round is to bring the new Tesla 6000 Sedan to full manufacturing production by Jan 2010.
Owners of the Tesla Units agree to not be paid a dividend untill Jun 2010.
Owners of the Tesla Units can “sell” them per the LLC guidelines on the open market as of Jun 2010.
Owners of the Tesla Units will be able to buy (1) Tesla 6000 Sedan at “cost” for every 2 Tesla Units they own.
Elon—I believe you would get the 6000 Investors by Jan 31st 2009—if the LLC was created by then.
Run the numbers and do some modifications—I think everyone comes out ahead.
Certainly a move that I’d have expected though not wanted to see.
As for drivetrain sales, the speculation about other models in existence that could use EV conversion is extensive. One of the cadidates I’d nominate (and someone is actually doing conversions on) is the Saturn Sky. In fact, it shares the Lotus Elise as a progrenitor with the Raodster. I’d think that installing the power train at the factory instead of stripping a finished vehicle for conversion would save some money. Its $50k for the car & conversion planned (and its a DC drive), I’d wager it could be done for similar or less if done right off on the line, and production scale allowed cost savings per unit.
Ooops sorry — forgot the clutch:
Once Tesla gets up and running with cash flow, then PLEASE put in a 3-gear box with a CLUTCH — a sports car is not a sports car without gears and clutch, even if you DONT need them!
Mohsen:
A few weeks ago GM said that the Volt battery pack would be water cooled, now you tell me this has changed. Would you please provide a link to this information? When I said that I believe the Model S will have a different system, I by no means think that Tesla made a mistake with their present system, just that there are a lot of new developments and they had to make their decision several years ago and now have to make a new decision for 2010. Tesla put a huge effort into their present system, and it takes years to get things like approval for air shipment and crash tests, your suggestion that they should drop what they have immediately and adopt a new system shows that you have no appreciation for how long the process takes. I’m not sure what the next step is but I think Lithium Manganese Polymer is a good bet, or maybe EEStor will turn out to be real instead of vaporware, but I don’t think that Lithium Iron Phosphate is the best choice.
BTW Elon, congratulations on your successful Falcon 1 flight! But I must demonstrate my ignorance by wondering how SpaceX has been profitable for 3 years when you have yet to put a customer satellite in orbit.
Mohsen–
Wake up. The future is clutch-less, gas-less, and horse-less.
Tesla: Are you going to update the power and torque curve to show what power-train 1.5 does?
Isn’t this still showing 1.0 ? :
www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
I am rooting for Tesla! There is no good reason a grassroots effort electric car company can’t survive and grow in today’s times. Elon is clearly inspired and passionate about his vision and we should encourage him to be fearless in his quest, help him get there and spare him any anxiety with their feelings and/or get out of his way. American pride can be used to make this all work and we should try to be proud of him and support what he trying to do as an american entrepreneur and visionary!
The government can always be tapped to grow out the company if the right friends can be made at the top, starting with Obama. I worked in the space sector for years and the scale of money and contracts that are let to the big contractors is a whole order of magnitude greater than any amount of funding needed to grow out Tesla and the vision of the perfect electric car.
I think it is time the big 3 get their asses kicked and and their friends at the top (in government) are shown the door. They’ve had their chance and they blew it. If you think I’m wrong, get a Segway and use it in your town to get around and see for yourself how horrible the air smells and feels noxious to breathe with just you gliding along out in the open air anywhere near where there are a customary number of cars in operation. Your senses quickly learn all the flavors of exhaust, rubber, oil, soot, dust, etc. and don’t forget to mention how incredibly noisy these vehicles all are as a collective! From inside a soundproof, air-conditioned, air-filtered environment within a gas motor vehicle we all forget what is directly on the outside. Also. the price of gas wil be continue to be a swinging hammer into our heads, over and over, until one day people will give up and stop driving en masse on a regular basis.
