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Scott Painter is a serial entrepreneur and car fanatic-in-chief at Zag.com, a technology company that helps buyers get up-front discounted pricing and no-hassle delivery from pre-qualified dealers nationwide. Zag.com aims to “remove the fear factor from the buying process.”
Scott is a maverick in the auto industry for pushing transparent online pricing nearly a decade ago, when most car buyers still endured time-consuming haggle sessions at dealerships. Before Zag.com, Scott founded and was CEO of CarsDirect.com, and he was also founder and chairman of Build-To-Order.
He took ownership in late December. Scott loves the driving experience – but he is equally fascinated by Tesla’s retail strategy, which eschews traditional franchise dealerships for store-owned showrooms and no-commission sales associates.
I drove my very own Tesla Roadster off the lot of the Tesla store in West Los Angeles the other day – a few months before I was expecting it. (Thanks, guys, for the best Christmas present possible!) My first reaction is the most visceral: Wow!
Best thing so far? I get a thrill out of scaring the crap out of everyone.
The intoxicating wind-up of the electric motor almost teases anyone near me to doubt the power under the hood. But it’s all sports car. All torque all the time, zero to 60 in less than four seconds, speed and handling that rival anything I’ve ever driven. (The brakes could be better – or maybe it’s my fault for driving like a jackass.)
I’m a Car Fanatic (yes, that’s an official title), so I’m not easy to impress. I’ve got plenty of great cars to include in my dream garage – BMWs, Lotuses, and Ferraris. But I’m not too proud to say I LOVE my Tesla.
First, it looks damn good. Heads turn, even though there’s no obnoxious engine noise to alert passers-by that I’m approaching.
Then, of course, there’s the fact that I need absolutely no gasoline to power it. So far I’ve gotten the thumbs up from five Prius drivers. No lie – they actually roll the window down and give me a double-fisted thumbs up!
Even beyond the fact that it’s a truly remarkable green sports car, it’s made by a truly remarkable company. Seriously… here’s a group of big thinkers who decide to create their own car company. In Silicon Valley. To get started, they outsource the chassis assembly but retain control of the “secret sauce” – all the technology in the all-electric, zero-emission powertrain. Good thinking.
They also shirk all the traditional industry baggage by deciding to sell directly to buyers, rather than through independent dealers. Tesla owns its stores in Menlo Park and West Los Angeles, and everyone who works in the stores is a Tesla employee – no one works on commission. Although this doesn’t allow Tesla to open locations as fast as through a franchise dealership, it does allow Tesla to own 100 percent of the customer experience. This is one of the biggest frustration of traditional auto industry executives – they can build great products, but if customers have a bad experience at their local dealer, they often blame the automaker.
This strategy also plays to the unique strength of the Roadster, which has far fewer moving (and breakable) parts than any internal combustion engine sports car. I will never have to go in for a 3,000-mile oil change, exhaust system tuneup, muffler change or service job to replace belts, hoses or spark plugs. Most franchise dealerships make a tidy profit on service and maintenance work, and they encourage customers to bring their cars back to the dealership frequently. With few exceptions, it makes no sense for Tesla – which asks customers to bring their cars in once a year for a firmware upgrade — to partner with a traditional dealership when the car is virtually maintenance free.
This is innovation at its best. And look how well it works! A car like this couldn’t have been built any other way.
Forget about the fact that it is green – it is a blast and you can’t have more fun behind the wheel of any car!
Posted in the categories: Uncategorized
“I get a thrill out of scaring the crap out of everyone.” Ha! I love your honesty.
You must have attended a lot of Gartner conferences. Retaining the “special sauce” and out-sourcing the rest to someone who can do it better / faster / cheaper is a favorite theme of theirs. Gartner is the first place I’ve heard the term “special sauce” used instead of “value add”. it’s much more descriptive and gets to the idea of “core competency”. Tesla Motors probably went that route for expediency, but it serves them well. While the Model S will be an entirely Tesla Motors vehicle, I’ve read that they may take the special-sauce route with the BlueStar (or whatever we’re calling it nowadays).
Green? Funny, it sure looks silver, to me.
:P
How do you recharge? Did you put in a 220×70 plug? Install solar? Buy lotsa hamsters?
;)
Do you find yourself watching for sections of open straightaway so you can “floor it”? I’d find the temptation irresistable, I think!
Thanks for the amazing post, Scott. But, could you pick a better picture…preferably one that doesn’t look like I’m sleeping next to your Roadster…hahaha!! I’m glad you are enjoying your Roadster. Your passion for Tesla is the real driving force behind our success. Please continue to spread the word!!! Hope you had a wonderful Holiday Season!!!
Congratulation on your new Tesla! It is great to get feedback from someone who really know about cars … I want one!
Great story!
# “I will never have to go in for a 3,000-mile oil change, exhaust system tuneup, muffler change or service job to replace belts, HOSES or spark plugs.”
One of those things is not like the other… There are some coolant hoses in there…
Also, the batteries may not last the life of the car. (Time will tell)
# “The brakes could be better”
Maybe you can give us an update later and let us know how well the brakes are doing.
Do they get any better after they get broken in?
In theory the pads and rotors should outlast other sports cars because of the help from regen braking.
Im a big fan of tesla since 2006 (when I actualy learn about it) and Im more then very happy to read customer tought about the REAL car and the company!! You are so lucky to have one of those Roadster! Have lots of fun with your new hot electric sport car and thanx for sharing your experience. Hopefully, one day I will be able to afford a cheaper model.
I would love to be scared out in the passenger seat or behind the wheel of any Tesla Roadster car!!!
Post more stories if you can and try to drive safe!
Long live Tesla! Well done Elon and the entire Tesla team! Keep up the good work!!
