|
Dr. Rob Wilder is Manager of the WilderHill Clean Energy Index, the first Index on Wall Street for renewable energy, better energy efficiency, and zero-carbon solutions. He was previously on faculty at U.C. Santa Barbara, and University of Massachusetts; he has been a AAAS/EPA Fellow in Environmental Science & Technology, Fulbright Fellow, and National Academy of Sciences Young Investigator.
With so many great posts already on first impressions driving the Tesla itself, I’ll instead focus on some of my own feelings, hopes & concerns going into the first — and it turns out rather surprising — test drive. Please excuse the fairly personal nature of this post.
Since sending them a check over a year ago, I reckon I’ve ‘sort of’ owned an early Roadster sight unseen. But it still was a tremendous leap of faith for the whole family, for me to have spent so much on a car that I knew so little about.
So when Tesla asked recently if I wanted to actually test-drive a near-production car, I jumped at the chance. First it meant that the car itself was probably for real: at least I wouldn’t need to endure years of teasing by my wife for buying a non-existent car!
Second with keys at last in hand, I was curious about what I’d feel in my heart and head behind the wheel driving this unique, entirely new kind of electric vehicle (EV)? I’d long been captured by the idea of wrapping a beautiful body around thousands of Li-ion cells, AC motor and regenerative braking. But still it was all merely a thought: could it really come together in a great driving car?? Nobody had pulled it off in production so Tesla was trying something pretty special.
Because I’m passionate about fast cars, the emotional feedback was no small matter to me. But before going into the test drive, I’ll share the thorny hurdle from when I first came across this car in concept long ago. I’ll admit straight off the hurdle wasn’t that it was electric. Rather it was the price: a calculation showed this would be not only the most expensive car I’d ever bought but roughly what I’d spent on all the cars before in my life … put together. Yet in my gut I felt an EV put together in this disruptive way absolutely could yield a car unlike any before. More than anything, that caused me to swallow and send a check … it was how much better an electric car could be, by integrating right parts and thinking. But whether Tesla could deliver when so many failed — still made this a leap of faith.
Mindful a Tesla might deliver superior ride, more thrills at speed and be better all-round to boot and profoundly change perceptions—or instead be the most expensive failure I’d ever known, I was going into this first actual test drive with a lot on my mind.
VP10 cruising through the canyon
Walking up to this car the mid-size and curvy proportions do not appear extravagant to my eye from the outside, nor once I first sit at the wheel: happily it is not too showy for my tastes inside or out. I want it to be simply lovely; not over-the-top expensive-looking, nor like an awkward science fair project as some EVs have been in the past. I think its styling hits the nail on the head as elegant while singularly different, maintaining a nice sense of balance. Whew(!) a first key hurdle is cleared; it’s beautiful which is essential. It bears semblance to a lithesome Lotus Elise, or Exige though a bit longer wheelbase. However the Elise is evolving in appearance and a slightly larger Tesla seems more timeless to my eye.
Opening the door the doorsill is very high, making getting in not happy for non-limber me. To their credit Tesla lowered remarkably higher(!) doorsills of an Elise and so met added side-crash tests, but the high doorsill is my biggest complaint on getting in.
Turning the key creates buzzing and whirring but that’s not too disconcerting and soon stops. The seats (near-production versions I think) hold one tightly and I quickly adjust to their feel. Next, on putting the car into gear I see there’s creep programmed in so it feels like a gasoline-car (what I call a ‘gasser’). I lightly brake to prevent inching ahead. The GPS screen on the dash has been described as ridiculously small and I totally agree: with so much free dashboard real estate available, this screen ought to be much bigger.
Next allowing the car to gently move from the curb, I find the steering is pretty stiff at a slow speed: this could take getting used to compared to power-assisted steering. OK, deep breath… will this car meet my hopes when I tap the accelerator? I’m worried for example about a cogging feel, or this car at last giving the sensation of just a very expensive golf cart. I’m hoping for something from Tesla better than any EV I’ve driven. Remarkably then a surprising feeling of abundance flows as I pull away from the curb even at slow speeds. An abundance of available pulling torque, and horsepower, silence, elegant engineering, and careful design is what this car ‘is saying’ to me.
Steering lightens and my hopes for what Tesla could be begin to find some basis in reality… so far so good and I begin to feel some road feedback now behind the wheel. My apprehensions start to melt away. But I still need to push it and not treat this beast like something I’m glad can actually budge — but rather treat this as a real sports car. At my first green light I punch it: what really surprises me is how we pull away quickly with no flat spots in the motor’s power, followed by my mouth feeling funny… I then notice I’m actually grinning. The ‘EV grin’ and it is indeed pretty wild ( -: So despite conventional wisdom, EVs do not need to be slow like regular gassers.
I think about our solar-powered home: we make about 6 kW from sunlight that lands on our roof so no oil accident, terrorism, or huge petroleum company can hamper my drive. With ‘my Tesla’ (I’m beginning to really want this car!) I should get 100+ MPG… heck, better than one million MPG because I don’t need oil in the first place. I see no downside.
Enjoying a ride in EP2 at a previous
event in La Jolla, CA
I now notice the speedometer says I’m going faster than I realize. I drive my gassers at high RPMs and lower gears using engine compression to slow which really telegraphs the speed changes to driver. Lacking any engine sounds and not always hunting for a gear, I now find driving here is a bit like a ‘game’ or Disney ride (remember Rocket Sled?!). A turbine-like sound whirring behind my ears is relatively quiet. Having a motorcycle as a youth and owning many noisy older gassers today, I thought I might miss the instructive revving sounds of fossil fuels furiously converting into mainly waste heat in classic (read: old) British engines, but I find myself liking EV silence quite well It strikes me that my long-term fuel costs should be different too; one expects gasoline to head upwards in cost. Yet for my Tesla the ‘fuel’ costs should amazingly enough, drop down towards zero. The solar panels sitting silently on my roof pay for themselves in 10 years or less; I’ve already had them for 4 years and so reckon in 6 years they’ll have paid for themselves — and thereafter for decades I’ll get green electron fuel for free. Imagine that: free fuel from the sun plus energy independence and a car faster than my brother’s 2008 Porsche Cayman S … wow. The stone-age didn’t end because we ran out of stones; combining elegant solar power with EVs just feels like a solution at hand.
