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OUCH, I just looked at my SonCal Edison bill

Where on Earth is the $.11 per kwh average rate everyone refers to when talking about "fuel" costs for the MS?
My Tier 1 rate starts at $.13 and hits $.36 at tier 5. I average $.28 per kwh each month. Edison just upgraded all of the meters in my neighborhood to support "time of use" billing. Should I switch over once I get the MS ? Any Edison customers here to help?

You'd have to look at your own energy consumption throughout the day to make that call. When do you use how much energy? If you can't tailor your consumption to match a schedule, a standard tiered plan might end up being the better bet. Kids tend to make or break a time of use plan.

You can easily calculate your Tesla charging costs at different rates, but whether that makes it cheaper or not depends on how much your non-charging, non-ideal time energy use is in comparison.

MATH, RUN!

You have 3 options:

Depending on how your usage throughout the day is:

1) Go on Edison's Time of use home & electric vehicle plan which allows you to charge from 12pm-6am at $.09 cents in the summer and $0.10 in the winter. Downfall to that is your usage during 10am-6pm weekdays are billed at $0.47 summer and $0.35 winter time.

2) Go on their electric vehicle plan which is $0.33 for summer rates from 12PM-9PM and $0.23 for winter rates. $0.11 9PM-Noon summer and winter.

3) Go Solar and offset your bill completely

read more here:

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-rates/!ut/p/b1/rVJNc4IwEP0tHjwy2RAw9IgORVBBxbbCxQkQEQcBNXX68xssh36MWqfNaXfz9mX35aEILVFUslOeMZFXJSuaPOqtsGGbQycAxxgRDZy-Zi38gWqPpiABoQTAhWPCt_4-sWQ_-J45N2FEAb2gCEVJKWqxQeEx4aukKgUvxYqXXWjjLhz4MU9llLNCJkzw45eaci41TDXLeCovsvKcJXmKQpyqBgGmKuuEg6LhmCpxzHQFx4D1hADlsdbucWXQGzq4txaVD6iHyWCSNUOKjZKX6wotRfX6IcHnZnuqS3aXLoDSABuP9AdgTlUJeLbGfh-rYKgt4MEGa-j6ErCYEXDIDLzANAlArwVc-SdvWO04CqUM9OKeOkbBnbpeJ5zSfybUtbsJ3V9YPN_u95EpjdoY8k2g5R-dWu-edsZ2PdaLU23NDc9TWGwA0Yus03kH-EuxsA!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#/accordionGrp1-2/accordionGrp1-1/accordionGrp1-3

Depends where you live--we pay 7.5 cents/KWH in WY.

I just installed a Solar-City system on my home, and I am avarging +48 kWh per day back into the grid. My regular daily use is around -70 kWh this time of year (swimming pool, A/C, and MS), thus my So Cal Edison bill should drop to around -23 kWh per day, which should knock my bill down to Tier 1 rates, and cost me $0.00 USD to run my MS!

Calabasakid,

Simplesolar is correct.

The fact that you can afford a Tesla means you probably use enough electricity to be in tier 4 or 5. This means that with the residential tiered rate, your marginal cost for each kwh charging your Tesla is about $0.36. At an average rate of 3 miles per kwh, you are looking at 12c/mile. For 1000 miles a month, you electricity would increase approx. 120 give or take.

Get solar panels and switch to TOU-D-TEV. If you charge between midnight and 6 am the summer rate is only 9c/kwh or 3c per mile or an extra $30/month. You do not need to spend money on separate meter but the caveat is that you must lay off the electricity during peak hours between 10:00 am and 6:00 pm.

If that is impossible, then a separate meter will work better and you get the low rates for a longer time interval.

The best alternative, which I have, is to get solar panels and change to TOU-D-TEV. This allows you to sell power back to edison during peak hours (when your panels are making you the most power) at peak rates, and then buying back the power between midnight and 6:00am for much less. The going summer peak rate is $0.58/kwh while the night super off-peak rate is $0.09, a six-old difference. You can buy back 6 kwh for every 1 kwh you sell.

For example, I charge both a leaf and a tesla and my electric bill with a 4kw solar system installed was -$14 last month. That's right, a credit balance.