One idea I had was to build out electric cars that had rapidly replaceable battery packs that could be swapped in and out in less than a minute with a robotic, machine vision enabled “attendant” at “Energy Stations” . Using GPS and smart power metering and 3G / WiFi connections a driver could be safely guided to an Energy Station where a fully charged battery pack was waiting for them in the storage “pool” and they could be back on the road in less than a few minutes. Also, power vehicles could be dispatched to needed locations with similar mobile battery change-out automation systems to swap out power packs for motorists that didn’t get to an Energy Station for an extra charge and scheduling delay.
This system could manage new battery solutions more easily than vehicle manufacturers (assuming a pack standard could be agreed upon) and be used to pull depleted power packs from circulation, manage recycling, re-manufacturing, cell replenishment more economically and ecologically as well.
For now, it is fine that an electric car manufacturer provide their own power pack solution, but, eventually I believe my replacement model will prevail, and eventually, take over the role of the “gas station”. Think about it!
The language used is amazing “There will also be some headcount reduction due to consolidation of operations” I have never heard such condensed spin. The point of it all is that there is no cash flow due to the credit crunch and the company will shrink and brace it self. The word “grow” is slipped in on a few occasions. I am using spin now …
We have great people and a great product. I hope it is not the fundamentals of it that is hurting the roadster. Good luck …
To Tesla Motors -
Please stick to your guns and keep your transmission simple. Forgo adding things that are not needed. I do not miss the clopping sound of horse hooves. I do not miss the clutch either. Like the Lambo, consider a button to put future cars in reverse. A shift lever and console between passenger and driver is costly as you know.
Mohsen wrote on October 17th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Ooops sorry — forgot the clutch:
Once Tesla gets up and running with cash flow, then PLEASE put in a 3-gear box with a CLUTCH — a sports car is not a sports car without gears and clutch, even if you DONT need them!
As Mohsen and Roy argue the merits of battery chemical content, Dr Lampe-Onnerud, of Boston Power, did to Li-on what Steve Job’s of Apple did to the smart phone. El Jobso combined phone, music, and Internet with just the right functionality mix. She simplified and optimized the Li-on with just the right chemistry, the physical design, and the safety mechanisms together. “Check out the Lady and the Li-on”. I wonder how this technology would impact a future Tesla Motors vehicle.
spectrum.ieee.org/mar08/6008
Very good news
Good luck 
Hello there , 1st I just wanna say that this is a car I hope I own some day , and that you guys a really putting it on the table and out there with the TESLA
I whant to apologize if my questions are stupid so don’t get mad please , but is just that I’ve been dying to ask these for quite some time now so here it goes and I hope some one knowledgeable can answer them
1.Can you put a battery recharge system in the vehicle ? And won’t it make it a 99% efficient (theoretically) ?
2.If you put a 2nd motor (or two motors) would it be able to accelerate faster?
3.Can the charger be plugged into any power source with different voltage and amperage powers
( lets say a generator or 220-240 Vlts power grid … etc)
And thanks for the great outlook of the future
As for the gear shift + clutch, make it something that is an after-market add-on for the vehicle.
I can see it now:
A clutch that fits between the seats and a clutch pedal that is hooked up to a sound system that simulates the noise of an ICE, and a slight “mod” to the firmware on the Roadster that would drop vehicle performance to simulate what it is like to engage a clutch at low engine RPMs.
Of course early automobiles looked quite a bit like horse-drawn carriages without the horse in the front. Perhaps for the same reason. It will just take time for folks to get used to the idea of a high performance electric vehicle and how it works.