A sports car needs competent brakes: a car is only as fast as its brakes. So I do a series of fast 0-50-0 stops/starts and detect no fade. Importantly, stopping distance is short, feel of the pedal excellent and degree of power assist just right for me. Next up are ascending curves and a chance for 20-50 mph bursts, to push handling closer to where I like to be. I was convinced before this test drive I’d stay near speed limits, not push matters. Yet I kind of like to throw out the rear wheels a bit in my Lotus 7. Mid-range acceleration and handling are my favorites. Tempted, I go into the first curve pushing matters a bit.
I’d note here probably the one trait I seek most in any EV, or gasser is lightness. Adding in lightness creates snowballing benefits like allowing for great handling, and also makes for a better car. Heaviness has an opposite effect. So I am keenly aware of weight .… To briefly illustrate how far cars today drifted into obesity, if my three+ decades-old 1969 Lotus Super 7 weighing about 1,200 lbs were stacked atop an identical one, both would still weigh less than a single Miata, considered among lightest of new cars. Likewise my two older classic Minis (British/Australian Moke convertibles) each weigh about 1,500 lbs. They’re great for a family & fun yet if stacked (as these were actually designed to do!) both would weigh well less than most any single 4-seater today. Thus I’d been encouraged early on to see the high priority Tesla was placing on lowest-possible weight, when I first saw the car’s specs. With an aluminum extrusion frame and by adding in still more lightness such as via Li-ion batteries and carbon fiber body, they clearly were being attentive to every pound and this was pretty impactful upon me.
A lucky new driver takes over after my first test-drive.
So I went into this very first curve attentive to how heavy this Tesla Roadster would feel, and how it might handle. With the batteries alone adding about 950 pounds, I think, truly the pounds being put on elsewhere on this car would be felt and count. Aiming into my first curve at speed, I first hear a heavy thunking sound at the wheels as I drift a bit over ‘Botts’ dots’, those small raised yellow reflective markers in a centerline. Maybe it’s because the car otherwise is so quiet or batteries make it (I am guessing 500+ lbs?) heavier than a roughly 2,000 lb. Exige, yet that thunking is noticeable in my mind. As the car continues to drop into this curve, I hit the accelerator at the apex and boy, does the rush of this Tesla make those problems go away! Unlike a gasser one commands loads of torque in one gear without bogging the engine down or needing to downshift.
It’s so cool; even though I am heading uphill it seems effortless to hug curves at a high cornering limit. It appears so balanced I don’t think my passenger sweats our speed. A fear I’d had driving other EVs, was this one too might feel like it needed to be pushed uphill — I now see that is totally unfounded here. And importantly this Tesla I’m driving isn’t ‘vaporware’ like EVs great in concept only, but that never come to fruition.
Likewise this battery solution here doesn’t require any unobtanium at all (a substance that’s great if only it existed at a viable cost, but doesn’t yet today): it’s 100% real.
I don’t notice its regenerative braking; I imagine it is dialed in not far from the feeling of engine compression slowing a gasser: the difference is instead of wastefully heating brakes and trying to vent heat, the energy captured in slowing this EV extends its range. How stupid a gasser now seems, to expend energy uphill but recapture none back down!
We take curve after curve and it’s a whole lot of fun. A funny thing too is all is happening in 2nd gear only: first gear for 0-60 only is disengaged I think for debugging. Ironically that would give more performance and feel for the 10,000+ RPM range. That also tends to reinforce the notion production delays so far are over the transmission, not batteries. I can see how full torque at 0 RPM (unlike Otto cycle gas engines) means vexing challenges for tranny designers, regardless of a 1 speed or 2-speed transmission. Yet to have robust reliability and durability, this I’d guess needs to be 100% fixed since tranny choice isn’t easily altered after production begins. Unlike a racecar that needs to only work brief periods, this EV and Tesla brand doesn’t need a permanent black eye.
As my drive ends I’m surprised to find I now have much less of a ‘Zen’ attitude about actually getting my Roadster, compared to when I got in at the start of this drive. As others report, my feeling too is one of ‘hey, I want this car as soon as I can get it!’
When first getting in for this test drive, a bicyclist came over and asked if this was an EV Tesla… when I reply ‘Yes’ he said he’d heard they were the most expensive cars ever made! I chuckled (I cannot afford something like that!) but also groan inside since this Tesla still costs less than a German, British or Italian sportscar of like performance.
But this to me now is a crux of the matter: Tesla is changing perceptions about electric cars and importantly creating the future. I thus hope once the Roadster comes out they can move towards producing a more affordable Whitestar EV, then a more affordable EV soon after. This Roadster’s price mystique should soon dissipate as they come out and I look forward to that. But most of all I like the idea we could one day drive great such EVs, many running on clean energy and it’s gassers that will give us all a chuckle.
Posted in the categories: On the Road
Thanks for your post
I hope we’ll get test drive in London soon 
“The stone-age didn’t end because we ran out of stones” Nice one. Thanks for the personal nature of this post.
Thank you for this excellent post and for taking a leap of faith with Tesla.
Dr Wilder’s previous blog entry is here: www.teslamotors.com/blog5/?p=48
I’ve done a fair amount of Elon-needling over the last few months, but he was absolutely right to insist on lowering the door sills and paying the additional cost for the new headlight design. It shifts the Roadster away from the Elise and Europa just enough to make it distinctive, which is what this unique drivetrain deserves.
I can’t wait to see the styling for Whitestar.
Favorite quote, “The stone-age didn’t end because we ran out of stones”. I look forward to the day when oil isn’t worth the effort to pull it out of the ground.
Dr. Wilder:
Thank you so much for an awesome post and thank you for taking the risk of posting something of a personal nature. This is truely what makes this post intrigueing, unique and a fantastic read. I can’t wait for a Whitestar so that I can start making the same difference in the world as you are today - or will as soon as your number is delivered
Great post. I’d liked your reminder very much:
“The stone-age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, and the oil age won’t end because we run out of oil.”
Near Dubai a city will be created, completely based on renewable energy and independent of fossil fuels, based on a huge invest of some 70 billions or so. Gassers will have to be parked outside!
Felix Pius, Switzerland
# “The stone-age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, and the oil age won’t end because we run out of oil.”
Check out the last page of these Tesla presentations:
www.teslamotors.com/display_data/tedpresentation_final.swf
www.teslamotors.com/display_data/pressguild.swf
TEG, thanks for posting that. I’ve been wanting to see these slide shows of Martin’s for a long time. Very interesting and a lot of detail that I hadn’t seen before.
