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Tesla 2013 Supercharger Progress - US/Canada

23 currently. Tesla planning 100 by the end of the year. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101044273/ 77 to go!!

Edit October 2: 24 currently, 76 to go!
Edit October 7: 25 currently, 75 to go!
Edit October 17: 26 currently, 74 to go!
Edit October 22: 28 currently, 72 to go!
Edit October 23: 30 currently, 70 to go!
Edit October 25: 31 currently, 69 to go!
Edit November 10: 32 currently, 68 to go!
Edit November 16: 34 currently, 66 to go!

That CNBC map does not match the winter 2013 Tesla supercharger map.

That is drastically less SC than promised in the chart on the website? it states by winter 2013> all metropolitan cities> clearly more then 100. I have read from others, that it woule be nice for Tesla to come out with a statement with athe reasons they are slow to build out the NE, and other areas. I have a feeling it has alot to do with the rollout in Europe...

There really is a difference between "GOAL" and "promised"!

you might want to check out the other thread on SC roll-out!

I know we are all wishing they would be out there faster, for sure!

I'm actually amazed that there are as many SC's in full operation as we have today.

Remember, the FIRST SIGNATURE MODEL Ss were delivered just one year ago!!! I'm VIN 465/Sig 692 and mine was delivered 11/2/2013!!! Hasn't even been a year yet!

cheers

My guess is the "slowness" in the NE has more to with local intransigence rather then the EU buildout.

O

The terminology they seem to use is not "goal" or "promise", but "plan".

I'm hoping they don't come up short on their "fall" plan, like they did on their summer plan. Hopefully they have made the necessary adjustments so they will be successful this time.

Im pretty sure that there trying to save money by decreasing the spending output in order to continue rising on the stock market. They will start them faster after the quarter closes........ just my opinion not facts.

From a financial prospective I don't think that there is a lot of difference between the asset "cash" and the asset "SC". In fact, having a lot of cash actually may indicate that they are not able to deploy it efficiently. IMO TM is doing just fine at building out their SC system.

Curious how much their electric bill is from the superchargers. Do they ever break that out in their quarterly numbers?

And no, the energy doesn't come from solar at the three superchargers that I visited (Gilroy, Atascadero, Buellton).

The delayed build out is entirely local red tape/permitting issues. Nothing more. Definitely has nothing to do with EU SC build out.

@sunnyms85 - Save money by decreasing spending output to rise stock price? That's just laughable. The more SC's (both Superchargers and Service Centers) they build the more cars they'll sell, the higher the stock price will go.

@erici - Don't forget all the excess solar power produced by all the residential roof top systems installed by Solar City.

@erici - their cost of electricity for the SCs is about $150,000 so far. Hard to translate that to quarters, but my guess would be half of that came in the third quarter based on number of cars and SCs.

Not sure how the accounting around SC electricity works. They have some arrangement with Solar City, and I'm not sure who carries the liability for future electricity in their financials.

@goneskiian The delayed build out is entirely local red tape/permitting issues. Nothing more.

In the past when Tesla has had difficulty from governmental entities they have made this public. If there is a community that is balking at issuing permits the Tesla community could help put pressure on the local authorities.

Also, you can't have a permit issue until you apply for one and once you apply it's a matter of public record and we'd know about it.

So, what are you basing your very strong assertion on?

Construction permits should be good for a couple of years at least once you have them in hand.

Are they now in the permitting process for their 2014 and 2015 supercharger projects? That would be the solution to future permitting delays -- apply early.

It would be a shame if this time next year we hear the same things about permitting delays.

As good as the SC's are compared to what else is out there they can not be the end goal. A 1 hour full charge?

This is good for the committed but the cast majority will find even this too slow, maybe does Tesla have something even faster in the works? Just guessing, maybe hoping?

@goneskiian "Don't forget all the excess solar power produced by all the residential roof top systems installed by Solar City."

I don't really understand what you meant by that comment.

Any excess residential rooftop solar electricity winds up being absorbed by somebody's air conditioner down the street. Perhaps the house next door.

That's where the electricity goes in a world without Tesla superchargers.

Then a few superchargers are added to the region, putting pressure on the grid. I presume that means natural gas burning generators pick up that excess here in California. Or in Utah, it would be coal burning.

We're not at the point yet where excess rooftop residential solar leads to 100% idle capacity at the electric generating plants.

@Volleyguy - Tesla does plan faster supercharging, and actually already has it on their website - 200 miles in a half hour.

That is very reasonable for me. Most of the "time" my car is driven and charged locally. Most of the "miles" would involve trips using one supercharger "fill up", and I have no problem stopping for a half hour to stretch the legs, pee, and get a bite to eat while getting 150 to 200 miles of range added.

You are correct, it is not for eveyone. Neither is a $90,000 car. I can certainly see a scenario where there is a combination of CNG fleets, electric, hybrid, and ICE vehicles for the next 50 years, as we have now. The ratio will simply change as the economics and logistics (like charge time, supercharger locations) change.

Is it just me or do you see SC's as really not good enough for mass market in the U.S.?

In Norway at $10 a gallon most people will not mind the wait. In the U.S. at less than $4? I am not sure?

Is even faster needed? (for the U.S. market)

In reality 10 years down the road people talk about when it used to take 20 minutes for a half charge and how slow it was. So SC's are today's high tech and tomorrow's obsolete tech. So how many do you build?