Francois
Hmmm … I wonder how many hamsters would you need to recharge Roadster in one night. Or how many hours would I need to cycle on my Ergometer to do that same. ;-P
Tesla’s business model does shine a glaring light on the failing business model of the big 3. Independent dealerships and a union workforce are the two worst aspects of their current structuring, but so many other things need to be addressed.
It really takes the emergence of Tesla Motors, Fisker Automotive, Aptera, etc. to challenge the big 3 to truly reorganize.
You touched on a very important point, and that is that they cut out the middle man. It is not only a great way to control the brand experience, but helps with quality control as well. The world needs less layers.
It’s really exciting now that people are actually starting to take delivery in greater numbers. Can’t wait to actually see one of these on the road. Congratulations!
Good descriptions of the thrill one must have. Turns me a shade greener.
#”Independent dealerships and a union workforce are the two worst aspects of their current structuring”
Now Saturn was originally a UAW owned company with the aim of making a better car & company. Given their original “indestructible” (shopping cart proof) body panels & other things, they were moderately succesful (admitedly the panels did not fit as tightly as metal due to shirinkage of the polymer over time). After the UAW sold controlling interest to GM they have been homogenized into the regular GM auto complex and the unique features have gone away. Thing is the Union is not to blame there (other than for selling control of the business). The management of the Big 3 would like everyone to think the UAW is to blame - that lets them off the hook. By making that statement, you appear to have taken the bait & swallowed the hook, line & sinker. Much of their woes are common to many industries and government in making pension plans too lavish compared to ability to sustain them with long life expectancies and a changing economy. 1950’s thinking in a 1990’s world.
First roadaccident didn´t take long to happen, perhaps owners should have a CD with engine noise in the stereo.
www.wreckedexotics.com/tesla/tesla_20080729_001.shtml
Timo: I don’t know how many hamsters it would take to recharge overnight, but give a mated pair of hamsters a really big cage, lots of food and some privacy, and in a year or so you’d be bound to have enough! As for the exercycle idea, well, steady pedaling could generate about 100 watts. The Roadster uses approx. 240 watt hours per mile, so pedaling for 1 1/2 hours could give enough juice for a mile, 6 hours of pedaling would give you 4 miles. Hey, it would be quicker to just ride a bike!
Look I love your car I love the concept. Well build the everyman model. Be the future in the american auto industry. Pitch this power train to Obama. We the average JOE need the jobs and need this vehical.
Tesla Roadster Sport specs are impressive. Is this drivetrain going to be available for sale to larger automakers?
I read today that Elon Musk confirmed at the Detroit Auto Show that Tesla will be supplying energy storage and drivetrain components to Daimler for a SMART EV. I’m surprised not to see the same headline here at the Tesla website, or a corresponding new blog thread.
While I think that partnering with a major auto maker to accelerate the availability of more affordable, quality EVs is an excellent move, I can’t help but wonder what the Tesla-Daimler arrangement augurs for the future prospects of the Model S or BlueStar. Or for that matter, for the future of Tesla as an independent concern. We really need an independent player that is focused on and dedicated to pure EVs to be profitable and stay in the game, if for no other reasons than to keep the big boys honest and rub their noses in some of the nonsense they spew from time to time. Even better would be if Tesla could continue to amass world-leading expertise in EV technologies through muscular research, and periodically “productize” and prove the market-worthiness of what Detroit might have at one time dismissed as mere “concept cars.” Demonstrate what is possible, not only in terms of technology and engineering, but also in terms of discovering and satisfying pent-up demand, achieving marketplace acceptance for new vehicles and new classes of vehicles, etc.
As always, good luck, Tesla!
Read the announcement of the sale of battery packs and propulsion systems for the Mercedes Smart Car. Is the system that you’re selling to Mercedes based on the original Roadster, or the Roadster Sport?
What a great idea. An electric sportscar that can accelerate faster than a traditional hydrocarbon powered vehicle and has a decent range. One question, does it come with a periscope so that the driver doesn’t have to look at the rear bumper of all the monster trucks ( SUV’s) that currently infest the roads?
Scott, as an entrepreneur, what are your thoughts on galvanizing a change in the US auto industry ? Whether stagnation is perpetuated by the corporations or the unions or independent dealerships seems irrelevant - when Pear Harbor was attacked, the US “retooled” and transformed its consumer industries to manufacturing to military specs within a matter of a dozen months. This time around, the attacks on 9/11/01 nor the skyrocketing oil and gas prices barely had any impact on our “captains of industry” or their short and long term strategies. Instead, they just rely on consumer dependency on traditional transportation and energy items and systems, and continue to produce along those lines. I’d say, in fact, that American industry generally is devoid of strategic planning and creative thinking, and that our future economic and environmental security lies in the minds, hearts and hands of entrepreneurs and independent businesses working in coalition to jump start change. While my friends and colleagues and I love the Tesla, we can’t afford the purchase price. As an entrepreneur, how can items of essential change - like Tesla technology cars and alternative energies such as solar - become abundant and available enough to become competitive in price? We want more change and faster change now. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
Kristie;
Take a look at focusfusion.com ; it will change the energy landscape beyond all recognition within 5-8 years.
Imagine 1¢ power cost per 5-10 miles in the Roadster, e.g.
Brian H…..
I think the website you wanted was focusfusion.org instead of the “dot com” website that is a domain name squatter right now.
If I were to place my money on a technology that is likely to bring successful fusion, I would push more for the Polywell approach as opposed to the Focus Fusion (or “Dense plasma focus”) approach, but I think both are infinitely better than the tokamak approach.
