Just tweeted out by Elon...
The oil industry has a lot to lose if electric cars become popular, so now we have these republicans making idiot comments in an attempt to discredit EVs for their backers. A real fiscal conservative would support a carbon tax, but the coal and gas industry are blocking it. EV's can change the world. No more supporting of corrupt governments in the Middle East and no more hatred of the arabs toward the USA. And oh yeah, EVs are going to save the environment. Thank you to everyone at Tesla for your hard work. Keep kicking butt and be proud you have a very important job. Godspeed
The one thing I really can't stand is ignorance. She is the epitomy of it. Oh...and stupidity.
She exists because WE let her. Our government reflects us. I do not like it but admitting it is would be the first step to change.
Good idea. Take it somewhere else.
The government took risks on EV funding, as well as other green companies, when the private sector would not. Many of these companies failed (not without trying their best), which may make the government look stupid for funding these initiatives.
But Tesla most likely would never have built a car such as the Model S in such a fast timeline, if at all, without the assistance of the government. We, as Tesla supporters, should recognize this fact. And in the long run, there will be hundreds of thousands of EVs in the near future on the road because of the risks that the government took.
You have to kiss a few frogs to get a prince charming.
p.s....Palin is a moron. A hot MILF moron perhaps, but a moron.
Actually, WE the people did not "let" her. She couldn't even be elected dog catcher in Alaska now. She got elected Governer, quit half way through, (amid nothing but hypocrisy, incompetence and corruption), and has never been elected again to anything. Sarah Palin is the "brain-child" of the Tea Party (Koch Bros) and Fox News, especially Roger Ailes (who also has now fired her!), ultimately enabled by that slipperiest old snake, John McCain, who seemed to have gained some kind of perverse adolescent satisfaction in naming her as his VP candidate. WE, the people rejected her.
Yet she remains a useful tool as an rabble rouser/agitator for Big Oil, which is why she still shows up to spout this kind of idiocy, and gets paid for it.
Granted, there were WAY too many of us who voted for her, and who have supported her manifest ignorance and made her rich. Seems to me she was created to be a kind of "champion" of ignorance. Fearlessly, courageously, ignorant! Her celebrity is about letting people feel good about being ignorant and bigoted, because she has been so "successful;" it justifies them in their resentment against those "elites" who have education and sensibility, and are not therefore "real Americans." Good riddance! If not for Fox and their "conservative" backers (actually completely radical) Sara Palin would not "exist" in this way. Sarah is truly a "plastic person," made of pure "artifice." Caribou Barbie is quite apt. But personally, I have no idea why anyone finds her "hot," but then, I don't find Barbie dolls "hot."
Why shouldn't Americans and conservatives feel proud of Tesla Motors? American ingenuity and innovation at its finest! Made in America! Helping to free us from dependence on foreign oil. And as far as the Government loans, I won't hear this absolute hypocrisy from anyone who is unwilling to advocate just as fiercely against no-bid contracts, and tax payer subsidies for Halliburton, XE, Exon Mobile, BP or even Big Insurance and Big Pharma, that's where the greatest and most destructive level of "crony capitalism" is taking place, and its bi-partisan!
@risingsun, "A real fiscal conservative would support a carbon tax". No they wouldn't. Fiscal conservatives believe the federal government is spending too much money. Raising revenues through increased or new taxes would only make the situation worse since the politicians would now have more money to spend on unproductive activities. Fiscal conservatives believe that government spending drains the private economy of money which overall reduces economic health since the private sector is more economically productive than government spending.
@Hogfighter. Yes, I understand that the government has been playing Venture Capitalist through their DOE loan program (a program started under Bush, BTW). Nonetheless, there is a big difference when governments dole out money to industries versus private VCs. First, governments manage to never actually make money from these "investments", so they really are nothing more than corporate welfare. In the private world, a VC that didn't make a return, and actually lost some of the capital wouldn't be in business. In the government world, the only recourse by unwilling taxpayers is to vote the people who made the bad investments out of office. Hence the animosity of some people against the program.
Second, when governments dole out money, it is really hard not to see political quid pro quos, paybacks and crony capitalism at work. GM's unions got a nice bailout. Well connected Wall street banks got propped up. And politically connected alternative energy companies got DOE loans. The same thing might occur in the private VC world, but not unless it actually made financial sense.
