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German pricing, I'm in tears and out of the game

In Germany the Tesla Model S will cost MORE €UROS THAN $ IN US!... so, the price is more than 30% above the US-pricing!
That's real bad, Teslas. I'm a stockholder, reservationholder and follower since 2010, but this is just ... wordless.
Better, I use my ICE for the next Years and everyone else should, too ... the teslaguys always told me, there will be more or less 15% priceincrease, but 30%?
71000€ for the 60KW/h and more than 100.000€ pricing for the performance is just barefaced.
If Your goal is to bring EV's to a broader market, just make a fair price!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-20/tesla-begins-europe-push-with-h...

Spreadin the wealth baby! The 99 percent in Norway is just 80 percent.

Gee, Frank, I did not know that Norway was a communist country! Kidding, hoping to side a bit with you in teasing our American friends - I am Danish ;-)

We Americans all drive SUV's, own guns and have kids like Honey Boo Boo. Plus all the young people in New Jersey are disfunctional morons and we have good- looking vampires. That about sums it up.

Jolinar got it about right:
Jolinar | December 20, 2012
...
Signature performance in EU before VAT is $109,748 (83409€ = 91750/1.1) price increase included, import duty (10%) excluded
.
That means Tesla increased price only by $1848 (1405€) as transport and other business expenses, which seems quite impressive.
Other expenses can't be affected by Tesla :(

That's about 1.7%. Minus transport and final assembly, that comes to 0% price increase.

Quicherbitchin'.

I feel bad for the German reservation holders. Every country should be providing incentives for the adoption of BEVs, imported or otherwise.

My S costs 10.000€ - 1700$ with italian prices, about the cost of a city-car. I hope to be wrong

My S costs 10.000€ - 1700$ more with italian prices, about the cost of a city-car. I hope to be wrong

Getting Amped Soon +1.

I feel like I should move to Norway.

Going off lurking mode:

The 60 kWh version costs 647 000 SEK (607 000 after our 40 000 SEK "super environment car" subsidy ) in Sweden according to this article:

http://www.automotorsport.se/artiklar/nyheter/20121221/tesla-model-s-kom...

The dollar is currently worth 6.5 SEK which means that the base price without import duty and VAT would be 454350 SEK. The import duty fee is 10% and then we have a 25% VAT on top of that which leads to a final price of 624371 SEK (~68000€).

647000 - 624371 = 22629 SEK difference. But this is with the duty fee and VAT included. Removing the duty fee and VAT makes it a 16500 SEK difference, or approximately 2500 $. That's just 3.5% more then the price in the US.

I'm extremely impressed by this, assuming that i got everything right :-) Can't wait for the next generation (generation 3) cross-over to be released in Sweden.

As a comparison, the Chevy Volt costs 434 000 SEK (before the 40 000 subsidy) in Sweden, or 430000/1.25/1.1/6.5 (/VAT/duty/dollar exchange rate) = 48559 $. The price in the US is 39145 $ if i'm not mistaken. Now that is a rip-off.

The Nissan Leaf costs 41400$ in Sweden using the same calculations. Less of a rip-off then the Volt perhaps, but not by much.

I feel bad for the German reservation holders. Every country should be providing incentives for the adoption of BEVs, imported or otherwise.

Getting Amped Soon, thank you for feeling with us. Problem is, as you can easily imagine, that the auto manufacturers' lobby is very influential in Germany. You know, employment and stuff... As an aside: That's probably the main reason why there is still no speed limit on the Autobahn. Since, the German manufacturers simply did not get it til now and have plain nothing to offer in terms of EVs, any incentive for EVs would exclusively support sales of foreign manufacturers... No way!

(My own opinion is, that's wrong. Not just because I could use some support to ease the purchase of my Model S, but mainly because that would be the kick in the ass of the local auto industry that seems to be so urgently needed...)

In Scandinavia the span between high-wage earners and low-wage ones is much less than in the US.

Hence there is a borderline where employees below earn more in S and the ones above earn more in the US. These borderline is way higher up the social ladder than most US citizens think.

A word about the governmental incentives for the purchase of electric vehicles in the U.S. and elsewhere: they can be viewed as a counterweight to the incentives already provided for the purchase of ICE vehicles.

For example, ICE drivers are not required to pay for the right to dump emissions into the atmosphere. Where else are you allowed to dump your garbage without paying for the privilege? ICE drivers also benefit from the many gas and oil subsidies provided by the government, from tax benefits to drilling rights (not even counting the costs of guaranteeing energy security). These externalities are taken for granted, whereas incentives provided for the purchase of electric vehicles are often viewed as governmental interference in the marketplace.

Sorry for my english... en français à la fin

What a disappointment!

Since 2010, I am following very regularly the current events of TESLA. I firmly hoped to drive Model S in 2013 or 2014 at the latest. It has been a long time since I configured it. It has been a long time since praise TESLA in my circle of acquaintances. I tried Roadster in Paris and in Monaco.

I have just discovered the European prices of Model S and we are very very far from the prices announced at first.

More of 80K€ for one 85Kw with a minimum of equipment, it is very far from the 60K€ which had been announced in a period. More of 100K€ for the version signature... of which to cry.

