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Esoteric EV ramblings.

Very msc. EV topics. Freewheelling, where decorum to "stay on topic" is not so critical.

This is for would this work, would that work? Can go far afield here and not get in way of people trying to get very pertinent and specific information about their present and future vehicles. Can discuss economic and politiical environment around EVs. Tentitive new ideas welcome, do not feel intimidated here. Do not have to be soo topically diciplined here. Veer off topic if you so choose but overall try to keep it in the EV ballpark. Joking around is fully ok but rudeness is not. Extreme nitpicking about other's post is considered rude, especially people trying to communicate in english and it's not their native language.

Any comments on the VW I mentioned in the "tired of going to the gas station thread"?

Come on with any new ideas folks, if you dont have a tough hide this is where you develop one and learn to parry back with those that don't agree with you. You can be sure there will be some of these but have no fear.

After the Japan earthquake disaster and ensuing nuclear plant disters leads one to think "just how safe" can nuclear plants be made in the event of natural disaters, enemy attacks etc. Do they not then become a liability, if so how much safer can they be made to be. Maybe underground or something of this nature.

And as far as this question goes how safe can hydroelectric plants with their huge dams be made to be aside from attacks from militarty enemies.

Remember someone mentioning new type of fusion energy that would be sort of a neighborhood to neighborhood type set up, same question how safe can these be made to be? Then the thing gets down to a house hold to household type fusion that was discussed and the question here would this be likely an overall safer plan as the danger would be somewhat decentralized so to speak?

For BrianH, Sorry, disasters was mispelled once.

For BrianH, Sorry, misspelled was misspelled,ha.

Who all has seen the VW scheduled for release in China next year. 600 dollars USA. Two hundred fifty something miles per gallon. One cylinder diesel. 1.7 gallon fuel tank with total range of 404 miles. Not even painted to save weight, just made with some kind of polished plastic like material. Friend of mine says this is not entirely new concept as he owned something similar to this when lived in California and loved it, very tough, Italian make of some kind. Sold it to his barber one day and made a profit after drving it a year or so. As I said is this what some of the critics were saying about America buying big SUV's and macho pickups. I repeat bring them here now and see how quick we pounce on this technology. This type vehicle should take some of the pressure off until EV's full impact can be felt.

Bet this will get some response as the dreaded perpetual motion word is used. Aside form the scientific term that says the whole universe is running down? How close to a perpetual motion machine would a waterwheel be at a gristmill that was located at a millpond that was on a stream that had never been known to run dry be?

Another question "Can anything that turns round and round be theoretically rigged so that it will produce eletricity" Let's use a wheel with a tire on it for an example.

Consider this site the "Coast to Coast AM" site for the EV world.

Make that consider this thread the "Coast to Coast AM" thread for the EV world,

Does anybody have an idea of how constant our coastal breezes are on a global basis, like the wave power seems we might take a look at this how much input vs output potential.Investment wise and at what point do we pay ourselves back if ever.

Liked the wave power and tidal current power etc. Of couse there would be glitches to overcome as with any new technology butI bet this could be worked out pretty good over time.

Have been hearing about solar flares or something of this nature acting up a bit lately, is this having any efeect on you who gather solar to power your EV's. Think this is such a cool {or rather hot} concept. Keep it up.

mrfixit had a cool idea for engine on "new engine" thread. Sounded great, time for a little peer review now, I guess. You all check it out.

Timo had some interesting thoughts on 500 and better mile batteries might be closer than we think. Guy knows his batteries and also knows this is the critical issue right now and Tesla probably watching this like a hawk to as they to realize this is the issue above all issues and will probably continue to lead the charge.

BrianH, up to his usual antics, is confoozed about something, cracked me up.

Timo also bringing some very sesible comments about ground clearance, I agree Tesla needs to raise this clearance for good global sales. That once was why Volvo was a good global seller at one time, high clearance in rough terrain. Don't even know where they are at with clearance now. Also why they had mudflaps,ha. It aint all Pacific Coast Highway folks. But that clearance will probably come up later when they move on off Rodeo Drive etc. etc. Right now sure they know what they are doing.{making bucks} a good thing, of course, for all of us. So they can as BrianH said "run before they can walk". By the way where are you Brianh? Have you "left the building",thkyuvermuch.

