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A critical part of the sales, marketing, and service function at Tesla Motors is to help inform product development and engineering decisions based on a customer perspective, a part of what we call “product marketing.” When validation prototype 10 (VP10) was built, one of the things we planned to use it for was to put a lot of miles on the car and provide marketing feedback to engineering teams for final refinements or validation. It also provides us the ability to identify areas for improvements in future model years. We have been putting VP10 through its paces in the beautiful hills near our headquarters on the famous Skyline Boulevard. When Aaron Platshon (product marketing) and I first took one of the Validation Prototype cars from Alice’s Restaurant out to the beach just south of Half Moon Bay, we had one of those funny moments when we had to remember we were actually “at work.”
Zak Edson (member services) and I got to talking about these marketing drives and we decided to invite some customers to participate in this ongoing testing program. VP10 is still an engineering car and not dedicated to marketing use, so we aren’t yet prepared to offer test drives broadly. Regardless, we thought putting some of our early customers behind the wheel to get their feedback would serve a couple of important purposes.
For one, we could get valuable feedback from varied perspectives. Our customers are a diverse bunch, and it is important that we don’t let our personal biases drive our feedback too much (I drive an EVO 9 rally rocket and Zak drives a 300C SRT-8 monster sedan).
Another important goal is for these drivers to share their experiences and observations with other customers and the public. Some of our customers have agreed to share their experiences on the Owners Forum, a private area for people who already have reserved a Tesla Roadster, and some have agreed to write articles for our blog. For those who are willing to share for the blogs, I will publish their experiences unedited here, in their own words. In certain cases, where appropriate, I will add color commentary in [brackets]. I hope you enjoy these experiences – I will continue to post them occasionally in groups of three or four. Here are the first three…
Stephen Casner
Stephen Casner with Zak in the Roadster;
That’s Darryl’s “rally rocket” in the background
Oh boy, oh boy! As part of the durability testing of the Validation Prototypes, the Tesla Motors marketing crew decided to collect feedback from a few customer drivers to get a broader perspective than provided by the “regular” test drivers. Since my wife, Karen, and I have had several years of experience with earlier production electric vehicles and we have a relatively low Signature 100 number, we were among the lucky few.
My one-line summary? I’ll echo what Martin (Tesla Motors founder Martin Eberhard) said in a recent letter to customers: “You are going to love this car.” But since it will be a few months yet before even those of us with low numbers get to drive our own cars, I’ll try to convey what the drive was like in a bit more detail.
Winding Road
The designated test course traversed the two-lane Highway 84 on the ocean side of the coastal mountain range west of Tesla Motors headquarters. That meant plenty of twists and turns, but no 0-60 mph slingshots. We met Zak Edson, Darryl Siry, and Aaron Platshon, at Alice’s Restaurant where the highway crests in Sky Londa, Calif. The silver VP10 Tesla Roadster was charging after a morning run with other drivers. Karen and I would have to split the downhill drive while another couple rode in the chase car to take the uphill return. I drew the long straw so I went first.
I had ridden in the passenger seat three times before, if you count the very short loop at the Roadster unveiling on July 19, 2006, but I had never been in the driver’s seat. Zak handed the keys to me and I climbed in, with him riding shotgun. When you start the car, dash lights come on and you may hear the power brake pump whir or the main battery contactor click closed, but otherwise it’s silent. This was no surprise to me since I used to drive a General Motors EV1 and still drive a Toyota RAV4 EV.
In my current cars, I adjust the seat back to an angle that is more vertical than most people choose. The Roadster’s seat backs are not adjustable (to keep the weight down), but the fit of foot to pedals and arms to wheel felt comfortable to me anyway. I think that part will be fine. I’ll need to make some other accommodations in my movements, though. The first thing I noticed was when I needed to back out of the charging spot to begin my drive. I started to put my arm behind the passenger’s seat to help turn my body and look backwards while backing – oops, that’s not possible in this car. Use the mirrors, Luke! You may have noticed that the side mirrors are positioned fairly wide on this car, so the view is good. You should adjust them before you start driving, though, because they are manual. “This is a sports car,” said Zak.
Readers of my earlier blog article The EV Experience know that I place a lot of importance on “pedal feel,” a subjective measure of how the car responds to instructions from the driver’s right foot. The Roadster’s pedal feel is excellent! One aspect is quick response when pushing the accelerator. As you would expect, the Roadster does very well in that department. Equally important, though, is how smoothly the motor transitions to negative torque when you let up. The Roadster is quite smooth, as good or maybe even better than the EV1, although now it has been long enough ago that I can’t remember exactly what the EV1 was like. This is in contrast to our RAV4 EV, where there is a small but noticeable jerk when in the “D” (drive) position that provides light regenerative braking. The RAV4 EV has only one gear, but it does have a “B” (braking) position that selects heavier regen, as does the Roadster’s first gear. However, in “B” the RAV4 EV’s jerking is so harsh that you can’t drive in that position; instead, you have to shift in and out when stopping or going down a grade.
VP10 charges at Alice’s Restaurant before the drive
First gear was not available on this test drive, so I was concerned that I might not get an adequate test of the regenerative braking capability. I want plenty of regen so I don’t have to move my foot over to the brake pedal and waste energy in the friction brakes. It was a pleasant surprise that even in second gear, the regen level was sufficient most of the time. I only needed to touch the brakes a couple of times. The car will slow down nearly to a stop, and very smoothly – there is no sudden increase in braking force like on first-generation AC Propulsion drive systems at the transition from current limit to power limit. Zak explained that the Roadster’s regenerative braking is programmed to vary according to the vehicle speed, being lighter when you are moving faster. I could sense that. Overall, the regen felt good. [Editor’s note: We have been testing a few configurations of the regen braking profile. Stephen sampled one of the profiles we have developed.]
The steering felt tight and responsive, with a bit more resistance beyond the first 15 degrees or so. I asked Zak if it was a variable ratio system, but he said no, it was a simple rack-and-pinion. What I was feeling was the road talking back to me through manual steering, something I have not felt since I sold my 1969 VW after 30 years. The VP10 Roadster handled well, staying solid and stable in the corners, with a noticeably smoother and quieter ride than in the Engineering Prototypes. I think I gave it a reasonable push, though not enough to make the tires squeal. Losing it on the first drive would be bad form!
About half-way through my drive, I looked ahead and saw we were approaching two cars, a lumbering American sedan followed closely by a sporty coupe. Oh no! I feared the rest of my drive would degenerate to a low-speed parade. Then I saw the sedan driver starting to pull off into a turnout to let the coupe pass. Since I was still some distance back, I wanted to make sure the sedan driver saw me and let me pass, too, so I quickly punched the accelerator to pull up closer. This was just the kind of situation where the Roadster’s electric drive shines: the power is right there when you need it, with no delay for manual or automatic shifting and no waiting for the engine or turbo to spin up.
