# Foren

ZUR TESLA-COMMUNITY

Cost to Charge and Cost per Mile by State for Model S

Using October 2011 data from the U.S. Dept. of Energy, we calculated the cost in different states for a full charge and also the cost per mile based on the 160, 230, and 300 mile estimated range at 55mph. These estimates are averages for each state. This was calculated by multiplying the cost per KWH by the capacity of each battery. If anyone has come up with anything different, I'd love to see it.

Danke.

Take a look at it here:

http://teslarumors.com/USA-Residental-Energy-Cost-2011-by-State.html

Thank you,
Max Mindel
TeslaRumors.com
http://teslarumors.com

Wow, Hawaii is expensive! Good job on the map and article Max.

Nice visual, Max.

If you happen to have the data handy, it would be interesting to indicate the top 3 electrical sources (coal, nuclear, hydro, etc.) by state with percentages. Maybe an on-hover tooltip on each state name? A tooltip approach means you could tie it to the map and the chart.

Great job Max! Visuals are always good to sway the doubters.

Can you work the state into the TCO calculation? Since most people may not know their electricity rate as much as they know their gas price and MPG's.

So for a given state (WA kWh), if you bought a given car (say Honda Odyssey at 17MPG city) at an expected average gas price over 5 to 10 years (say \$6 for WA) vs buying the base Model S how long will it take for the Model S to be cheaper than the given car?

And then you could tie it back to Solar Panels to see how long it would take to pay off a given size solar panel. This might be good for states like Hawaii where electricity rates are high.

Just a couple of thoughts, but great job!

DiscoDucky
I appreciate the feedback and the great constructive thoughts!

Absolutely I plan to work the states into TCO. That's why I've ben holding off on my update to all of the car makes. I've only updated 3, but I want them all to be selectable by state so that the data is even more helpful.

Ultimately I will have break-even data too.

I appreciate it.

Brianman. Thanks for the positive comments. I don't have that data, but that sounds really interesting so I will definitely look into it.
Thanks!

Max Mindel
TeslaRumors.com
http://teslarumors.com

Mycroft, its kind of sad that Hawaii has such high electricity prices. Wouldn't it be great if they could harness free energy from ocean waves?

Thanks
Max Mindel
TeslaRumors.com
http://teslarumors.com

I found a 2007 link that shows generated power per state and CO2 emissions for the generation. It does not break down the methods used for generation per state but it does show how much CO2 is put out by different methods. Idaho has very low CO2 (if I recall the data correctly). I am curious how they kept their costs so low.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fe796

I thought Hawaii also has geothermal power close to the ground surface. Maybe it's just a matter of politics?

Thanks Max, good info and graphics. It may be too difficult to work it in, but some areas offer off-peak discounts. In the two largest urban areas in Kentucky there is a 30% discount for off-peak charging. For charging the three battery sizes the cost to 'fill it up' would be \$2.67, \$4.01, and \$5.67 respectively. Not bad for a tank of gas!

Re Hawaii: they are putting up some wind turbines, and OPT has installed some wave energy devices. Definitely moving in the right direction.

Re: generation by state: this is really hard to get right, because there are massive flows of power across state lines. Reporting the internal generation is a poor proxy for the answer to the question, "where does my power come from?" or, even, the relevant question, "what power source will likely fuel my Tesla?"

If a state has a nuclear power plant, a couple of coal plants, and large number of gas turbines (Massachusetts), it's very likely that natural gas is on the margin in most hours (at least historically; with the very low gas prices recently, coal is being pushed to the margin). Other states have lots of nuke and coal, and only a few gas turbines (Alabama); there, coal is more often on the margin.

In some states, like Michigan, coal is on the margin overnight and gas is on the margin during the day, so it's actually environmentally better to charge during the day there.

@jackhub at least in California the rates are really complicated if you go to a time-of-day rate. It depends on which utility serves you (which part of the state you are in), which rate schedule you get (there are several and various rules for which is available to you), what time of year it is, what time of day it is, whether your house has electric heat, and how much power you use in total for the month. Depending on all of these variables, a kWh can cost between 5-cents and 35-cents... roughly. So California by it self pretty much spans the entire range on the chart!

Great site and chart. I'd suggest you recruit off peak rates from metropolitan areas. PGE in Portland Oregon has a 10pm to 6am rate of 4.422 which is half of the average rate in oregon

Cost per mile isn't all that critical in Hawaii since they cannot go very far, anyway... ;-) SCNR

There are (at least) two older threads in this forum that discussed this very topic. Maybe they are still worth reading:

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/cost-fill

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/cost-mile-drive-s-versus-compara...

great chart and data. For California, there is another aspect to consider. Which rate schedule you choose. If you choose rate schedule E6 ("time of use") you get charged 12 cents per kwh during off-peak evening hours according to my conversation with PGE yesterday. Since I will be charging at night, cost per kwh on this schedule puts Cali in much better shape compared to the rest of the US.

