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Model S on the Autobahn

http://www.the-press-news.com/ap%20financial/2012/11/01/tesla-motors-bri...

is there anything out? Reviews, Videos etc?
I want to see the car go 212KM/h on the german highway...how far will it go?

Not far. I'm guessing somewhere between 70 and 80 miles.

did anybody go to Munchen?
Made pictures?

hey Timo, I think that's not correct, because of regen... if the EPA said 265miles, with full throttle it will be at least the half of it

Uh-oh! We have the "luxury" vs "premium" issue popping up again:
"the most advanced luxury performance sedan available today."
...
Model S is the world's first premium sedan...

This reads almost like a press release, lots of general info, not much reporting.

Regen would not help. You lose that energy (mainly) to air drag, it does not have anything to do with the kinetic energy you gain during acceleration or deceleration. It is just lost.

According to this graph, I think Timo is right:

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/graph1.jpg

I redid my drag calcs and based on real world capacity of the batteries (a % is held 'hidden' by tesla and doesn't seem to be able to be used) it looks like c.98 miles at 130mph (210 kph)

Model S graph follows very closely Roadster with a near constant approx 80Wh/mile component (rolling resistance I guess). Roadsters graph goes at higher speeds and shows about 800Wh/mile at 130mph (with a bit extrapolation from the graph). That means about 880Wh/mile for 85kWh battery = 96 miles.

I think nickjhowe is correct. It is closer to 100miles if you use full 85kWh.

On the other side... how many have ever driven 160 km non-stop at 200+ km/h on the German Autobahn? It has hardly ever been possible for me anyway, lots of roadworks and traffic.

All we know so far has been discussed in these threads:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/300-mi-now-265-mi-after-epa-test
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-image

It won't be long now that we will have actual empirical data available to answer this question!

how many have ever driven 160 km non-stop at 200+ km/h on the German Autobahn? It has hardly ever been possible [...] (ar)

200+ km/h is indeed hard to sustain for any significant distance, but depending on the region of Germany and the time of the day, a sustained speed of 170-190 km/h (100-120 mph) is sometimes in fact possible. Whether it's necessary or reasonable, are entirely unrelated questions... ;-)

I think, especially on highways/Autobahn regen is an important topic...
The amount of KW/h-usage is speculation..isn't it?
The model S is far more efficient in this regards than the roadster...
Cw 0,24... low center of gravity...
if You go 120 mph and you have to slow down, because of a truck or a grey lady, the regen fully kicks in.

I think, especially on highways/Autobahn regen is an important topic... (Whity Whiteman)

I don't think so. At those speeds, there is major aero drag (which is why range suffers so badly), thus merely not pushing the car will already quickly slow it down. In most cases, there won't even be an opportunity to engage regen, unless:

if You go 120 mph and you have to slow down, because of a truck or a grey lady, the regen fully kicks in. (Whity Whiteman)

Correct, but remember how much energy you already spent to fight the aero drag. This cannot be regained, not even theoretically and under ideal circumstances. You can get back (some percentage of) the energy that was required to lift the car to a different potential (read: drive uphill), and of the energy that was required to accelerate the car to some top speed. But the energy that is needed to sustain constant speed is irreversibly gone (at least inaccessible for regen). Thus, for long stretches of autobahn, regen won't make any noticeable difference.

The model S is far more efficient in this regards than the roadster... (Whity Whiteman)

Not entirely true. It is far heavier (which is almost irrelevant at constant speed but very relevant during acceleration) and has a far larger frontal area. Total aero drag is Area x Drag Coefficient. Based on rough estimates (from product pictures), it can be assumed that the better Cd value will practically offset the larger frontal area, i.e., the Roadster and the Model S will have quite similar total aero drag at high speeds.

Low center of gravity helps with handling (road grip) but does nothing for efficiency/fuel economy.

@Volker "It is far heavier (which is almost irrelevant at constant speed" - not quite true. Up to c. 60 MPH, due to the very low CD, rolling resistance is dominant over aero drag. Aero becomes very dominant only at v. high speeds. Since rolling resistance is proportional to weight, the high weight of the S contributes significantly to the energy use compared to the Roadster.

nickjhowe, thanks for filling in the details which I was too lazy to get into. :-) Whity is focusing on speeds 100+ mph so I decided that "almost" is an adequate summary.

ok ok, we will see.
But if the range under full throttle is 80-90 Miles, than the regen should bring another 20-30 or whatever miles.
But I'm just speculating so far... the regen should be better than in the roadster. And while You accelerate- it does matter, where the gravity goes- the roadster has the weight in the back, the model S nearly 50/50... sorry, this should bring something...!?

Here is a link to a norwegian review of the model S.
At around 2:40 he reaches 190+ km/h on autobahn..
But as this tread turned out to a discussion about range at high speeds and the fact that the journalist driving the Tesla brake down just after reaching 190+ makes my post useless I guess :)

http://www.autofil.no/905017/vi-har-kjort-tesla-model-s

How do you figure that regen should give you anything? It takes only seconds to go from 100+mph to zero with regen and you don't gain much anything at that time. Same with acceleration, you don't lose much in there, it is the constant part of the driving that drains the battery.

CoG doesn't give you much anything either from energy POV. I don't see how it could. It pretty much only affects handling. Could you elaborate why you think those things matter?

SignatureNorway, thank you for the video! I did not understand a word, but it was fun watching, particularly b/c it was recognizably driving on German roads. I could very much see myself in the driver seat in that video! :-)

@whity - I agree with Timo. CoG makes no difference, and not sure where all this regen is coming from in your scenario. Regen is dependent on you slowing down. Constant speed means zero regen. The regen slowing from 100mph to zero gives you something, but a lot less than getting to 100 in the first place. If you are constantly speeding up and slowing down because of traffic then, yes, regen is better than nothing but you are still losing out because it doesn't put back what you need to keep accelerating.

Gentleman, maybe I'm just to optimistic.

Nick is correct, if you are comparing driving at a constant 120Mph with frequent slowing and speeding up for drivers etc then even with regen the constant speed scenario will always give you better range. Regen never adds range it simply reduces the range lost, it allows some part of the energy that would otherwise be lost in slowing to be recaptured however the full energy expended to reach speed can never be fully recaptured.

My suggestion as part of the European media blitz is to get a track team and a vehicle up to the Nurburgring, commonly considered the gold standard road torture test and racing test bed. There are many serious motoring enthusiasts who have discounted the Model S's ability to even complete a lap let alone post a decent time. Posting a decent lap time would add a new layer of credibility to this vehicles capabilities and particularly introduce the Model S to high performance vehicle owners, drivers and enthusiasts as a serious prospect.

My first post on the forum, and a thank you from Volker = very happy!!
Spends an hour a day on this forum, so it was about time that a posted something :)

Welcome SignatureNorway to the Forum.

Funny how that Tesla rep keeps looking nervously and the speed counter!

Whity;
I see your vision: put the pedal to the metal, and don't lift off till the car rolls to a stop!

exactly =)


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