Oil will be worth it for quite a while to be pulled out of the ground. For one, carbon fiber, is made from oil. Tesla Roadsters are made from carbon fiber - and that’s a good thing.
Pharmacy, plastics, vinyl, etc. are made from oil. Oil is here to stay for quite a while, happily.
What will change is that we won’t needlessly “waste” such a precious resource on something mundane as propelling vehicles forward. (IIRC 20%-30% of all oil is used for that purpose at the moment)
Besides, with cars as exiting as the Tesla roadster (hopefully the Whitestar) and as beatiful looking as the Fisker Eco-chic, who will want to drive carbon burning vehicles? The might one day seem as ancient as the Ford model-T seems now. Petroleum burning vehicles will have an important place in history, but that will be about it.
“I don’t notice its regenerative braking”
Wow! Very impressive!
Dr. Rob Wilder, Thanks for posting this. You truly are a great writer. Your article made me feel like I was driving the car myself. Thank you for taking the time to post this.
The car magazines ought to run this article and send Dr. Wilder an author’s fee. It’s very evocative of the experience; no need at all to apologize for being “personal.” That made all the difference. Thanks.
“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.”
Nikola Tesla quote
Where did you find solar panels that pay for themselves in 10 years? The solar power people I talked to wanted $8.23 a watt, my power company charges me .09 a KWH. So it takes me almost 100,000 hours (of sun) to break even. That’s longer than the life of the panels. I’d love to put up solar, have a huge south-facing roof area, but the price needs to drop by about a factor of 10.
Maybe it would help if my state had an incentive program. Maybe it would also help if the solar panel makers didn’t have to pay twice the tax rates of the oil companies.
I’ll probably put up solar anyway, for all the other benefits, but it sure won’t be to get “free” power. It will cost me a lot of money.
To help answer a question above from Thomas, i note 3 important differing circumstances: 1) First, i live in California where we get Rebates on our solar so i actually wrote a check for $18.5K on a $30K solar PV installation (my rebate was for something like $3+/watt back in 2003); and 2) we also also got a $3,000 State Tax Credit (even better than a deduction!) in California on top of that, pushing down my own costs further to just $15.5K; and 3) measured against our (mush) lower PV costs we also pay more here than in your State for our electricity in the first place, further sweetening the deal here and shortening time to payback to 10 years of less (i was being conservative in that figure: i suspect it is even less).
On the one hand, Households here in California don’t capture the low costs of burning pulverized coal; instead we have via higher Utility bills (compared to use of coal). But… on the other hand… we must grapple with cleaning-up our once-very-dirty skies, the quality of environment is also an important concern as a political matter, and ultimately this State here did a “very good thing* by moving us away from coal entirely (even making buying buying dirty coal-fired plant’s products’ from out-of-State an unacceptable alternative); the Governor and State Legislature are looking at ambitious goals in our RPS. Arguably too the California approach will ultimately lead to a cleaner environment & green jobs, imo.
Anyway returning to your useful question, we thus also pay much more here than .09/KWH you cited for our electricity between Noon and 6 pm (as we are on Time of Use metering) — but we instead typically instead Generate(!!) our power in those hours — which means that with our installed Net Metering + Solar power, we’re paid a considerably-sweet retail rate by the Utility for excess juice put back into the grid those hours. I recently saw a credit on my yearly Utility bill (as we have added an additional 3 kW of PV) and i have to say that really warns my heart when i see that!
To sum in California can get to a 10 year payback, although the key Rebates given now are much less than they were when i did this in 2003. We have posted the actual costs for our own system on the web, and also post a real time display of the system’s output/ vs. home energy demand:
wildershares.com/costs.php
wildershares.com/solar.php
Cheers, thanks much,
Rob
Dr. Rob,
Thanks so much for your response. I see there are great differences in the economics of power generation between the east and west coasts. About 2/3 or our power here comes from coal, and 1/3 from nuclear. The result is much cheaper power, but overall, I would prefer to pay a little more for cleaner air.
Time to lobby our politicians for better power choices. It won’ t be easy, the coal lobby is very strong, and convincing people to pay more for power is a tough sell. There’s some talk of increasing nuclear power production. Not as clean as solar or wind, but I see it as at least an improvement over coal.
The Tesla is giving me a big incentive to go solar, even with the weak incentives we have here. The idea of “driving on sunshine” is so exciting!
Thanks again for you terrific post.
Thomas J.
I have been waiting a long time for a “car guy” to drive a Telsa and tell about it. Motor Trend’s brief article was very disappointing. They chose to speculate on transmission problems and corporate issues leaving me wanting some actual driving stats.
Besides, drag racers have been dealing with high torque launches and two speed transmissions. I am hopeful that Telsa will find a durable two-speed transmission and not compromise their original performance goals.
Thank you for sharing your driving experience. It helps me believe that one day I will be able to walk away from my corvette and not miss it…too much.
A total of $1.8 million was appropriated and directed toward vehicle incentive rebates to promote the use and production of alternative fuel vehicles in CA. Rebates of up to $5,000 are available for consumers who purchase or lease new eligible alternative fuel vehicles between May 24, 2007 and March 31, 2009 or until funding runs out. www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr022208.htm
I am curious, how many kilowatt hours does it take to fully charge a Tesla.
The cost per charge would be equal to [total kilowatt hours need per full charge]*[$/kilowatt hour].
Each kilowatt hour currently costs about 10 cents.
cost per charge/220 miles = marginal cost per mile driven. From this we could calculate life cycle average cost per mile driven (based on wear and tear, reduced efficiency over time, repair bills, and battery replacement every five years.)
I am trying to calculate these numbers. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Firstly congratulations for everyone involved with electric cars. Having been “playing ” with electrics for over 50 years I would like to put in my cents worth.
It is great that the 2 speed has been dropped for single drive . Two speed or or more will be more trouble than it is worth. Done correctly and I am sure it is
a “gear box ” is not required. Forget the ego what is wrong with 5,6,7, seconds to 60 miles an hour. Once had a TR3 and I could run faster than it over 50 yards. Forget the single or twin motor. What is logical and being developed is a motor in the wheels. Two wheels or four. That is the future. All power and braking requirements will be in the hub, making construction less difficult. Batteries, look at CSRO new battery from Australia its a whiz..
