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Collision Avoidance?

So I did my test drive, and I loved the car.

HOWEVER, I have 2 Chevy Volts and they have collision avoidance, and really don't want to live without Collision avoidance. Has anyone heard a rumor of when that will be incorporated into the car?

When I am tired its a life saver ( I am frequently very jetlagged), Also when I do anything on a touch screen, its nice to have the car looking out for me. I drive through Manhattan on the way to work. I need all the help I can get.

Also, the front lacks a bumper. Anyone had any experience with parallel parking? When the guy infront of you parks by Braille, are you headed to the body shop?

Cheers
Andrew

Wow! The Mobileye is very impressive. There videos were excellent showing how things work.

And this seems like a reasonable cost for the capability.

Right now, the only thing that concerns me is the installation and whether the local installer (Arlington, VA probably) has the skills to do it right.

Alex K - where did you get it installed? I checked awhile ago and the installer said it would not interact with the car for speedometer readings or high beam control. The price was also higher. Thanks

@ | NOVEMBER 17, 2013: Right now, the only thing that concerns me is the installation and whether the local installer (Arlington, VA probably) has the skills to do it right

They have an online installer lookup database, but I can't find it. They do provide an installer list as a PDF file:

http://us.mobileye.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/USA-Instaler-list.pdf

#AAviator -- Regarding parking in NYC --- I've never had a car that was immune to the "braille" parking system so prevalent here. Every time I park my MS on the street you are definitely taking that risk. However, I recently had some other auto body work done in NJ @ Peotter's in Summit (I believe the Springfield service center outsources all body work to them) and they were able to remove the couple of dings that I'd accumulated without any problem whatsoever. Hope this helps.

As to the safety comments -- I pretty much agree that the car should have an accident prevention system standard. It may be the safest car ever tested in an accident but it would still be preferable not to have the accident in the first place! And such a system might have prevented some of the fires that are getting so much press.

You can also buy the Mobileye 550, which does not have the little round display. Do you find the round display useful? It seems like the audible alert is all you really need.

EssDub,

I accept that the car will get dings. I put 25+k miles a year on my cars and expect to get 10 years out of them (I am the poster child for batteries not being an issue in both the Prius and the Volt)

I actually don't mind the dings, they are like shoes, made to be worn out to me (Though the fact that they were able to dent DR. your dings is very nice) I am just concerned about the plastic nose piece being knocked out. That is more than a little parking rash. That it hasn't happened to you is encouraging...

I was just wondering if I needed to get something like "The bumper Bully" for the front of the car if I park it on the street somewhere... That wouldn't be the end of the world either. Just better to know before I come out of Ray's pizza to find the plastic nose piece laying on the asphalt in small pieces...

And you are absolutely correct, that the safest car in the world gets infinitely safer if it never collides in the first place...

AlexK

AWESOME! Thumbs up mate.

Losing/shattering the plastic nose cone is, AFAIK, so far an entirely hypothetical accident. Much cheaper to replace than metal, IAC.

Thanks for the detailed information, Alex K. Very helpful.

Do you know where they connected to the CAN bus?

Agree it would be very useful and add importantly to the safety of the Model S if it had automatic collision avoidance, preferably standard. Couple other things come to mind:

  • Curb weight of your Chevy Volt is about 2,000 pounds lighter (a ton) than that of a Model S
  • Model S is built like a fast tank, structurally does not give much to anything it hits, including (to date) poles, walls, and vehicles such as Honda

You might walk away unscathed from a crash, but anyone you hit might not unless, perhaps, they're also driving a Model S. If someone crashes a commercial jetliner, there's an airline that has to answer for consequences. Different when it's your personal vehicle.

Oh, wait, I remembered wrong. Chevy Volt weighs 3,781 pounds, Model S weighs 4,647 pounds, so the diff is less than I thought.

Gill,

I HATE crashing. I have never had a car or plane accident, and desperately hope to go my entire life without making the news, in a car or plane....

both cars have excellent crash test results. I don't ever want to verify the data with my person....

Brian.

What does the plastic lens cost? if its a 50 dollar sort of thing, who cares then, I will just buy a stack of them and leave em in the Fronk....

The plastic nose cone was $300.00 when quoted in August. They, however, replaced mine for free as if it was damaged before delivery. I love those guys!

@AAviator - sorry in advance for my harsh words coming below. I have been in the offshoring business for 20+ years and this week in China, Saturday in the US and Monday in Europe and then back to Asia. - myself and my employees. We had a loose policy until we almost killed one of our employees - CA boy after 20+ hours travel into Eastern Europe airport we expected him to drive 2+ hours in a rental stick shift car for the first time at night in Winter in a snowstorm to the factory. He ended up in a ditch upside down and they found him next morning barely alive from the the cold. Our company guidance changed fast and radically.