We came to the end of my half of the downhill course much too soon. As I pulled into the parking space in front of a roadside business, I slowed to a crawl to test for “cogging”. When driving the RAV4 EV at very low speeds, such as when backing out of a garage, the car has an annoying tendency to proceed in little jumps as the permanent-magnet DC motor rotates from one pole to the next. In contrast, the Roadster’s AC induction motor and controller allow proportional control of the force vectors on each pole, resulting in perfectly smooth motion.
The only problem I noticed during my drive was in the rear-view mirror. At first, I thought the rear deck was not latched because it appeared to bounce up and down. Then I realized that flexing of the mirror mount caused the illusion. Perhaps it can be strengthened.
Trouble Sets In
A little while later, Darryl brought the chase car to a stop next to us. Apparently he drove at a fairly fast clip to keep up, enough to be a bit uncomfortable for those riding in the back seat. Karen and I traded places, and we waited for her to pull out. We saw the brake lights go on and off several times, but the back-up lights never came on. When Zak opened his door we knew there was a problem.
The diagnostic display kept reporting an “invalid shift request.” Zak and Darryl both tried shifting into reverse and forward gears, rolling the car backwards and forwards, and entering appropriate “reboot” incantations. They even found a phone that worked and consulted the engineers, but to no avail. At the time, we software geeks assumed it was a firmware bug, but later it turned out the sensor in the shift lever was mechanically broken.
Palpable disappointment filled the air as we all piled into Darryl’s car and drove back to Alice’s Restaurant, but Zak promised to give the other three drivers another chance later in the week. Indeed, on Friday Zak and Joe Powers drove the Roadster to our house and told my wife she could drive wherever she wanted (within limits, I assume).
Karen’s Drive
This chain of events turned out to be a net win for us because Karen was more comfortable driving on her home streets than on mountain roads. It also allowed us to more carefully plan what features she should test. One test was the turning radius. Like the EV1 but not the RAV4 EV, the Roadster can easily make a U-turn within the width of a residential street. Cruise control was also on the list, but she did not get a chance to test that.
Karen prepares for her drive, but Zak
is still holding the keys
Another test was for “creepy behavior.” It seems that the designers of the EV1 and RAV4 EV decided that in order to make their electric cars seem like “normal” cars, the motor control algorithm should include a positive offset to make the car creep forward like an automatic transmission gas car when the driver’s foot was off the accelerator. Apparently, they did not realize that this was not a feature, rather an unfortunate consequence of the internal combustion engine coupled with a torque converter; it requires the driver either to shift out of Drive or holding a foot on the brake. Fortunately, the Roadster does not creep. If the motivation for the creep is to reduce rolling backwards on a slope, then an EV can implement a nearly ideal anti-roll feature: the car can sense when it is on a backwards slope, not moving, and the brake not depressed. The motor controller can apply the right amount of torque to hold the car still, just being careful to gradually let off to avoid overheating the motor if that position is held too long. [Editor’s note: Since Stephen drove VP10 it has been updated to include a creep feature. Creep has been added as a safety feature to ensure that drivers do not leave the car on and in gear when they exit the vehicle.]
Surely the most exhilarating aspect to test is acceleration. Karen chose a course that included two freeway on-ramps, about the only place where one can legally test 0-60 mph performance. In fact, to properly enter a freeway in sync with traffic one should floor it, as my high school driver training instructor once emphasized by pushing down on my right knee. We picked the Evelyn Avenue on-ramp to Highway 85 (a 6-lane freeway) as a good test case: It is straight, up-slope, blind due to a sound wall, and affords a relatively short merge distance. The Roadster flew up the on-ramp with ease, of course, but when she got to the top, the driver in front was having trouble with the merging concept. With another punch on the pedal, she was able to zip into the second lane ahead of a faster approaching car. Karen hopes she did not leave Zak’s stomach behind!
Feedback
Interestingly, among the four of us test drivers, both men wanted more regen and both women wanted less. My wife felt that when she took her foot off the accelerator the car slowed faster than she wanted, or, at least, faster than she expected in comparison to the RAV4 EV. Zak said that Tesla Motors is considering making the regen level driver adjustable, although perhaps not at first release. Maybe our test drives provided useful feedback on that question. [Editor’s note: As mentioned earlier, the regen braking profile has since been updated, and we will be gathering feedback from other members on this change. Driver adjustable regen is a possibility in the future.] I can understand the women’s reactions because most drivers would be unaccustomed to the rate of deceleration automatically increasing as the vehicle speed decreases. However, if you think about it for a moment, that is the goal a driver usually achieves with the brakes. If the experience of the AC Propulsion folks and the insiders at Tesla Motors is any guide, for most drivers it does not take long to get used to driving primarily with the accelerator. Then they don’t want to go back. I can hardly wait.
Eric Stang
When Tesla Motors called and offered me a chance to help test a Tesla Roadster, it wasn’t easy but I moved my schedule around and joined them for the morning, and boy am I glad I did. It was a fantastic summer day and the car turned out to be, well, beyond my expectations. And being a sports car owner, and someone who likes to compete on the track as well, I don’t think of myself as that easy to impress.
Eric Stang with Darryl
I drove from Alice’s Restaurant on Skyline Boulevard about 15 miles through the mountains down to the beach. What impressed me most is how easy and safe it is to drive this car fast, or to be more specific, very fast. The power/acceleration is delivered at a constant rate, with no need for gearing up on the engine rpm as in a conventional sports car. This creates a smoothness to the driving that allowed me to relax and enjoy the experience more, and of course to accelerate quickly any time I wanted. With this consistent acceleration and also since I wasn’t shifting (the car was locked in second gear, which can be done for all driving conditions if one doesn’t want to shift from first to second at around 45 mph), I was able to concentrate fully on the road and my driving. I felt like I discovered something special with this car, namely that an electric power train in a sports car can bring a unique driving experience. I loved it.
I was also stuck by the truly integrated feel of the car. I in particular liked the quick steering via the small Momo-brand steering wheel and the solid feel of the brakes (I found I could really step on the brakes when I wanted to). The acceleration is, of course, fantastic but I was expecting that from what I had read about the car. I, of course, did not want to try to drive the car to its limit out of fear of making a mistake, so it was a pleasant surprise that I was able to go faster than I expected while still being a little extra careful. The mid-engine design provides for a mild under steer which seems to me to offer an added measure of driving safety versus the alternative. Not once did I feel at risk in a corner (thankfully).
The suspension surprised me by being stiff and stable and yet not pounding my back or neck over the bumps (I’m not sure how they manage to do this, frankly). I mention this because one of my concerns going in was comfort for daily use – no worries now. Also it was pointed out to me that for safety the structure behind the seats serves as a roll bar and that aluminum beams exist in front and back of the seating area, and in the door panels, to surround the passenger compartment. I can say too that for a small car it looks surprisingly solid when you see it in person.
Concerns? None really. I did note that at higher speed with the top off and the windows down the wind seemed loud in my ears. I presume this is due to the structure behind the driver; I did not get a chance to try rolling up the windows (I was having too much fun). Also I discovered, after some explanation from Tesla Motors, that driving the car aggressively for awhile can increase the temperature of the electric motor to a point where the car’s firmware modestly limits the power output to keep the temperature from rising farther. I’m not really sure if I reached this point or not, and it was explained to me that the production car will have increased motor cooling compared to the prototype I was driving. This might be something to watch and consider if you want to use the car on the track. [Editor’s note: The production motor will have improved airflow to aid cooling.]