Waiting to here opionions on the new VW "most ecocomical car in the world" to be introduced in China next year. Wish it was coming to USA, I would buy me one of those bad boys. Poor man's way to fight high energy costs. Until the working mans EVs come down the pike. Just an enclosed motorcycle but thats about all the Chev Sprint and Geo Metro I owned were, and tough as nails. So not really a radiically new concept.

China getting the Iraq oil,congrats to them I guess. Could we borrow a little oil to guys, were kind of getting in jam on that one to.

Back to the rotating wheel with tire on it,just theoretically now could we concievably have a stip say a mile or two set up very close, for our experiment, to the tires simililar to a guard rail and have some kind of elotro generating devices built into the wheel and have electo reccptor devices all along our guard rail type device very close to the wheel that could recieve and store this electrical energy created by the interaction of the electro devices in the wheel and on the guard rail devices and then hire an extremely good driver to drive close to the guard rail devices a mile or two and any substatntial energy be stored in the guard rail type devices or receptors. Kind of acting like electical energy being tranmitted across nerve synapes in all parts of the human body. The devices wouldn't be touching, just very close. Could this possibly generate and recive and store eletrical energy?

Hit'em straight everybody.

Hey you guys are really slamming with some very viable and useable information, especially on the "Model S" forum now. Hope some of you who were beginning to get a little jaded will check some of this stuff out, really pertinent stuff. Congrats and my hat's off to all of you.

I wonder if searcher has figured out that he's talking to himself yet?



Back to the tire and wheel experiment. I know to many they can't see an endgame to this experiment but I assure there is one just have to get by one challege at a time to see if can proceed to nest one. May be a totally undoable thing I am thinking of but just have to take it one step at a time and see. Need to change the experiment up a little incorporate the electo generating device {ultra light} into the wheel and tire or both for all four wheels and run them very close to the type guard rail typeccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc Greg, old chap, Thats not a problem, after all I love to have an intelligent converstion now and then. devices

Sorry guys I dozed off during that last post As i was saying in regards to changing the experiment up, drive the car with all four wheels close to the devices with some sort of elctro receptor devices in the guard rail type things for mile or two and see if any electircal energycould be "jumped off" so to speak onto the receptor devices and stored in some fashion or another. This experiment does have a purpose just have to take it one step at a time and was hoping some of you technically conversant types could supply the information if some devices needed in the experiment were in existance or could be devised or totally out of the realm of possibilities. Stick with me I promise all this seeming nonsense does have an endgame in mind. Oh yes don't mean to imply a "road warrior" type design either and would like some way to measure if any lost energy occuring in the car other than just normal driving of that distance .

Know last night compared this with nerve synapse in human body but this would not quite apply as the nerves if not touching would be in contact via chemical electolite solution {or something like that}.

Hope some of you technical type people could tell me if this experiment could be carried out with current technology. And then we could move onto next steps I have in mind. Would also need to consider safety issues as we go along to. Very graciously aprreciate any help with this.

Not to worry if none want to address my questions one of best mechanical engineering schools in the entire world just a phone call away. Perhaps could get someone there to answer some of my questions, perhaps not , guess we will see.

Was almost sure that someone on this website would be able to adress my questions unless maybe I am being deliberately ignored. If this is the case then that's cool to. I think I will be able to carry on with no great personal trauma.

I am after all only trying to do what several wanted me to do and carry a lot of esoteric discussion out of the way of more mainstream excahange of information, well I certainly tried to comply and now am just asking for a little technical insights and just getting the "silent treatmentment". I must say "very classy" behavior. So classy that ggr couldn't contain himself or the motive, yes very classy.

It's called a maglev train and it's already been done.
What you describe sounds almost exactly like how they work.

Do a google search on it, "maglev train"

They get their power from the track without touching it. You have to be so close and perfectly lined up that it has to be done on a track.

