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Red or Blue?

We have had a number of purchaser polls asking about our age, our demographics, our location, etc. I have been quite curious about our politics, but I worried that a controversial subject like politics (or religion?) might be unwelcome. However, a couple of threads have now broken the ice by discussing the presidential debates and government tax policies. And we are, after all, entering the Silly Season. So I thought I'd ask: are you a tree-hugging liberal, a fat-cat conservative, or a wishy-washy independent? Do you favor Obama, Romney, or someone else? Please keep the commentary and argument to a minimum. I'm really just trying to get an idea of how we compare to the population at large. Non-US purchasers are welcome to vote.

I'll start:

I'm a Democrat favoring Obama.

Blue S in a Blue State. Solar on roof. Sunny SoCal, we love you.

What republican buys a Tesla anyway? Cadillac has a new EV coming next year, it will be a flashy, plasticky, 100% republican machine. And will look perfect next to your Escalade or Hummer - Do us all a favor and wait for that one.

An Aside -
At least Romney is just a stupid mouthpiece for the corporate machine. Christy is fat and stupid, like to see him squeeze that girth into a Roadster - ;}

Independent and voting for Romney

$21 trillion in debt is crazy, pretty sure we will be $26 trillion in debt after for more years of Obama.

Hope and change only fools me once. Can't run on that one twice.

Four more years (not for), that is, and a Blue model S

Damn, I thought there would be no math...... $16 trillion now and $21 trillion in 4 more years

Romney for sure. The last 4 years have painfully omitted the obvious areas of focus. Whomever wins, has a tough job ahead of them, and has no influence on my car purchase.

Red, Obama needs to go!

Although I prefer to think of myself as an Independent thinker, I'm pretty blue. However I would seriously consider voting for a republican, if I could find one (just one!) who didn't say he was going to lower taxes and balance the budget!

Honesty, and the ability to do math would be my first criteria for any candidate!

And please, the excuse that everyone else is doing the same won't do. I've already tried that one out on a State Trooper!

A Tesla owner voting for Romney is like a Christian voting for Satan!

Have you all forgotten how many times the Romney Machine has dissed all things Tesla. He is so ill advised and uninformed. (seriously, he"ll say anything - did you hear him tell Ohio that all Jeep production was moving to China?) Lies, Lies, Lies.

And talk about the debt .... Much of the current debt springs from the Bush era war mongering. Have you forgotten that the republicans got us into this. Milking the surplus for all it was worth. Cheney and the oil fat cats laughing all the way to the bank. Seriously, You guys believe all this spin and crap? I'm happy to pay my share and have worked for every dollar I have. Including the 92K I'm plopping down on My S next month. No trust fund here. Just hard work, research, education.

Someone Has to Pay for the Replibcan Bush Era Wars

I am a nonpartisan. I like to think of my values as socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

The two parties are now primarily about vanquishing their opponent at the expense of getting anything done, All we hear is acrimony about how bad the other guy is.

This current arrangement is unsustainable and needs a radical redesign to incentivize people to work together.

It is absurd to go along with all positions of one party's platform (even those we strongly disagree with), in order to assemble a big enough battering ram to force an issue through. That's morally and intellectually corrupt.

My Euopean in-laws absolutely love Obama because they feel he thinks like they do.

On the other hand, they all complain about their own economies and look wistfully at the relative prosperity and free choice we enjoy here.

Because of the way the current system works, for my vote to have any influence, I have to pick one of these two guys - even though I may disagree with both on many issues.

In complicated, multidimensional situations, I look for the centerpiece issue that differentiates the choices and I decide based on that.

To me, the issue that defines this election is our economic future. Productivity is the source of our power to address whatever problems may confront our times. Without prosperity, we can't improve anything, and everyone is worse off. Without growth, our confidence and ability diminishes, and we are screwed.

