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Model S v2 for those of us with late sequence numbers in 2013

I have sequence number 12,848 so am in the back of the line so to speak and will probably get my hands on the Model S in June/July if I am lucky and production ramps up significantly.

For those of us getting the Model S in the latter part of next year due to our sequencing number, do you think we will be getting a slighly enhanced version of the car over those getting their deliveries today? Most vehicles have a normal lifecycle with small improvements that happen year-to-year. I understand the Model S will have most updates via software and so naturally i will have the latest firmware when getting my vehicle like most others.

However, I'm sure Tesla is going through a learning process on the Model S and as such will find things that they have the opportunity to improve. Perhaps items like folding mirrors where a software update may not do the trick but an actual physical improvement is required. Any thoughts on non-software updates they may make, or will they hold-off until the next iteration of the car even if they find things they can fix now?

-Simon
Seq #12,848
Production

Simon, definitely! Tesla has been continuously improving the Roadster, and I have not the slightest doubt that they will continue to do so with the Model S. At some point they will just stick a new label to the then current iteration, like 1.5 or 2.0, which will mark some sizable improvement over the previous version, but I presume that minor improvements will be made more or less continuously, on the hardware front as well as on the software front.

(Disclaimer: This is wild speculation by a single reservation holder and teslunatic with a low P reservation number that will already see some improvements over the currently delivered units because it will be among that first cars that are going to be delivered to Europe.)

I'm expecting the only difference to be that the bugs are worked out from the early builds. But until they offer a distinctly different version number (and pricing), I don't expect to see any significant differences between our cars and the early deliveries.

tesla.mrspaghetti, whether we agree or disagree depends on what you mean by "significant". I agree that the specs, dimensions and the idea of what this car should ideally be won't change, but I'm convinced Tesla will be inching closer to that ideal by improving detail after detail, most of which most of us won't notice. And of course, as you said, they'll work out the kinks for sure, and currently there's no shortage of those (see punch list).

(If you think they won't be improving the Model S until I get mine, be fair and don't mention it. It's the quantum of solace I cling on to, and I still have a couple months to go [Brian H, notice the absence of "of" after couple], don't take that from me! ;-)

Can anyone detail the key changes in the 1.0-2.5 Roadster evolution? Might give us some pointers to how the Model S might evolve.

Simon

How do you know your sequence number, and how can I find out mine? Or are you referring to your Reservation Number?

Cuz if RN is Sequence Number, then my delivery is in 2016+ as mine is
314000+ :)

At any rate... are you directing your question To TM or to the community at large. If the latter, then are you asking for what we think they should improve upon?

If so...

I'd say

- Wheel mounted cruise controls.
- Racing wheel or allow aftermarket (current too thick for my taste, and I have big hands)
- Relocate the gear shift to a more traditional location (low right side).

... to name a few.

JMHO

--- Cherif

@VB

I wouldn't do that to you buddy!

Being less precise than Brian H, I think I'll leave the word "significant" vague and undefined for purposes of this discussion :)

And for the record, I do think they will continue improving the S, but that any improvements made prior to a distinctly new version will also be retrofit to earlier builds.

Cherif, I'm conjecturing again, but from my limited point of view I don't see any of these happening (except, possibly, aftermarket steering wheel).

Particularly the gear shift -- Tesla is religious about their clean, uncluttered interior with exactly 2 physical buttons in the center stack and no center console. Where should the gear shift go? And isn't it actually utterly unimportant, given that there are no gears to shift?

The opinions re cruise control stick are varied, but many drivers not only got used to it in their MB, but actually think that it's one of the best user interfaces to cruise control that exist. I concede that others have the exact opposite opinion, but on the bottom line there definitely is no clear vote against it, so Tesla won't touch it IMO. Same goes for the beefy steering wheel, that I think is the same as in the E63.

I have to admit my view may be slightly hazy b/c I'm not only European, but actually German, but I think MB isn't particularly known for bad UI or crappy hardware and controls... ;-)

The things I'm missing from the current Model S are:

- Adaptive cruise control. I have this in my current Volvo and it's so incredibly nice when commuting. Just switch it on and forget about it.

- The rear view cameras shown on the Model X prototype. This seems to be such a good idea and I really want it!

- 4WD. Again, my current car has this and it's nice on those snowy swedish winter roads.

If adaptive cruise control and/or the rear view cameras will become available later next year I'd be willing to wait for them. I currently have #537 RN130046, whatever that means. I'm not counting on a 4WD version of the Model S anytime soon.

bredell, you should probably add those to this thread:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/musthave-wish-list

Here are the improvements Tesla made in the Roadster over time:

Roadster 1.0 (2008 model year) – Original release with two-speed gearbox.

Roadster 1.5 (2008, 2009 model years) – Improved motor to handle higher current and torque, improved inverter (PEM) to deliver higher motor current, new single-speed gearbox, new motor to gearbox coupler, and improved motor cable. All 1.0 Roadsters were upgraded at no cost to 1.5 Roadsters.

Roadster 2.0 (2010 model year) - Push button gear selection, touch screen moved to center console, glove compartment, sound deadening, adjustable, custom-tuned suspension, more powerful heating, ventilation and air-conditioning, optional executive interior of exposed carbon fiber and premium leather.

Roadster 2.0 Sport (2010 model year) - Hand wired motor with increased torque, adjustable suspension that can be tuned to the driver’s preference, lightweight forged black wheels.