Really, for an electric car it doesn’t matter how the power is generated… just that it is and is converted to electrical power in some fashion. That is the #1 reason why an electric vehicle is superior to any internal combustion engine (even hydrogen or alcohol) technology, as you aren’t stuck to a single source of energy. Solar, wind, tidal, fusion, fission, or even traditional coal powered generation plants can all be used to power the vehicles and it doesn’t have to be disruptive to switch from one fuel source to another in an emergency.
Competition from alternative energy sources will keep all forms of energy at reasonable prices…. or have those energy sources be driven from the market place if they can’t be maintained.
The roadster is only the beginning. If there is a natural magnetic field that is always at work, why can’t we incorprate that into electric vehicles? Or gears that are embossed into the axles of the vehicles that power the batteries? You can have that one for free tesla and your welcome.
Scott:
I agree; this is the most exciting car for its time since the model-T, and the Shelby Cobra. Quality, performance, plus the magic of green. I love the car in almost every way. It would be nice if they look at the Miata folding hard-top; for some inspiration in that direction. If Tesla could make a little hatchback, with a quarter of the power; the same range; and under 25,000; they could sell them as fast as they could make them.
zachary blundell: A magnetic field is like the gravitational field, its ability to generate power is limited by the distance of attraction. It would be like gravity powering a car by rolling downhill - great, until you get to the bottom and there is no more “downhill” left, then you must apply a lot of energy to haul the car back up the hill to go again. A magnet can produce some power attracting a piece of steel, until they touch and bottom out, then it takes energy to pull them apart again. Worse, the amount of energy you could get from even a very powerful magnet is utterly insufficient to propel a car more than a few inches.
As for your other idea, anything attached to the axle that produces electricity will produce electrodynamic drag and slow down the car, that is how the regenerative brakes on the Tesla Roadster work. Now regenerative braking is great when you want to slow down and stop, but it is bad when you want to speed up or just cruise along at a constant speed. We don’t want to drive with the brakes on!
I was wondering about the possible use of thin film solar technology on one of these cars, and how much it might increase the range. There is a lot of top down real estate for it. I don’t know how much the cost would benefit the result, but if you have any numbers for that I would be interested. Also how efficient are the generators for deceleration compared to other electric/hybrid cars? I came up with the a few concepts of that technology right when I heard about hybrids in high school more than a few years back.
This cars are amazing though, and I have heard nothing but great things about them.
Robert;
The Polywell approach shares a need for steady-state plasma control with the Tokamak, and a generator is a multi-million dollar product, probably 10-100x the cost of a standard FocusFusion product. (And of course you’re right about the address. Late night blogging is my only excuse!)
FF has now been funded, and is likely to be off and running first, in any case. With it’s much lighter capital and pricing footprint, it will render the question moot.
Hello Tesla team,
Seams like this would be a good time to revisit and finish Nikola Tesla’s vision (at Wardenclyffe) of world electric power. Your cars powered by the sun (Through the solar winds interacting with the earths magnetic field and taped by a Warrenclyffe style facility as envisioned by Tesla) would be an historic earth saving event.
You have the talent, financial resources and need for this vision to come become a reality.
Good luck,
Bill
So, if by some miracle I owned a Tesla Roadster to whip all aroound here in the Boston area, I would want big, proud decals that say, “100% Electric; NO Gasoline” to stick right on the sides so everyone who gawks can fully understand, and crave!
In 1972 my father had a dream about Tesla Motors. He scribbled Tesla Motors down on a piece of paper along with any thing he could remember about the dream. I was 19 years old when he gave me the piece of paper and told me not to forget the name and search for the company. I’m now 56 and my father passed away 14 years ago. I have been following Tesla Motors for years. This company’s future will be phenomenal. The world will be forever grateful to Tesla for their dedication and vision of a better future. Thanks for the ride!
Sharon! What else did he write down? Was any of it relevant or accurate?
I really liked your article. Nice work!
Tesla, get the lead out.. the big three are down and all you need is a model for the masses. These luxury sports cars are great, but don’t let this moment pass you by. Do you need more money? What is holding this back? How about you put out a conversion kit for other cars based on engine size.. that may be one route. You can take it. I want to feel good about buying an American car again… Who wants to buy from a company that whines when they come out with the Hummer and sales start to slump. I’m just anxious and a bit frustrated that things are moving so slow and now the government is making me pay for incompetence.
Well, I see how this car is great if you have a lot of money, but it does nothing for those of us who are too poor to own one.
Has anyone my size (6′2″ - 250lbs) sat in a Tesla? The problem I have is that if the interior isn’t designed correctly I stick out of the top of the car - looking like some guy at the circus driving a clown car!
Tim,
I’m 6′4″ - 215 lbs and fit ok (no extra headroom but enough) and I’ve had plenty of folks with your dimensions in my car. It’s actually pretty roomy for such a tiny car. If you’re in the LA or SF areas sometime, you should try to stop by one of the Tesla stores to try one on for size.
Have these engins been tested in a small aircraft? I know nothing about aircraft, cars or engins but if the car can reach these speeds in such a short time and with the right design and the light weight…
Wow! another awesome car… Darn! You’re so rich, man! It’s great to have that..
To those who complain about this car being only for the rich. Be thankful that the rich are willing to buy it. New technology always costs a lot and that is why the plasma and large LCD TVs are so expensive at first, then as the years go by the price comes down. If the rich people decided to wait for the price to come down, it never would.
Nick: some people are building electric airplanes, not with Tesla engines however. www.aeroconversions.com/e-flight/
Thank you Roy.
I love it! Wish i could afford to get one. How can i invest in this company? Everything i’ve read about this company and car sounds like what people told Henry Ford before he made the first car. PLEASE keep me informed on investment oppurtunities…Thank you!!!
My name is Stoian Kalniev. I have traveled all over the world and have family members working for the UN on sustainability and environmental projects. I have sent an e-mail to Tesla some months ago, but never received a reply.