In the specific case of Tesla you could make a very good point that the DOE loan AND tax rebates are money worth spending since it is nurturing an industry that will likely result in making the US substantially more energy efficient. But you could only come to that conclusion if you understood Tesla, and electric motor efficiencies, etc.
So, yes, Palin, needs to get a clue and understand the differences between Tesla and Solyndra. But at least I understand her animosity towards the DOE loan and tax rebates. Instead of hurling insults to the ignorant, it is often better to try to educate. They might even end up listening.
If you tune out the talking heads they can't piss you off, whatever they say.
Instead of hurling insults to the ignorant, it is often better to try to educate. They might even end up listening.
You're more optimistic than I am. In my experience such efforts are doomed to failure. I prefer to spend my time on things with a higher likelihood of success (which is close to what Elon said in a speech at Oxford, incidentally).
Read her post...
"Palin was commenting on Fisker Automotive in a Facebook post"
Actually all VC's go into deals knowing that a certain percentage well under 50% will never succeed. Based on the governments track record, if 2 companies failed (Solyndra and Fisker) but one was a success (Tesla Motors), then they are still wildly successful! The success of the few make up for the failures of the others. BUT, government isn't in it for the money like a VC so, there you go.
I'm worried about big oil and the lobbies trying to take down Tesla. They have so much to lose if EV's make it in the next 15 years. There is no reason why any of these other companies don't have a product like Tesla. They have been ignoring it and being supported by oil. There is a reason why my previous M3 had castrol written under the hood and why my previous 911 had mobil under the hood.
GM killed the EV back in the 90's and that car was leagues ahead of its time.
Catch up time now...unless big oil has anything to say about it.
Off topic, but still related to Palin and the Bush parties. We have made them rich.
My news for the daily is The Colbert Report and the Daily Show. You can't find those vid and sound clips on any "news" network.
It's too bad most people can't think for themselves. In my opinion most Tesla owners like to think outside the box and see the bigger picture, which is why it's fun discussing things such as these with the forums.
@BYT, unfortunately it isn't working like that. A private VC makes sure that they make a lot of money on the 1 out of 10 companies that makes it big. DOE was actually positioned that way with Tesla. They had a lot of in the money warrants that would become theirs if Tesla didn't pay back the loan within 5 years. But one month ago, Tesla and DOE renegotiated the loan and took away all those government owned warrants. Now if Tesla is successful and pays back the loan, the government will get a market interest rate on their loan. Nice, but it won't come close to making back the money lost on Solyndra, Fisker, and the others (there was another solar panel company if I remember correctly).
Incidentally, that warrant renegotiation is THE reason why Tesla will post a GAAP profit this quarter. They get to recapture the artificial accounting loss that those warrants "cost" them when they accepted the loan. The majority of stock "analysts" are missing this.
I believe Sarah meant to say Mitt Romney was the loser, then she would have been correct on multiple levels.
+1 EMDoc. If Tesla gets to Gen3, then its a huge problem for big oil IMO. Thats why certain pundits are attacking Tesla, there is so much at stake for so many. Typically big oil can just buy and bury the tech, but not in this case as Tesla's mission is broader than just making $$ selling cars and now there is someone (Elon) who has put his personal fortune at stake to make this happen. Gen3 is the real disruption. Hope we get there, it gets more likely with each milestone.
+1 x 4
As Bastiat explained long ago, bureaucrats would have to be almost numberless and prescient to achieve what direct market negotiations achieve routinely. And Smith's Invisible Hand ensures you will pay the real price, ultimately, regardless of government fiat. Financial chickens always come home to roost, because there is nowhere else to land.
Now it's Bill O'Reilly. Also Lou Dobbs.
We would all love to leave the political alone. But these people are making this less and less possible. Some of use have gotten negative reactions on the street already, and if the Fox News crowd keep bashing away on the "electric cars as socialist boondoggle" theme, it's only going to get worse.
Like it or not, buying an electric car is a political act. We'd better start acting like it. We have to counter this sludge by talking about the good stuff Tesla represents: entrepreneurship, innovation, jobs, jobs, jobs, reducing dependence on foreign oil.
We didn't choose this fight. But we will take it to them.
We are ambassadors for Tesla, and the EV revolution. We must be ready to discuss this subject knowledgably, because people out there are so misinformed.
