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almost ICEd

Stopped at the Greenwich CT Supercharger today. 3 out of 4 spots ICEd. The ICE people in the car next to me, whom I kindly asked to move in case another Tesla wanted to charge, sounded as if they couldn't care less. They meant that there are so few Teslas that the chance of blocking somebody's charging would be minimal.

I think that there could rather be few Teslas there BECAUSE OF the ICEing. I for one will most likely not come back to this location, but would plan a road trip around other SC if at all possible.

Do you think that this problem will go away once a critical mass of Teslas appear on the roads? Or will it be the other way around, Tesla owners learn to avoid the most ICEd SCs so that these will be completely taken over by ICE and never see a Tesla?

@Olof That's troubling to read. Perhaps our next New York meetup should be in Rhode Island. That'll learn 'em.

I meant CT.

Brilliant :)

@Olof - if you were on the southbound side - parking is a serious problem, for everyone. Fortunately, I have not waited past 5 minutes there.

The SC is about as far away from the food and restrooms as they can possibly be. An alternative, is to go to the 2nd exit (King St towards CT). Get on the Merritt North and charge there. It will cost you 5 miles if you really wanted to go South, but if it gets jammed up southbound then it is a choice.

Just to show there are ar$eholes in every state...

I would just carry a 5 gallon container of gas and splash it all over the ICE windshield and say here's some gas for you at this supercharging station for EV!

I don't understand how this can be such a huge problem. Why can't they just be towed away? I once parked in front of a fire hydrant (no markings on the road whatsoever, looked just like an ordinary parking space, especially to a foreigner like me) and was towed away minutes after leaving my car there. I'm sure tow companies wouldn't mind including the superchargers in their daily routine tour of fire hydrants and handicapped spaces? More business for them!

Is Tesla just trying to be too nice and avoid negative publicity that would be caused by towing cars away to make room for "privileged" Teslas?

Jeez, just mark the space more clearly and put up a notice saying: "This spot is reserved for charging electric vehicles only. All other cars will be towed". Give it a different color like here.

Maybe with a subtext on the sign: "We don't park in front of your gas pump either" and a short explanation saying electric cars have a range of a few hundred miles, and it is therefore necessary for them to be able to plan their route via specific charging points along the way when going on longer trips. If a charging point is blocked, they may be prevented from getting home.

Which gives me an idea for a publicity stunt: get a bunch of Teslas together and park in front of some popular gas pumps. Invite the media. Sure, you may get a fine or even get towed away, but it might make the news and educate a few people...

(Probably best make it rather short, tell the media that your goal is not to annoy people but to make a point, possibly drive off after a few minutes already).

Do you really think that inconveniencing gas station proprietors and their customers will have some kind of impact of people who are proven to be inconsiderate?

Also, the property where the Superchargers are located is usually not owned by Tesla. Not sure they even have the right to tow without permission from the property owner. And the property owner doesn't gain anything from alienating his/her customers, so why would they grant permission?

The problem with all the icing solutions is that they just don't work in the real world.

Glad to hear you had not issues charging!

I am looking forward to the day when I can call the police and have some $300 tickets hung on offending ICE cars.

Not me. I just want to be able to charge.

I accept the inevitability of drooling knuckle-draggers preventing me from "fueling:" so I can go on my way. I have the statute printed out and ready. I will console myself as I wait with the civil nature of the tickets which are about to be written and the de facto automatic guilt which will follow as the justice system takes its slow but majestic path.

I don't accept it. Well over 20,000 supercharged miles and never ICEd. I don't expect that to change. I have only "shared" a supercharger three times which limited my charge rate - and while I expect that to increase in the future, I do not expect to have to wait for a stall.

I think Tesla understands this and has it under control - though they are a bit behind on their supercharger construction. They can catch up.

Considering the number of people that inappropriately park in handicapped spots "because they will just be a minute" or some other lame reason, I doubt these people will have any concern about parking in EV spots. It doesn't matter if they have great signage, tow-away signs, etc.