I want to give a hearty thank you to Darryl, Zak, and Aaron for allowing me this special opportunity, and say in general to everyone at Tesla Motors that you have built one heck of a car.
Don Cox
W O W ! I drove a Tesla Roadster!! My summary: Fabulous!!!
Fabulous car! Fabulous drive! A really great exhilarating experience!
Don Cox with wife Mary and son Earl
at an earlier ride event; Earl has also
reserved a Tesla Roadster
Monday, September 10, I had the wonderful opportunity to drive the VP-10 Tesla Roadster along Skyline Blvd. in Woodside, Calif. Starting from the parking lot was quite uneventful – turn on the key switch – ease down on the accelerator – and away it goes. It is effortless, silent, no fuss – it just goes! Out on the two-lane, winding, hilly highway and I step hard on the accelerator – wow, it really takes off! Steering is crisp and very responsive. I get a feel for the car – its handling is excellent. Then I take a few sharp curves and step on the accelerator –it takes the corners effortlessly – the steering is very precise. On a straightaway, I whip the steering wheel back and forth – the car responds smoothly and effortlessly and my control remains very positive – a great handling car!
Zak asks how the suspension seems. I find a big bump ahead and go for it – the Roadster suspension takes the bump in stride; it is crisp, but very smooth and comfortable. Next, a hill – I step on it – without any hesitation the car accelerates up the hill. When I let up on the accelerator, the regenerative braking is positive and smooth – again it feels very good. More curves; more hills; I’m getting very familiar with driving the car – it seems too easy! I talk to Zak and almost forget that we are in an exciting all-electric sports car zipping down a hilly, winding highway – and I AM DRIVING IT!!! I remember that we are in A TESLA ROADSTER and step on the accelerator again for a reality check – effortlessly and smoothly it “takes off” and I back off on the accelerator. Too soon the drive is over and I pull into a roadside parking area. Am I impressed with driving the Roadster – yes! – fabulous! – exciting! – not enough superlatives available to describe it.
I turn the driver’s seat over to the next lucky driver and get into the “chase car” to return to the starting place. Then I realize how comfortable the seat in the Roadster was. I have a bad back and use a back cushion on other cars, but I forgot to bring the cushion along – and I did not need it. The Roadster was very comfortable to sit in and drive – the leg room was good and the sitting was excellent, and I am 6’4” tall. With no top on the car, my head was slightly above the top of the windshield, but the aerodynamics of the car kept the rush of the wind rising above my head – my hair didn’t even get messed up! (I should note that at the Pebble Beach Tesla Motors event I climbed into and sat in a VP with a hard top on it. There was about .5- to 1- inch clearance between the top of my head and the car roof – quite adequate.)
At the end of the drives, Zak asks me to be critical and tell him anything I found “not right” or “not good” about the car and/or driving it. I am at a loss to think of anything wrong with it – the only thought that comes to mind is – I want one – and I am delighted that we have one reserved.
It is a great car and I am glad when I remember that the reason I cannot have one now is that Tesla Motors is hard at work fixing a few remaining issues and making the great car even better! GO TESLA !!!
Editor’s note: This is Don’s second blog for Tesla Motors. Check out his previous entry, How I fell in Love with the Tesla Roadster.
Posted in the categories: Performance, On the Road
As you enter San Carlos, California, driving north on Industrial Blvd, you will see a couple of dot-com style office building on the right.
During the eighties and early nineties, this was the location of Circle Star Theater. This 3000-seat theater in-the-round hosted many famous celebrities such as the Beach Boys, Jack Benny, Richard Pryor, Frank Sinatra, Dionne Warwick, etc. The theater was demolished and replaced with two office buildings, a hotel, and a multi-story parking garage.
Just today, I saw the silver (probably VP10) Roadster leaving the Circle Star parking garage heading toward Tesla headquarters on Bing Street a few blocks away.
It looks like Tesla has taken over the top floor of the office building at Number One, Circle Star Way. I suspect that the four hundred car lockable parking garage next to it will be a staging location as the hundreds of roadsters are delivered to the lucky Tesla “members” during the next six months or so. Are you going to put charging stations in this garage?
Any comments from Tesla? Is this the plan?
Wow….Im jealous.
What a great blog entry! It’s very exciting to hear first hand experiences from owners.
I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the Roadster has manual mirrors and non-adjustable seats - sports cars are created to go fast and those features would dilute the experience while adding unnecessary weight. It’s also good to hear that the regenerative breaking profile is strong even in second gear; I hope Tesla keeps the regenerative breaking as high as possible. It might take getting used to but a strong regen profile will pay dividends in driving enjoyment and the amount of energy captured.
I’m a little disappointed to hear that creep was added in, because it offers very little benefits, accept as an idiot-proofing safety feature.
# Daryl wrote:
## We have been putting VP10 through its paces in the beautiful hills near our headquarters on the famous Skyline Boulevard.
## When Aaron Platshon (product marketing) and I first took one of the Validation Prototype cars from Alice’s Restaurant out
## to the beach just south of Half Moon Bay, we had one of those funny moments when we had to remember we were actually “at work.”
Yes, that sounds like a dream job at that particular moment, with that particular vehicle, on that particular road!
# Stephen Casner wrote:
## First gear was not available on this test drive
# Eric Stang wrote:
## The car was locked in second gear
Uh oh… I though the 1st gear transmission issues were only a problem for the EPs. Being so close to production, why does 1st still need to be locked out?!
## [Main entry editor’s note: We have been testing a few configurations of the regen braking profile. ]
Interesting. As many blog readers know, there was a very ’spirited’ debate about regen behavior on an earlier blog page
( www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=58 )
I am glad to hear that Tesla continues to put effort into trying to make their regen behavior be as optimal as possible.
Having Stephen (who has owned and driven most major EVs) give feedback should be very helpful in sorting out the best approach.
# Stephen Casner wrote:
## When driving the RAV4 EV at very low speeds, such as when backing out of a garage,
## the car has an annoying tendency to proceed in little jumps as the permanent-magnet DC motor rotates from one pole to the next.
Oh! I never owned a RAV4 EV so I didn’t realize this shortcoming of the permanent-magnet motor they use. The RangerEV I drive (like one Stephen had previously owned) has very smooth low speed acceleration. It uses an AC induction motor like Tesla. People have asked me why Tesla chose AC induction over permanent-magnet and I had weak answers (primarily cost), but this gives a very strong reason why induction is superior for this sort of application.
## [Main entry editor’s note: Since Stephen drove VP10 it has been updated to include a creep feature.
## Creep has been added as a safety feature to ensure that drivers do not leave the car on and in gear when they exit the vehicle.]
Hmm. Yes, the RangerEV has some “creep” too. I have driven home brew EVs with no creep, and I find it is nice, but adding a little creep as a safety measure doesn’t sound too bad since putting the vehicle in neutral or resting on the brake is something people are used to doing.