Roadster 2.5 and Roadster 2.5 Sport (2011 model year) - New front fascia and rear diffuser, improved seats, improved hot climate performance, improved sound reduction, optional 7 in touch screen and backup camera.

@ Volker

"Particularly the gear shift -- Tesla is religious about their clean, uncluttered interior with exactly 2 physical buttons in the center stack and no center console. Where should the gear shift go? And isn't it actually utterly unimportant, given that there are no gears to shift?"

What about push-button gear selector on the dash (2013 Lincoln MKZ has it)? Some machnical push-button transmission selectors were used in the mid 50's through about 1963 (Chrysler & Ford) and electronic push-buttons have been used on trucks and buses for a number of years with much success.

@Cherif - you should have received the sequence number with your email. It should not be higher than 13k-14k at this point.

@Forum -
Looks like we think that there may be small differences between the 2012 model being delivered in December and something that gets delivered in June of next year as they work out kinks physically.

Oh!! That number! :)

Hum, then that still can't be right. That number is substantially smaller than yours - almost the exact opposite of my first misunderstanding.

When did you make your reservation?

--- Cherif

Congratulations on your order, simonpsingh--good to know someone is after me! (I'm 12,198).

I've thought about this as well. Based on the Roadster history, I might guess there would be a 2.0 version for the 2014 model year (1 1/2 years after introduction). Since I'm not terribly optimistic about the ramp-up and when I'll get my car (I expect it will be after next summer), the question will be whether to defer 3-6 months to wait for a 2014.

Volker

I must admit that I am at a loss to come up with an alternate location for a "gear" shifter that doesn't violate the Tesla Religion on this score, so I'll just have to live with it just as I did with the Roadster.

However, I must take exception with the conceit that the stick mounted cruise control is the best UI. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's the dumbest feature given the circumstance. I'll explain...

Ever since taking delivery of my Roadster, I was always impressed by its ability to maintain whatever speed I'd set in the cruise control thanks to the regenerative breaking system.

As a result, I have taken to driving almost exclusively with CC at just about all driving regimes. The obvious benefit here is that it helps maximize range.

The one drawback? Having to constantly shift my grip on the wheel.

Again, I'll have to live with this too, but would rather hot have to.

A "Simple" solution might be to repurpose the volume control, I suppose.

--- Cherif

Cherif, I have not had the same experience with my Roadster regarding better range with the CC. But that may be because I am quite religious about watching my kw meter. And I have lots of rolling hills. So maybe that is why it is better for me.

I've no doubt that driving without cc can lead to max range just as well, I just figure that the computer can do a more consistent job of it than I on a regular basis.

I guess that a more scientific approach might be in order. Log energy use for a week of manual then a week of cc?

All I know is that when I took my lead foot out off the equation, my range improved markedly.

--- Cherif

@Cherif I agree. MUCH prefer to have the CC controls on (behind) the steering wheel within finger reach without having to move my hands.

There has been some interesting debate on how good cruise control is on maximizing range vs. an alert and range-focused driver:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/cruise-control-minimum-speed
(the interesting part of that discussion, IMO, starts towards the bottom of page 1 and continues on page 2)

Here's another thread that starts off from another angle but ends up being closely related:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-image

EDIT: ...how good cruise control is on

    at

maximizing range...

Darn, mixed up the html tags. We do need a real edit feature! Without it, it just gets worse every time I try to correct something....

I have had my S for 2 weeks, now, and I am still not used to the position of the cruise stalk. It is right at 10 o'clock on the steering wheel where your left hand rides; you can easily flick it while holding the wheel. Unfortunately, this is where the directional stalk is on most cars (Lexus comes to mind)and on 3 occasions I have increased my speed, thinking I was hitting the blinker. Cruise controls should be in a less conspicuous place since it is meant to be used (generally) once on a trip, yet you need to use directionals much more frequently. I hope it doesn't take me too long to get used to this.

This is an opinion post, so don't take it too seriously. I have neither a Roadster, nor a Model S reservation, although my next car will be a Tesla.

From looking at the upgrades that the Roadster went thru for each of its versions, I'm of the opinion that the S won't see as many versions. Each time a flaw, or oversight was found on the Roadster, it got a new version wherein that flaw/oversight was corrected with new hardware and systems. Maybe some of those upgrades were planned to be new versions, I really don't know, but from an observers perspective, that's how it appeared to me.
With the experience from the Roadster, I don't believe S will have the same number of issues, thus it shouldn't require newer versions as often. The software updates and upgrades should keep the S feeling "fresh" for longer periods of time, as compared with traditional autos. I do see newer versions of S incorporating better tech as it becomes available and is integrated into the car (AWD, for example, or revised sensors and display options), just not as frequently.

dvclifford;
I've seen it said that the new recommended driving hand position s/b 9-3. This is to avoid having the hands removed when the airbag inflates.

I don't know if it's for the airbag or for other reasons, but in this video you can clearly see that Nobuhiro 'Monster' Tajima prefers 9-3 when driving the Model S; and he sure knows how to drive!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo-DiEIoeUM

The corresponding thread in this forum is here:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/new-tesla-video-monster-meets-mo...

Airbags don't remove hands when inflated unless you use really weird grip (hands not in the wheel, but at poles or something like that). 10-2 position is perfectly safe. Something between that and 9-3 is where modern cars have steering wheel cushions for hands.


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