Charging of batteries, I see Atomic power plus solar becoming main stream in the future . We need large amount of base power for desal. plants and of course for charging electic cars.
David.
Just calculated some data on the Tesla Roadster:
www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/well_to_wheel.php
Joule = 2.7778 × 10−7 kilowatt-hour
MJ = 2.7778 × 10−1 kilowatt-hour
1 mile = 1.609344 kilometers
The Tesla roadster generates 1.14 km/MJ or 0.695935735305814 miles/MJ or 2.5053486043121 miles/kilowatt hour
Joule = 2.7778 × 10^−7 kilowatt-hour
MJ = 2.7778 × 10^−1 kilowatt-hour
1 mile = 1.609344 kilometers
The Tesla roadster generates 1.14 km/MJ or 0.695935735305814 miles/MJ or 2.5053486043121 miles/kilowatt hour
= about 2.5 miles per killowatt hour (marginal rather than life cycle average cost)
= about 40 miles per dollar marginal at current electricity prices of 10 cents per kilowatt hour (life cycle cost per mile is much higher)
Summary, electric vehicles are close to being more economical than fuel based vehicles, at current electricity prices. This suggests that non-electricity energy use might be gradually be substituted by electricity based energy over the medium to long run.
Because the majority of global oil use is for transportation, this will likely place a long term put option on the price of oil.
I would be interested in everyone’s comments. Are my calculations accurate?
# anand wrote on February 23rd, 2008 at 4:43 pm
## I am curious, how many kilowatt hours does it take to fully charge a Tesla.
I think somewhere between 58 and 75 kWh depending on which figures turn out to be correct.
It may also depend on how much cooling the car has to do when charging. (based on ambient temperature, current of charging circuit, etc.)
Tesla home page says “less than $0.02 per mile” (it used to say $0.01, but they revised it based on changes to estimated range)
I have heard various values mentioned such as $3 per charge or $4 per charge.
## The cost per charge would be equal to [total kilowatt hours need per full charge]*[$/kilowatt hour].
If it was 75kWh * $0.10 then you would get $7.50 per charge, but Tesla typically quotes much less.
Part of this difference is that there is a PG&E “E9″ EV charging rate that can give you as low as $0.05/kWh for off-peak night time charging.
If you can get that rate, and coordinate charging at the right time then you could be down under $4/charge.
## Each kilowatt hour currently costs about 10 cents.
Perhaps on average… But Tesla uses the “more optimal” figure of $0.05/kWh
## cost per charge/220 miles = marginal cost per mile driven.
Using $0.05/kWh you could get about $0.016 per mile. If you just rounded up to $0.02 (if for instance you couldn’t always charge at $0.05/kWh) then it may be a bit more realistic.
I think any of those figures work out to be way less expensive than any other automotive energy source.
Thanks TEG. Using 75 kilowatt hours per charge, and 220 miles per charge, we can calculate 2.9 miles per kilowatt hour . . . or about 3.5 cents per mile using 10 cents per kilowatt hour.
Note that FSLR claims that its CdTe Thin film modules produce kilowatt hours at 15 cents per kilowatt hour on a life cycle cost basis.
If each battery costs $5,000 and each battery runs 50,000 miles (I know the website says 5 years and 100,000 miles), then the battery lifecycle cost is about 10 cents a mile. If each 50,000 miles costs another $3,000 in repair bills (or $750 in costs every year and 12,000 miles), we obtain 16 cents (battery + maintenance + repair) + 3.5 cents (marginal cost per electricity charg) = 20 cents per mile excluding the cost of the vehicle.
Depreciating the vehicle over 150,000 miles (3 batteries per vehicle) and using a net price point of $100,000, the car costs 67 cents per mile.
Including the cost of operating the vehicle, the life cycle cost is about 87 cents per mile. I know that I was over conservative. Am I in the right ballpark?
anand, you lost me. $5000 per battery? 50K mile lifespan? Where did you get those values?!
I suppose if you said 10K mile/year (which is fairly typical) and a 5 year calendar lifespan on the battery pack you could project 50K miles. Hopefully owners like the car enough to drive it a lot more and get 100K miles+ out of the pack before they need a new one.
anand: You’re not in the ballpark, you went way over to the other side of town! First off, the 75 Kwh recharge figure is an absolute worst case scenario, with the battery totally drained and hot weather forcing exetensive use of battery pack cooling. Remember, most recharging will take place late at night. More typical would be 60 Kwh of recharging per 220 miles, leading to a 2,7 cent per mile charge at 10 cents per Kwh. BTW, most of the time the battery will only be partially drained, and only need a partial recharge.
$750 per year in repairs and maintenance is highly unlikely, as the car does not need oil changes, tune ups, spark plugs, or air filters. The motor doesn’t have to deal with explosions of fuel or high temps, and has far fewer moving parts thus less wear. Even the brakes will last much longer and require less maintenance, due to regenerative braking. Maintenance would be an occasional tire change, perhaps lubing a few joints, and car washes.
You didn’t take into consideration the resale value after 150,000 miles, but you also didn’t add in insurance and licensing fees. Needless to say, if you did the same lifecycle cost analysis of similar performing gas engine cars, the cost per mile would be higher - much higher if oil prices continue to climb.
One thing I wanted to mention here is that, in my opinion, you are going to WANT to replace the battery every 5 years (or sooner) because capacity (as a function of size) and power usage of batteries grows at an alarming rate. Even if Tesla does not change the basis of their battery (which they might, if a more efficient or cost-effective solution presents itself), I can guarantee better range and/or smaller size (= faster car). In addition, as large battery tech takes hold, production and cost should only get cheaper.
Lancelac’s point is exactly right, which is why I went with 50,000 miles per battery. The storage capability of batteries by weight and volume increases about 8 to 10 % annually.
The quality of future electric vehicles is also likely to improve dramatically over 150,000 miles, which is why I assumed no terminal value (in fact the terminal value is likely to be a small positive.)
Again, I did not compute the cost per mile for gas based sports cars. Their cost per mile would be similar, perhaps even higher.
Regarding driving 20,000 miles a year instead of 10,000 miles . . . note that the vehicle cannot YET be easily recharged anywhere on the go (you need to find an open power socket and 3 hours.) Therefore, most people are likely to restrict themselves to local driving with a Tesla in the short run.