## Zak said that Tesla Motors is considering making the regen level driver adjustable, although perhaps not at first release.
## Interestingly, among the four of us test drivers, both men wanted more regen and both women wanted less.
I had contemplated on the blogs how Tesla would have to grapple with customers coming from different previous vehicle backgrounds.
Those who are used to manual transmissions may appreciate more (simulated) engine braking (by regen) but those used to auto transmissions may prefer “coasting” behavior. There is a stereotype that men prefer manual transmissions and women prefer auto. If true, that would line up my theory with your small data set.
( chronicle.com/subscribe/login?url=/weekly/v47/i42/42b00401.htm )
# Eric Stang wrote:
## The suspension surprised me by being stiff and stable and yet not pounding my back or neck over the bumps
## (I’m not sure how they manage to do this, frankly).
# Don Cox wrote:
## the Roadster suspension takes the bump in stride; it is crisp, but very smooth and comfortable.
My brief ride in a roadster confirmed what you report - the suspension does a very admirable job of mixing comfort with performance handling.
Like some of the other positive roadster attributes mentioned in this blog, I tend to think Lotus is to thank for this. Both with the chassis components they provide, and the engineering expertise that Tesla absorbed when they hired some people from Lotus. Lotus engineering has a glorious history for being masters in the suspension tuning department. It was wise of Tesla to use them as a partner for these pieces of their endeavor.
#Eric Stang wrote:
## driving the car aggressively for awhile can increase the temperature of the electric motor to a point where the car’s
## firmware modestly limits the power output to keep the temperature from rising farther.
Much speculation about such things has been bandied about in the blogosphere.
Tesla fanatics like me have contemplated the power and torque curve and wondered if batteries, controller, or motor are the limiting factors in power output.
It is interesting to hear some confirmation that motor heat is one of the primarily limitations. When Tesla publishes power and torque curves I gather it is showing either an average output or a “normal case” output, but doesn’t show that the curves are actually variable (not just on RPMs) but also other factors the controller is considering. All of this is somewhat academic perhaps because the vehicle performance is what really matters, and I haven’t yet heard any complaints in that area!
Great stuff
It’ll be interesting to see how all those celebrities with 20+ exotic cars in their garage like it. By the sound of things, the Tesla Roadster could be their favorite
Great comments from customers, Thank You for posting these reviews. What distances were covered on these road tests?
Maybe you’re not the right guy. Please pass this on if you’re not.
Could we get some new wallpapers to download? Specifically the new prototypes? More, more, more…
Thanks!
—
Editor’s response: Check back here in a couple of days and I will post a couple of images you can use.
# Gordon Green wrote on September 13th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
## Just today, I saw the silver (probably VP10) Roadster leaving the Circle Star parking garage heading toward Tesla headquarters on Bing Street a few blocks away.
Hmmm.
Note: that building was recently “Liberate”, but they moved out.
It is still listed as a “large paddle” charging location:
www.evchargernews.com/regions/94070_1.htm
I wonder if Tesla has removed that listed charger (and converted it to a Tesla charger).
Tesla: can you let the evchargernews folks know what has become of that old charging station?
Possible “Whitestar” competition (of sorts) - Fisker “Echo-Chic”
www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/05/fisker-goes-green-with-their-eco-chic-plug-in-vehicle/
(There used to be rumors that Fisker was designing the Whitestar body, but perhaps this was what they were up to instead)
I am a little disappointed that creep was included. As a european who thankfully has had little contact with automatics, I find it illogical that a car should move under its own power if noone is driving it.
As for being a safety feature;
I think that a beeping noise when you open the door with the motor still on, like when the headlights have been left on, is a better safety feature than the car driving off by itself.
The difference between an annoying beep and cost of the damage resulting from hitting the car in front with your
HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR!!!
Considering that heat is energy, and regen is so important, is there no way to use that heat?
Would a sterling motor generating power from it be feasable?
Wow! What can I say - Tesla Motors is REALLY transparent w.r.t. to the development of the cars. What other company states (or let others state) what problems there is their product. This shows gutts, determination and honest! Well done!!
Please excuse the off-topic remark, but according to Wikipedia California (as most other states) requires a front license (vehicle registration) plate. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Roadster with a front license plate, and it doesn’t seem like there is enough space to put one!
Awesome Blog! Many thanks to all the contributors.
# Stephen Casner wrote:
## When driving the RAV4 EV at very low speeds, such as when backing out of a garage,
## the car has an annoying tendency to proceed in little jumps as the permanent-magnet DC motor rotates from one pole to the next.
Guess which type of motor GM have chosen for the Volt? www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/13/gm-voltcom-interview-with-tony-posawatz/ Makes sense in terms of simpler & cheaper drive electronics. Maybe they can increase the number of poles in the motor? Bumpy reversing / creeping otherwise.
## [Main entry editor’s note: Since Stephen drove VP10 it has been updated to include a creep feature.
## Creep has been added as a safety feature to ensure that drivers do not leave the car on and in gear when they exit the vehicle.]
I must admit, I don’t see why the Roadster has to creep. If the driver’s door opens, just sound an alarm - like if you leave your lights on in a conventional vehicle.
#Eric Stang wrote:
## driving the car aggressively for awhile can increase the temperature of the electric motor to a point where the car’s
## firmware modestly limits the power output to keep the temperature from rising farther.
Hmmm, I wonder if this is the reason for the lockout on first gear. Enthusiastic use of first would hit the temperature limit sooner. Air cooling is a halibut to design compared with liquid cooling.
I’ve been waiting for these test-a-monials for a long time. Thank you.
“We picked the Evelyn Avenue on-ramp to Highway 85 (a 6-lane freeway)…”
Hey, that’s MY onramp for the drive home at night! I agree that it is the perfect 0-60 test strip. Do that a few more times and maybe I’ll also get my long-coveted, in-traffic, in-motion Roadster sighting! I’ll keep looking!
# Raymond Michiels wrote on September 14th, 2007 at 5:52 am
## Please excuse the off-topic remark, but according to Wikipedia California (as most other states) requires a front license (vehicle registration) plate.
## I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Roadster with a front license plate, and it doesn’t seem like there is enough space to put one!
Here are some photos with US and European front plates mounted:
(keep in mind that these are prototypes)
www.teslamotors.com/display_data/bcoldsoak.jpg
zobeid.zapto.org/caviar/image/tesla/glacier_blue.03.jpg
Loose the creep!
My car has keyless ingintion. It’s smart enough to beep at me when I get out of the car and leave the key on the seat.
How about the door open warning. Doesn’t that already go off when the door is opened?
You can get anything you want at Alice’s restaurant-and one day at Tesla Motors as well, no?