The best solution is to offer Superchargers in lots that never fill up and/or place them away from key places. Unfortunately, I suspect that is not always possible.

Gilroy, CA has 10 stalls in a busy outlet mall that often has a full parking lot. It's rare not to see at least one other Tesla at this busy Supercharger. Still I haven't seen any ICEing at this location. It likley helps that it's located in a nook away from the primary parking spots. Then again, perhaps Californian's are a bit more aware of EVs than people in other states/countries as they are seen all the time on the roads.

@tes-s | JULY 27, 2014:

"I don't accept it. Well over 20,000 supercharged miles and never ICEd. I don't expect that to change."

"I think Tesla understands this and has it under control - though they are a bit behind on their supercharger construction. They can catch up."

Point of clarification: Do you believe that A participant on this forum reported seeing 3 stalls ICEd while a Tesla occupied the 4-th stall of a 4-stall SC. Do you believe such reports are lies?

If the norm ever is that 75% of SC stalls are ICEd during busy periods, the SC system is in deep trouble because Tesla can't afford to build enough SC stalls to meet the needs of its customers. ICEing SC stalls is a serious problem even if you've never had your travel disrupted by it!

Ron :(

@tes-s | JULY 27, 2014:

Sorry, but my editing of my post failed to delete "Do you believe that " just after "Point of clarification: :

Ron :(

This will only continue to get worse until Tesla institutes towing of ICE'd vehicles.

For the time being I bet at the least if they just have a prominent sign stating that the charging stalls are for electric vehicles only and other vehicles will be towed at owner's expense and risk would dissuade the majority of charging stalls from being ICE'd. The current policy sets a bad precedent as it almost encourages this behavior as there are no ramifications whatsoever.

i was at Greenwich SB at 1143 and 3 of 4 were blocked and the place was a mad house. people were creating their own parking spots in the middle of the parking lot. right I am on the NB one and no icing,

Neither Tesla not anyone else cannot tow ICE vehicles parked in most Supercharging spaces. There is no legal basis to do so. Local/state legislation would be required before towing is legal. There are very specific parameters in the law regarding parking restrictions (handicapped being one example). Parking reserved for expectant moms, clergy, etc. are not legally enforceable, and I am not aware of any jurisdiction where it would be legal to tow a car for ICEing a charging spot. This may eventually change with enlightened legislation.

Note that some Supercharger locations DO specifically allow ICE parking for 30 minutes in the charging stalls. I have no idea if there are legal regulations that would allow a violator to be towed for overstaying in those locations, but this is a matter of law.

@grinnin' - no, I do not doubt the OP about ICE in Greenwich South supercharger spots, and not sure why you think that.

Nor do I think anyone should doubt my post of 20,000 supercharged miles and I have never been ICEd - just like the OP was not ICEd. He backed right in and got connected to the supercharger, and did not mention seeing another Tesla arrive and be ICEd out of a spot.

So what's the beef??

@Jordan - that is very common at Greenwich South. There is simply not enough parking, and people form a new row of parking in the open area of the parking lot. While ICE drivers seem fine with parking in an EV spot, it appears they are reluctant to take the last one open. Turnover in that parking lot is very fast - I'd bet less than 15 minutes per spot on average. So if a Tesla pulled in to the open spot and another Tesla arrived immediately behind him, they would wait on average 5 minutes for a charger.

This is not a calamity.

Greenwich NB is a larger parking lot, and there is a service station less than 10 miles before it on the Hutch in NY. The service station north of Greenwich South is 14 miles away in New Canaan, and is closed for renovations now.

Back to my point - Tesla has this under control and rarely is anyone ICEd out of a supercharger. Let's not invent problems.

++ JordanRichard +Tes-s

I actually think there are less physical spaces NB, SB simply does not have enough spots - never has.

As Tes-s says, I have never waited more than 5 minutes for a space SB. They do create their own second lane parking.

If you go, fill out a comment card and let them know they need to do something about lining out more spaces.

tes-s, good point about the New Canaan rest area. Iam sure things will lighten up once they finish the renovations and it certainly come soon enough.