I used to live in Calabasas and let me tell you, it is impossible to lower your daytime electric usage....the summers can get you 95 to 105 degrees, 10 or 12 days in a row. Now I'm in FL, and it's as bad or worse.....AC runs a lot. But soon a supergharger is coming 10 miles from home!

@calabassaskid: I live Santa Clara, CA, just north of San Jose. I get power via Silicon Valley Power. As mentioned many threads ago, I get $0.09/Kwh for the first 300kwh. then, after that, I pay $0.11/kwh. Only 2 tiers. Under 300kwh, or above 300kwh per month.

I agree with the posters recommending the EV TOU plan with solar panels, 9c/kwh overnight for your EV then produce power during the day at up to 58c/kwh with your solar panels. Then shift all discretionary loads like washing machines, laundry loads etc to overnight so you can export as much power during the day as possible. Basically you can then offset 5-6kwh of night time power for every 1 daytime net kwh exported. At a 1:1 rate you would need about 3kw of panels to offset average EV usage then it just depends how much of the rest you wish to offset, realistically with the 5-6:1 ratio on the TOU plan if you can maximise daytime exports you probably only need 5Kw of panels to significantly ameliorate or eliminate your bill.

Go on the TOU rate - see if your bill is lower. If not, switch back. Charge after midnight.

It looks as if I'm gonna go through with the solar system. I've been working with a local contractor who specializes in clean systems (installation wise) and can get me a complete 10kw system for about $3.15 per watt.
I'm not a fan of leased systems. Why let the leasing company take the 30% tax credit and then turn around and charge me a payment which is only 15% cheaper than my bill? Not one company has offered me a closed end lease where they commit to a specific residual price. I was gonna use the the $33k for the MS as a hefty down payment but I think this is a better investment. Then, I will just run more of the MS financing cost though the S Corp. what sense does it make to be in a nearly 50% tax bracket if I can't take advantage of the same oppresive tax code to my advantage?
I will call Edison tomorrow.
Thanks folks

Make sure you thoroughly invest in efficiency measures first, swap lights for LED's, insulate, heat pumps, solar hot water etc etc. The "negawatts" from these actions are cheaper to generate then to buy extra solar capacity. With good efficiency 10kw is certainly a very large system with a commensurately large upfront cost to have to recover. just do your homework so that you don't spend an extra $15,000 on solar panels that could have been unnecessary with $5,000 spent on increased efficiency.

I changed to LED light and that saved me about 300 kWh a month... that is about half what the MS needs. Investment of $600 with $100 monthly saving... ( yes I pay $0.36 per kWh ).

I have about 100 ceiling can lights in my 5300 sqmft home. 2/3 of them have been switched over to Comp Flourescents. LED's are superior but each Par 30 equivalent is about $30-$40. I doubt I'll earn that back anytime soon when compared to what the Flouresents burn ,

To be honest... I was suprised by the actual saving, I didn't expect it. And most was changing CLF to LED. I did it 6 month before the MS arrived and I looked at the bills a year earlier and after... 300 kWh on average - bill was around $200 and then all of a sudden it was just under $100.
LED prices are coming down so if it is not for you today, keep it in mind. $0.36 per kWh is a big incentive.
Overall the MS made me more aware of our electricity usage. My house has 500 W baseline usage 24 hrs a day (~300 kWh a month ) - next week I'm off and I will hunt down the sources of that ( fridge, comuters, TV, etc ) and see how I can cut down on that. I don't want to change my comport level... just elimate the thoughtless stuff.

In CA long term solution is saving and Solar... the rate plans (here PG&E) will always get you on way or another. Future rate plans will be revenue neutral at best and therefore only window dressing.

Where on Earth is the $.11 per kwh average rate?

I just checked the rates here in MN (summer):
9.453 cents / kWh

Time of day billing (summer):
Peak: 20.27 cents / kWh (9 am - 9 pm M-F)
Off Peak: 2.70 cents / kWh

Source:
http://www.xcelenergy.com/staticfiles/xe/Regulatory/Regulatory%20PDFs/Me...