Elon will get the last laugh when Bill O'Reilly is cooling around town in his Model S. Same with Palin.
This is the same woman who, when told 2 Brazillians had drowned in a tsunami, asked, "Tell me, exactly how many is a Brazillion?" Bill O'Reilley is next person with a mike to jump on this "loser"
I don't know if that raw story article is correct. O'Reilly was talking about cumulative net losses, which based on the latest balance sheet sounds about right. Raw story used a figure of $90m loss which was only for the latest quarter.
It is not fair to compare the DOE Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing loan program to a venture capitalist. A VC has the goal of making money by investing.
The DOE on the other hand has the goal of advancing automotive technology. In fact, the program was established with the expectation that it would lose money. (Congress put aside 10 billion to fund the programs losses but now it looks like the program will only lose 3 billiion)
Obviously you can argue that the government shouldn't be in the business of funding new important technologies.
Humorously, Sarah Palin (at one time) would disagree:
My uncle is a retired oil company executive, and full time long term fox viewer. I hardly ever get to see him anymore, because I live on the left coast, and hes in the heartland. He came to visit my folks, and when he hear I had a tesla, he snorted and said it was a "fraud", and he didnt even need to see it.
Well see it he did. Got the tour. Then got the keys, and we went driving.
As elon said at the unveiling at the factory, now youve seen the unicorn. He got to ride it. He'll allways be an oilman, but the car impressed him and he looked like a man that had just glimpesed an unexpected future
@PaceyWhitter - I agree with you, I think that's what I was trying to convey in my VC post. People try to defend the DOE loan program as if it were "just like a VC". Well, it isn't, mostly because it loses money, and indeed, is designed to lose money. The whole point of the program is to give a leg up to companies that might be able to help the US have a more energy efficient economy.
Opponents of the program see it as corporate welfare, giving money to political backers, etc.
You have to realize that fiscal conservatives see the huge budgets deficits and ginormous federal debt (which will only be paid down through inflation), and freak out about ANY kind of government spending.
I personally can see how the DOE loan program will probably end up being a net positive for the economy, or at the very least, a worthwhile risk to attain efficiency. I must say, though, that my own thinking has evolved a bit since seeing and buying and using the Tesla. Just like jbunn's uncle.
David Stockman now taking the fight to Tesla in a column. Says it's "swirling the drain". Looks like the right wing has it's latest talking point distributed amongst the blowhards.
Its really wierd how Tesla gets caught up in these dumb political arguments. I truly believe that Tesla would be celebrated by the right (and ignored and/or villified by the left) if it made ICE's (even if it recieved government assistance).
And in truth, the politicians attacking (or supporting) Tesla right now don't really care one way or another about it, they merely are trying to use it against their political opponents.
Palin's comments do seem oddly timed. When Romney made his anti-Tesla comments Tesla was on musch shakier financial grounds, so the comments made more sense. Now Tesla's future looks much rosier, so why now?
One pal asked me about Palin's bricking comment, "is it true that your car would brick if you forget to plug it in?" My response, no, the car has protections that prevent complete battery drainage and you would have to forget to plug it in for a long, long time before that happens. Then I asked him, what happens if you forget to put oil in your car? You got it, the engine bricks (ceases). Whose fault is that? The manufacturer or you?
He then said, well - I don't have to worry about my engine ceasing after driving 200 miles and can't find a gas station. I responded, if you had no oil in your car and drove 10 miles your engine would brick. But that really isn't the point is it?
Point? Fear of the unknown. Some people embrace the unknown with gusto and others are terrified, find every excuse, and demagogue what they don't understand or is not familiar to them. Its the difference between progress and stagnation. The entrepreneurial spirt - America used to be good at that. Now the only thing that we are good at is vilification and tearing each other down because of political ideology or social crap.
I really wish TM would start advertising. Too many people have a misconception, based on inaccurate reporting. The multiple COY Awards, TM is missing a golden opportunity to maximize their position. I think production is up to speed enough to handle the next tidal wave of orders, too.
When I see ADs for Audi or Mecedes, I dream of seeing a Model S on my HDTV, too. It's time.
TM could start there TV AD with a snippet of Romney and Palin calling them losers. Then show the Model S with the camera circling the car, finishing with the camera moving past the car and showing their trophy case of awards. If you call that losing, then sign up up.
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