I like the green EV painted spaces. Seems inexpensive to implement, and likely to work. I wonder if property owners will permit.

Some nice examples:
http://pluginsites.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/StJohns1.jpg
http://www.plugincars.com/sites/default/files/ev-parking-620o.jpg

You can buy the paint and stencils here. Hey, any DIY types in Connecticut? ;)
http://www.usscproducts.com/specialty-coatings/ev-charging-station-coati...

-Dane

@danej - I totally agree with painting them green.

This seems to be more of a west coast/east coast thing. I don't recall seeing stories of west coast superchargers being iced.

We're used to it on the west coast. Probably just a matter of time before people on the east coast get used to it.

In Washington State, green paint designations are required for EV charging stations. You need to be plugged in or you face a getting a ticket. Towing is an option too.

Someone suggested putting orange cones in front of Supercharger spots that are habitually ICED. Perhaps a local could get some traffic cones and mark it with "EV".

If someone is too lazy to find another parking spot they are probably too lazy to get out of the car and move an orange traffic cone.

Yes, on our West Coast/Canada trip, we were not totally ICE'd in Ellensburg, WA, nor in Springfield, OR Superchargers. There was one stall left.

Of 8 stalls, 7 were ICE'd. Luckily we were able to take on board electrons for our journey south. As we pulled out, another Tesla pulled in for charging.

We spoke to the manager/desk personnel at both Holiday Inn Express hotels whose parking lot the Superchargers were located in. It's still on our to do list to contact the Departments of Transportation in those states.

@tes-s | JULY 27, 2014:

"So what's the beef??"

The SC system is in the early stages of growth; You experience so far is with a system that is lightly used. We should expect that SC stalls would usually be available for this situation.

In the near future, there will be many more Teslas on the road. As the SC system grows, more Tesla owners will try using it. With its successes, more people will rely on SCs more routinely. This should work well almost all of the time for most people, provided that almost all of the SC stalls are available for charging when needed. If a substantial portion of SC stalls are ICEd, it's doubtful that Tesla could afford to build extra capacity to continue providing adequate SC charging for its customers.

There are a nontrivial number of Tesla-haters. Some of them are more than willing to block SC charging -- they are delighted to do so. Some have made hostile comments to Tesla drivers. Evidently, they think Tesla drivers are fair game for harassment.

I'd like to avoid unnecessary waiting and threatening behavior by hostile people who think they have the law on their side. I believe the best way to minimize such things is to establish a clear rule: Just like refueling spots are reserved for cars refueling, EV charging spots are reserved for EV charging.

The best way to avoid the nuisance, cost and treats associated with ICEing SC stalls is to tow away violators at their owners' expense. I don't believe any other approach will deal adequately with this problem.

My beef: I paid for SC charging. I deserve to get what I paid for. So far Tesla has failed to deal with this issue in a constructive way.

Ron :(

I have visited most of the current SC stations in the U.S. I have seen ICEing in several places. If you are in a place where this occurs more frequently - read CONN - then this will continue to be an issue. For most of the U.S. I don't see it as a real issue. For those places where it is really bad, I suspect Tesla will incorporate this consideration in their location of future sites. They also might relocate some sites when practical.

It would be great if the law were enforced, where it exists, but this is also part of what we bought into when we became 'early adopters'.

Blowing off steam is fine, but letting this situation spoil your day seems to be counter-productive.

Though it has been mentioned that using cones would help this problem, I just of an automated way to "gate" the parking spot.

Tesla could affix say an 8 ft long pole with a bar across the front, looking sort of like a "T". This pole would be affixed to the SC pod. When no Tesla is present, the bar is down. When we pull up, the pole rises. This would prevent ICE from parking in the spot and wouldn't require digging up the asphalt to install blocking plates or pole. Now admittedly I still need to work on the idea because I haven't figured out what to do about allowing access to plows for snow removal.

Look at CraigW, the Yoda of round the US travel! ;-)


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