Darryl Siry:
I am surprised to find out that you are not giving your VP9 and VP10 to major auto reviewers like Car&Driver and Road&Track. I’m sure you have your reasons, but when you do decide to, I have a couple of suggestions. Since the most common objection people have against electric cars is charge time, I suggest that you give a car to the reviewer for an entire week. Go to the expense of putting a charger in his/her garage. This charger could be plugged into the dryer outlet with a special extension cord that has a box and a switch on it to switch between the dryer and the charger. Slightly inconvenient, but suitable for a temporary installation. By the end of the week, not only will the reviewer not want to give up the car, but s/he will appreciate the convenience of not having to go to a gas station, and will realize that a fast charge is not an issue. Secondly, unlock that first gear. These reviewers are professionals and I am sure they will take care of your baby, but they will be frustrated if they cannot play with that first gear and be able to give a full driving experience report.
Non adjustable seats? And no power rear view mirrors? I think you made a mistake there. Even a small range of seat back angle would be greatly appreciated by many drivers and passengers. The fact that it is a sports car is a pretty lame excuse for non-power rear view mirrors. This is not a bare bones economy sports car but an expensive luxury sports car and should all the amenities expected. I know this is nit picking, as you have a really superb sports car , after all it does have air conditioning, heated seats, an optional high tech stereo system, cruise control, etc. so why not complete the package?
—
Darryl replies: I have been planning to do first drives with all the major car magazines, and I have been in contact with them for quite some time. It is really a matter of timing. As for how we do these first drives, it would be unprecedented in the auto industry for me to give a validation prototype to a car magazine for a whole week. What is usually done, and is the path I will take, is that you organize a “first drive” review that gives them a significant amount of seat time in a setting that allows for them to get a good sense for the car (and get some photos…) The full testing occurs after the car is in production. Another thing that makes our situation unique is that the timing of these first drives is usually intended to sync up with the launch of the car and to prime the pump for sales. We don’t have that situation, so I am in no rush and will do the first drives when we feel that VP10 is fully ready. Something to keep in mind is that VP10 is in many ways “down rev” from the production intent, and I want to make it as close as possible to the production car before organizing the first drives, so reviewers can indeed have the full driving experience. We will probably do these things in November, which will make the January magazines, but it all depends. In the meantime, handing VP10 to any journalist or blogger would alienate all the major automobile reviewers, so doing these customer drives is a great way to share some initial impressions and give some of our customers a great experience.
Sigh.
Anyway, I guss the trouble with mirrors is that they’re subjective. First time I used automatic they felt strange. They still feel strange after years. I would call it “creeping featurism”. Manual works just ok for something to do seldom.
Less is more.
Roy wrote
# I suggest that you give a car to the reviewer for an entire week.
# Go to the expense of putting a charger in his/her garage.
Excellent idea. We all know that these reviewers are going to write “Great car, shame about the range/recharge times”, because they won’t be able to comprehend the benefits of home recharging unless they experience it first-hand.
Refuelling with gas is an unremarkable and therefore unquestioned activity. Gas price rises are usually gradual enough to avoid arousing too much dissent. Besides, people would rather pay up than have to adapt their behaviour for some new alternative energy source. “Better the devil you know” is really just “Easier the habits you don’t notice” ICE cars have us all compliant, docile and well-trained
. You are what you buy.
In addition, reviewers are used to being treated preferentially by conventional car companies - unfortunate, but that’s the system.
With Roy’s idea, the reviewer jumps the queue and becomes a Signature 100 customer/owner for the week; hopefully they will write “Great car, but living gas-free is an even greater revelation!”. This awareness can only come through a (short) period of real-world ownership, over and above the usual ICE-format test drives.
Obviously the Available Ampacity in their home / home insurance and the like, will have to be worked through.
Correction to previous post:
GM using AC motor for the Volt:
www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/14/clarification-chevy-volt-electric-motor-is-ac/
“I am surprised to find out that you are not giving your VP9 and VP10 to major auto reviewers like Car&Driver and Road&Track.”
From the October 2007 Car and Driver 2008 new cars edition, there is a single paragraph on the Tesla Roadster. The last line reads, “With a base price of $98.950, we’re not sure how far outside Hollywood its appeal will spread.” Meanwhile they mention half a dozen other low production much more expensive exotics with terms like lusty engines and supercars.
They sound open minded don’t they?
Here is my guess as to how this would go. Car and Driver will put the Tesla on a track and run it flat out. As a result they will come up with a range of much much lower than 200 miles. They will also probably make comments like it’s fun to drive while the battery lasts, but we had to stretch its test out over X days because it kept running out of juice. They will follow that will lots of sarcastic remarks about its supposed range. Also if running the car like this heats up the motor and it starts limiting itself they will also complain.
This is what they do. When they get a suped up expensive toy and it self destructs, they let their readers know about it. They will tear this car apart because Tesla bills it as a sportscar that competes with exotic sports cars. They will compare it in many ways past its 4.0 second 0-60 time. I’m sure it’s Lotus designed suspension will be world class, hopefully the brakes are equally up to the task, but they will take it to its top speed and if its accelleration drops off at higher speeds compared to the other exotics they will point that out. What they will not point out is what the average maintenance is for a Porsche or Ferrari over a period that extends past their warranties, how many less parts there are to wear out, how easy it is to replace the whole motor.
YAY!!! Reviews of the Roadster.
Sounds like the drivers are impressed with the acceleration even despite that it was only in second gear. It’s good to hear that pedal feel is great, and that you guys are working on possibly different regen options. I don’t understand why you don’t have seat adjustability avaialable however. I mean, if you have air conditioning, then why not seat adjustments? Oh well, I’m sure there’s reasons.
However, what really concerns me is with the transmission. Why did you lock it into 2nd gear? (afraid that the customers might push the car to hard?) Also, although I appreciate the honesty, it is concerning for your car to have transmission problems just months away from production.
Overall, great blog post, and despite the concerns, we still have faith in Tesla.
Wow ! At last someone has break the curse of the big boys. Finally the EV sports car has arrived. The courage to do the inevitables.If only this car can be powered by zero point energy thats a real break through to humanity. Clean technology and bye bye to the notorius for killing this technology. Hope the good guys win wins.
Tesla fan
Derek Koh
SIngapore
I just wonder if someone in the company is exploring battery pack exchange vs recharging? While front loaded in it’s execution, it would entice Gas Stations to join in on the ‘electric revolution.’ The model I have in mind is the tank echange we have now with propane for our bar-beques. What do you think?
With regard to “creep”. . . The shifter does have a neutral position, right? I mean, I would imagine you can slot it into neutral and it shouldn’t creep anywhere. And when you park, you’d naturally put it into neutral and engage the hand brake, right? (This is what I already do in my sports car. I know some people leave their car in gear when they park it, but I don’t like my car springing into action next time I start to crank the engine.)
Haven’t been able to get this car out of my mind since discoveringit online a week five days ago. I live in NY and have 3 questions. 1. When will the NYC dealership be opened and do yu have a location? 2. when will a car be available for test driving under NYC conditions? Stop and go traffic. and 3. when can I buy stock in this company? I applaud you and your company. The car looks great!
My training tells me that heat generated is lost energy unless it is used for another purpose. I ‘m interested in how efficient your motor really is under full load conditions. And, is there any way for you to recover the energy, like using it for cabin heat?