In my case, it will be even better because I have Solar so I get to "sell" power back to PGE at 21 cents per kwh (peak usage rate) and "buy" it at 12 cents (off-peak rate).

Can't wait for my Model S!!

jd3
sig 692

@steveU,

wow, I had no idea our state was this complicated. PGE is my provider living in San Jose. I didn't get that complicated a description by the PGE rep I talked to yesterday. But, he was part of the "Solar" division so maybe the rules are different if you are on that plan???

cheers

@jd3 - not to have California rates monopolize this thread, but another option with time of use is the E-9 schedule for electric vehicles. When we were evaluating our solar options (installed on Nov. 1), the solar company did an analysis of our usage with both the E6 and the E9 rates (can get more complicated if you elect to have a separate meter for the EV). I think we might switch to the E9 rate schedule once our Tesla is delivered...though we will have to wait until Nov. 1, 2012, since you can only switch rate schedules once every 12 months. BTW, we're in San Jose as well...:)

There are actually two E9 rates (A and B) and, as John_DeDe points out, also E6. If you go to http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf you can see a rate schedule for E9 (both A and B) which I am not sure is current but at least gives you an idea how complicated it is. Note that what your baseline is (see the rate schedule for how it is used) depends on where you live and whether you have electric heating (so the complexity is two dimensions worse than the table in the referenced file). The E6 schedule is similar in structure and complexity.

@Sudre_,

I found a 2007 link that shows generated power per state and CO2 emissions for the generation. It does not break down the methods used for generation per state but it does show how much CO2 is put out by different methods. Idaho has very low CO2 (if I recall the data correctly). I am curious how they kept their costs so low.

17 Hydro plants. (+some gas fired and 3 co-owned coal plants).

I think your florida rate is too low - in south fla we pay about 15 cents per kw if I'm not mistaken....

I am in NY, and I do not pay anywhere near the 18c/kWh shown in this data, so I think the rates vary widely by region of NY. I do know that I seem to get a reduced rate based on my higher than normal usage (sounds backwards, but appears to be this way). I have a geothermal heat pump so my electric consumption is pretty high for a household. My Tesla will add to this, but not a whole lot with my relatively short driving distances. I am surprised (and maybe not so surprised) to see NY as the highest rate of the lower 48 states.

We get a ton of Hydro power from Niagara Falls, and we have nuclear in the Rochester area as well. Wind has built up quite a bit in upstate too over the past few years.

Comment re Hawaii: I live in Hawaii. Our electricity is indeed the highest in the country but our gas prices are also well above average. Our current gas price averages \$3.85 per gallon on Oahu. At that price a car needs to exceed 41.0 mpg to be less expensive per mile to run on gas than on electricity at the 9.38 cents per mile shown in the table for the model S.

What is not so apparent to outside observers is the tremendous incentive to install photovoltaic in Hawaii. We have some of the most consistent sun in the country and PV is economically very viable here given our high electricity costs. Government tax credits and incentives total ~65% of the PV cost so our out of pocket to install PV is only ~35% of the total expense. Given our high price of electricity, our out of pocket costs for PV are paid back in 7 - 8 years. After that electricity is free.

Therefore what is missing in this discussion is that many if not most of the people who are buying a model S are probably putting PV on their homes because the economic incentives to do so are so enormous. For 7 - 8 years we will be paying the equivalent cost per mile of a 41 mpg gas car. After that we will power our electric cars for FREE.

The much larger concern for Hawaiians owning a model S than the the cost of filling it up is the cost of servicing it should Tesla not establish a service center here. It is absolutely cost prohibitive to pay the Rangers to come 5,000 miles round trip from California if your car breaks down in the interim between their regular annual maintenance visits (which are affordable because they can be shared between all Tesla owners in the state).

"Government tax credits and incentives total ~65% of the PV cost"
Another reason to envy the beach people. ;)

@Leofingal: You're right; the NYS average blends a very high rate for NYC/Long Island/Westchester with a markedly lower rate for upstate. It's one of the only "progressive rate" structures I can point to in the country--the (on average) rich downstate folks pay more than the (on average) poorer upstaters.

ddruz@aol.com

Thanks for your info about the use of PV in Hawaii. I wasn't thrilled about writing about the high cost of energy in Hawaii. Excellent point and other potential EV buyers should be aware of this. I will include your point about PV use in that section.

Vielen Dank!

Max Mindel
TeslaRumors.com
http://teslarumors.com

ddruz@aol.com. Is there a link you can refer me to that talks about your 65% tax credit on PV. Thanks.

Max Mindel
TeslaRumors.com
http://teslarumors.com

TeslaRumors.com. Here is a link from one of the solar companies in Hawaii which explains the 65% total tax credits:

http://sunetric.com/solar-for-homes/incentives-and-rebates/

Thank you ddruz@aol.com.