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Canadian pricing out... i am in tears

Canadian pricing is out:

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-motors-announces-canadian-pricing...

$64,500for base 40kWh model, Model S with the 60 kWh battery pack and 85 kWh battery pack will start at $75,200 and $85,900 CAD respectively. Base will have heated seats and decor included.

I am floored, you can't imagine my deception level following that announcement. Truly have the impression of being screwed here. Huge mistake from Tesla.

GB is stating that they took a really straight forward approach: "Canadian base prices start with U.S. pricing, plus 6.1 percent for import duties and an additional 1.5 to 2 percent, depending upon the model, for incremental transportation costs and country specific business expenses. The total is then adjusted using the current mid-term currency exchange rate."

Sorry but I am very familiar with the matter and the 6.1% duty doesn't apply to cars built in the Canada-USA-Mexico as part of the Free-Trade-Agreement. Only applies to cars sold in the US for example coming from Japan. So it should have said 6.1% more margins..... And doing straigh math 65,400 - 57,400 is 14% more than the 57,400 US price. Unfair

Stopping here to dry my tears and calm down

There should be no duty on a US made car. I just called my customs broker and he confirmed it and there is even a NAFTA file on this. 6.1% is a chunk of change. Also, there is a 8k and 2k gov tax credit available on the 2010 and 2011 roadster but I did not see the Model S on the list and have advised Tesla about it.

JP,

In various provinces, the govt credit is different. In Quebec, it is not a tax credit but a straight $8000 cash refund at the time of purchase. I'm not sure how it works in other provinces. Quebec will also pay $1000 towards the installation of a EV charger at home.

I've asked my customs broker about the import duty as well and will follow up in this forum and with Tesla directly if he confirms there should be no duty on a US-made (with partial foreign components) car.

Rob

The Duty and job insecurity combined to cause me drop from a Sig to regular production. I am just waiting to see what my new P number will be.

@BrianH - I guess I misunderstood the scope of "Lose nothing. Ever."

I received my "Time to Build" email yesterday and am also very disappointed in our (Canadian) government's tax grab of the "NAFTA" duty.

We had planned on getting a Signature car, however now cannot justify the additional $10k over a P car and the duty, so now we're looking to give up our S spot.

Seems like a lot of people are doing this. Tesla Canada reps told me that was why so many S slots were coming available in the US. People are "voting with their feet" and moving to P cars.

I tried calling the 1.888.771.2505 number to talk to a rep and received a "not in sevice" automated answer. Has anyone else tried the number? I'm in BC.

It does not matter where the parts come from or why the 6.1% was applied or if we should petition the Canadian government to change their ruling on the import duty.
It also does not matter how well explained the prices and increases are by anyone! I do not care whether Mr. Blankenship can explain "the where's" and "the how's" behind the new prices.
It also does not have any significance in trying to justify the new prices for Canadians based on how other countries across the world will get even worse pricing!
This is what matters: When I placed my down payment 13 months ago, my out of pocket expense for the purchase of the vehicle was based on the US price with our Canadian taxes and rebate calculated in appropriately. Essentially it is like getting a quote from any other company for any other product or service.
Now. My NEW out of pocket expenses for the same purchase end up being 17.8% more!
That’s bad business.

Oh and my wife. Ha! She is so angry she doesn’t even want to hear the name Tesla spoken! Especially after our test drive, she was very impressed! So was my co-worker (my Captain) who came along for the test drive.
To say that I am appalled is an understatement. I have been looking forward to this vehicle becoming part of my life for YEARS. Now on the basis of principle alone I am never going to own a vehicle or anything else for that matter that comes from somebody who tries to wrangle nearly 18% more out of my pocket for nothing in return.
I have discussed this with everyone I work with and have had my calculations reviewed by my friends who include MBA accountants and myself (a former engineer).
I am a normal person with an average income. I try to be a good person and simply cant believe something like this would happen to me, my wife and my new family.
I am saddened to say but tomorrow I am going to the Tesla store in Toronto to tell Sarah "We need to start the down payment reimbursement process."

Mr Musk, please do something. I have been in love with your car for a long time. You are surrounded by wonderful employees. Everyone I have had the pleasure of meeting is a great person!
I want you to know that all of my family, friends and co-workers are urging me to take my money back. They all agree that these increases are not only viewed on as a financial slap in the face but more. Much more. They all see it as deception and or worse.
I truly hope that something can be done to rectify this issue. Im sure you guys at Tesla can do something. After all, like David vs Goliath you made the impossible possible and spat in the face of the worlds largest auto makers!