Sudre, I graciously appreciate your response. Yes I have heard this train discussed on this site before. Believe where I am trying to go is different than the "maglev train" and it is very, very possible that it is unworkable, but I can't fully explain it until each step of the experiment is explored as workable or unworkable.Think the "maglev train was dependnding on external power source going to the train primarily. Is this correct? Where I am trying to go is a type of regen {not pepetual motion though}. If can get established that electrical energy can be ,shall whe say, thrown through the air for very sort distance safely and picked up by receptor and stored withour any drains of energy on moving wheels. Then can take this manipulation internally to the car with even safer and possibly better transmission and reception and storage of electical energy. But first have to get established can the electicity by generated my rotating wheels with no loss of effecielcy onto a receptor and then stored. If can establish this might be looking at another type of regen. I have been through several tecno beatdowns about this concept theory previously. Every body trying to assign this concept to the perpetual motion machine bin. But I don't deter that easy. Said I wouldn't discuss this further on site but got my own thread now. And like the old tune says "it's my party and I'll cry if I wont to" I will say "it's my thread and I'll discuss it if I wont to".

But again I do appreciate your coming on the thread with the information and any and all further information you may have I will graciously appreciate.

I know we are not suppose to get personal but I sincerely hope ggr impressed whoever he was trying to with his sophormoric cutesy little comment yesterday. "Oops" my bleep. Take that and run under the bank with it ggr.

Let's keep the heroes trying to deal with the nuclear disaster in our hearts and thoghts and for those so inclined send up prayers for them. Very selfless heroes indeed.

The thread is mislabelled.
S/B "The Loony Bin - Population: 1".


Well BrianH, Thanks for accepting my gracious invitation for input. Good to see you are in fine form as usuual. Considered that title seriously but ws afraid it might attract too many uh, you know, uh, loons. Hurry back. Hope you felt uh, right at home. Have patientice with some perhaps what seems looney to you. Remember Tesla himself. You know what might seem like looniness to the more standerdized, generic, types some in cases be quite creative people. So all loons now you have heard it, your looniness will not be shunned here so standardized and more "out of the box" types, your input is always appreciated.

thnkyuvermuch BrianH

Had mentioned "Coast to Coast AM" earlier. Would like to see George Noory and some of the Tesla people do a radio show, would generate tons of publicity and interest for Tesla. Of course there is some "way out" stuff on the show and areas that probably be best not delved into too much but a lot of interesting, legit stuff to. George Noory is a big Tesla fan as are a lot of his listeners. Noory is also a most congenial, personable, host and a great listener. Think I will contact Noory or Tesla on this.


thanks for inviting me to discuss here with you. Right now I feel seriously embarrassed with "nuclear engineering". Reason is of course Japan nuclear disaster with Fukushima Daiichi fission reactors.


You guys promoting fusion reactors don't be so snobby to think, safety problems won't arise with you. The idea of safety engineering is to make the word "unfortunately" disappear from ALL incident reports for the lifetime of your design. Period.

examples needed?
"unfortunately the magnitude of [enter external event here] exceeded anything we could imagine when designing the apparatus"
"the emergency power supply was designed with threefold redundancy. unfortunately, the tsunami washed away all three of them."
"unfortunately, there is no containment for the spent nuclear fuel pond"
and so on. Best pieces are from nuclear engineer's blogs...

Plus, I am completely outside the window with any ideas from the "perpetuum mobile" corner. Energy is conserved. We live in an open system, energy flows in and out. Sun shines, rain falls, rivers flow, wind blows. Sun is source of endless power, well beyond the needs of earth's complete population.

We must find better ways to harvest it (down here, not in orbit) and store it. Any new ideas about very efficient energy conversion devices like Tesla turbine, "wind methane", redox flow batteries will do good in this topic. But only conversion, not generation.

The fusion rig at is a tiny little thing with zero radioactive input or output materials. You might be able to poison yourself if you quickly smashed through into the small (2' diameter) vacuum chamber and managed to inhale the rarified decaborane plasma fuel before it condensed into a little bit of powder and fell to the floor. But you'd have to be quick! It condenses at about 410°F, and solidifies at about 210°F. ;)

As for sunshine, its problem is that it is DIFFUSE energy. That mandates lots of real estate, lots of transmission infrastructure, lots of collector gear. And it's INTERMITTANT: it is totally unsuited for base load service, as it requires 100% conventional backup for "dark times" (cloud and night, e.g.)

And notwithstanding the idiotic "feed-in tarriffs" in (e.g.) UK and Germany, it is pointless to rely on it above the lower latitudes. Especially in winter, when power is needed most. (And before you talk about transmission from the Sahara, costs and losses of such grids are ruinous.)

And so on. Fuggedaboudit.

Ugh, typoz: intermittent, tariffs.