Keep up the good work, Tesla, and I hope that you are able to weather this financial storm and come out ahead. For now, Tesla is posting record setting “profits” compared to the “Big 3″ automakers in America as they at least aren’t running billions of dollars in the red. With some talk on Wall Street wondering if Ford can even survive the next couple years with this burn rate, being conservative on the part of Tesla may be a good thing…. and they don’t have to retool their production line in order to produce electric vehicles
Forget about the White Star for now. Let’s focus on how the delivered Tesla Roadsters are doing. Are their battery assemblies holding up? How’s the mileage? Any serious break-downs? The Roadster is a platform for the future of all-electric cars. The infrastructure is already there in your garage or just bring an extension cord to lunch, work and an over-night stay at a motel. No trucking of hydrogen, biofuels, ethanol-laced gasoline, and lubricants. With the Roadster, no matter what it costs, the energy user is in charge of energy replenishment. When they were first marketed, double A nickle metal hydride batteries were rated at 1500 mAh. Now there’re 2600 mAh. No reason upcoming generations of Tesla Roadster lithium-ion batteries won’t have greater energy densities and the vehicle a range well-beyond 240 miles.
A profile of Elon Musk appeared in my local paper (The Santa Cruz Sentinel) today. www.santacruzsentinel.com/nationalbreaking/ci_10749864
This is probably in the San Jose Mercury News as well, since they recently became co-owned sister publications.
Yanko:
1.from www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/charging_and_batteries.php “packed away in the trunk is an optional Mobile Connector that lets you charge from most standard electrical outlets while away from home. ”
No, it will not make it 99% efficient, Tesla estimates system efficiency about 86%. Just in case you think this is a poor figure, it is the best in the industry. Indivual efficiencies often reported like 98% for converter, 95% for motor, 95% for charger etc. have to be multiplied together to get system efficiency.
2. Tesla has optimized their system and there is no simple way to improve. Yes adding more motors would increase acceleration, but requires more controllers and a different battery chemistry to be able to deliver the required extra power. Since the existing motor pushes the tire traction to it limits, more power would best to be applied to the front wheels or larger tires would be required on the rear. Basically you are talking about re-designing the car and increasing the price.
3. The home charger is designed for 220 volts and the current draw is programmable up to 75 amps. I think the mobile charger works with 110 and 220 volts and amperage is programmable, but I do not know the limit.
Darin Ladd wrote
Wake up. The future is clutch-less, gas-less, and horse-less.
Wake up and read properly. I did say clutch/gear is NOT NEEDED.
I am saying for the fun of it, only in sports cars, you want to have clutch/gears.
Before replying, try to read first. Thanks
HI -
Correct me if I am wrong. But I always thought the reverse on the Tesla was just a toggle swirch that reversed the motor induction. So the reverse is not through gears and is not mechanical, but electrical.
Does anyone know what the correct answer is? Is Tesla reverse mechanical or electrical? If not electrical, why not?
Forget about the White Star for now. Let’s focus on how delivered Tesla Roadsters are doing. Are their battery assemblies holding up? How’s the mileage? Any serious break-downs? The Roadster is a platform for the future of all-electric cars. Their “refueling” infrastructure is already in place –in your garage or just bring an AC extension cord to lunch, work and an over-night stay at a motel. With the Tesla Roadster, the driver, as energy user, is in charge of energy replenishment. When double A nickel metal hydride batteries were first marketed, they had a rating of 1500 mAh. Now they’re at 2600 mah. Upcoming generations of lithium-ion batteries will also have a greater energy density, giving the Tesla Roadster a range well-over 240 miles.
The forward / reverse switch looks like a gear shift lever in the usual location, but really is just an electrical switch for reverse / neutral / drive.
I just test drove an updated unit today after driving my 6-speed M3 up to the showroom. I have to say, that while I like my 6-speed for the control I get delivering the power to the wheels, I don’t miss clutch and gears when driving the Roadster. Normally, in an automatic transmission car, you have the sloppy torque converter in the way and the transmission shifting at the wrong time. But in the Roadster, you have the motor directly connected to the wheels, and there is so much torque available exactly when you want it. And, there is no power gap while you shift. 20-60 feels like a rocket. Once you drive one, you’ll never want a clutch again.