1. I do not see the current technology (battery, charging) as good enough for the mass market. But simply on the MS and MX I think it is viable.

2. Gasoline will cost $10/gal in the US - most agree on that. The question is when ranging from now (when you add in the cost of the wars in the middle east) to some time in the future.

3. Is faster needed? Sure!! And it will come. The current SCs are capable of 120kw, which would be a full charge in less than an hour. I think someone posted they could add another 30kW rectifier to the exsiting cabinets.

4. Of course!! The current SCs will be obsolete in 10 years. Guess what - so will your home computer. But the power feed to the SC cabinet will still be fine, and the rest can simply be ripped out and replaced if not upgradeable.

Do you know anyone that still has their Apple IIe and 300bps modem waiting for a new computer that won't become obsolete?

Volleyguy,
That's a question I've wondered about too. How much does it spend to upgrade an existing supercharger installation from 90 kWh to 120 kWh.

On the website their charge times are for 120 kWh, but in reality when you drive out to one of their newest installations (Buellton) it is only 90 kWh.

Just strip out the "h" everywhere I wrote "kWh". Creature of habit.

Tes-s
I agree people do not own their old computer but if someone is putting in fuel tanks for gas stations they are not thinking of ripping them out in a couple of years for faster pumps and tanks or they likely would not do it! So clearly a SC station is not a gas station as it will be obsolete and and investment except land written off.

So it is tough put out 200 SC's in North America and write them off in a short time. Any idea what the cost of that will be?

From Tesla's point of view I bet they are ok with the owners having a much better option in a new car but the SC's are their write off...

Erici

So the Tesla is not even doing their most advanced at the newest stations?

In my hometown the city just opened a charging station at 90 amps with a Tesla roadster being here. I live very close to the Toyota factory that builds the Rav4 EV with the Tesla parts. A few roadsters float around here for test purposes.

How much faster is Tesla's 90 amp compared to Sun Country's charging station? They even advertise with a Model S and they opened the station here with a Roadster.

https://suncountryhighway.ca/

I can't comment on their "newest" stations, but the Atascadero and Buellton chargers were constructed sometime in June or July and are at 90 kW, not 120 kW. Perhaps they were on the threshold of the new technology at that time?

I thought all the new chargers were 120kW, and they could upgrade the older ones. I think all the ones in the Northeast are 120kW.

200 SCs is $30M including installation.

And just because something better comes along, does not mean they no longer work or have value. You mentioned a 90amp charger - clearly obsolete, right?

I can see "high traffic" areas, like highway rest stops, getting replacements. The "old" SCs could be redeployed to locations where a "slow" charge makes sense - supermarket, retail outlets, cell phone waiting lot at the airport, and other places where people may be parked for 30 minutes to an hour.

Another scenario would be to simply add faster chargers, even in the same locations. As they sell more cars, they will need more charging capacity and will have to expand existing locations. Why not leave the old chargers, and add new faster ones?

This is not a new problem. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Old_Gas_Pump.jpg

All new SC are 120 kW, but currently operate at 90 kW. The cars need a software upgrade ( prob. V 5.0 )... and as we know the V 5.0 roll out is delayed because of bugs.

Sun Country 90 A chargers : 240 V * 90 A = 21.6 kW or 208 V * 90 A = 18.7 kW.

Kliest could you help me on this?

Would you rather have the as I understand twin charger on a Tesla charging everywhere basically or spend money on the SC option for some chargers that we just do not have?

What is more practical?

I was at the Rockford, IL SC last night. I calculated the charge rate (initial) at 110KW.

If I had the choice of doing my trips on 2x$80 tanks of gas vs. 4x30 minute SC charges, I'd go with the free every time.

The 120kW SCs put out 86kW continuously. Not sure how long they can sustain 120kW - maybe long enough to provide a full charge, or perhaps it is dependent on temperature or input line voltage?

Each 120kW is shared between two stalls.

The highest kW I have seen my car report charging is 244amps at 387v which would be 94kW.

@Volleyguy - I got 'em all. Twin chargers and supercharging. As well as 85kWh battery.

There is a 70amp charger I plan to use, as well as superchargers, which drove my decision. And since I have twin chargers, I also put in HPWC at my house simply for convenience.

Volleyguy - I have both. Reason : most future proof.

Twin chargers:
- if you think venturing out, then twin chargers are useful if you find a 80A charger. I plan to drive the sun country highway so that was a must for me.
- if your house supports extra 100A and you need a quicker charge at home ( my main panel is 100A, so not an option for me )
Super Chargers :
- I live half way between Gilroy and Fremont - both are too close to be of any practical use except SC testing. I need SC on 101 north of SF and on 99 - none of these are on the 2015 map.

I have a long term view on the SC and 90A J1772 - in 5 to 10 years the situation will be much different. In the mean time we installed a 14-50 at my wife's parents house and that extends my range another 100 miles North... not the most convenient, but they are happy to see us anyway and we take a break.

Now Tes-s if you were buying just a 60 if you could would you rather twin charging as 40 amp is really slow or SC enabled which is fast but there are no or just a few stations. Which way would you go then?

I know a 85 does help a lot with longer range plus SC is included if we ever see enough of them to matter.

I am trying to justify this purchase with some sensibility I have never bought a $100k car before in fact even the $50-70k cars have been used.


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