Finally on repair costs, I doubt their will be much in the first 50,000 miles. I am assuming $9,000 in repair costs over the life of the vehicle, concentrated in the out years.
Thanks for everyone’s help. It looks like Tesla is starting a trend:
www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/01/13/074940.html
I wonder if Tesla ever considers the plug in hybrid route?
2 items that break the above calculations all to shreds:
Stanford (and Toshiba) have come out with new nano-tube designs for lithium batteries that increase the charge capacity by 10X, which would massively reduce the battery pack costs and replacement frequency.
and
Within a few years, the Focus Fusion ( www.focusfusion.org ) project will be producing prototypes and then production versions of its power generator which puts out electricity at $0.001 / kwh ( 0.1 cents / kwh ). Oil, solar, wind, bio, coal, etc. aren’t even in the same state, much less the same ballpark.
P.S. Toshiba reports that the batteries can be charged up to 60X faster. So substitute “minutes” for “hours” in the above calculations.
Please, please keep in mind the BEST solution can still be scooped up by big carbon (a.k.a., oil companies). If big carbon came up to you with $XXX million (put your own numbers there) to buy your incredible battery patent, would you sell it to them?? It’s happened before….
No, I don’t think Stanford U. or Toshiba are about to sell. Big Carbon is burnt toast.
Maybe that’s why we see stories like www.ameinfo.com/144357.html “Abu Dhabi commits $15bn to alternative energy, clean technology” … The people that control the world’s energy are anything but stupid, they can see the Writing on the Wall and are busy getting ready to be in the lead when the changeover from an oil-based economy starts to happen.
Tesla Motors seems to be more the ones doing the writing on the wall than just seeing that it’s there.
There’s a hybrid competitor to Whitestar out, called XH-150 (the 150 refers to minimum est. mileage). It’s a 4-passenger SUV, using ultra-capacitors to buffer a lithium battery bank. The site is a bit vague on some points, including near-term availability, though. www.afstrinity.com/press-images.htm
I am wondering if and when the Tesla cars will be available for purchase here in the UK, especially when one considers that they are currently manufactured here. What are your plans for dealers/service facilities in the UK?
good job i’m impressed being a regular american middle class consumer. you’ve conquered mileage issues and charging times now your next problem. make it affordable to the middle class that really needs it to commute i think that is your next step and also making a passenger one. gas prices is putting a stranglehold on our economy if i seen an affordable one available to me in texas i’d buy it in a heartbeat. your vehicle is the beggining solution to our oil dependancy and outrageous gas prices, even if gas does go down it still cant compete with 1 cent per mile. your biggest challenge i see is affordability to the average consumer; availability and localized service centers.
Performance comment at the end of the writeup - on this side of things, the upcoming Nissan GT-R is going to make the price/performance comparisons very interesting at 0-60 in 3.5 seconds for a $70K 2+2 seater.
Understood it’s not EV, but also understand that EV is not 100% of the purchasing decision, I ccould get a golf cart without waiting.
Regarding the upcoming Nissan GT-R that Brian noted, I too am a fan of Japanese sports cars on both value-for-dollar and keen performance metrics; we loved a Honda CRX that my wife had and i’ve had a VTEC-engined (Honda) car for that very reason. i thus noted above (as a tip of the hat) that “… this Tesla still costs less than a German, British or Italian sportscar of like performance” [I did not put in Japanese there, by intent] : - )
But it has to be said too I am not a good enough driver to consistently get fastest 0-60 times quoted in Car Mags for gassers like a GT-R: those often require excellent shifting (that can be flubbed). By contrast a Tesla requires one simply mash down the right side pedal to the floor– and there’s no skill in that; even i could do it time and again! Moreover my interests are mostly in mid-range (such as around 20-50 MPH) kind of acceleration and that is roughly where Tesla is I believe fastest of all (better I reckon than GT-R, Porsche, Ferrari etc) and again does not require shifting… ever.
Moreover it’s my guess that when i replace the battery pack in say 5 to 10 years’ time, future batteries might be considerably lighter than the 950 lbs. today–while possibly packing more kWh to boot. Once thermal runaway is addressed etc in future, then the car can move towards lightness that only improves its performance(!) and in every regard–with maybe less or no cooling needed in the Li-ion battery package too. in other words my car in 5 to 10 years might be faster by a non-negligible degree than it is even today; this characteristic is something that i reckon no gasser can match.
None of this intended as disrespect since i think highly of the Skyline, GT-R (and their work with Renault on EVs) etc. I am just instead delighted that I’ll have the alternative of a most spiffy and lovely car, one that’s not slow like most gassers, and indeed that needs no gas at all, that can be refueled by clean sunlight that lands on my rooftop, that makes no pollution — and that helps pay-off sooner my home’s solar PV electricity to boot so i needn’t pay not only for gasoline to get around, nor the electric power that runs my family’s home. Viva la difference… and hooray for such excellent choices!
Thanks much,
Rob
First and foremost, I am a fan. I am 100% for what this car stands for and hope to have one in the future. My thought is - as far as being cost effective, the cost to run the auto is impressive and the emmisons it does not spit out are equally impressive. I have heard the replacement battery is $35K at around 100K miles. With the cost of the car at around 100K and 35K each 100K miles, the cost to actually run the car exceeds a gasonline motor according to my findings. Is this correct and if not, what have I missed? Again, I am a fan but the battery costs is something that I wanted to have a more clear understanding of. If my figures are correct, the costs is .2 per mile and $3500 average cost per year for the battery over 10 years. That comes to $292/month in built in costs over 10 years to replace the batter plus wear and tear over that same 10 year period. I realize and am excited about the intent of this car from all sides and think its a great thing. The above question would not necessarly steer my away from a pruchase, but an honest question. Thanks
Jeff
I believe that Jeff above presents a reasonable & honest question: is the Roadster ‘cost effective’ given expectedly dear battery replacements costs? For myself, i’d answer in 3 parts.
First i think we need to look at this a different way: it would be absolutely remarkable if this first high-performance battery electric vehicle were less costly out of the gate, than an economy-gasser (say a nice two seat Miata for instance) given that the Otto cycle internal combustion engine (ICE) has had well over a century’s head-start bringing down costs.