Ehhh, don’t forget the loyal fans that talk your company up to everyone they meet.
We love what you are doing, but are too broke to be a customer.
I think these steps are smart and will help Tesla. It’s stupid to float debt to keep from feeling bad about cutting jobs. In the end if the compnay goes belly up, so do the jobs anyway. Efficiency is very important in a company and the Big 3 could learn much from Elon. And how exactly else are you going to move manufacturing plants/headquarters? Pay transfer costs for all your workers??? That would be financially stupid.
To stay competitive with the upcoming class of “Series” Hybrids like the Chevy Volt, will Tesla move a way from a fully electric vehicles?
By offering a mere 40 miles on electric, Chevy , king of gas guzzlers, stands to transform the automotive and EV landscape. So what can Tesla do to compete like that?
Forget 240 miles on electric and just offer a 60 mile electric with gas powered recharger that kicks in after that. Combine it with Tesla’s existing advanced technologies great design, and know how, package it in 2 models (4 door sedan for families and 2 door for the commuter), and sell it for 15% less than Chevy.
What say you to that?
This powertrain sales idea is a good one - will any of the big automakers order them?
What I don’t see mentioned much is the fact that “mass production” will lower the price of the electric cars, and so all we need to do is embrace electric cars and get people buying them. I am sure that at least 20% of Americans will love them.
An idea to reduce America’s emissions: “beaters” cars are said to be responsible for 65% of America’s passenger vehicle emissions,so lets get them changed over to electric cars!! Beater’s drivers are mostly poorer people, so they will be very happy to not be buying gasoline. HERE IS HOW: Now that the USA government is seeing the value in using their money to do what is needed to solve problems [i.e. credit crisis bailout] , they can put every beater owner into a basic electric car - even just by refurbishing their beaters with an electric drivetrain. This would cost about $10,000 per beater, perhaps half that with mass production of the parts, and the owners pay for batteries and $2000 of the cost. $8000 times [?10 million? ] beaters is just $80 Billion , and America will have significant emissions reductions!!
There is also a big boost the the economy in starting up the alternate energy and electric car industry - many people can get work building electric cars. It is said that oil energy employs significantly fewer workers per energy unit as compared to alternate energy industry … it is the prosperous future!!
You have started delivering cars but I see no coments by the customers who have recieved them for us to get an Idea of the roadsters performance in real life. We would sure like to see some remarks from your customers with experiance with the cars.
Thanks,
Gari
It is a tough market at the moment. The hope I have is that the market for alternative energy sources will bloom. A buddy of mine works in Alaska in the oil industry and he tells me that the wolves are circling protected lands. There is a movement in the country to increase drilling at home and we at Arcattack are doing what we can to educate and inspire interest in science and research to combat this. We believe, much as your company does, that there is no reason to continue down the petroleum path or “settle” for a car that does not meet our aesthetic needs. I drive a hybrid Insight and while I love the car, it is lacking in comfort and power. Certainly it has a distinctive profile, but it is just not “racy” enough for my tastes.
Making cutbacks is hard, but we are in a difficult economic situation. I think, however, that you guys are making the right decisions and am impressed that this blog even exists. Transparency in management is, in my opinion, the cornerstone for effectiveness. Good luck through these hard times and don’t cut your advertising budget. People need to know what to buy.
Mohsen wrote on October 19th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
“Wake up and read properly. I did say clutch/gear is NOT NEEDED.
I am saying for the fun of it, only in sports cars, you want to have clutch/gears.
Before replying, try to read first. Thanks”
Mohsen–
One could levy the same argument towards your initial comment. There are numerous posts on this site (and others like Car & Driver, etc.) that indicate your proposal of adding a superfluous clutch is a-paradigmatic for a “fun electric sports car.” I propose the following: test drive a Tesla roadster (like Carl did above), then post an informed opinion. No need to thank me!