I've spent a lot of time in Europe and I love it, but I could not imagine conducting my business or making a living there. My wife's family in Denmark pays 220% tax on new cars (except EVs!). My MB SL costs $350K in Denmark, and their are probably 5 in the entire country. An iPhone costs nearly $1,000. That's crazy.

People get socialized medicine and give up with more than half their pay to pay for it, even at modest income. Yet what do people increasingly do? They opt for private insurance to exercise choice instead of using the state-assigned physician.

Nothing is free in life, but some things are certainly a better deal. Socialized medicine is simply something you pay for another way, but you do pay for it, and you give up some of your power to choose.

I think President Obama believes with all his heart that the Eupoean model is better, and it's the paradigm we should follow.

From what I've seen over the last 25 years, it really doesn't seem to work better. People are poorer and less free.

On our current course, we will owe 20 trillion dollars in 36 months. No one will repay this but us ... and our kids. This is voluntary self-destruction.

The government contributes almost no revenue from its operation. Instead, we as taxpayers are the only source of resources to fuel the government.

When things get this serious, i believe it's appropriate for us as voters to ask change in the status quo. One way to do this is to ask for new leadership, and to hold them accountable for their mission.

For this reason, I'm not voting for Obama.

Judging from the forum chatter, this is not the cool thing to do.

But acts of conscience are often at odds with fashion, and you do them just the same.

BTW, it baffles me that Romney keeps mentioning Tesla, I think he doesn't know enough about what distinguishes them to realize they are the very kind of growth we so desperately need.

GTC;
Acquaint yourself with the Laffer curve.
http://www.laffercenter.com/arthur-laffer/the-laffer-curve/
There's arithmetic, and then there's economics. And a balance point.

I think President Obama believes with all his heart that the Eupoean model is better, and it's the paradigm we should follow.

What do you think is "Eupoean model"? EU is not a country, we have all kinds of "models" here. There are commonalities like good healthcare for everyone and not only for rich, but it is not same system everywhere.

@Captain_Zap Lol

@Timo

There are commonalities like good healthcare for everyone and not only for rich

You consider waiting lists for CT scans and other medical services to be "good healthcare"?

And contrary to what you may believe from media reports, everyone (not just the rich) gets health care in the US who needs it. And it's pretty good.

Mark K, great post. We have an individual in Floroda, that is running a political add that explains that going to socialism will make the rich poorer ( that is in vogue) but it will also make everyone else, except the party leaders ,poorer.. .. Tesla is going to be very successful, and Romney will probably end up buying one

Brian H | OCTOBER 31, 2012
GTC;
Acquaint yourself with the Laffer curve.
http://www.laffercenter.com/arthur-laffer/the-laffer-curve/
There's arithmetic, and then there's economics. And a balance point.

I looked at the link you provided, and at least on the surface it appears pretty balanced.

Here is a very relevant and revealing quote for the site you cited:

"Importantly, the Laffer Curve does not say whether a tax cut will raise or lower revenues, nor does it predict that any and all tax rate reductions would necessarily bring in more total revenues. Instead it says that tax rate reductions will always result in a smaller loss in revenues than one would have expected when relying only on the static estimates of the previous tax base. "

In my book a smaller loss in revenue still means a bigger deficit.

should be from (not for) the cite you cited

Correcting errors is hopeless! I made a new one while correcting the previous one.

We've done the "supply side thing" for over 30 years and the results are in. Reading David Stockman's analysis on his trickle down economics experiment is a good place to start.

Many of us have, or have had buisinesses at one time or another. Does anyone wake up with extra money in the account and say "I think I'll go hire someone and burn off this excess cash!" Perhaps I'm the exception, but I never have. There have been times when I've faced excess demand and have decided to bring on extra people.

If you toss more tax cut money at me, I'll thank you and stick it in my pocket. If I have more customers with money in their pockets, only then will I consider hiring. Supply side economics needs to be balanced with a healthy dose of Demand side economics to be a healthy system.

@GTC - I agree with the premise of the Laffer curve, but as Brian H alludes, the actual curve doesn't look like that. It is almost certainly skewed rather than symmetrical, and almost certainly not a hyperbolic curve.