Because of my family, we are very knowledgeable about “green tech”, and currently I live in Thailand. The Asian market is the one that is expanding very rapidly and welcomes current and new car makers into the market, with promise of profits (i.e. India, China, Japan being a car lover country, etc.). However, these countries really need to see the benefits of both Tesla models. I have been going around import companies and asking them if they know about electric cars and they look very puzzled.
You must enter this market if you want to finish your financial debts, reduce costs to make the vehicles cheaper
and make your product awareness and eventually conquer the vehicle industry. I also know that you get your batteries (maybe most of them) from the Thai market. If you open a factory here, you will drastically reduce your costs, allowing for a broader consumer range.
There are more reasons for me to explain why you should enter this market. Please reply to me to know if this plan is sound, so that I may build my confidence of one day seeing a Tesla (the sweetest, hottest, most useful car on earth) with my own 2 eyes on these roads.
Thank you and hope to hear from you soon
How do I get on the wait list for the car? I do not want to give someone 5 thousand ahead of time in hopes to get a car… This reminds me of a ponzi racket. (give me 5 thousand and we promise to get you a car..) Yea right.. ! Park a car in front of me and finance it like all the rest.. With all the companies going belly up.. and all the battery companies like 123abc/nano battery companies going in the toilet.. Its easy enough to pull a credit score on anyone..I guess if chevy volt comes out first or another dependable car or if someone is savy enough to start stripping down small ranger trucks (there is a cheap ford ranger plant closing near my house that would be a great place to convert old cars to nano electric cars). Hmm? stimulus money?? Hmm? how do I get that money to re-tool the ford ranger plant here in Minnesota.
Oh.. one big question.. How does 40 below zero weather effect the battery performance here in the tundra of Minnesota?? I know that batteries lose up to 50% charge on a cold day? Since its below freezing half the year.. will the battery be insulated somehow so the battery does not lose its charge??
I know, tons of questions and ideas.. but hey.. In todays times.. these are the questions we need to ask before opening up our wallets. Gotta run and earn a reals days pay being a teacher. Dan
THESE are the cars we’ve needed for more than 20 years. The design team has done an outstanding job of creating a truly BEAUTIFUL ride, not a cookie cutter “econobox” car like most of the rest I’m seeing on the roads these days. I can’t tell the difference between a Camry and a Mercedes anymore. I’m just a blue-collar guy and would LOVE to grab an S when they come out, but I could only potentially afford one of these if it were priced 60-70% less that I’m seeing talked about. Sad reality for me. But I’m still very excited about the fully electric concept, with the range and charge times you guys have created… it’s GREAT! Kudos to the entire company! NOW if we can get someone to build my concept Jeep with an e-motor for each drive wheel.. WHEE!!! A true 4wheel drive and torque galore. THAT’s the ticket. Keep up the good work!
I was looking through teslamotors.com at the cars and the information. It all seemed great until I saw that the cars top speed is limited. Why put all kinds of power into a car then limit a car to a set top speed? Can a car be purchased without a speed limiter? I once drove a chevy silverado and was very disapointed when the engine cut off at 98mph.
I was wondering, what is the monthly insurance cost for something like this? Or is that a moot point given that there are so few of them in existence?
I just heard about Tesla for the frist time today from a Client. I live in Panama City, Panama. Any thoughts of opening a factory store here? We have the second largest Free Trade Zone in the World. Tesla’s could be shipped from the Zone to anywhere in the World and there would be no tax on export profits. I would be interested in speaking with you more about business prospects. Please e-mail me a copy of your Car Reservation Contract. Thanks.
I was just looking at the new sedan design on the Tesla website. Body design is part of Tesla’s thing: just ‘cuz it’s electric doesn’t mean it can’t be sexy. But I have to tell you guys, with it’s heavy front end, high waist-line and low roof this design seems already dated. The glass roof, taking on extra weight and extra air-conditioning load so that the driver and passengers can get cooked from above, that’s just foolish.
You’ve made the impractical roadster. This time around, hold the line on price and give us a real world car.
Mark A Young, Tesla has limited car top speed because it has to. If you get unlimited RPM you end up with broken engine. 120mph at 14kRPM is quite enough. You could get higher top speed by lowering acceleration so that you get wider speed range using same RPM range, but who needs over 120mph speeds? I think that even that is overkill speed. You don’t need much over 100mph speeds ever. That is unless you are racing. Roadster got same time in race track as Porsche GT3 even with limited top speed, so that should show that speed isn’t everything.
how dose the model s fit 7 people
Tesla you are the future, you are the best. Great lookinf design and great features.
I hope to own a S model , 2012 or sooner .
I have put a down payment on a Model S and am seriously hoping that the All-Wheel Drive availability is made a reality. I love the handling of AWD and am willing to pay extra for it and give up the forward cargo space to make room for another motor. I am digging this car so much, I would love to see it in person. I currently have a reservation for #51 of 99 of a Signature Edition car from another company that shall remain nameless, and they are starting to not live up to their mantra of “Simply World Class”. Now I do not have to put up with an bull from them if they don’t start treating me right soon, they are going to find themselves a customer who wants his money back. Kudos on having over 500 reservations in the first week. At that rate you’ll have over 27000 in a year, which is way more than the 1300+ that someone else has.
Ian;
2 front, 3 back, 2 child seats in convertible rear storage age.
Frank S;
As I suggested to someone else, to invest now, buy several each prepaid Roadster, Sport, and ‘S’ car reservations, hold on to them for a while till there are lots of people after you in line, and then auction your holdings. Let us know what price you get; I’ll bet you do pretty well!
Hi ready to buy an S .
In Australia (right hand drive like England and a few other counties) Could we please have Australia added to the order list, even if its 6-12 months after US .