>> Editor’s note: Since Stephen drove VP10 it has been updated to include a creep feature. Creep has been added as a safety feature to ensure that drivers do not leave the car on and in gear when they exit the vehicle.
As if crashing into the car parked in front of you is safe!!!!
There are at least three alternatives that are in fact safe, rather than creating a crash risk:
1. If the car is on and the driver opens the door, sound a buzzer (this gets the attention of the driver without creating a crash risk),
2. put the transmission in park (this will keep it stationary, rather than causing it to move unintentionally and crashing (this assumes hill-holding and regen will keep the car in place on a level or slightly inclined surface)),
3. refuse to lock the doors if the driver gets out (because who would want a thief to drive off with their $100k car?)
Creep is not the solution to anything. At least Toyota was honest when they said
“Although the THS
structurally does not let the car creep forward, the group
added that feature by letting the motor provide enough
power to cause the car to creep forward, so that a driver
would not feel uncomfortable when switching from an AT
car.” (quoted from “The Prius that shook the world” by Hideshi Itazaki).
Does the roadster at least have a neutral?
J in MN
# Daryl wrote:
## VP10 is in many ways “down rev” from the production intent, and I want to make it as close as possible to the production car before organizing the first drives
Can you elaborate on that? What upgrades are coming to make it closer to production grade??
New transmission with stronger 1st gear?
Revised suspension?
Finalized regen, creep and other PEM profiles?
# Daryl wrote:
## handing VP10 to any journalist or blogger would alienate all the major automobile reviewers
Yeah… Proper pecking order protocol.
I gave it some thought, and decided that a user-adjustable regen profile is possibly a safety hazard. If one driver likes the strong regen, and that driver’s spouse likes soft regen, if the first driver gets into the car after it’s been switched to soft regen, there could be a moment of panic as the car is not slowing down as much as expected, possibly leading to collisions.
Since the Tesla Roadster is a sports car, strong regen seems to be most appropriate, in my opinion. I think it shouldn’t take long for drivers to get used to it
On yesterdays CBS Sunday Morning the first story was on electric cars, with a good portion of Tesla and Martin as well (some Chevy Volt) . They did a pretty good job disposing of the ethanol and hydrogen detractors with an Economist correspondent. See www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/06/sunday/main3239838.shtml
I was pleasantly surprised Sunday morning to see the lead story on the CBS Sunday Morning show featuring the Tesla Roadster. Even more important was the Economist explaining why George W’s Ethanol plan won’t work and will only drive up our food costs.
The future owners test drive reports are excellent, I will look forward to more. Also I would like to hear more about the production upgrades from VP10.
Philip
# Mark wrote
# Here is my guess as to how this would go. Car and Driver will put the Tesla on a
# track and run it flat out. As a result they will come up with a range of much much
# lower than 200 miles. They will also probably make comments like it’s fun to drive
# while the battery lasts, but we had to stretch its test out over X days because it kept
# running out of juice. They will follow that will lots of sarcastic remarks about its
# supposed range. Also if running the car like this heats up the motor and it starts
# limiting itself they will also complain.
In many ways the sports car/exotics section of most auto mags is pure fantasyland. It’s all about silly numbers and daydream lifestyles. And the mechanics of review construction reflect this:- track events, speed trials etc. It’s not about normal day to day motoring. These cars are all about escapism.
Yet the Roadster has been built as a realistic daily drive - it shouldn’t be compared with some weekend, track-only, hopeless ground-clearance, neurotic thoroughbred.
Yet equally, it wouldn’t be much of a step forward if the Roadster was relegated to an “EV shootout” alongside the punishment cars. Of course it will win those reviews - and no one, save the eco-converts, will bother to read them.
This car NEEDS to be put up against the likes of Porsche and Mazda and the rest of the two-seaters. The electric vehicle HAS to grow up. The Roadster may not win these contests and some of the reviews will, I’m sure, be condescending in their conclusions, if not biased in their execution.
But the message about great looks, superior mileage and good performance will begin to sink in. And in the light of Alan Greenspan’s own inconvenient truth about war and oil, the importance of Tesla’s work will be clear to all.
Whether auto journalists care to take note of such things as they write yet another slice of soft-top soft-por.n is not the point. We can, at least, rely on them to say that the car looks gorgeous and provide good photos. But as happened last year, larger numbers of non-auto media will publish far more stories about the car. Tesla makes good copy from so many different angles. Most car companies are frightfully dull.
As a result, many more ordinary Americans (men and, increasingly, women) are going to understand and discuss this car.
That or OJ
“They did a pretty good job disposing of the ethanol and hydrogen detractors with an Economist correspondent. ”
Read the comments on that article. They obviously didn’t educate many of the posters. They argued for fuel cells, people started going off about all the nuclear power plants we would need and people coming home turning on the AC and plugging in their cars.
Apparently the point about off hours charging just did not sink in and needs more explaination for the masses to “get it”.
The CBS feature was one of the best that the main stream media has done on the EV up till now. I am impressed at how quickly Tesla is establishing the concept of the EV as the most viable of all of the alternatives to the ICE. The hydrogen fuel cell is quickly losing favor and ethanol and biodiesel are being exposed for what they are. The EV may not have been killed but the idea of the EV as any kind of real alternative had been completely expunged from the minds of motorists until Tesla demonstrated what is possible. If Tesla had not demonstrated what is possible right now it would have been many more years before people would have believed the EV could be a real alternative and quirky hybreds would be the best we would have been offered for a long time.
Someone from Tesla - please answer these questions:
Does the Roadster have a Neutral that can be selected while stopped to avoid any “creeping”?
Assuming it has a Neutral, can you select it while in motion to “coast” if you really don’t want the regen to slow you down?
If you are on a steep hill, stopped (such as in San Francisco) and you release the brake pedal will the car roll backwards?
(In other words, does it have “hill holding” capability in any of the gears?)
Thanks.
—
Editor’s response: The Roadster has a neutral position in the car.
My office is a road racing circuit; Motorsport Ranch just SW of Fort Worth, TX. My clients are club members out for a track-day and grassroot racers. It’s quite common for my shop, paddock, grid and track to be filled with all types of sports and racing cars. I know some of my clients base what they buy on what they see at the track.
When a Corvette owner finally gets fed up with oiling and overheating problems, they look to something else…Porsche, Viper, Exige…Something that has been passing them all weekend, most likely. This is the client with the money that should be buying a Tesla, if they knew about it. One of my clients owns a Carrera GT ($440k) and a GT3 RS ($120k) and an Arial Atom made just north of Tesla in Oregon. The Atom is 1200 lbs and has 300hp for only $60-80k. That is the car he takes on the track because it’s quicker than anything else he owns. He NEEDS a Tesla!
When someone can afford $90-125k for a track-only car, it’s ususlly a Porsche GT3 Cup factory racecar. Not they want to race, per say, they just want to be the fastest halibut thing on the track to feed their hunger for speed and their ego.
