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Possibility for better batteries? Take a look

The internet has been a buzz with a new (cheap and easy) way to make graphene. In fact, it is so cheap and easy I literally did this at home in about an hour. Take a look at the link to see how it's made.

Ps: If the big guy gets word of this and they actually use it, can I have a car?

-Antonio (Wurmwood)

http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/science/more-good-news-on-those-carbon-s...

Yeah, I just heard about that. Sounds pretty cool. This is an exciting age to live in, for sure. Though many of these "breakthroughs" never seem to make it out of the lab. But here's hoping.

To me, most people don't understand the promise of electric cars in modern transport. The above noted advancements are popping up in such a short period of time seemingly leaving ice tech in the dust at an accelerating pace. The break through will happen an electic car will get a real world range of 400 miles per charge and charge from zero to full in 20 minutes... Seems like we're right around the corner from it and Tesla appears to be the only ones positioned to make it happen.

I dont think the tide is going to change substantially until the electric car range exceeds a Prius with gas, and can charge in the same amount of time that it takes to fill a gas tank. No sooner than that...

I am confident that it will be sooner rather than later.

Wrong...wrong...wrong...I used to think the same way that we needed a 500 mile range EV before they would take off...then I realized that is rediculous!
Why? Because it goes against human nature.
Think about it...have you EVER travelled 500 miles in ONE SITTING NON-STOP? This would be about 9 HOURS of CONSTANT DRIVING...I bet very few people are even cabable of sitting that long in one position without eating/drinking or going to the bathroom.

So really you need about HALF this range (ie. 250 real world miles per charge) because if you are HUMAN and eat three meals a day and sleep then there is NO WAY you will EVER do 500 miles non-stop without a meal/bathroom break....THESE are your supercharging opportunities!!!
So after 3.5 to 4 hours of driving you are going to want to stop and take a break to eat and use the bathroom...this usally takes about 20-30 mins so...BAM! That is when you supercharge for another 250 miles!

This is also practical so that you don't end up stuffing 500 miles worth of batteries in the car making it too expensive, heavy and thus inefficient and slow! All for a non-stop 500 mile roadtrip that you will NEVER do!

Thanks to HUMAN NATURE I belive that 250 real world miles is the magic number for most future EV's (in combination with supercharging of course).

I think therefore I am.
I eat/pee therfore I supercharge every 4 hours of driving!

Try it yourself on your next roadtrip...do you ever drive without stopping for 500 miles STRAIGHT? No I bet you are stopping every 3 hours or so to grab a snack, use the bathroom, etc, etc...probably even more so if you have a family (more people more stomach's and bladder's)

No point in lugging around 500 miles worth of heavy expensive batteries when roadtrips are few and far between and 95% of people travel less than 60 miles per day.

teddyg

+1

Also see Elon's comments in the Q4 call about stepping up the Supercharger network. It is currently at 90Kwh and is capable of 120Kwh. Speculation that that 30 min charge time to 50% battery capacity could drop to closer to 20 min or even less.

@teddy

I HAVE driven over 500 miles in one sitting (NC to Michigan and back, about 8 times in 5 years) only because flying is too expensive for 2. Once I am out of the military tho, I will probably NEVER need to make that kind of trip again.

I agree with you. Going that far isnt a NORMAL scenario, and people need to realize that.

I often ride 500 miles without stopping, but on a motorcycle. I have many 1,000 mile days under my belt. In 2011 I rode 12,000 miles, visiting all 48 lower states in 11 days during the Iron Butt Rally. It takes an auxiliary tank on our bikes, and lots of other mods, but there are many of us long distance types out there. I am not in this group, but some guys wear pee condoms with tubes down their legs... THATs long distance riding.

There's a certificate for many long distance rides, but my favorite are the 50cc (across the US in 50 hours) and the 100ccc (across the country and back again in 100 hours. You'd be surprised how many people have done these. To become an IBA member you have to do a documented ride called a Saddle Sore 1,000, which is 1,000 miles in 24 hours, one of the easiest long distance rides. I definitely think there is a use for 500 or 1,000 mile range electric vehicles...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Butt_Association

People underestimate graphene. It is also best conductor there are, and it is tougher than diamond. If you can create sufficient amount of those you can create structures that are basically indestructible. Electric motors that weight only tiny fraction of current ones and can spin far far faster than current max. No more copper thieves.

Being much much lighter than current carbon fibers relative to toughness you could create lightweight car chassis. Maybe make car tires that cannot be punctured. Build houses. Anything. Maybe even space elevator (though material requirements for structure that is at least 35786 km long is not small, no matter how thin individual strand is).

True miracle material.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14354-atomthick-carbon-sheets-set-...

Note the date. Last year's news. The CD method is obsolete, now. >:)

Oops. This article is indeed 2013, my bad. But deposition and other methods are in fact even faster and larger scale, not.

Brian - yes, the CD method is a demo only. But it shows you it can be done in air (cheap) and doesn't need a lot of energy ( fast).

Recent interview with Elon discussing the battery system and potential of ultracapacitors below....

http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2013/02/23/model-s-cold-weather-elon-musk...

All these batteries technologies are pie in the sky for Tesla. It will be a while till they are commercial. Tesla's future will be decided in the next 18-24 months or less:
- How large is the wealthy early adopter market worldwide? How large is the market beyond early adopters?
- Will Tesla have the resources to deploy SC in the hi traffic highways? Foreign countries?
- Can Tesla achieve economies of scale and cut labor, component, manufacturing costs by 30+%?
- Will Tesla be able to integrate Model X manufacturing with Model S without spend too much on tooling?

The company is stretch financially and Elon knows that too. That is why he is focussing on efficiency. Still he will have to spend judiciously on SC network, Service and Stores - not exactly cheap. While balancing the cash flow. Can it be done? Yes, they will have to be really smart in procurement, logistics, etc. Drive hard bargains like Walmart, Costco, etc with the suppliers, etc. Tuning up the factory to improve tolerances is going to be a challenge.

The analysts are doubtful or pessimistic. I am optimistic. Elon is a smart guy (except for the Mars thing) and he has skin in the game.

I think everything you pointed out Tesla is doing right now. T
It was in the call and letter to shareholders.

I think the key to all the questions (and Elon knows this) is by achieving profitability this year. If they show profitability (as they did with DOE in 2009) investors will feel more confident in Tesla's ability to actually function/become mass production capable. When they sense this confidence is there, a follow on offering will happen to accelerate development/production of Geniii. GenIII is a large part where current valuation is coming from. The closer genIII becomes a reality, valuation will react accordingly regardless of current eps...

This discussion sounds like you all think Tesla is developing batteries. Battery manufacturers develop batteries, and if the manufacturers have something to sell, you can be certain they will be knocking on Tesla's door. Tesla may be watching from a distance, but it is not real until they can buy in quantity.

I agree that we dont need a 500 mile battery but we need a car that can go 300 miles at 80 mph with hvac running and can be topped up in 20 min at the next exit while we pee and buy a cup of coffee. That would kill the ICE cars.

Same difference.


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