At this price, it is not any more a car top of the range, but a limousine of exception. Little vehicle reach such tariff summits. (BMW 7, Audi A8, Mercedes CLS or S.)

I am out !

Clearly, at this price, I cannot follow. It is thus with a heavy heart and particularly disappointed that I am going to have to make a cross on this Model S so wished...

Quelle déception !

Depuis 2010, je suis très régulièrement l'actualité de TESLA. J'espérais fermement rouler en Model S en 2013 ou 2014 au plus tard. Il y a longtemps que je l'ai configurée. Il y a longtemps que fais les éloges de TESLA dans mon entourage. J'ai essayé la Roadster à Paris et à Monaco.

Je viens de découvrir les prix européens de la Model S et nous sommes très très loin des prix annoncés au départ.

Plus de 80K€ pour une 85Kw avec un un minimum d'équipement, c'est bien loin des 60K€ qui avaient été annoncés à une époque. Plus de 100K€ pour la version signature... de quoi pleurer.

A ce prix là, ce n'est plus une familiale haut de gamme, mais une limousine d'exception. Peu de véhicule atteignent de tels sommets tarifaires. (BMW 7, Audi A8, Mercedes CLS ou S...)

Je suis hors jeux !

Clairement, à ce prix, je ne pourrai pas suivre. C'est donc la mort dans l'âme et particulièrement déçu que je vais devoir faire une croix sur cette Model S tant désirée...

@DouglasR - that was very eloquently stated and I think reflects the views of many of us.

Antinomie, did you read all the comments above yours? Do not blame Tesla for European pricing. It is your governments taxes and import duties which make the Model S more expensive in Europe than in the US. Take the time and compute what the car really costs. Take the US price, add VAT, add import duties and THEN compare. Surely you do not expect Tesla to pay for your country's taxes?

Remember all prices in US exclude ALL taxes!

I'm a little surprised about the amount of people disappointed in the prices. Surely one could quite accurately estimate what the final price would be earlier, including VAT and import taxes ?

My estimate before pricing was released was 650k NOK for my configuration (perf with everything but the child seats), the result ended up being 659k NOK. Actually my estimate was on the high end but them not including the 21" wheels with the performance package threw the calcultion a little off. I'm not too happy about the wheel thing, but the rest is squarely in line with what I expected.

YOLO !

If the model s becomes "too" popular in Norway. A tax will come.

So far, so good. Every other thing in this country is heavy taxed, but average wages are high though.

The combustion cars are so heavy taxed in Norway, most of us are pleasently surpriced about the model s price tag.

Timo | December 22, 2012
Getting Amped Soon +1.
.
I feel like I should move to Norway.

Does Norway allow Finns to immigrate? Risky!

;)

Actually, the Norwegian government has set a ceiling for tax/VAT free "fully electrical powered cars" to 50,000 total. With the rate of sales this spring that target was scheduled to happen in 2017, with approx. 10,000 cars registered over the last 5 years or so. With the rate of sales of Tesla S mainly due to the very favourable comparative pricing, my guess is that will happen long before. Latest rumour is more than a <1,000 reservations as of today. Norway is the largest market outside the US as mentioned by a fellow Norwegian in this string.
I was told to expect my P8 in Q3.....

I love Europe. I'd be willing to pay more in taxes to have that quality of life. Awesome transit, support of the arts, culture, heritage and communities. If only I could convince my spouse...
My spouse is half Finnish and half Norwegian. See my problem?

I'm Danish, Irish, Scottish and First Nations. See his problem?

;-)

Here in Australia we get no concessions at all for EVs, not in registration or usage. We even get the same luxury car tax applied as ICE vehicles. The only concession is for 'efficient' vehicles whose fuel consumption is less than 7 l/100km, and that is to adjust the luxury car threshold to about $75k, from about $57k. Before all the Americans jump in, a BMW 3 series here is $70k.

As for quoted US prices, I learned a long time ago that none of these include taxes of any kind, making them look considerably cheaper. When we (in Australia) talk about the price it includes all taxes other than stamp duty (transfer fees), and registration.

If Tesla can keep the base price here close to the $US price then the $100k Model S will be close to $140k here, I hope. The Roadster ended up being ridiculously priced at just on $250k.

MarkE- See my calcs on the Asia/Pacific thread n TMC. Your input would be appreciated.

I'm out too. I expected to buy the Tesla Model S with the 40 kWh battery, but unfortunately this version is not available in Europe.

So I just bought a normal car. I hope that when I replace my car in 8 - 10 years, that Tesla is still around with more mass market EVs up to US$ 50K.

silvio;
You should be long into the GenIII era, by then!

Most of the dispute is not Tesla's issue. It is, as all have said, Germany and or most of the EU tax and import issues. tesla is a bargain

Yeah, it's the German Taxman making you cry and get out of the Tesla game. Exactly what he wants?

Just came back from a trip to Europe for business purpose... Their petrol cost is around Euro 1.65/liter. Which equates to about $8.40/gal. This is more than twice the petrol rate in US. Here in Massachusetts, our petrol rate is about $3.80/gal (0.75 Euro/liter).
If I can make a financially viable calculate for going with Tesla at US petrol rates, I think the roughly 15% extra (to cover for transport costs) is not going to slow down the demand in Europe. Especially, considering that most cars typically cost far more than the 15% of US pricing.


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