My Res # RN071337
Mark B

You are naive to have thought that because they took your deposit that was the same for the U.S. that our price would be the same. My wife deals with clothing manufacturing and she has to deal with the Canadian duties all the time. It is a pain but it's reality. The import duty is out of Tesla's control. I'm sure they were waiting for Canadian certification before they could finalize the price the duty would be based on.
I don't know how you did your calculation but I have done it and so have others on this forum as well as the Tesla Motors Club forum, and it certainly is not the 17.8% that you quote. You should post your calculation here for us to verify. You say you don't care about the excuses about the duty etc but do you really think that Tesla should just absorb the increase? Especially for a market that won't even be 10% of the American market.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the price either but we have to face the reality of the Canadian marketplace. If getting your money back and cancelling your order makes you feel better that's fine.
I will have long forgotten my issues over pricing once I' m driving my car in a few months.

And it's not like the money is going to Tesla. I'd have a problem if the price plus the exchange, plus duty only came to 80% of the total Canadian price, but that's not how it is. (However, when I lived in Canada many companies did just that.)

How does a 6.1% tariff turn into an 17.8% price hike in your pocket?

bortolottom, I understand your feelings. We have a broad consensus that the Model S should have been available 5 years earlier and for half the price. At the same time, we have an almost as broad consensus that it is much better to have a Model S now, at the price it has, than to have no Model S available at all.

Mr Musk *is* doing something about it. He is dedicating, well, you could say without much exaggeration, his *life* to creating a market for better and cheaper EVs. The Model S is part of this strategy, but only part of it. It's the second step after the Roadster. I would have loved buying a Roadster when it entered the market, but the was no use in complaining that it only had two seats (ah, and I couldn't afford it anyway ;-).

The next step is a smaller vehicle code-named "Bluestar" or "GenIII". It will be smaller and lighter than the Model S, and will target the $30,000+ price range. At the same time, the Roadster, the Model S, and the announcement of GenIII all have considerable impact on offerings from competing manufacturers. It's not unlikely that there will be some EV offering for your requirements and budget, soon. And even if that offering is from one of Tesla's competitors, it must still, to a certain degree, be credited to Tesla that such offerings are happening now.

Here's an even longer rambling addressing some very similar disappointment when Tesla revealed their US prices:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/oct1event%E2%80%93-model-s-exter...
(Look for my post that starts with "das Leben ist kein Ponyhof", the rest of the Post is in English.)

Smaller and cheaper, not sure about lighter since it will use steel instead of aluminum. Even with "smaller" we are not talking about SmartforTwo, more like VW golf, so with long range battery it will still weight quite a bit more than "average" ICE car.

I'm sure your decision will make OPEC very happy bortolo. It'll also speed up the process for the others in line for a Model S who disagree with your opinion AND your math.

Since George has said that the model S falls only slightly below the percentage needed for NAFTA certification, is there something we can do to try to get the government to accept the Tesla as NAFTA certified? It's a revolutionary automobile that should be encouraged by the government, not made more difficult to buy.

Do you think Tesla has done everything they can to waive the duty, or do you think they considered Canada a small market, so it wasn't worth their while?

Unless I am really outdated. under the free trade agreement there is no duty to import cars manufatured in Mixeco, US or Canada.

George B as a Tesla escutive should be embrassed to make such a statement to scam Canadians 6.1%

Unless Model S is not made in the US

kingkong.......the cars must have 62.5% North American content to be duty exempt. The model S is 55% North American content.

I'm sorry, but some of these comments are just crazy.

"I try to be a good person and simply cant believe something like this would happen to me, my wife and my new family."

This is a retail product that needs to be sold for a profit, not a promise made by a family member to you. Tesla doesn't owe you anything, except a refund, if that's what you want.

Even when I put down a deposit for a US reservation, the agreement said this:

"This Agreement does not constitute an agreement for the sale of a Model S and does not lock in pricing, a production slot, or an estimated delivery date. You are under no obligation to purchase a Model S from us, and we are under no obligation to supply you with a Model S or any other vehicle."

and there were other further statements in the agreement reiterating these facts, such as, "The purchase price for the Model S has not yet been determined," and more.

When the full US pricing was announced, it was also about $10,000 more than what I figured it would be for all of the options and such, and of course there were extra stipulations we that were revealed such as the prioritization of deliveries with Air Suspension or bigger batteries and such.

