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Tesla Model S = the best-selling car in Norway!

With a market share of 6.1% it out-sold the VW Golf (4,9%) and the Mazda CX-4 (4,2%) for the period 01.09 - 09.09.

That is pretty amazing! :-) Congratulations Tesla!

Source:

www.bilnorge.no

In Ontario we already only use 3% coal soon to be 0%. (down from 25% in just 10 years)
We pay the Americans to take excess electricity off our hands and pay producers not to pay!

There is for certain no shortage! So that is one thing I would not worry about by owning a Tesla. (no end of power ever!)

Benz is right we need EV's and to be charged at night at low rates to help absorb all of the excess electricity.

Alternative energy was at one point a side show not anymore. We have moved to a world of endlessly manufacturing energy (wind and solar) as opposed to drilling for it.

Energy shortage is soon to be a thing of the past. For 40+ years oil (main source of energy) has done nothing but go up. That era is over due to the fact oil will not be able to compete with rapidly falling in price "alternative" energy which can not be called that anymore just energy.

Can Norway plug in the entire country with very little increase in hydro needed? I know they have said in the U.S. for years as long as cars were plugged in at night no new facility needed to be built till at least 100 million EV cars. (a longggg way off)

Get an engineer drunk and ask him about the durability and servicing problems of windmills in the ocean. With no women or children around. I dare you.

The promised and projected lifespans of those eyesores is about 5-10X too high. Mark my words. Salt water is Nature's universal solvent. Chlorine and hydrogen ions don't fool around.

Brian we do not have any of those. All land based windmills.

Everyone is critical of them too but they are producing the power. Kind of like fracking Nat gas. Many of us do not like it but they are getting lots of it.

With FIT is the builder not out the money if salt rots the windmill?

We live in a world never so polarised about energy.

One thing I hear is that the wind does not produce all the time and we need hydrocarbon back up. (what a disaster)

Really though so what? It is not that coal is not effective we just can not take the emissions.

I think this era though is not going to be long. Once ways are found to store the energy then all complaints are off of course except that birds will still be hurt!

Sorry back to the thread.

Norway will sell buck loads of EV's and it will be all oil reduction.

That would be really awesome.

Windmills are not effective compared to equivalent solar production in my experience. We designed a 27kwh wind system for installation at our farm - required hydraulic system to raise and lower the tower for maintenance, and it would have produced inconsistent output as wind is variable and sometimes nonexistent. We ended up installing a 27kwh solar system (84 panels) on our barn for slightly less money and have zero maintenance, no big tower, no noise, and no down times, just a few days with less output due to clouds or rain. A no-brainer in my opinion.

@Dave

I agree with you that solar is a better way to go.

A problem that has been flagged in Norwegian media at irregular intervals is the coming green energy flood. We have a system for green certificates ("grønne sertifikater") that causes heavy investment into green energy production, and the projects underway are looking to produce so much power that within a few years we're going to drown in sustainable electricity we have no idea what to do with.

In part the complaints are probably coming from existing power plant owners/operators who are worried about the competition, but they wouldn't have wasted time bringing up if there wasn't something to it. Personally I don't quite understand the problem inherent in having "too much" electricity. And I do have at least one idea about what we can use it for … :D

Bent

I agree about having an idea of what to do with it all a nice Tesla! (electricity)

On the energy front it is a bubble brewing. My brother in law has 15 years before retirement (plant manager) at the wind mill factory if they do not hire another person or increase production at all in 15 years he will build more name plate capacity than the entire province of 13 million uses now! This is just "his" factory and just wind.

We are putting Solar panels on our roof for enough for the house and the (to come) Tesla. So my brother in law is not even going to get us as a customer for the EV. It is really not that much money either. Panels and a base Tesla are only just over $100k. (we are Nat gas for heat and major app)

It is just mind boggling what a cost advantage solar and a Tesla is over a gasoline car that gets it's fuel from the oil sands in Canada. Think of the monstrous process of turning "dirt" into a liquid fuel from a cold remote place in Canada shipping to markets. A huge energy intensive process.

This is such a monumental shift in the world it can not be overstated!

We are going to a world of energy abundance...

Norway is leading the way but many are going to follow.

I have done a fair bit of oil stock trading and I think oil is going to get creamed in a few years... Looking at the massive capital cost to produce oil from the marginal high cost producer Canada's oil sands.

I will be following the Norway story close. I still bet 50% EV share is pretty quick! Then it is going to be falling gasoline sales and starting the closing of the stations. I could not imagine building a new gasoline station in Norway???

A large winter high parked over the country will change your mind about depending on wind power. Its entire output will have to be backed up by weather-immune plants. Therefore the wind capacity is 100% extra cost.

Yes Brian wind may have to be backed up for us to live a modern life. I just do not get why having a fossil fuel "back up" is such a bad thing? Utility size energy storage is needed for sure. Many people have back up fossil fuel generators at their house but when it is utility size people think that is crazy just burn the fossil fuel. We are not burning coal to to the cost of fuel.

There is a Netflix documentary called Petroplois on the Canadian tar sands. They do not say a thing which is good. You make your own mind up they just fly over them.

They do say a little blurb about only using 3% of the resource that is available. So we are nowhere near running out of oil. The stone age did not end due to lack of stones.

I think most people who are buying a Tesla are using a fossil fuel car as a back up. This does not mean they should not buy a Tesla. It is a transition. It is a fossil fuel advertising campaign. Don't use wind and solar you need fossil fuel back up to be counted on which is true, don't buy a Tesla you need a ICE to back it up which is true.

I think the fossil fuel industry does not like going from being main supplier of fuel to "back up" who would? You are being told you are on the way out.

The cost of marginal oil production is unbelievable when you see the effort to turn dirt into liquid fuel. So not only are the tar sands dirty like coal they are crazy expensive.