IF United Kindom can have them as part of Europe, just allow 100 -500 for Australia…please?
Cheers - Marty -
Are either of these two forwards true?
1) What if the spinning rotor of a jet airplane engine created enough electricity to power your car? If the rotor were wound with copper, and attached to a friction conductor that generates electricity, the engine could do just that Tesla Motors, the upstart Southern California car manufacturer of fully electric automobiles, has announced that its latest model, the “Model S”, will feature a removable battery pack. This will allow its cars to swap batteries at charging stations, instead of waiting the minimum 45 minutes to recharge the car’s fully depleted battery.
Engineers envision that these depleted battery packs could be bundled together in packs of five or ten at the charging stations, ferried to the closest airport, stored in the belly of a jet airplane, and charged from the friction conductors of the jet engine.
While the jet engine uses slightly more fuel to generate the power and carry the additional weight of the battery pack, the power it generates is a net surplus of energy.
Tesla is pushing for a uniform battery pack size and shape that other manufacturers of electrically powered cars and other machinery would use, so that the batteries can be widely distributed for recharging in this manner. This would also give the airlines (and jet engine manufacturers) an additional source of desperately needed revenue.
2) If wind can generate electricity, how much electricity can be generated from a 737 flying from Los Angeles to Chicago? Enough, say engineers from Quantumco, a Kansas City, KS-based “Green” company, to power the future of the automobile industry.
Tesla Motors, the upstart Southern California car manufacturer of fully electric automobiles, has announced that its latest model, the “Model S”, will feature a removable battery pack. This will allow its cars to swap batteries at charging stations in minutes, instead of waiting the minimum 45 minutes to recharge the car’s fully depleted battery.
Engineers envision that these depleted battery packs could be bundled together in packs of five or ten at the charging stations, ferried to the closest airport, stored in the belly of a jet airplane, and charged from the mini wind turbines built into the wings and fuselage of the airplane.
While the jet engine uses slightly more fuel to generate the power and carry the additional weight of the battery pack, the power it generates is a net surplus of energy.
Tesla is pushing for a uniform battery pack size and shape that other manufacturers of electrically powered cars and other machinery would use, so that the batteries can be widely distributed for recharging in this manner. This would also give the airlines (and airplane manufacturers) an additional source of desperately needed revenue.
Oh, its is a fantastic car !! I love Tesla motors.
Jeff Brown: No, not exactly. Jet engines often do have a generator attached, but it is there to power the electrical devices on the plane, and it does increase fuel consumption in proportion to the electrical demand. Using jets to recharge EV car batteries is totally impractical - the weight is too high, the fuel cost is too great, and the logistics would be a total nightmare.
Jet engines are just compact lightweight gas turbine engines designed for aircraft. There are also gas turbines specially designed for electrical power generation on the ground, they can use efficiency boosting devices that are far too large and heavy for use on an airplane. So, these gas turbine generators are a lot more efficient and much better suited to provide electricity for recharging car batteries - and you don’t have to worry about your car batteries getting stuck in a snowed in airport halfway across the country!
While Tesla Motors is planning an easy to swap battery for the Model S, it will be recharged right at the “swap station” to make it ready for the next customer. It would be downright silly to pack it to the nearest airport and load it onto a plane for charging.
Silly? Hmmm, did you check the date on that “forward”? Was it perhaps dated April 1, also known as “April Fools Day?
hi, in the past i have offered suggestions on how to make a vehicle that charges itself as you drive. one was putting a alternater on each wheel base so as you drove the vehicle it would charge itself. someone spmewhere was kind enough to tell me that the energy exchange was in the negative and wasn’t viable. but i was wondering if you applied the physics of super conductivity to the alternater if it wouldn’t put the energy curve in favor of the user. if i understand right super conductivity hyper energizes electricity. if you could apply s.c. to the alternaters would it be enough to maintain the charge on the battery system so you never have to stop. thanks for your time randolph ehmann p.o.box1654 westwood ca. 96137
randolph ehmann: Superconductivity doesn’t “hyper energize” electricity, it simply removes all electrical resistance. An alternator made with superconductive wiring attached to the axles would still slow the car down when generating electricity, just at 100% efficiency rather than 90% to 96% efficiency for regular alternators. There would still be losses to aerodynamic drag, and there is no known way of making a “superconductive” battery, so there would be losses in the battery, too. Sorry, superconductivity won’t provide unlimited driving, just better efficiency.
There are two main problems with using superconductive materials. One is that they are expensive, and the other is that they are only superconductive at extremely low temperatures, under -290 F (-183 celsus) and it takes a lot of energy to maintain that chilly temperature - in most cases, far more energy would be needed for refrigeration than could be saved by higher efficiency.
this is where we need to be, but halibut at this price america will never make it… we can make these cars where ordinary americans can afford to buy them
I like these cars, but they are really expensive, so I don’t think I will be getting one for my 16th Birthday!
tesla is great. also, i am allergic to gasoline and that is why i have to smoke cigarettes. tesla electric, more power to you!
Me;
No, you’ll have to stick with Hot Wheels for a year or two yet.
Me;
You should practice with worst possible car you can find first. When you are able to do controlled slide without using handbrake with weak *front*-wheel drive car during winter you might be ready to learn how to handle Roadster
.
Try old Fiat 127. Those are fun in ice-tracks.
I was already impressed with the roadster but after seeing the report of the S model, it just took my breath away. I’m so happy that a company like Tesla has been able to show the so called big companies that the technology is here, it works and is payable ( or will be when enough have been bought ) .
As long as we have petrol ( oil ) , we will not see other companies going into zero emissions.( Hybrid is just as far as they will go)
I know for sure, as soon as the price is right ( for me ) it’s going to be a Tesla S model.
Please keep up the good work and I hope the world market opens just for you.