If both pilots fall asleep and crash the plane then you can blame the airline for over working pilots.

But if you after an exhausting work assignment use your personal car in public and kill someone because you are not fit, then the only blame is on you... you made - and only - the decision to drive unfit. What is shocking you can not claim lack of knowledge - you are fully trained, aware of the problem. Being over worked by your employer is no excuse for your personal decisions - stay off the road you share with me and others in that fatigued condition. If you hurt anyone you should get maximum sentence plus 20 years for being a trained proffesional fully aware of your irresponisible behaviour.

chrisdl | NOVEMBER 17, 2013: Do you know where they connected to the CAN bus?

No, I didn't ask them, but the wiring loom that comes with the Mobileye looks like something that taps into wires (there is no CAN bus connector). So, I'm assuming they find the closest CAN bus wiring at tap into that.

@rdalcanto | NOVEMBER 17, 2013: You can also buy the Mobileye 550, which does not have the little round display. Do you find the round display useful? It seems like the audible alert is all you really need.

The audible alert has distinct sounds, so it can be used without the display. The display, does show you the following distance in seconds of the car in front and also shows a constant error display of you are exceeding the speed limit (after the first audible warning). I have it mounted near the rear view mirror, and although it's not in my direct line of sight, it is within my peripheral vision and I see when there is a change in status, like when I'm approaching a car too closely (a red car is displayed).

A small Android device that has Bluetooth capabilities would be ideal to replace the Mobileye display, since the smartphone app displays a lot more information than the small display. The only thing with an external device is that it would be ideal if you could have it automatically connect and run the Mobileye app when it is powered on.

Collision avoidance should be a high priority. I know it would require a hardware install, and I am willing to pay a reasonable (or even unreasonable) sum for it. It's that important.

Kleist: What would have AAviator do after getting home after a long tough trip, (with a few days to a few weeks in a hotel) and have a 20 minute drive to get home? Would you really expect him to buy another hotel room (in his home city) to get a few hours sleep(assuming he COULD sleep, even though extremely tired)? Is that what you do? Or do you just drive home so you can sleep in your own bed? Lets be realistic here. Pretty much anybody getting home from a foreign trip is going to be exhausted on arrival. They all drive home, usually and hopefully safely. But additional safety devices in a car, as in an aircraft, can be a life saver.

PS. DC-10, MD-11, B737, B747 Captain. Been there, done that. Never crashed my plane or my car.

There are taxi cabs at airports.

@Kleist

human error is a common and tragic factor in our lives. But it is there, so anything that shields from it, is not just beneficial, but almost a duty.
So yes, people shouldn't drive when tired, but sometimes it happens to
almost everyone. And most people don't even realize how their blood sugar
fluctuations affect their awareness, or lack of it, etc.

So while one should be responsible, one should also make sure of backups and
redundancy systems. So collision prevention systems are a must and I'm sure
Tesla is working hard on incorporating them into the car. And whoever mentioned
the danger to other traffic participants hitting the Tesla was right.

Just like SUVs, which, on average, sucked at safety for their occupants, so there was no real safety benefit to them, especially early on, were killers of other commuters, in smaller cars. Life happens. Not every day is optimal,
predictable and safe.

I will echo the positive comments on the Mobileye system. I had it installed for $1,200 all in when my Model S arrived in January and couldn't be happier. I had the display mounted in the far left corner of the dashboard at the base of the pillar, and find it very unobtrusive. It is one of those systems that just works, and provides great peace of mind. It doesn't replace driver attentiveness, but it is money well spent in my book.

It's nice to hear systems like Mobileye works. It shouldn't be too hard for Tesla to just buy such system and integral it into the car I would think.

It's amazing how little time it takes for a good idea to degenerate into just plain hard work.

Lighted vanity mirrors shouldn't be hard.
Programmable key fobs to seat positions shouldn't be hard.
Shuffle on USB music shouldn't be hard.
All windows close on fob shouldn't be hard.
Option for auto-dim of mirrors shouldn't be hard.

Hell, Rod and Barbra's entire Priority Software Enhancement list shouldn't be hard.

But things take time.

Enjoy the car the way it is and stop lamenting about what it doesn't have. Nothing good comes of it.

@Alex

Yes, I saw the installer database and used it to contact a local installer. However, I see we have multiple ways of installing so it falls back on the skills of the local people. I would assume the camera location would be the same so they should have a standard way of mounting and wiring.