The down-side is the extreame noise, thirst for racing fuel ($8.50/gal), brake pads ($600/set) and if you miss a shift and “pop” a motor?, well that’s $50k and no more fun ’til it’s running again. My point here is that the Tesla Roadster could be very successfully marketed to those buyers that want the thrill of major performance on the track with minimal side-effects. Most of the “Country Club”-based motor racing circuits aren’t interested in hosting actual races from SCCA, PCA and BMWCCA. They want to give their clients a safe an fun way to go very fast in their toys on tires. I think that instead of handing the keys to the mainstream car magazines to launch the car, Tesla should take three or four cars to tracks all accross the country and give rides and drives to the instructors and “members with the means” durring the driver’s education events that are held almost weekly. To test this approach, take some prototypes to events in your own backyard, Infineon, Thunder Hill, Willow Springs, Buttonwillow. Talk to the track owner about a charging station there! The racing fuel supplier will hate it, but the track’s neighbors will love it. Just imagine a spec series with 50 or so race-prep’d Tesla’s flying into turn one with only wind, gear and tire noise to be heard and nothing hamfull to spill onto pit lane. What a beautiful thought. Keep up the great work. I hope to get my test drive soon!
Thanks much for the CBS link; it’s good to see mainstream media what gets it. I spend a little time on Green Car Congress each day to read about all the happenings in the alternative energy world and the image I get from the comments is that more and more people see the ultimate car as a battery electric vehicle. Some months ago that wasn’t true, ethanol, bio diesel, diesel and hybrids were the picks. Now, many who comment on that site believe we will be moving along a path that is like this: Gasoline, Hybrid, Diesel, Plug in Hybrid, and finally the BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle). Please note the fuel cell car was not included because at this point it is believed to still be pure PR vapor.
If only Tesla had the facilities to mass produce their white star sedan at a lower cost, we could hasten the path to the BEV. But, not for a moment would I ever suggest that TM should sell out to Big Auto. Keep developing and innovating and I believe you will drive the competition in the right path; but, make sure down the line that you produce a car for the common man, me!
I noticed on the CBS piece a reference to a sequal movie titled “Who saved the Electric Car?”
Was this a tongue in the cheek comment by the guy who produced “Who killed the electric car?” or was he serious?
I, for one, hope that he was.
Peter J Hedge
Victoria, BC
“Listen Up, there’s an electric buzz in the air”:
driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article2452188.ece
Darryl Siry:
Thanks for your feedback. I certainly understand that you are in no hurry to have your cars evaluated by major auto magazines from the generating sales point of view. But don’t leave it too long, they should review it while it is still “new”. I hadn’t thought of the fact that they should have a production car to evaluate instead of a validation prototype. This would be much better; I actually thought that maybe you couldn’t get one because they are all spoken for. You might break with tradition on the “Let them ride passenger around the block” first approach with a follow up a few weeks later. I don’t think much would be accomplished by the brief showing. It is already widely publicized. There are some people who think these reviewers are going to cut the car up because it doesn’t roar and can’t be filled in a few minutes. A brief showing won’t give them time to rethink this. I believe that with the longer test time approach, they will love the car and give glowing reviews. This goes beyond selling a few cars, you are starting a new company and are the vanguard of a new type of car. These reviewers influence a lot of people, and you should do everything you can to let them to see the light.
One little plea: Don’t ever make a hybrid, keep your cars pure! I wish you every success, Tesla Motors is already an amazing story.
I didn’t check if this comment was made yet, but if it is i am merely adding my voice to the original commentor.
Instead of adding a creep function (in my normal cars i would always shift into neutral because i didn’t like holding the break) couldn’t you just make it so that the car knew when the keys left the chassis and turn off the engine? With all the amazing fanciness of such a marvelous car i would hope safety features that are not also a nuisance could be found.
I am embarrassed by my sloppy post. I said that reviewers would only be passengers, but Darryl said that they would have “as much seat time as possible”, and this clearly means in the driver’s seat. Also I said don’t “leave it too long” by which I meant within the next 3 months. Darryl is already planning the reviewers’ time before then. The rest is mostly a repeat of what I said before and my opinion there is little to gain by a typical introduction and some risk of negative comment. I really did mean thanks for the feedback, Darryl.
I think it is a little pre-mature for Chris Paine to say that the electric car has been saved. We hope for the best, but it will be a few years before there is any large market penetration. There are other forces at work, like fuel cell cars, that may win by improved technology coupled with large advertising dollars to keep us dependent on going to “them” for fuel. I am also concerned about Tesla Motors going public, it must remain in the control of true believers. General Motors spent about $1 billion on the EV1 and then crushed them as soon as they won their court case against CARB. They or someone like them could easily buy Tesla Motors just to throw away.
If the car creeps when the gas pedal is released, that means that no or little regenerative braking is takin place. Does this also mean that regenerative braking won’t bring the vehicle to a complete stop? I suppose it could be programmed for both, but it would either be difficult or weird. I think some of the alternatives to creep that others have discussed sound like good ideas.
Slightly off-topic, but how about an update on the production status. It’s been a long while since we’ve had a “progress report”, which was a welcome distinction between TM’s transparency vs that of traditional automakers.
Regarding the need for creep as a safety feature. A weight sensor in the driver’s seat (like the one used for the passenger side airbag system on my Lexus) could be used to shut off the vehicle’s drive system. Even my lawn tractor has a similar feature so how hard could it be to implement.
# Isaac Ladson wrote on September 17th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
# Thanks much for the CBS link; it’s good to see mainstream media what gets it.
The NYT reporter who put the piece together, David Pogue, is famous for “getting it” and explaining what he knows in an orderly fashion, using accessible language. He earned a lot of his reputation writing about Apple Computer products in days gone by.
“Who Killed the Electric Car (Forum)…”
www.teslamotorsclub.com/ has been hacked again.
Sigh.
I’ll start by saying this car looks great and sounds great, but i see a couple problems. As Mark wrote, the impressive-for-a-electric-car-but-kind-of-inconvenient range of 200 miles is, most likely, not 100% accurate. Also, a quick charge feature or something of the like would be helpful for long trips. If your spending $100,000 on a car you shouldn’t need to buy another car for long trips. The only way right now is to get 3/4 of the way there and stop and let the Tesla charge for 3.5 hours while you…sit there?
Other then those few problems, this is a great car that i will look into. One problem though. I live in Houston, TX and before spending so much i would like to be able to test drive it. Is that possible and where could that take place?
Finally!!! A reason not to want a Roadster… the ‘creep’. My EV has a radio.. and a computer fan whine [on the controller] , these go off when the key is off… I LOVE not having creep. I am sure you can come up with a more elegant solution.
Also, I am very happy some folks are getting to drive the car!!!, it means my turn is coming up…. keep it coming!!!!
Peter J Hedge wrote on September 18th, 2007 at 11:19 am:
“I noticed on the CBS piece a reference to a sequal movie titled “Who saved the Electric Car?””
Apparently he was serious. Following TEG2’s link, driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article2452188.ece , there’s a bit at the bottom that reads “Chris Paine, the American film maker responsible for last year’s searing attack on the car industry and oil lobby groups with his documentary entitled Who Killed the Electric Car?, is busy working on his follow-up feature: Who Saved the Electric Car?”