With the finance world being what it is now. I was wondering if there was somewhere/somebody in your company that could put me contact with a person that would like out of their delivery contract? I would be interested in looking to taking over their position.
I’m located on the westcoast of canada
jim
Hi wrote Qct.18 “Check out the Lady and the Li-ion”. I wonder how this technology would impact a future Tesla Motors vehicle.
Thanks for pointing out that balancing current flow between parallel batteries increase their life.I’m sure that’s one of the tricks Tesla use since they have individual monitoring and individual fuses. Any indivdual circuitry would tend to balance current flow even if it wasnot intentional.
I agree with Nubo, Tim and Nathon. There is a lot of competition comming for the Model S from Miles, BYD, Optimum, Tata’s Indica EV and Th!nk. A second wave will come from each of the Japanese companies, Even Mercedes-Benz has said that they will stop producing ICE’s by 2015. The world is going electric and the transition will happen a lot faster than anybody thinks. If Tesla wants to be a leader, Model S must hit the market ASAP.
A couple of comments. One thing that is obvious of the course of the last few months is the heavy ramp up of new hiring. It seems a little crazy to now realize that they cannot afford all those people. It is apparent that the previous CEO was not working closely enough with operations and accounting and finance. One of the roles as a CEO is to drum up cash. Another is to be in tune with the day to day activies. I really like the prospects of this company, but it makes me a little concerned about how they are handling spending. There needs to be loud and clear communication between the levels not down. There is so much of their sucess hingeing on the DOE loan and the EIR. I hope they pull it off. So for now it is in survival mode until the next cash flow. Elon needs to closely watch the spending, be up on the production activites and keep moral up.
Roy wrote on October 19th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Yanko:
1.from www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/charging_and_batteries.php “packed away in the trunk is an ……
Roy , I think you missunderstood my question - I didn’t ment a mobile charger unit to be in the trunk - I’ve read that it has one ,
I ment a rechargeable system like dynamos connected with the wheels so when they spin on say a downhill or high speed when
you are not using the throttle they charge the battery
and since I’m posting again I am curious what is the opinion of the company(and not only) on the new ” A123Systems batteries ”
they look promising , plus they made an Electric Bike whit them
Do not go to the department of energy for loan assistance. It is not in your best interest. They do not want viable alternatives to gasoline powered engines.
Elon, I’m a small designer who currently holds 2 US design & utility patents. I’m inspired by just about everything - especially the future. I’ve been observing and admiring Tesla for some time now, and after spending much time today, looking over every picture on the site, I have a [possibly silly], but poignant question. There’s a picture of wind turbines up on the site, which stimulated an idea in regards to the vehicle itself. Have you guys pondered the idea of possibly utilizing the air intakes to produce a sort of mini-turbine power boost to the battery/charge, [as well as providing the obvious air intake needed for the engine] just like a wind turbine does? It would produce a small amount of energy at a near-zero yield. Even if it was just to power headlights, or the radio, et al, it could add to the overall distance of the charge. Just a thought….
Also, it would make more sense if your blog was in reverse order - placing the most recent post at the top of the page - not the bottom.
Take care,
Al
Yanko: Tesla does recover energy going down hills etc. it’s called regenerative braking.
Re: A123 batteries, read the Balance blog, www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=24 written 2 years ago.
Yanko: Tesla does recover energy going down hills etc. it’s called regenerative braking.
Re: A123 batteries, read the Balance blog, written September 2 years ago.
In the left column near the top of this page is a list headed “Archives”, click on September 2006, then select “Balance”
Yanko;
And before you suggest it, No, little windmills on the car to capture “free” windpower don’t work either. Jr. H.S. physics, back in my day. Probably not taught till grad school now, tho’.
:P I got the bigger picture now , I gues I was too distracted by other more fun stuff on the site and missed the archuves part hahahaha , thanks Roy
I am not sure how am I gonna get those 60,000 dollars for the model S, but I will find a way of getting them. that is how much i believe in you guys.