I just am a little nervous about having someone popping trim and splicing wires in a car which is notorious for lack of documentation about it's systems. (Maybe Mobileye has been able to get documentation from Tesla).

Would be awesome for Tesla to integrate this info into the dash...

Kleist,

You are attempting to defend the indefensible, and insulting me at the same time. The car should have collision avoidance. Its should be mandatory in ALL cars. Its at least as important as seat belts and airbags. Those protect you AFTER the accident, but why not avoid the accident in the first place?

And again, you apparently know very little about true fatigue and how it works, just that you have been tired. Humans are VERY poor judges of their own fatigue state, believe it or not. ANYTHING that helps with it or identifying unexpected or unanticipated fatigue is good.

Again. I have never had an accident. I am VERY careful about it and take all available precautions against fatigue, but it does come up on people. Especially if you operate a vehicle through a WOCL. (Window of Circadian Low) There are two of them a day, and I suspect you need to do some research on it, because I am sure you drive through at least the minor low... Lane departure set to its most sensitive will clue you in before you feel it, and before other cars notice you doing anything funny.

Furthermore, there are many other things that can cause distracted driving even in the best drivers. Ever had kids in your car? Again, something that covers your ass if you look away for a second is GOOD, and needed.

KUDOS to those that have actually posted helpful information on this thread. And the louder and longer the thread gets, I suspect the sooner the Collision avoidance will appear in the car. A car that claims to be the safest car in an accident, should ALSO be the best at avoiding the accident in the first place. Especially since they are under such an absolutely ridiculous microscope with the fires.

Just wait till the inevitable happens and somehow, some first responder who did not follow his training or the very clear instructions of the danger points on the car gets electrocuted. If that accident can be avoided in the first place don't you think that would be better, for all of our sakes (Think insurance costs)?

In the meantime, at least we have identified a method of retrofitting it to the Tesla, and I can only hope that Tesla service doesn't use it as a reason to void a warranty later. The really interesting thing is that it seams to be virtually the same unit that is put in all vehicles for collision avoidance. So its shouldn't be hard to fit into production cars, and then they will be able to use the multi-function displays to give the visual cues, vs the round add on or the cellphone...

The camera unit behind the Rear view mirror, looks identical to the one on my factory installed unit on my volt...

"Enjoy the car the way it is and stop lamenting about what it doesn't have. Nothing good comes of it"

Parking sensor and power folding mirrors are not good?

@carlk. Suggesting improvements and lamenting are totally different.

Barry;
Your one case proves nothing except that not all captains crash planes or cars in X years (where X is the length of your career).

AA;
"A car that claims to be the safest car in an accident, should ALSO be the best at avoiding the accident in the first place." Doesn't follow. A car could be best at one, both, or neither. 'Both' is needed for safest overall, however. Assuming the tech is available and works.

@AAviator - this is an exchange of opinions... yours and mine may differ but there is no insult if I view the matter differently. In the end you have to make your own choices.
Fatigue is not limited to pilots or medical doctors... other professions get overworked too. But I don't let my employer get away with it - if he pressures me after 72 hrs of straight work to make a decision then I insist of taking the time to think it through.
I am not opposed to improvements ( collision avoidance etc ) but I am opposed to give you ( and me ) any slack in responsibility - if you are drunk, on drugs or overworked and drive in your personal car then that is solely you resposibility... no gadget can take that responisibilty away from you.

For me, when I feel my attention seems sluggish, I find a nice little muscle car to whip up on, like a camaro, mustang, BMW... Nothing gets the body at full attention like a good ol race. Only bummer is if I'm too close to home, I'm still amped up (pun intended) and can't go to sleep! LOL

Kleist,

Ok, now we are in agreement. Its not that I believe collision avoidance takes the responsibility away from someone, its just that the added layer of protection is necessary. And remember, even when you think you are rested (I slept 9 hours last night) You might not be, and by the time YOU notice it, its too late, you are already impaired.

Interestingly, I have heard back from higher up the food chain in Palo Alto about this, as I wrote several suggestions and queries. They don't have a date back for implementation yet but they claim they take all feed back to heart.

I responded to that by suggesting that Tesla become a certified installer for Mobileye at the local service center (Springfield NJ in my case)as a local (Dealer) option. That would actually be a good interim step (Like the center console can be ordered etc)and make me feel a lot more comfortable about the installation with the full force of Tesla Motors service centers behind it. I would happily pay 1200-1500 to have it installed by Tesla. While I would prefer to have full integration from day one, this retro fit would suit my purposes adequately.

Hopefully they will choose to run with that suggestion.


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