Fossil fuels have no doubt an inherent advantage of being used on demand that of course wind will never have or solar.

Is it a bad thing to have fossil fuel back up generation for emergencies?

We are going to see a Country, Norway put oil as a back up fuel source for transportation going into decline.

What happens when the Model X and E hit Norway plus all the competition?

Fossil fuel back-up is a "bad thing" because you only have/get to use it sometimes (ramp up/down), which is both far more expensive, and often harmful to the equipment. Sometimes it can't even be done fast enough! So instead of a known conventional plant cost, you have significantly boosted conventional cost, PLUS the full renewables cost!! For (maybe) the same output. A very expensive luxury.

And the CO2 bugbear is bogus in the first place, so it's entirely unnecessary. Note that Germany is replacing its cancelled fission plants with brown coal plants, and Spain, Czech Republic, Poland and others are cancelling or ramping back all renewables subsidies, UK soon to follow -- because economics just aren't there. Denmark has the highest % of windpower, and the highest electric rates -- not coincidentally.

Norway has hydro power up the kazoo and a trillion-dollar accumulated surplus budget to play with. Wind power etc. is just fooling around, for them. But if you depend on it, you're going to be shafted.

@ Brian H

+1 Spot on!

"Fossil fuel back-up is a "bad thing" because you only have/get to use it sometimes (ramp up/down), which is both far more expensive, and often harmful to the equipment".

We do it every day here? The Nat gas use goes up and down as the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine. Coal is not expensive due to the fuel cost.

Electricity demand by nature goes up and down?

Is Germany not going to coal it in essence have more variable electricity only to produce more renewable right or wrong. These are industries now...

Now wind is less than 10% of our total pie. (Nuclear is the big one) If it was a very big number I can see more problems.

It is inevitable we are going to have large scale back-up compressed air or water or something.

To get back to the thread:
Do you all think that we can draw a conclusion from these Norwegian sales figures to indicate what will happen when they start delivering in the rest of Europe? Any guess?

@ NYC Realtor

My guess is that Norway is atypical as the financial incentive is so exceptional (no taxes, fees or VAT) that it will be difficult to see the same kind of adoption in the other countries. There is a significant EV interest in Europe of course. The degree of adoption I think will be very much related to the network of SCs. TM has announced an ambitions program throughout. But to see 5-10% MS or Gen III I believe is not realistic. Remember there are a good number of car producers in EU that also has an EV line-up. Mercedes for one and they use the TM drivetrain and battery technology.

But I have been wrong before....

To keeping to this thread in Ontario we have an easy 4,000 mwh of unused at night electricity. How many Tesla's does a megawatt charge at night. By this meaning Norway will have incentive for EV till unused power is used

Norway's power supply is over 99% hydropower, hydropower can be adjusted fast enough that there's no unused night electricity. There is however the possibility of importing unused german electricity during the night, this is mostly coal power that cannot be adjusted quickly enough. Curious to consider that the most environmentally friendly way to charge my Model S may be with coal power, seeing as how it already exists and might as well be used, thus freeing up hydro power for export to Germany during the day. Would also leave a tidy profit for my power company, coal power during the night is essentially free, but the hydro power can be sold at peak rates.

@Volleyguy

If you would 50 kWh in a Model S (on average), then it would take 1 mWh to charge 20 Model Ses.

Back on track:

Up to September 16th 2013 there have been 511 registrations of a Model S in Norway. That's great.

@Tes-s

I think Norway actually will profit on the "Tesla invation" in short term.
Tesla Motors are creating jobs by opening and running servicecenter, Stores and SuperChargers = more income tax
Less polloution meens reduced medisin expences (Paid by goverment for Astma etc)
Many of todays Model S buyers would not choose to buy another new car in the same price segment. I think the average S buyer today would buy or still drive a two year old 2.0L Diesel from BMW , Toyota Audi or VW
(New price about 80K$, used appr 60k $ )

In the long term there must be added 25% VAT and some other tax, but not before 2017 as mentioned above.

elkrokei;
Denmark often needs to pay other countries to take its excess windpower. Easy pickin's for Norway ...

In Europe all these countries should discuss with each other how to deal with all that excess power. Maybe they can think of an efficient solution from which all can benefit?

Brian and Benz
That is what I mean we always have our electricity at night to very early morning. The time when we pay the U.S. to take the electricity off our hands.

This is what I mean a million Tesla's charging when there is no demand is way to store excess energy.

Take Denmark for example a pile of Tesla's charging at night when there is no demand for the wind energy that just keeps coming will be a good thing.

This meaning what are the sales potential of Tesla?

A Megawatt is 1,000 kw. By my calculation a Tesla charges at 10kw/h. So every 100 Tesla's charging is a Megawatt? In Ontario we have AT LEAST 4,000 Megawatt drop in demand EVERY night.

So if we had 400,000 Tesla Model S's with 85kw bateries that were completely dead EVERY day this would be easy. The reality is most people do not drive 500km's a day. We are shutting down Nuclear reactors and paying windmills to stop.

The reality is an average drive per day would be 100km's. So we could have AT LEAST 2 million Tesla's here and the grid would be in much better shape!

So that is 100 years Tesla's current production just for Ontario! To make the grid more stable.

You guys and girls in Ontario should make all transportation electric in order to be able to consume all that energy.

Something that consumes a lot of electricity, that's what you need.

Benz I bet we are not far off Denmark.

A Tesla charged at night is just what the doctor ordered.

Just today in my home town was the unveiling of a free Level II Charger owned by Sun County. (I think 90 amp)(oddly enough listed as the most powerful charger in the world like they had not even heard of a Tesla SC?)

They had a Tesla roadster there that the Vice President owns.

We need a few million Tesla's and the sooner the better.


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