I notice when I am in the mountains, I have a lot of up hill driving, and then a lot of down hill driving. When you go up hill, you would use the normal battery power to move the car. While going down hill, because of the inertia of the car going down, by energizing two DC Generators, one in each wheel, you would be using the inertia of the car going down hill to charge the batteries. This is a little like regenerative breaking, where you generate electricity when you put on the break and slow down, but different in that you use the inertia of the downward pull of the car as your car travels down hill for 1/2 an hour to an hour, to charge your battery pack, thus use the generated power going down hill, without use of breaking, to charge. When the car leveled out, those generators would be electronicly turned off, and they would be in free spin mode, creating little or no drag on the battery system, other than the actual weight difference of the casing of the aluminum generators, and windings. The more passenger weight you have in the car, the more electricity generated on your down hill quest. With this type system, you still would have to charge on occasion, but less often. If you took a short straight freeway to the top of a hill where you work, and then took the lazy windy downhill road home, that took you 1/2 hour longer, you may never have to charge your car, or at least less often. This is a little like an electric light, attached to your wheel on a bicycle. While you are pumping along on the level you need to use the battery or your legs to pump the bike, but the light is on all the time. When you go down hill, you no longer have to pump, but just coast for miles ,and the light works all the way down the hill, using the inertia of the weight of the bicycle to propel you along, and light the way.
You’ve obviously paid attention to details - such as doorhandles - to make the car aerodynamic. So, why does your car still have conventional side mirrors? Why not use tiny “spy” cameras, connected to LCD monitors inside the car? Various car makers have talked for ages about eliminating side mirrors, yet no has done so. Why???
Ronald Wose, whether the descent was short and steep or long and gradual, the total energy would be the same - except driving the longer route would encounter more rolling resistance, thus suffer greater energy losses. Of course, it is nice that EVs and hybrids can recapture that energy, and not waste it heating up the brake pads the way other cars do.
Doug, the reason why Tesla is using rear-view mirrors instead of closed circuit cameras is that the cameras and monitor screens use some power and the reduction in drag is small, it wouldn’t save enough energy to be worth the additional cost. Also, most vehicle codes require external side view mirrors, anyway. Aptera was originally planning rear-view cameras, but switched to conventional rear view cameras instead, for the same reasons.
Just saw the NBC Dateline show and story on Tesla (May 10, 2009) yes, we’re a little slower on the uptake here in Florida…but, we’ve not yet heard anyone say what the cost is to recharge the batteries overnight, assuming a nearly full charging is needed. I know it differs by utility provider, but how about a hi-low range. Thanks. John & Megan, Naples, Florida.
looks great, well thought out. i am going to wait for the sedan in 2011.
John Barr, it takes about 60kWh to charge from empty to full. Use your utility provider prices and count yourself. One kWh here in Finland costs about 0.10 euros (full cost with taxes), so from empty to full would cost here six euros which is about eight US dollars.
John Barr, how much it would take to recharge each night depends on how much driving you did that day. Figure about 220 watt-hours (0.22 Kwh) per mile, perhaps a bit more if you habitually drive fast, multiplied by your average daily drive, and that would give you the number of watthours needed to recharge each night. Divide by 1,000 to get Kilowatt-hours, then multiply that by your local electric rates.
In my case, it would be: Average 8 miles a day x 220 = 1,760 watt-hours or 1.76 Kwh
1.76 Kwh x $0.11 = $0.1936 or about 20 cents a day, about $70 per year
Compared to $180 per year for gas for my hybrid, or $409 a year for some SUV
Of course, if you typically drive more your savings could be even greater.
GM can bust so all the exemployees can work for Tesla, and all the exemployees from Chrysler as well. Then the world will be a different place to drive on.
I love the car,but i am short on $$$ to buy.
I aslo think “I can give you a longer drive time on your charge”,and keep the speed!!!
It is simple if you think about it.
Tesla, the new generation transport. Give yourself a big pat on the back Tesla and also buyers like Scott Painter, these are some of the folks that are leading the way towards a cleaner future. These are exciting times for the auto industry and the big boys are going to have to pull out all stops to keep up with the independents.
The writing is on the wall loud and clear for the oil companies, maybe that explains the thought behind Dubai, if they don’t want our oil we’ll get their vacation dollars.
Would like to congratulate Tesla Motors on its success so far! Im sure these beautifully designed and engineered vehicles will grow in popularity over the next couple of years. I live just outside of Toronto,Ontario,Canada and hope these vehicles get the exposure here where I feel people are very concerned about the state of the enviroment and look for efficient forms of transportation.
I will keep an eye out for a sales rep. position once you start sales in Canada. This would be an exciting industry to be involved in, in a time where the enviroment is on everyones mind.
Once again congratulations to all at Tesla Motors!
Congratulations Tesla. Model S is now my dream car. Now if only I can dig up some $$$ to afford/finance it.
The proliferation of electric powered vehicles may be helped if Tesla had an electric powered boat. It would be easier to bring to market due to less safety and performance issues that cars have. Once the public sees that the technology works there would be greater demand for it. A high profile electric yacht would do the trick.
Like Tesla, I too have started a company devoted to boldly supporting American technological leadership in the struggle against our proliferation of greenhouse gases and Petro-dominance from abroad. As an inventor & Mechanical Engineer promoting our IVT for vehicles, I’ve been intensely studying the automotive market with my partners. Our interest is in transmissions for hybrid & CE engine-propelled vehicles that can improve efficiency, but may improve electric motor efficiency, as well. So, yesterday I decided to look carefully at Tesla. Tesla sales staff, in Menlo Park, was gracious enough to lend my daughter & me a Tesla Roadster for a long test drive. We took it through its paces with my hot-rod daughter initiating the drive with a blast out of the parking lot. Holy ****!!! We both love speed. What a rush! I used to race, so have driven many very fast cars. This Tesla takes the cake! Tesla’s recommended test route takes you through the great winding foothill roads of Woodside. Perfect. Except I noticed a few police cruisers with radar parked along the route. After a few curves, noticed a cruiser behind us and alerted my speed-happy daughter just in time. We passed a couple of other Tesla test-drivers waving enthusiastically. Johnny Law has discovered a source of revenue!
