Data monitoring

With today's negative news all over the media on MS, data monitoring issue has surfaced and begin to get another criticism wave. It is like what Apple experienced with its iPhone. New technology vs. privacy. What do our MS owners react on this issue?

Brian H,

It should be "received," not "got." Are you really going to keep being the punctuation and grammar police here? There are a lot of limited-English speakers here and we need them to buy cars too!

Speaking of buying cars, when are you going to get off the bleachers and join us on the field Brian :)

Oops, that was an interrogative.

+1 @Pungoteague_Dave: Thank you for your post. Brian H as grammar police has become a bit tiresome.

"name calling"? Would that be "juveniles under 60"? LOL Sorry the reverse agist joke offended you. But not very. IMO "spel it like it sounds" education is a travesty. Unfortunately it, and "whole word readin' and ritin', was invented by my generation when it took over education-ism. An enduring blot.

@Brian H
So many posts here are incoherent. We need you!
I appreciate your effort.
Both my mom and wife are English grammarians and both have enriched my life with their corrections of my 1960-1970's education-ism. My father with English as his 3rd language, relishes the nuance, and loves being corrected.
Keep informing us. The correct usage of English enlightens us all.
I am a mostly boring actuary and generally don't write well on first cut, but with the help from friends my 2nd drafts are always better.

English has a built-in problem: it is not truly phonetic. German, Italian, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish (?), etc. have no "homonyms" to deal with. Distinguishing them with spelling is part of the way we deal with the problem (usually with historical reasons). The huge size of its vocabulary (after stealing from so many sources) is part of the cause and benefit, so to speak.

But it requires more attention and skill to use properly.

Many formal grammar rules are poor, and artificial, as a result of trying to codify them along Latin lines. Bad match in many areas. E.g., the "don't split infinitives" rule is a silly attempt to match Latin, whose infinitives are one word, hence un-splittable!

In the end, actual usage rules, but it's worth fighting to avoid loss of distinctions and meanings. Ability to use language well is the strongest single correlate with high intelligence, though of course not the only one, and not with all forms of intelligence.

Brian's been doing his grammer/spelling patrol for years, and most of us know about it and appreciate it.

What we DON'T appreciate is the lack of an edit button to fix things that we do catch :D

@Captain_Zap - so what exactly is the problem you have with it? That basically *is* the privacy policy, as it is telling you exactly what they are allowed to do with the data.

That information was also in my MVPA, so I don't know how it could come as a surprise before you converted your reservation into an order.

Someone was wanting to address this subject again.
There were more threads as well from earlier dates.

@ Captain_Zap

Agree. This is important and something I am very uncomfortable with. It is an issue for us all to consider seriously. We all have something to hide (!) and we shall all decide ourselves when we want to disclose whatever and whenever. TM has no right to our private information, being it movement or at what speed. Consider videos and voice... it is in there and should not need a wizard to know how to activate that... Edward Snowden released very disturbing documents about surveillance that goes beyond anybody's wildest imagination. So, nothing to do with unfounded paranoia, just a legitimate demand for privacy - wherever TM sell their cars. Let's hold that to them and not let it go. Ever!

Big Nanny is watching you.

@GeirT - Paragraphs 8 & 9 of the Telematics Service Agreement, which is part of the final purchase document. Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't watching me... 8(x) & 9(i).

8. Information Collected. We collect information about
you and your Tesla EV several different ways: (a) from
what you provide to us when you accept this
Agreement or buy or lease your Tesla EV; (b) from
your use of the Services; (c) from calls or emails
between us; (d) from our wireless services provider;
and (e) from your Tesla EV itself. The information we
may obtain from your Tesla EV includes, without
limitation, (x) information about the vehicle and its
operation, including without limitation, vehicle
identification number, location information, speed and
distance information, battery use management
information, battery charging history, battery
deterioration information, electrical system functions,
software version information, and other data to assist in
identifying and analyzing the performance of your
Tesla EV; (y) information about your use of the
Services; and (z) data about accidents involving your
Tesla EV (for example, the deployment of air bags).
Because your Services are provided through wireless
and satellite networks, we cannot promise or guarantee
that your communications will not be intercepted by
others. You agree Tesla will not be liable for any
damages for any loss of privacy occurring in
communication over such networks. If you do not notify
us of a sale or transfer of your Tesla EV, we may
continue to send reports or other information about
your Tesla EV or the account to the e-mail or mailing
address currently on file with us. In such case, we are
not responsible for any privacy related damages you
may suffer.
9. Use of Information about You or your Tesla EV.
You agree that we can, subject to applicable laws, use
any of this information we collect, and provide such
information to applicable Service Providers and third
parties to: (a) provide the Services to you; (b)
communicate with you about your account or your
vehicle; (c) check or maintain your Tesla EV; (d)
analyze your Tesla EV’s performance, and combine
with and compare to data gathered from other Tesla
EVs; (e) help you to maintain your Tesla EV; (f)
research, evaluate and improve the Services and
vehicle technology; (g) enforce this Agreement with
you or others; (h) prevent fraud or misuse of the
Services; (i) comply with the law and any and all legal
requirements, including valid court orders and requests
from police or other authorities; (j) protect the rights,
property, or safety of Tesla, you or others; or (k)
perform market research for Tesla’s own purposes.
This list is not meant to be exhaustive.