Secondly, the scope for bringing down battery costs for electric cars — such as by building Li-Ion cells at scale is simply enormous. However, that cannot begin until someone starts the ball rolling and builds a Li-Ion production EVs to show it’s indeed possible. Hard to believe how differently people thought about what was even possible on EVs before the T-Zero, and then notably Tesla; this shows how far we’ve come in a very brief time.
Doubtless the first few cars present much higher price than a Miata — but they will be of fundamental importance in changing perceptions and so creating the future. That is a catalyst, that’s leverage and that’s exactly what Tesla is doing imo: rather than predict the future, they are creating it. Mind you, i note my own Tesla Roadster will cost me more than every car i’ve owned - lumping the costs of my 1962 MGA Mk II, my 1959 Austin Healey 3000, Honda CRX, Honda VX, 1969 Lotus 7, two Mini Mokes, etc - but it still feels to me absolutely fantastic to be playing some very small, tiny role helping advance that change by simply getting a Roadster. Frankly it is nothing like (what i imagine is the feeling of) plumping down $$ for a say a $100K high-performance gasser … but I feel as if I am part of something greater than myself, and i’m committed to (solar) EVs as a net Good.
Thus Li-Ion cells are each dear of cost today. But… what about 5 years from today… or 10 with mass production ramping EVs & PHEVs in large numbers? Out back here is our chicken coop: i like to joke the first egg i ate from it cost me $1,500 (it’s a luxury coop we built ! chickens were only $30 each); but then the second egg I ate halved the cost of that coop with each egg costing $750, my third yummy egg was then $500/egg and so forth… now that i have eaten hundreds of eggs, the costs are driven downwards and benefits are snowballing to boot (good organic fertilizer for the fruit trees, fun for the kids, family pets etc).
Back to cars (a fun topic for me!), today’s ICE is typically based around highly mature (on its way out?) technology where great engineers must tinker around edges in order to bring down costs any further (or improve performance much beyond roughly 20% efficiency). Yes, marginal gains such as combining gas and diesel traits are possible yet that’s about the most we can hope for… with paltry gains on the road. Sure a gas engine produces power at very little cost (say maybe $20/kW) that is hard for EVs to initially beat. The fact is an ICE is only a little over 20% efficient and produces mainly waste heat, makes lots of pollution, and is utterly dependent on rock oil (or cellulosic biofuels maybe at best) which means it frankly can’t go 10 feet without a specific liquid (most likely fossil) fuel in its tank. That did not vex us much for over a century, since gas was abundant, cheap and pollution didn’t matter. But arguably the global energy portrait is now changing… and not in Big Oil’s favor…
Admittedly the battery in an EV is still-very-expensive. And yet… electrons that might charge it can come from renewables solar, wind, geothermal, small-hydro etc etc since electricity doesn’t care how it is produced; this applies as well for PHEV’s that can be also plugged in at night leveling grid demand. Again, yes, batteries are still expensive… but until we take the first step and begin to build cars in number, the costs will not come down.
I saw today where Mercedes announced they too will embrace Li-ion; like GM with Bob Lutz spearheading the Volt (unthinkable only five years ago) with a tip of the hat to Tesla for pushing it down this path, tiny Tesla is now moving an enormous industry towards positive change. I come back again to the core point, which is that these first batteries are un-economical–and yet look how the first few electric cars can start to change the world.
My third and last point is that this Tesla is not a Miata: forget for a moment the Tesla Roadster is electric at all. Compare this car that’s capable of 0-60 in around 4 seconds (tranny 1.5), with carbon fiber body (not many cars under $500,000 have that!) and better mid-range acceleration than maybe ANY car, and this Tesla seems a downright bargain. Cars of such comparable performance aren’t judged against a Miata either; and even with costs of replacing the battery pack, it still comes in far below the costs of a Ferrari to begin with (and rebuilding the engine of a Ferrari at some point only adds to that cost; dunno the life of the Tesla pack: it will have both calendar and duty cycle limits to get to just 80% capacity).
I’d sum up this overly long post by saying just that to begin driving down costs of electric vehicles, we must begin somewhere ramping battery numbers. We mustn’t let perfection become the enemy of the excellent, and I’m proud of what Tesla is doing in starting a very important ball rolling. I hope that this helps explain why this car is absolutely in my view a compelling vision … yes, rather than being cost-effective today, it helps makes EVs cost-effective tomorrow and putting more EVs on the road is what it is about ( - :
It’s a fantastic breakthrough but unfortunately only destined for the happy few.
Why not use this great technology for small cars at affordable prices and make electric cars popular on a massive scale ?
Very well addressed answer indeed.
If I can afford this car right now and be a part of the driving force to move us from the “oil age” to say “electric age” so that my children and their children will be able to live in a cleaner planet and afford cheaper high performance electric sport cars, there is no reason why I wouldn’t buy this roadster.
I think we would not be where we are today if those who made the decision to move away from the stone age saw the short-term difficulty of obtaining iron from iron ore deposit as a deterrence for using iron. Of course, once they started using iron, they also started to find cheaper, more effective ways to obtain the material, and a whole new world of possibilities opened up!
Check out the brilliant quote of Nikola Tesla in a post above. The present is the achievement of our ancestors; as for the future, where we really work for, will be ours!
Go Tesla!
Jenette;
When you do a search for “Electric Vehicles, Full Function” on that site, the only car that qualifies is the Roadster.
www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp?vehicletypeid=15
F.J.;
your question has been answered in the background info about TeslaMotors. In brief, it is that the “great technology” didn’t fall free out of the sky. With development investment requirements identical for a low or high-profit-margin car, the payback is quicker for the high-margin car, which then leverages the plant and resources to go lower. In the performance car, you also get to do everything RIGHT, without compromise up front. This quality then spawns quantity downstream. ICE companies make race cars and other advanced one-off cars for the same reason.
I don’t know the actual figures, but hypothetical here: $40K gross margin on the Roadster requires about 3,000 sales to recover costs. $5K gross margin on a cheap car requires 24,000 sales, with correspondingly heavier inventory costs up front.
The Japanese went the opposite direction with their car industry, as did the Koreans: cheap low-quality cars to start, and incremental improvements. They had the deep pockets to pull it off, and that’s what you need.
Thank you for your beautiful design: I was trained at the Art Center School of Design early 50’s, and have worked as an engineer in the nuclar energy production field during the 70″s. at that time I copy rited my design for a power cell. that would extend the distance and also give way to more functional designs of vehicles that will meet the demands of society today. we need vehicles of all types to be energy efficient, and have the capability to travel across the country with out refueling or charging. My design may last for 10 to 15 years before replacing, and during that time it will not need a charge.