The Tesla is wonderfully unique to drive. Acceleration from any speed is dangerously exhilarating. When you let off the pedal, the regenerative braking takes over intuitively with perfect braking action. I believe we actually used the brake pedal about four times through the city part of the drive because the re-gen will take you down to about 2 MPH on its own! These qualities grow on you in a good way very soon. Being an engineer, I’m very critical of the design of machines, and usually expect disappointment; the Tesla driving experience reversed all of my negative expectations. The experience is much like driving a go-cart for grown-ups. It’s very responsive in every way. My only gripe is that it doesn’t accommodate my 6′- 2″ frame too well, so it could use a more spacious cockpit & higher windshield.
The Tesla toyed with a two-speed transmission which broke several times under the awsome torque of their electric motor. Their goal was to keep 0-60 acceleration time below 4 seconds, and get better top end, but they opted for more AC synchronous motor windings, beefier drive electronics and a Borg-Warner single speed transaxle instead; I’m guessing for the sake of simplicity. I suspect that our IVT would give them even better performance without breaking because of elimination of shock loads associated with discreet gears. Their excellent design is inspiring. If we can introduce our IVT to emulate the intuitive driving feel of the Tesla in other types of vehicles, we should also succeed.
I sent in my deposit but have not received a priority number. Supposed to happen something this month.
Wondering what you think about the new Lithium-sulphur battery developed by Sion. They are reporting a potential 3 times the driving range of the conventional Lithium batteries currently being used by Tesla. I have a 400 mile trip I regularly need to make each month. I will certainly accept a 45 min recharge to finish my trip…….but hope by the time I take delivery the range is extended to the “magic” 400 mile range.
No electric car technology is as impressive as Tesla Motors. I have wondered why some of the designs do not incorporate solor panels in a sun roof, solar panels as part of the flat hood/trunk body panels or a custom spoiler with a wind turbine built inside to charge the battery while driving. With solar panels on the car it would be nice to have the potential to get the car off of the electric grid by recharging the battery while sitting in a sunny parking lot. The ultimate electric car dream has to be a Tesla that has the potential to recharge it’s batteries with solar panels exisitng on the car itself. A Tesla with all solar body panels?
Bradley Watts: I am first time reading this forum about Tesla (Croatian national) cars. Your idea about yacht is greatest of all.
These guzzlers at sea in my country which is heaven for boating are contributing CO2 much more than cars. Believe that making
E-drive for boating industry would be of much less challenge because batteries can be of different types, less expensive. Even overall cost would be less than motor drive train. Mr. Watts you deserve “1st prize” for such idea.
halibut impressed with Tesla! The Roadster looks great, but the Model S is the vehilce that intrigues me the most. I would love to own one of those. I wish I could be part of this somehow. Tesla seems like a great and promising company to work for. Keep up the great work!
BTW, if you need someone in your purchasing department I am your man!
see; www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/breathing-batteries/
This potentially new battery technology could mean that Tesla’s battery pack would weigh 100 lbs, instead of 900 lbs. The roadster would then weigh about 1800 lbs, and accelerate & handle even better and have better range! Tesla engineers: hire this guy!
Barry A. Simkins; that link you provided is pretty impressive advancement. Since that talks about cathode change and that silicon nanomaterial that also increases potential capacity 10-fold is anode, combining these two (if possible) could mean realization of actual 10-fold increase in capacity. So instead of 200Wh/kg you get 2000Wh/kg.
That 4000mA/g slightly too impressive. If that is for (usual) 3.5V then that means 14000Wh/kg or or 14kWh/kg. That would be *VERY* impressive, but in next sentence it says “…roughly eight times that of a cellphone battery…”. 1/8 of that 14kWh/kg is 1750Wh/kg, which would already be revolutionary. I think prototype is more like 400mAh/g which would make more sense. Typo in article I think.
Any plans for hiring sales/service staff as well as drivers and other necessary personnel?
Barry A. Simkins; found better explanation of that battery www.epsrc.ac.uk/PressReleases/oxlithbattery.htm
That says (still typo) “capacity to weight ratio of 1,000 milli-amp / hours per gram of carbon” (should be 1000mAh/g not 1000mA/h/g), so that talks about capacity compared to weight of carbon used, not weight of entire battery or even weight of cathode alone.
Timo; I’m optomistically assuming a ninefold increase in energy density without regard to differences in battery mass. The site you refer to sites 5-10X increase in energy storage, so I also assume a proportional increase in power density too. Therefore, it may not be the case that discharge rates concur to support such increases in power, but if not, range would increase significantly. That new technology should increase both, in one way or another. Motor characteristics will also enter into the formula for overall performance. STAIR research ends in 2011, giving Tesla some time to evaluate the STAIR results (and others), and respond systemically if desired.
Such advances in battery technology are likely accelerating in other research centers. I was caught off-guard by this, thinking that batteries have had more than a century to become optimized, and are near the end of the road. Apparently the recent revolution in nanotechnology (which I’d been involved with once) is producing technical synergies that are moving battery design at a much faster pace now. My M.E. prejudice against electrical solutions is due for an overhaul! After studying the impressive Pentadyne flywheel energy storage UPS system that uses an AC synchronous motor/generator like Tesla’s, I was struck by the Pentadyne CTO’s disclosure to me that overall regenerative braking efficiency is about 70%-75%. [note: Pentadyne converts electrical energy to kinetic flywheel energy, and then back to electrical energy using regenerative braking at ~190 kW]. If Tesla’s regenerative braking is as efficient as that, and batteries can be as energy-dense as STAIR predicts, then electric cars wil take over the world soon. If Tesla can figure a way to significantly speed up battery charging too, the world will be their oyster.