I would still hope that Tesla would not release personal or private information without a warrant or just cause. That is the American way, or at least that is what we were lead to believe.

NSA requests are very polite.
Whisper quiet.

@Captain_Zap - 9(i) says as much. My only real concern here is that if you were ever involved in litigation where your driving habits were in question, the car can testify via the data Tesla collects.

"...location information..." That explains why the service center guy said, "I saw a Tesla across the street, so I pulled up your car location to see if it was you." when I stopped to get coffee prior to an appointment. He went on to say they (service center folks) can only "track" cars within 1/2 mile of the service center.

Doesn't bother me a bit.. wish there was a "we notice you're in a ditch on the side of the road" alert for them.

Ok What can Tesla do with the mysterious Data ?

They can tell where more chargers are needed . They can know more about how our cars are being used which will allow them to make changes in the car. An example was the battery warranty change that came about because of Data that showed that the way most of us charge and use our cars the batteries will last the 8 years of the warranty . This caused Elon to say the batteries were covered no matter how we charge or use them. Just don't damage them physically and You are covered.

Given the fact that the NSA is 'legally' collecting all our phone and email records, but only looking at them for cause, I can easily see the NSA demanding 'car location' information from Tesla on all cars. If approved by the FISA court, this would be a 'legal' request and therefore Tesla would have no choice but to hand over the info.

As terrorists are unlikely to drive a Tesla, I would be appalled if this actually occurred. But, it is within the realm of possibilities and IMO, a big problem.

This is the perfect time for the NSA to make said request--before any significant constituency that might raise a fuss has time to come into being. And, why wouldn't the FISA "court" approve it? The logic of the argument is no different from that of the data collection activities that have already become routine. And, anyway, a very large number of police cars now routinely do OCR on every license plate they pass and store the data permanently.

If you happen to think that this isn't such a good idea, I humbly suggest that you think more broadly than whether these good folks know where you take your Model S.

Will be interesting to see how things are written down for Germany. As data privacy laws to achieve data privacy protection and not just compliance (no offense intended) are in place here they will have to adjust that heavily.

Would be interesting to know if Tesla has planned the right efforts for localization or completely underestimated them or at least the non-technical stuff.

heehee...I've been on this forum in spurts since probably 2010, and the grammar corrections and snarky replies always amused me.

As the late, great George Carlin once said,"We do think in language, and so the quality of our thoughts can only be as good as the quality of our language."

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, but the fact remains that effective and efficient communication are critical for the expression and communication of ideas. In fact, given the current status of public debate here in the US, I'd take Carlin's idea one step further and say that the quality of a culture can only be as good as the quality of the language.

My mother was a school teacher, so one of her goals was to have effective written and oral communication skills as well as a command of the English language (I was born in the USA). As a result, I appreciate the corrections (and the ensuing banter).

*ahem* back to the original post topic...

Privacy = Good
Disclosure without express written permission = Bad

9.(i) comply with the law and any and all legal
requirements, including valid court orders and requests
from police or other authorities;

It would be cool if it read just "all legal requirements, including court including valid court orders"

It is the unqualified "and requests from police or other authorities" that bugs me.

Forget the NSA. The Tesla Application on Android and iPhone devices are more likely to cause issues that will impact you.

For fun one day when my wife left for work in Nikki (for the first time she ever borrowed the car), I fire up the app. Holy cow, she's going a wee bit fast today. And the location is on a scrolling map so I can see all the terrain you don't normally see from the road. And the wife is running the heat a bit warmer than I like it set.

Bad enough my wife can track me from pub to pub in near real time with my ATM card. Now, I can track her like an elk with a radio collar.

I suspect the Tesla application will result in a few children having their car privileges yanked, and a few discussions among adults about their whereabouts.

Yup. That is why I don't use the Tesla app. I don't buy Google and iProducts for similar reasons.

Is there no way for the driver to disable the ability for the apps to track the vehicle? If not, this is a MAJOR oversight. ALL of the "find my friends" systems (including the "Find my iPhone" app) have privacy settings that permit the user to turn off tracking. Tracking by Tesla is one thing. Tracking from an app is another.

@avanti - You can turn off the ability of the Tesla smartphone app to connect and track the car, but Tesla's data collection is embedded software in the car that we cannot access or turn off.

Not much you can do about it these days. I'd be more concerned about Prism and xKeystroke.

Tesla's gaining market share is at the expense of "big oil" and the major automakers.

There are billions of dollars at stake which is huge motivation for Tesla's competitors and big oil to contrive "incidents" that could have a negative effect on Tesla's success.

Tesla is only interested in the data that can help defend them against non-legit attempts at assailing the company's reputation and has little use for any data collection beyond that.

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