So there you go. I hope he’ll wait until some affordable (under $50K) production models come out before finishing the film, since whoever is first to market with those will really be the savior of the EV due to accessibility to the most people. Currently, it seems the race is on between Tesla, Th!nk, GM/Chevy, Miles, and now supposedly Nissan.
Oop, forgot Phoenix. Them too.
Mike wrote, “If your spending $100,000 on a car you shouldn’t need to buy another car for long trips.” I’d turn that around. If you are spending $100,000 on a two-seater sports car, you should already *have* another car for long trips.
Interesting quote from the UK Times Online piece cited above by TEG2:
“Later this year a new Li-ion version of the Th!nk electric car will roll off the production line in Norway. It’s a successor to the original Th!nk killed off by parent company Ford due to its lack of profitability. The new car has a projected range of 112 miles and a top speed of 62mph.”
Such a car would be a candidate for my commute. I’d appreciate a top speed of 75, just for “headroom” on freeways where speed limits range from 50-70 — its really not cool to have other drivers in the slow lane having to change lanes to pass you — but a solid 62 would certainly suffice for almost all of my daily driving. Let’s see what Th!nk brings forth (with a TEG ESS, yes?).
# Sean wrote:
## I noticed on the CBS piece a reference to a sequal movie titled “Who saved the Electric Car?””
## Apparently he was serious.
Just go here and see the “Coming Soon” graphic:
www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/
Mitsubishi seems also to have thrown their hat into the EV ring (or at least onto the EV bandwagon):
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/10/tokyo-preview
Things might be very interesting in the EV marketplace in 3 years. I trust the Whitestar will be one of the best.
I would also argue against including GM on that list, since a series hybrid is really a very different creature… even a plug-in with a 40 mile battery range. Why add 200 moving parts (the “Range Extender”) for something you’re only going to be using once a month when you drive out of town? Alternatively, if you are going to put an engine in there, why not throw in a clutch and a gearbox (for an extra 100 lbs or so) and save 20% of your fuel by eliminating conversion losses?
Al- I agree. The last two blog topics have been lightweight to me.
Tesla Motors and its product remind me of Deam Kamen and the Segway, the overhyped, overpriced, barely functional “SUV of the sidewalk” and all-around market flop. The connective tissue: Silicon Valley’s venture capitalists. You know, the people who you know are lying when they move their lips.
The great thing here is that all the press releases are archived on the Internet, like the one that promised a nationwide city-by-city tour in early 2007 (oops, didn’t happen), the first deliveries in California in summer ‘07 (oops, didn’t happen), more deliveries in other places in the fall of 2007 (oops, won’t happen). I suppose Tesla will, at some point, feel compelled to rush some vehicles out the door, but the next thing we’ll hear is that, like most other products from Silicon Valley, they’ll have half the features that were promised and will work half the time.
We know what WILL work perfectly, though: The venture capital hype machine. That’s something that the geeks know how to do very, very well. Anybody want to drive a used Segway?
—
Editor’s comment: Don’t be such a playa hater!
Off Topic
Call for fuel tax to ease US road congestion:-
www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/21-09-07_12?s=-s33o83s26yv3h5m
I did a sabbatical at Lehigh U in 1992.Students there had TR8 soft-tops. In 1983 my TR7 was converted to a TR8.
Fantastic performance - crap gas mileage. 12-17 mpg.
This week at a UK party political broadcast the TESLA sports (0-60 in 4 secs) was compared favorably with Italian supercars.
Maybe you guys should try to get a clip of the video?
If I still had the eyesight to drive( not so because of diabetic retinopathy) I would certainly buy a TESLA sports.
Graham Cliff.
I saw a video on youtube for the tesla sportscar, and I was thinking; in these days of styling and radically modifying cars, why not incorporate slim solarpanels as viper stripes? just a thought…
—
Editor’s comment: check out this blog.
According to the New York Times latest article on EVs, the Roadster’s estimated range has been revised back up to 245 miles!
“Mark wrote, the impressive-for-a-electric-car-but-kind-of-inconvenient range of 200 miles is, most likely, not 100% accurate”
My comment had to do with a company like Car and Driver racing the Tesla around a race track, which involves running top accelleration, braking more than the regenerative braking could handle and top speeds which will drain the battery a lot quicker than normal use. I think that most normal driving will allow for a chunk more than 200 miles from a single charge.
I think most of us with a typical drive to and from work ( my drive is 19 miles each way mostly highway) wouldn’t have an issue and also wouldn’t need to recharge but every few days to keep a safe reserve.
I do think that many of the public will need to be weaned off the idea that they need gas. Plugin Hybrids will be a lot easier for many people handle initially while battery prices drop and ranges increase. Then at some point people will begin to realize that they really don’t need a generator on board.
“I hope he’ll wait until some affordable (under $50K) production models come out”
Converted Fiat Panda’s, Fiat Doblo’s and some others are already available in some parts in europe under that price. MES-DEA and Cleanova are the companies doing them. They are using either Zebra molten salt or “regular” lithium-ion batteries. Highway speeds, 100+ miles range. When LiFEPo4 ramps up production, expect to see more of these.
jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2104
Here’s a fairly complete list of electric consumer cars that are being offered or will be offered shortly, mostly in europe
www.avem.fr/index.php?page=vep-elec
Tesla is one of the expensive ones.
Automobile magazine, October issue, Page 110:
“0-60 in less than 5 seconds” (why not 4?)
“Five hours to recharge” (why not 3.5?)
—
Editor’s note: The Tesla Roadster will do 0-60 mph in 4 seconds and can change in as little as 3.5 hours using the Home Changing Station that comes with the car.
hey im doing a little report for my college speech class about fuel economy and such and i was wondering if there was any room in the tesla for a small engine very small but big enough to keep the battery of cells charged using some sort of computerized load tester to know when to turn on and off while the car is running or under way and could still be charged at night, is such an idea feasable if so this could give the tesla an amazing range while maintaning performance, the engine could also be shut off if a tesla was just going to be run around town
Hi guys, love the car. Are there any plans to sell the powertrain etc for converting regular cars to this technology.
My MGF would be a willing candidate. regards marty/.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that wants to drive the Tesla at a track. It’s cool to see that Eric Stang agrees with me. Laguna Seca, or Thunderhill comes to mind. Wonder if those tracks have high-power outlets?
Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere but does your home charging station include the option to select when it will charge, such as waiting till off peak times?
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Editor’s Answer: Yes - the charge time can be set via the VDS in the car.
What’s the cost to replace the battery pack at the end of it’s useful life (estimated at 100k miles)? Also, in the event Tesla Motors comes out with a more advances/higher energy density battery pack, will it be backwords compatible?
Looking for the “Automotive Journalist” section on this website? Does one exist on the Tesla website? Most interested in knowing what experienced “Automotive Journalists” that have extensive experience driving EV’s (battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell) think of the Tesla.
When are those auto magazine guys going to get to test a consumer Tesla roadster product? 2008 is getting very close. I don’t see to much new stuff on your web site. Find any quality nanolithium ion batteries yet?