And then too, there were rants from people angered by Tesla's "betrayal'.

Dissappointment, frustration, shock? Understandable.

Anger? Righteousness? Silly. See -> video game fanboys

I'm sorry, I'm going to assume that you wrote your post when you were emotional, and but you must see now how silly it is to say things like "I try to be a good person," as if that entitles you to purchase a luxury car at some certain price that you find acceptable.

PS
The only way I see any of this anger justified is if you think that Tesla et al is actually trying to scam Canadian buyers to make an extra profit. If you seriously believe that, then you should definitely get a refund and also notify the authorities.

"George B as a Tesla escutive should be embrassed to make such a statement to scam Canadians 6.1%"

As I undersatand there is no import duty when the cars are manufactured in North America(Mexico, US & Canada).

http://www.ehow.com/list_6388642_canada-car-import-duties.html

http://www.importcar2canada.com/car_import_duties_and_how_to_avoid_them/

Problem with Model S is that battery pack. Batteries in that pack are made by Panasonic somewhere else even that it is assembled in US, and apparently that is enough for that to trigger import duty.

There is gblankenship message about that in page one in this thread.

Stephen.Kamichi/Brian H

where is 62.5% from? I email Canadian Border Service; here is their reply(duty free if manufactured in the US or Mexico):

The importation of an admissible vehicle will occur at the first Canadian port of entry by presenting an original Title certificate and bill of sale.

Information on importing a vehicle from the United States into Canada is accessible from the Transport Canada Web at:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safevehicles-importation-usa-index-44...

The Registrar of Imported Vehicles provides a useful guide to importing vehicles, which is available at:

http://www.riv.ca/english/html/how_to_import.html

Additional information on importing a vehicle into Canada is accessible from the publication Importing a Vehicle Into Canada, on the Canada Border Services Agency Web site at:
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5048-eng.html

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) has rendered vehicles manufactured in the United States or Mexico free of customs duties. If the vehicle was made in any other country, an additional duty of 6.1 % would also be applied. Any excise duties or taxes may also be applicable.

Please note the goods and services tax of 5.0% is calculated on the duty-paid value of the price you have paid for the goods converted into Canadian currency. Where applicable, the provincial sales tax (PST) will be paid to your province of residence at the time of licensing.

Ensure that the vehicle is absolutely free from any trace of soil or organic matter before it is imported into Canada, otherwise it may be refused entry at the importer's expense.

Should you require additional assistance with your inquiry, or for a more detailed inquiry of whether duty will apply to your specific vehicle, we recommend that you contact the Border Information Service (BIS). You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling either 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply). If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak to an officer by pressing “0” after you have made a selection of one of the 4 menu options.

Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency.

kingkong....I think the above is relevant only if as a private person you are importing a USED car. The manufacturer has to pay 6.1% duty if the NEW car has less than 62.5% North American content.

kingkong, Rahter than continuing to complain about this please educate yourself by going to the link that HaroldS posted in this thread on August 22. If you read that it is VERY obvious that Tesla is required to pay the 6.1% duty.

Hi

would like to say that HaroldS is for the US version of the document
http://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/en/view.aspx?conID=590&mtpiID=128#A403

Here is a link the the Canadian docs
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2012/menu-eng.html

I can not find a mention of the 62.5% in Can. docs

would like to mention that under 8507.60,
"-Lithium-ion 8507.60.10 00 - - -For use as the primary source of electrical power for electrically-powered vehicles of subheading 8703.90". are duty free.

lturcotte,

I think the way Lithium-ion 8507.60.10 00 would be interpreted is that it's for the batteries only. So to do that you would have to import the batteries separately and then install them. This might cost more than 6% depending upon the number of cars imported. Bear in mind that you would have to pay the assemblers whether cars were being imported or not.

Also, even if you did it that way, I'm not sure that the Model S would pass in that many of the expensive parts aren't made in North America: brakes (Italy), display (Asia), steering gear (Germany), air suspension (Germany).

@jerry3
I agree with you.
wanted to point there are difference between Can and US Nafta documents.

I think the only way to avoid import tariff, would be to ask the Gov. to change the rules on electric cars.

Send emails to delete the 6.1% import duty to pm@pm.gc.ca

Done Stephen. thanks.

Moreover, I will be getting the coordinates of somebody at Ministry of Trade to raise awareness.

PB

Do you have an email template to send to pm?

toto....No.


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