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E-Cat and Tesla Motors

It's quite a long time ago when I found this site. I don't know if u ever heard about Andrea Rossi or E-Cat or cold fusion, but since even Elon Musk said that he believes cold fusion is possible, it would be nice to see in Tesla future car model using E-Cat technology for generating some cheap heat for A/C. Or maybe it could be used as future alternative propulsion technology - you know, classic automakers have gasolin and diesel and rarely natural gas, which all are burned with CO2 and NOx in process, but cold fusion is clean source of heat (energy) and since Tesla is beting for this clean sources I believe they could use it once in the future.

I am aware that they are actually short on money for additional research and design, but I just had that idea so I want to have a little discussion on it. Do you believe this is possible?

for people more interested in this topic there is also few more information about E-Cat:
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer
brief NASA: http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
other: http://www.e-catworld.com/

I really really doubt that Elon had said cold fusion is possible. More like he had said that it is impossible.

It hurts me that there is yet another "high-ranked" scientist giving statements to the area where he has no expertise (Dr. Joseph Zawodny is no nuclear physicist), and then that scientist is used as authority to boost the credibility of the claim.

E-Cat is highly probably just a scam.

It's pity that you are not trusting me... Nevermind, there is no better way how to change your mind than to show you the video with Elon Musk saying that. So please look at this video on Youtube. In 38 minute of video he start talking about 3 things which he think is possible in the future. First is supersonic electric jet plane, second (42:45 on video) is cold fusion (not same as E-Cat of course) and third (43:45 on video) is hyperloop. All 3 thing are futuristic stuff, but he claims that all 3 thing are possible in the future. Whole interview is very interesting so I recommend to watch it whole :-)
Well, I hope you are not doubting about me or Elon now. E-Cat is maybe just a scum... or maybe not... we will see in 2013 as Andrea Rossi claims to deliver first 10kW heating unit for home purpose.

"They could make fusion working". No mention about cold fusion. He even defines that further by saying "magnetic containment fusion" and "relatively standard fusion".

Well, you are probably right, I didn't realize he isn't meaning cold one. I can admit my mistake... but it is not changing my mind about cold fusion and I still hoping to see it in work one day :-)

Jolinar;
If you want a project to follow, check out LPPhysics.com instead. It uses a kind of tiny (ultra-hot) fusion-fission event to generate pulses. A 5MW generator is likely to fit in a shipping container. Compare to E-Cat's warehouse to generate 1 MW!

And the costs are projected to be 10-20X less than the best US systems now available. Within 4-5 yrs.

Within 4-5 yrs.

Has always been and will always be. :-P

Yes VB, but regular fusion has always been within 10-20 years. So, this group has been more optimistic.

Clarification: Controlled fusion.

thx, for another tip :-)
well, regular fussion 10+ years, plasma fusion 4-5 years, Andrea Rossi's fusion for home purpose not even 1 year (for factory heating 3 months to deliver 1MW) - he is still the most optimistic one ;-)

V.B, I wont agree with "will always be". LPP already reaches fusion. I think the hard part for them is that they not only try to reach fusion they try to reach aneutronic fusion. That is way harder thing to do. If they would settle with tritium-deuterium or deuterium-deuterium fusion it would be ready this year, but that would require a lot heavier shielding against radiation, and fuels for those are not as easy to obtain as hydrogen-boron.

No tokamak is even close to that. And for those I agree that "has always been and will always be" is quite true.

Timo;
New video -- presentation to a "Flying to Mars" group.

Mention of Elon, Branson, etc., in attendance. A couple million from those guys would go a long way!

Situation seems more advanced, since swiss startup, LENR CARS RARL, founded by Nicolas Chauvin, (a serial innovator), with the help of EPFL business angels, propose to build e LENR hybrid car, based on Tesla model S

Electric Vehicle

The main base of the iCar project is the electric vehicle.

We have decided to use the Tesla Model S Performance mainly for the size of the battery.

It is the only electric vehicle currently available with a battery storage of 85 kWh.

This capacity allows a range of 450 to 480 km.

Moreover, the Model S has two trunks, one in the front and a regular one in the back.

This allows to use the space available in the front to place the LENR generator.

Finally, the Model S has no compromise in terms of style, comfort and performance.

This makes it the best candidate for the iCar project.

it is the phase 1 target, and in next phases they plan to make more efficient version.

The slides of their presentation at ILENRS12 is published on that forum

it seems based on Defkalion reactor specification, but e-cat might be usable too when the specification are public.

the tesla car is beautiful, and this can help to accept the initial imperfection and price...

AlainCo, wow I see this for the first time, This is exactly what I meant, but I thought it would be made right by Tesla :-)

WOW. They have a long way to go. Wish them luck. 775Wh/h charge to the battery is not very promising but it's a start.

Assuming the generator runs 24 hours a day that's about 80 miles of range.

775*24 = 18600
85000*.80 = 68000 (assumes 20% of battery is not used to get 300 miles)
18600/68000 = 0.2735
300*.2735 = 82

jerry;
TM has never said 80% gets 300mi. That's full range.

85,000 Wh x 1.2 (charge inefficiency) / 775 = 132 hrs. = 5½ days.

That's 54 miles / day.

That thermoelectric generator is very inefficient, but I think this project is about creating first working prototype. Improving efficiency could be the second step.

Brian,

I was thinking of the bottom part that doesn't get touched.

If there is any, then it is in addition to 85kWh, not part of it. Tesla 85kWh does give full 85kWh for driving.

just to reignite discussion about viability of E-Cat, I've found some new results:
http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html
there are some other links in the article including the paper:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.3913v2

Interesting to say the least. Though I would wait until the research is submitted to a peer-reviewed journal... If it holds up this could very well actually change the world as we know it.

@jolinar

Great catch. Glad to see there is now a paper submitted for publication?

Anyone can be tricked through sleight of hand, especially since the test was done @Rossi's lab.

The nickel substrate was not examined due to "trade secret" concerns.

However, a fairly designed test would require that the trick was more complicated that the ACTUAL science of LENR.

Tentative excitement.

Two perpetual motion posts and now this? Is this crank week?

Don't look behind the nickel curtain; ignore the fat shyster back there.

@ nwdriver93 Don't dismiss this right off the bat. If you read the article and the paper you can tell that this goes beyond your usual charlatan's gimmick; this is not cold fusion or any other physics defying act, it looks like an experimental method for generating heat (energy) in an extremely efficient way under controlled laboratory conditions. Let's wait and see. Also, maybe we should all do a little more research about all the parties supposedly involved on this experiment, see how legitimate this all is. For now I'll, personally, give this "breakthrough technology" the benefit of doubt.

You'd be wiser to give it a full blast of doubt than the benefit.

@nwdiver93
it heas a "fuel" so it's not a perpetual motion machine

@Brian H
I totally understand your scepticism, Rossi is also entrepreneur, not only pure scientist.

@frmercado
Yea, I'm not going to make premature conclusions on Rossi's research of LENRs. The only thing we can do is wait and see. Next, long-term test should be in the summer.

A picture of Rossi's 1 MW plant showed a warehouse sized place full of racks of his rigs to the ceiling. Laughable.

What is laughable about that?


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