Goooo Tesla!!!!
Al, you too need to read the Balance blog (see my previous post). It discusses wind turbines in ducts.
Yanko: “Dynamo” is just an old name for an electric generator, and the Tesla Roadster is already set up to use the motor as a generator, converting momentum into electrical power and slowing the car in the process - that is called “regenerative braking”. Regenerative braking is about 70% efficient, but that is better than the 0% efficiency of regular brakes that waste energy as heat! Adding “dynamos” to the wheels would be like driving with the brakes on all the time, making for poor performance and reducing the range.
Al: You’ve overestimated the amount of power produced by a very small wind turbine, and underestimated the drag it produces. That extra drag uses up more power than the wind turbine could produce, thus reducing the range. The front air intake is only for the air conditioning and cooling for the battery and motor.
Al and Yanko, your ideas have been proposed many times already, unfortunately, those “overunity” designs don’t work.
As a product architect have you seen this article [Future Planes, Cars May Be Made of Buckypaper; Friday, October 17, 2008 12:29 PM; www.newsmax.com/science/tec_buckypaper/2008/10/17/141478.html]? Why only one - 375 volt AC induction air-cooled electric motor with variable frequency drive, at the rear-end SEE >>> BluWav Systems LLC has two in their unit and they have electric motors in the wheel hubs so anyone could make a four wheel drive vehicle or a Hybrid leaving the ICE installed and adding battery power? Help me in Solving Problems For Transportation. To give thought to lowering the cost of the Tesla Roadster? For your opinion on My Project for America, fter you read the article in the news did you consider how this could be made possible for all types of vehicles in transforming them as necessary to become electric vehicles? I mean the Buckypaper use of coarse I believe would have a major influence on this success instead of perhaps other materials, esp. for electric motor conversion transmission plates that are normally made of aluminum cut plates, and batteries if this can be simplified to automotive battery makers of Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Polymer batteries etc.. I am also a member of The Picken’s Plan [push.pickensplan.com/profile/CharlesJones17]. This is where I might suggest that Tesla Roadster makes an effort to get a Natural Gas Fuel Cell option to generate electricity to power surge-charge the battery of that vehicle or a Methane Fuel Cell whichever is tasteful to customers. A new Fuel Cell for Diesel Fuel exists but the U.S. government is suppressing its patent use in America, it would be a good idea for stores to consider in stationary situations where lighting and refrigeration demands for power is evident. Moving Congress to accept the Diesel Fuel Cell would be about as hard as it was for them to accept giving into a $700 Billion Bailout Plan for Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac and then the Banking Rescue that followed.
A little off topic but I think this is important news. researchnews.osu.edu/archive/fullspect.htm There are now two or three solar advances that promise near 100% efficiency. Also of course you have all heard of a breakthrough in Lithium Ion battery research with silicon nano-wires. Although these technologies are just at the basic research level, they are very promising and may be on the market in about 5 years. The market is certainly in major correction stage now, but it will recover, and the future looks very bright indeed. Renewable power will be plentiful and cheap, BEVs will be the norm, range will become a non-issue.
I believe our market problems are brought on by greed and new technology that allows so many instant trades. The market should never have been de-regulated. The de-regulation allowed banks to put depositor’s money at risk. The regulations should be brought back. Also short term trading should be eliminated, if there was a law that did not allow a stock to be sold for 100 days, then all investors would be forced to think long-term. This would bring stability back to the market place.
Charles; I am not all that impressed with the PickensPlan, promoting renewable energy is all well and good, but it doesn’t go into a lot of detail on how to accomplish this, except to say that a lot of taxpayer money should go in this direction. I disagree with the natural gas portion, as I think it is a short-lived stop-gap. Converting the country’s cars to natural gas, and providing an infrastructure to provide sufficient filling stations is certainly doable, and better than what we have now, but not as good as the electric solution and it would become obsolete by the time it was largely implemented. I feel the same way about fuel-cells.