Agreed calabasa, swapping LEDs for CFL's will take several years to pay off but without a doubt swapping the remaining HIDs for LEDs will take you about 6 months to pay off max. The other factor to remember is that the difference between a 8 watt LED and a 50w halogen is not extra light, the extra consumption is almost all heat production, so 100 halogen ceiling lights at about 40watts of heat production each is equivalent to a 4kw heater running. So in summer when your AC is running and you come home and turn on the lights just remember your AC is using its first 4kw of cooling power just fighting 100 little radiant heaters before it even begins to cool the place. Cutting that 4kw of heating from your home will have an immediate commensurate effect on your cooling requirements on summer evenings. I read about a resort who installed LED lighting and saved 25kw on their lighting bill and unexpectedly found that the load on their cooling systems dropped by almost 40% representing a further 20kw of cooling power consumption evaporated.

$.10/kWh here in Texas. 24/7.

@Kleist - Did this analysis a while back and the biggest hits on my energy usage that surprised me was the DVR. If you have an older DVR, it can draw 50w no matter if it is on or off, so it's 50x24x30 = 36kwh/month sink. LED's can help, but you have to keep in mind how long the lights are on in your calculation. I've converted some high use lights to LED. If you have a recirculating pump for your hot water, that will suck down watts also... consider a timer for that (do you really need to recirculate hot water 24x7 :)

CalabasasKid,

Yup, did the same thing, and bought my system. It was too big of a tax break to pass up, and anything you can get that much of a tax break on (which is also a investment), is worth it it my book!

6.3 cents distribution charge
7.6 cents power generation charge

Total 14 cents per kwh plus $16 monthly service fee.

Same price all the time. Distribution charge is fixed by the utility; you can choose your own company for the generation and rates vary.

I think we are spoiled here in Arizona where we pay 5.8¢ off-peak and 6.5¢ peak rate on our solar TOU plans. I wonder if it's because the Palo Verde Nuclear Station is in my back yard?

I have highest tier charges for SCE as well and was equally upset by the increase in my electric bill (roughly $100/month) after getting the MS. I live in a historic home and can not install solar panels on roofs within view, thereby reducing solar as an option for me. I'm having a separate meter installed and once completed, should reduce electricity rate to about 11 cents per kwh. With that said, $100 per month of extra electricity cost is the price of 1 tank of gas in a equal sized car (e.g., Audi A8 shown on the Tesla video) so I figure I'm still ahead of the game. Gas isn't getting any cheaper in CA (price increased today with added gas tax).

Renton Washington I pay $.06 per for first 600 kWh and $.10 per
after!!

Go solar if you can!!

I know it's getting a little off topic, but do you mind listing the brand of LED lights you found to be good enough to replace your in-ceiling HIDs?

Just switched on my solar panels after installation late yesterday. So far this morning, after about one hour of full sunlight, I put 3 kW into my house via the solar panels! This is going to be a pretty exciting summer. Maybe it would be wise to use solar panels, particularly in California. I'm in the Midwest.

http://brightgreen.com/au/products/dr700-retrofit
Rdoherty, these are what I am progressively swapping my 50Whalogens out for, 80% less power and pay for themselves in about 9 months with 3-4 hrs/day use. I find them slightly brighter then the halogens they replace but a nice warm tone and instant on unlike CFLs. They direct swap with MR16s sockets and work with almost all current dimmers and transformers unlike many LEDs.

@RDoherty
We have been using LED for about 2 years. We like the CREE brand - http://www.cree.com/lighting

NJ has a clean energy program where there was a 50% discount on the cost of the bulbs. The program has gained popularity and they are out of funding at the moment but should start again soon
http://www.energyfederation.org/njcleanenergy/default.php

Costco has some great prices on LEDs. Under $18 for a very nice PAR30 with diffuser and a warm white color. They're so popular that they are sometimes out of stock, but well worth seeking out. I've tried lots of LEDs and just love these. Some others have an odd color temp and others don't have a diffuser so they cast multiple harsh shadows (which can be used for dramatic effect in some scenarios)

These Costco LED PAR30s look exactly like an incandescent PAR30 in operation. But they give off dramatically less heat and use about one sixth the energy.

I wish Tesla would start focusing on lobbying California's power monopolies to price electricity more fairly. Even the upcoming "EVA" billing plan that eliminates the horrible tier system will not solve the problem because it raises rates for ALL electricity across the board.

It's crazy that in Tesla's home market of the San Francisco Bay Area that it's currently not practical in economic terms to own an electric car solely because PG&E is set up to punish electricity use instead of rewarding it.


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