But - I agree with the premise nonetheless.

Yes to Obama. Also blue Tesla.In Red state Florida.

We have a Sig Red but are voting for Obama because we remember a full 12 years back. Obama is not the problem. Look beyond the past 4 years before you vote.

@tesla.mrspaghet

You said:
"And contrary to what you may believe from media reports, everyone (not just the rich) gets health care in the US who needs it. And it's pretty good."

Apparently it must differ from state to state because I have found this to not be true. This could be why there are red states and blue states and so many different perspectives on issues like this.

Definitely purple...

Jbunn, please tell me who these supply siders were. Now we know that Reagan was, but Bush ( the daddy) called that voodoo economics! Now Bush ( the daddy) raised taxes as soon as he was elected and governed like a democrat, he even went to war for no reason, except to show he was macho . Pretty much like Obama and his surge...

Now Clinton was super, but then you have W , no supply sider there .

Read my lips... no NEW taxes.

Call me gray, when it comes to voting, I'm colorblind.

"I met those of our society who had votes in the ensuing election, and advised them:

1) To vote, without fee or reward, for the person they judged most worthy.

2) To speak no evil of the person they voted against.

3) To take care their spirits were not sharpened against those that voted on the other side?"

      -- John Wesley.

I am looking forward to getting my red Signature Series soon. I am a Republican that believes in lower taxes and a smaller government. I do believe that solar and electric cars are the way to go and that tax credits are helpful. I am a Republican environmentalist, a true conservative. Anyway, I love what Tesla is doing and can't wait to get my car. Should have it in a week or two.

Mark E and jinglehyme, you are my heroes! This forum question was actually posted by Tesla, so all who will be voting for Romney (oh did I mention that you either have short-term memory, like liars, stand in line with oil companies, or just want to take every single dollar not paid in taxes to the grave instead of trying to contribute to the society as a whole?) will get your reservations transferred to Cadillac Escalade EV that, you guessed it right, somehow runs on gas and is made by GM and Exxon Mobil. People do not forget EV-1 fate.

Obama is far away from being perfect, but to vote for Republicaaaaans and what they stand for (pretty much against everything that is reasonable - healthcare, education, environmental policies) should be a shame for a Tesla owner.

And, while this has perhaps little to do with Tesla, folks in CA please support Proposition 37 for mandatory labeling of GMOs.

Proud Model S reservation holder

My ideal party: Business acumen of republicans, social philosophy of democrats. Until that party is created I will vote blue.

Mel,

The guys around the dinner table with Dr Laffer the night he did the back of the napkin sketch were Gerald Ford, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney. Cheney as you recall said "Ronald Reagan proved defecits don't matter". Rumsfeld famously said before the Iraq war when asked how long will it last said "Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that". Those were the midwifes at it's birth. David Stockman was a famous champeon of Suppy Side economics, and is now outspokenly critical of it. Bush I did indeed call it "Voodoo Economics" and he was correct. If you recall, he said that when he was running AGAINST Ronald Reagan in the primary in 1980.

Also recall that the Reagan tax cuts of 1981 blew a much larger hole in the defecit than the supply siders expected. Reagan was forced starting the following year to raise taxes and he raised them a total of 11 times over the next 7 years, closing about half his origional cuts, but leaving us with a tripled debt and a permanent structural defecit. Since Reagan, we've had massive defecits except under Clinton, and when Bush II came in he went back to tax cutting, and the defecit exploded again. Bush was very much a supply sider.

Laffer's work is misrepresented as "if you cut taxes, you will raise tax revenue because more economic activity will occur and the taxes collected at the lower rate from more people will be larger". Laffer never argued that. It's a misuse of his theory.

Regarding Obama, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were going on for years before Obama became president. 8 years for Afghanistan and 6 for Iraq. We're out of Iraq, and we're trying to get out of Afghanistan, but it's harder work to end a fight than it is to start one.


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