Are you saying that you put a nuclear reactor in the car so that you don’t need to charge it for 15 years?
I don’t know if I’d feel comfortable carrying around a reactor in the trunk, LOL. You better hope you don’t get into an accident, or you can melt away along with the car.
Reasy;
Yeah, it astonishes me to see an engineer suggest you can draw power from a battery pack for 15 years without replacing it. IMO, all these “free energy” ideas are based on sloppy arithmetic. Or magic unobtainium which draws power from the Void.
I strongly believe that by using tampered fibreglass to better focus the sun’s rays , the solar panels that could be installed on the rear boot can slowly power up a battery if the technology allows.
“Does this mean that we can leave the car in the Sun & look at the power meter on the Car?”
I’m saying that there’s a possibility , however we don’t see any solar powered mobile phones yet because our phones are not exposed to sunlight most of the time.
Thank, (I’m from a Small Clean country from Singapore)
Thanks goes out to you and the others for purchasing one of these Tesla Roadsters! Generations to come will thank you as well for helping make a better future for them!
congradulations: you hit them right between the eyes and they still cant see it. go for it!
would like to purchase one share of stock dated 3/17/08?
No problem, Otto; each share costs $1,000,000. Just send it along to me in small, unmarked bills and I’ll mail your certificate sometime after I receive it.
:D
I just elaborated a bit from the feel blog,
Have you ever thought of using ultracapacitors like the Zenn Car www.zenncars.com. These ultra capacitors uses nano carbon tube technology which is really efficient and ultra lite. It better than chemical batteries. 100 % reusable and lifetime guarantee. These ultra capacitors are extremely affordable and no worries of disposal. It just like chucking coal back into the ground. Is actually better for the environment. Plus, the regulator on the capacitors can be regulated to any power that is needed at an instant. I would love to see the Tesla motor run from an ultra capacitor. I believe Nicola Tesla would have loved it this way. It is almost the same design as his Tesla loop.
One more thing about the ultra capacitors, you can have bigger stationary ultra capacitor (if you want), to instantly charge up your car in minutes or even seconds (if you want a lightning strike to charge your car). Or you can take it the hourly way which is just plug it into an AC adaptor. Waiting for charge is up to your charger. All the new electric stations at parking lots at work could have this instant charge or hourly. Employers can have give access to the employees to this charging station or just have one at home. Or have these instant charging stations all around town at a small fee. Hey… what a way to design infrastructure. If you have these instant charging stations for races, just think how far the ultra capacitors will go.
Or even better yet, natural electrical charging with RF signals as you drive along. It may be small amounts at a time, but I don’t think anyone drives 24 hours a day. Small amounts of charge can be placed back into your systems. Tesla’s vision was to have everything powered wireless. These stations can have a RF signal also along the road way. Almost every major roadway has lights ones that don’t you have 4 hours to reach a station.
It would be great to see these carbon tubes flexible in the near future, thus the capacitor can formed and shaped, back seats anyone. But as soon as you add flexibiliy, the life of the product degrades structurally due to fatigue.
So I’ve put down the $5,000 deposit and expect to soon hear from my sales guy about increasing my commitment to the next level.
Before I decide, here’s my little problem–I have no place to plug the sucker in.
I live in a Chicago 6-flat, with no garage or access to an electrical outlet. Running an extension cord from the building to the street isn’t going to work. I do park outside in a lot at a nearby school, so I’m hoping that I can somehow persuade the school officials to let me plug in somewhere. They’re pretty conservative, so I’d like to get all my facts together before I propose to them what they will consider a crazy idea.
Obviously I’ll offer to pay for running a line to the outside wall (I’ll have to decide if this is the location I want to install the home charging system). They probably will be concerned about the cost of charging the car, and I don’t want to pay more than necessary, so I’d like to install a meter so that we really know how many KWHr I’m using.
Can anyone advise on how to technically make this happen? Or should I move…thanks.
Don,
Do you expect to do a lot of driving every day? If you’re not going to be driving more than about 20 miles per day, you can probably get by with 120v charging. If so, my first suggestion would be that you do a walk around your neighborhood and look carefully for outside electrical outlets in convenient locations. You’d be surprised how many outdoor 120v outlets there are for christmas tree lights or tools. If you do locate one, you could check with the owner to see if you could get permission to plug in. If the cost of electricity becomes an issue, you could try to convince the owner that 15 Amps X 120 Volts = 1.8 kWatt X 8 hours = 14 kWh per day is the most you could draw. At $0.10 per kWH(or whatever the prevailing Chicago rate is), the most you could draw would be $1.50 per day so you could offer something around that amount. If unconvinced, Watts Up (www.wattsupmeters.com) makes a simple power meter you could use to prove the point. If this doesn’t work and you end up having to install a charger somewhere yourself, you can always work on installing the Tesla charger or, Milbank (milbankmfg.com) makes outdoor electrical outlet boxes for RV sites, some models of which include watt-hour meters.
Be creative. Are there city parks around? Whole Foods or health foods markets? Trader Joes? Starbucks (I heard that Starbucks is looking to put EV chargers in to a lot of their stores for the green image). Electrical Supply stores? Environmentally or open-minded restaurants with parking (parking your $100K super car in front isn’t exactly going to hurt their image)? I’ve heard that a building gets LEEDS points for installing public chargers. There are lots of angles, any of which may work. Once the cars start to show up on the road, it should get to be easier to convince public facilities to put in chargers.
Good luck with your plans to buy this great car.
Don,
Are you paying that school for the parking space? If so, you’ve already got a line of communication, and the notion of getting a little extra income by reselling electricity should appeal to them, especially if you offer to cover most or all the cost of the outlet installation. It could also give the school some good publicity, and an object lesson for the students about electric cars.
If you are parking there without paying and without permission, it’s going to be really really difficult to persuade those school officials to also offer an outlet!
The optimum electrical outlet for Tesla Roadster recharging is 240 volts 70 amps, but the charger will work with lower amperage and lower voltage if needed - it just takes longer to charge.
I just watched “Who Killed The Electric Car” and was interested in Tesla as a company. Was so happy to see they are moving forward with production.