What I want to know is, when will we see the first Roadster retro-fitted with scissor doors (yuk,yuk)!
Clarification. Tesla uses an asynchronous AC motor, whereas Pentadyne uses a synchronous AC motor. Tesla claims 85%-95% motor efficiency. Can anyone tell us what the regenerative braking efficiency is? What is the ‘generator’ and battery efficiency as a system?
Above, Barry S.S. mentions his company’s IVT. Stands for “Infinitely Variable Transmission”, a way of using only the RPMs and torque necessary to maintain or increase speed as needed. Its benefits and application would be somewhat different in the electric motor context than with a geared ICE motor, tho’.
What company, Barry? Torotrak?
replying to the post about ” we don’t want to drive with the brakes on”.
Would a simple solution be a counterweighted flywheel that kept spinning once you got going?
Barry A. Simkins; Depends how you measure that efficiency. If you calculate how much energy you get back from what you have lost, then there are all losses in play and you have pretty low figure (battery->engine->tires->aerodynamic->ancillary->tires->generator->battery) which gives at best about 80% no matter how you calculate, in most cases much less. If you calculate only generator efficiency then it is pretty much same as engine efficiency IE. 95%. You lose very little in charging batteries, if I recall correctly, battery efficiency is over 95% so 5%+5% = 10% inverted 90%.
Brian H: Our company is SIMKINETICS, a very early phase partnership looking for funding and/or grants to launch our SIVAT; we have a small proof-of-principle prototype with very high torque density, unachievable with Torotrac’s traction drive. SIVAT advantages for an AC Induction Motor are the same as you mention for ICE’s, except in different ways. Remember that Tesla tried a two-speed for good reasons that high torque on a flat curve is only good in a limited motor-speed range. Our IVT can ‘tailor’ that curve on output to optimize vehicle kinetics in terms of acceleration, top speed & efficiency. Tesla’s motor & battery pack could then shrink, and run cooler.
Driving & researching Tesla’s amazing roadster has led me to create a second invention that could also work synergistically with all induction motors, including Tesla’s. Tesla is a transformational enterprise that is initiating and nucleating an array of innovations, like ours. Don’t be surprised if you find several good inventions generated by recent focus on electric vehicles, like Tesla’s. I’d encourage clever Americans to look at electric batteries because *that* is where the need for improvement is greatest, and the opportunity is monumental.
And thanks for explaining IVT. It’s important to understand that its output speed can be continuously varied down to zero, giving it infinite bandwidth, not unuseful for a Tesla.
Timo: Overall efficiency of the Tesla Drive system is certainly improved by its regenerative braking. The AC induction motor as a generator is dependent on speed, & load as it is as a prime mover in terms of efficiency. Researching this indicates that various sources of information give various figures for such generator efficiency, and I haven’t seen many speed/efficiency curves on it yet (none with load considerations). One credible source rates this efficiency at 55%-65% overall. A personal source at Emerson Electric says it’s in the mid 80’s.
Another variable is battery efficiency. Charging efficiency of Lithium Ion batteries is optimally about 98%, but batteries self-discharge over time, losing a few percent of charge per day. The Tesla battery cooling system exacts another cost on efficiency with a coolant pump that operates after shut-down, operating at about 150+ watts for hours.
General efficiency calculations must consider losses as each efficiency node multipied by each, in series; in other words, if you have two loss nodes at 5% each, then each efficiency is 95%, so their net efficiency is .95 X .95, which equals 90.25%. Splitting hairs! Total Tesla drive efficiency is doubtfully ever 80%, but you are correct about it being much less. But so what? If you compare it to efficiency of ICE propelled cars whose calculations must start with engines with adiabatic efficiencies of only about 25% (gasoline), and then multiply in all of their other drivetrain & ‘well-to-wheel’ efficiencies, which are also pretty low, Tesla is a stellar performer by comparison. Most ICE cars do not even have regenerative braking, only possible with Hybrids that use electric motor/generators; The Prius (Hybrid) regenerative braking is about 36% efficient, pale in comparison with Tesla’s of at least 55%. Tesla’s drive & regenerative braking will, no doubt, improve with additional engineering. The happy bonus is that Tesla’s regenerative braking also makes the car more drivable!
Before someone corrects me, that 5% + 5% isn’t exact, because one of those is 95% out of 95% inverted.
I think your company is great and I personally would like to see Tesla Motors vehicles everywhere world wide. I do have one opinion and I think Tesla Motors need to put it in motion on all vehicles. What about wind turbines to create electricity while vehicle are being driven. Why not harness the wind while the vehicle is ripping through the air. Make the vehicle even greater. Make the wind turbines aerodynamic to where there is very little drag on the car and capture the wind to produce electricity. Your battery systems can be redesigned to where each battery cell can be recharged once it is used. Just a suggestion like your company and I can’t wait to see your company go full scale. Thank You For Your Time
Richard A Forrester, you are not the first to suggest a wind turbine on the car. Sorry to say it won’t work, you’ve over-estimated the amount of power a small wind turbine can make and overlooked the considerable drag it would produce. The drag of hauling a wind turbine through the air would force the drive motor to work harder and draw more power, more than the small wind turbine could produce. In other words, it would reduce the driving range. Better to put that windmill on a mountaintop tower, where drag doesn’t matter so much
Trust me, the engineers at Tesla Motors are experts, they really know what they are doing.