VolkerP, Thanks very much for reviewing my experiment and unederlying focus. Agree with better job of harvesting. Believe we have some pretty constant sources on the planet such as tidal currents, hydroelecrric, etc. Believe we can come up with devices to match these comparartive constants.

Would you believe such a strong earthquake, heard it left chasm miles wide and 100 miles long, dont know how deep. Not sure about all this though.

Very much class demonstrated by you to not distance yourself from the situation.

Of course I don't think so but there will be questions raised as I mentioned earlier does someone have some ominous Tesla like technology available used near a fault zone that could trigger and broadly pinpoint quakes. Hope not, but if so, hope we all find out soon.

Crrection: Chasm fifty miles wide or deep?

BrianH, Your stuff on fusion was at least somewhat reassuring, Know we have to go there for elctricity.

Aside from all the funny stuff you aren't a slouch technologically. {Not sucking up now.} TCB and Thnkyuvermuch

Class, Class, Qustion now. Could battery be classified as a facillitating device to capture electirical from a near constant energy souch and manipulting this electical energy via storage etc. to be used later? Electical turbines via forces acting on them and turning them are generating this electicity.Next question are these turbines losing any elctical energy in the process and the overwhelming forces actiong on turbine over compensting for any lost energy thus giving plus energy. Next question could devices be set up delivering mechanical energy to a wheel be devised causing wheel to turn{with built in drag etc simulating wheel turning on ground}. So wheel is turning with simulated drag exerting forces on it etc. Now could another device be arranged in such away that it did not interfer with or altter drag and other forces working on wheel. Next then could the overwhelming force of the wheel {drag and every energy drain taken into acoount} turning and having turbine like ultra light weight device built into wheel and this wheel acting {also] as a dynano similiar to action of turbine in the power plant then tranmit through {totally unconnected device x, not interferring with dynamics of presently turning wheel} electicity to another point and the wheel is doing its thing with no interference from device x.

If the mysterious device x can not be created or invented that will do this job in tandem with dynamo built into wheel and this is absolutely undoable and you have tried over and over to explain to me why it can't be done and it perplexes or angers you that I am so stubborn please don't let this bother you just pass it over and totally disregard and don't let it annoy you in any way. I apologize in advance for being so bullheaded but their just seems like in my intuitive process there is a breakpoint in here somewhere that can be exploited. Can't give any reason why other that just feel it in my gut. Surely have studied "Laws of Thermodynamics" in high school physics class but have long forgotten them.


To give some indication why LPP is so safe:

- start products are non-radioactive boron and hydrogen

- reaction does no cause any radioactive radiation, only heat and ion stream

- end products are non-radioactive helium-ions.

- it requires power to keep up running, damaging accident just shuts it down.

- shutting things down is matter of flipping a switch, happens as soon as capacitors do not get signal to shoot.

There just is no potential for disaster any more than there is potential for ICE generator to cause disaster. Even rupturing fuel tanks is not a big deal, tiny amount of hydrogen is enough for huge energy in fusion reactor. Much less than HFC cars have.

Biggest problem could be that it doesn't start when it is supposed to by some device malfunction. Or as with any high-power electrical device that someone gets electrocuted.

This device really is revolutionary, it makes every other electricity generating device obsolete.

@Timo & BrianH,

I understand from site that the desired fusion reaction is

11H + 115B => 3 42He.

and it looks harmless in technical and physical way. Let's assume your hopes come true and we get a cheap, tiny, fail safe, tampering-proof fusion reactor. With cheap and nontoxic fuel in reasonable availability. What will happen if you deploy it in vast numbers all over India. Brazil. Vietnam. Or any other rapidly emerging economy?
They will de-learn their traditional way to live with their given assets which provide them with water, energy, food, fertilizer, mobility.
Natural resources will lose their value because they are no longer needed.
They will fry their country with the thermal output of power plants. But that's no problem because powerful air conditioning is now affordable. It will stop to rain but that's no problem because water can be distilled from even the dirtiest sources. There are no more woods or any noteworthy vegetation but that's no problem because you don't go outside any more. There is no more agriculture but that's no problem because food can imported.

Too exaggerated? Compare it with another country where TODAY energy is so cheap they don't give a damn on it. Saudi Arabia. Wanna live there?

Fusion may improve our future life, it may disrupt it. It is beyond technical design issues.

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