I read that stock will be available later in 2008/early 2009. Does anyone know more about this or is it expected to be announced in their newletter? Any info on buying Tesla stock would be appreciated!
i need a ac motor between 2 to 3 kw & input voltage=380 to400v& speed=12000rpm
Re—charging in the city (Chicago) without owning a garage. Thanks to Earl and CM for their helpful replies. Yes, I do pay $169/month for a non-dedicated spot (life in the big city). When I go to the office (as seldom as I can get away with), it’s almost 60 miles roundtrip (so I’ll probably need a discussion with the office building owner for a charging setup there as well). I’ll also have to start lobbying the City of Chicago for charging stations at O’Hare (my car’s “third place”).
Given that the neighborhood is very urban (e.g., no strip malls with off-street parking) I think the best option is to work with the school. They haven’t proven to be very progressive in the past, but I’ll give it a shot.
Thanks again for the advice.
A sincere congratulations on overcoming the Leno Factor. It seems you’ve done the impossible. Jay has been deriding the technology with such zeal for so long, one never would have thought he’d be capable of change. Sorry Jay….you were wrong all these years to slander us. Well done Tesla.
When will Tesla Motors break ground on the Albuquerque New Mexico facility?
I think that most of us (present and future customers) would be very interested to hear whether there are any discussions involving our political leaders on incentives, such as tax credits, for the purchase of the Tesla roadster or other electric vehicles. It is difficult to imagine making the change in the world environment to achieve the sustainability that we ultimately seek without this discourse and public discussion. I fear that the oil and automotive industry is too powerful at present, and may seek ways to undermine the success of new technologies and companies such as Tesla.
Geez, hope my comment isn’t lost in this plethora of comments.
I’d love to hear in a future blog post what you are doing with the landmark improvements to solar technology.
(www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070719011151.htm)
With this new type of technology, it could easily be applied as a paint coat and since it doesn’t require a particular angle to be effective it might be a significant boost in energy and range. Or one would imagine, at least.
I’m sure you have all punched the numbers, but I’m curious to hear what this all means to this industry and Tesla’s grand plan.
Keep up the good work. I’ll be waiting for the economy model. Hopefully my Corolla will hold out that long
I just finished watching Iron Man and realized that the Tesla was in the garage when the main character was making his suit. Did anyone else see this? I thought it was cool! I really want one of these Tesla roadster man!
Don:
Write a letter to your neighbours, asking to rent a garage (even underground parking), and state requriements for power. Distribute copies of the letter to all who have garages within your desired walking distance. Much better if you can find an indoor solution.
Does anyone know what basic Lithium-ion cell that Tesla Motors is using for the Roadster battery pack? CNN.com says they use over 6K of these cells….
Thanks to Dr. Wilder for his fine test drive prose. Thanks to the visionaries who are working to make where we live a better place. Thanks also to those who have the money to make this Tesla and other vehicles become a reality. I am looking forward to the day when I can ‘afford’ a car like the Tesla–more than likely the sedan version ten years from today. I am ‘over’ Big Carbon, the polution and the other costs associated with our current transportation modes. So to all who are making this become our future. SS
Adam:
Tesla says that they are commodity 18650 series batteries made in Japan. They do not say from which company, but suggest that they will buy from any company that meets their specs. such as www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_LiIon_CGR18650AF.pdf from Panasonic.
Are silent electric cars a danger to pedestrians?
This is a different topic but here is a link to a CNN story about a child who did not hear a Prius in all electric silent mode.
www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/07/huppert.boy.hit.with.hybrid.kare
He rode his bike in front of the car and was hit. Fortunately the child did not sustain serious injury. However this illustrates how children or blind people may not hear a silent electric car and thus may walk in front of it.
This problem may be compounded in an electric sports car such as the Tesla Roadster. This is because the owners of these cars may choose to demonstrate the acceleration in a parking lot or side street. These are places where children can dart in front of the car.
If a tragic accident were to occur there might be a lawsuit. A jury could find that the manufacturer knowingly created a hazard by producing a silent car and marketing it as a fun and capable car to accelerate. The jury could then find the manufacturer partly responsible for an accident and find a multi million dollar award against the manufacturer.
This risk could perhaps be ameliorated if a sound emission device were installed by the manufacturer. The driver would have the option of setting the car to emit sound to the outside world such as beeps, hums, or simulated engine sound. These sounds could come on automatically or be voluntarily activated by the driver. These sounds could be used all the time or only at low speeds or only shortly after startup. The sounds would be less needed on a highway.
I believe this issue should be discussed by the electric car advocacy community. Our contacts working inside companies building electric cars should be made aware of this issue if they are not already.
Tragic accidents and high publicity lawsuits could hamper adoption of electric cars. A sound emission feature on cars could prevent these problems.
I give your company credit for daring to do what all the major manufacturers have avoided for years. I have read your business model and although I understand the reasoning for working from the sport /luxury down I believe the market for an affordable all electric sedan is absolutely starved. I am certain if this product is the first to market you will absolutely not be able to make them fast enough. Why would anyone drive a fossil fueled car for their daily driving ever again. I know I would not. Hopefully you will show more of that daring and provide a low cost all electric vehicle as fast as possible. The time is now. Please make it happen.
About the sound: yes, little hypebolic dishes focusing a warning noise ahead and to the right would be inaudible inside, or in other directions. Or, for real hi-tech, ultrasonic beams overlapping in a strip to the right side, with the beat frequencies audible only to those in the exact path. (Already in military dev’t. Can pick one person in a crowd and whisper in his ear from hundreds of yards away, or deafen him without the person standing beside him hearing a thing! Or make spooky voices from literally inside his skull — “This is the CIA. Your brain cells are belong to us!” )
:D
Er, “hyperbolic”, of course. ;-O
I also wanted to comment that I have great hope for Tesla to bring a “car for the masses”. If we all keep asking, perhaps it will inspire your R&D to get to work on it. I know a utility vehicle isn’t sexy but it’s needed. We live on a farm and have to drive 40 miles round trip for activities, groceries and supplies (sometimes we have to travel 100 miles round trip). Unfortunately, there is no mass transit out here and there never will be. I have a dream that we can have a solar panel on our roof that would charge our electric car during the day so it would be ready for all the evening activities and we would truly be “off the grid”. No, I am not a big believer in burning corn for fuel.
Please do consider and move forward on a car for the rest of us.
Thank you!