I think this is a brilliant strategic move, as difficult as it is for us Tesla fans to accept it. I applaud you for having patience.
But I think one of the best things about it is the transparency writing about your strategy on this blog allows. It allows a closer connection to the consumer, which is something that will pay dividends in brand loyalty in time.
Garret
Let’s get that battery patent from Cobasys (www.wikipedia.org/cobasys) for pennies on the dollar and get the show on the road.
Have no fear, oil will be up to $200 a barrel once the economy gets cooking again, in about 5 years, and you will be ready.
Why don’t you do something with Mercedes (Smart), a Powered By Tesla electric Smart and use their dealer network?
[Roy wrote on October 26th, 2008 at 10:54 am] You have a rachet of a opinion there but for what I wrote as a member of The Picken’s Plan is more towards a Plan not a systemized reality which replaces what was old capped oil fields with wind turbines as Mr. Picken’s has accomplished and is now considering a Compressed Natural Gas Plan which will endorse automobiles, but I think he is outside the realm of Fuel-Cell use to convert the gas to electricity which is exactly how Tesla needs to develop a PEM which can be a mobile carry around case to convert gas to electricity so to have a emergency power source capability that can store in any vehicle or truck and be brought to a vehicle to be capable of moving that vehicle from one location to another if it were out of electricity. So far nothing of this order has ever come to mind for manufacturers of electric cars and thats a real let down not to have a power source that is remote operational of the vehicle. I mean delivery in a ICE vehicle having CNG a tank to connect the tank and the Tesla together via the recharge case, it then can be recharged anywhere a Tesla is stranded or any electric car that is stranded and that would be a tremendous asset when you need power.
A business that creates it should realize also that a mobile recharger should be considerate of Microbial Hydrogen Gas as a optional use so that a slue water source of Microbes (Bio-Fuel) could be converted to electricity through the cell unit by changing the filtration with a simple use of the other inlet piping instead of the one for CNG. Microbial Hydrogen Gas is a lower quality gas not Hydrogen High Quality which has been filtered of the Microbes that create the fuel. Such a PEM would grow the assets of a company as a accessory product sales item. For emergency vehicle support it could be the ideal solution for stranded situations and instant power on service to provide lighting. A city could have a utility service established with a storage tank of Microbial water and that be the source to create electricity remorely using the PEM unit. Were still talking Hydrogen which is the more expensive gas while CNG beame the least expensive gas because it did not require high storage pressures as did Hydroghen which is why Hydrogen refill stations are being considered that create Hydrogen itself rather than having a Natural Gas Pipeline or a Hydrogen storage tank.
My Point…
Appealing to the remote situation, I also believe Tesla needs to develop a Motor Scooter to sell which could be cheaper than Chinese or Japanese imports and that would be good for America and good for Tesla Motors. Bearing with the speed limits of at least 55mph and 35mph we could see a scooter that has the capability of a add-on recharger that also is a Hydrogen type and have tanks of Hydrogen that are no larger than a fire extinguisher sized tank storage about a liter or no more than 45 pounds pressure (compressed) and that makes the system ready to go. A scooter service would be like a taxi service that a tank of Hydrogen could be delivered to any location even beside a lake or in the mountains or some street corner and this could be self owned so the item could sell as a emergency add-on to a Tesla Auto. It beats having to have a Hand-Cranking Generator to turn to power up a vehicle that needs power to be moved so i guess we are not heading backwards to the past when electric autos were competing with the first gasoline autos and there were Hand-cranks sticking from the front of the radiator on those vehicles, so this idea seems more feasible. Remember to that some folks are sure that solar cell panels of a small wind turbine would work just as well but each have to have another component of either the sun or wind.
Roy:”if there was a law that did not allow a stock to be sold for 100 days, then all investors would be forced to think long-term. This would bring stability back to the market place