Forums

Join The Community
RegisterLogin

200 mile General Motors EV

There are rumblings about a new EV from GM having a battery only range of 200 miles, to be released in 2016. It would include a gas generator, but would be able to go 200 miles on the battery and cost $30K. This sounds a little far fetched to me considering that the Leaf and the i3 are around 75 miles range and cost a lot more.

In Who Killed the Electric Car GM had plans of adding nickle batteries to the EV-1 to give it a 130 mile range. They had also talked at the time of adding lithium to the 2003 versions to replace the bulky lead acid batteries that gave it a 70 mile range.

A regular lead acid battery weights 65 pounds a Lithium battery with the same amount of power will only weigh 16 pounds. Also a lithium battery needs only 45% of the space that a lead acid needs.

If GM would have popped out the lead acid batteries in the EV-1 with lithium they would have had a 200 mile range car back then. But instead they scrapped the EV-1 and didn't build anything else.

I think it's not a case if it's possible. I think GM didn't really care for the last few years. The only reason why they care is due to Tesla existing.

Latest article I read was GM was betting on a new battery chemistry that would offer 200 mile range by 2018. That new chemistry fell through, so they are even farther behind Tesla now. Best guess is 175 mile pack by 2020, GM getting SPANKED.

I'll believe when I see it. I remember how Volt was over hyped and pretty much anything that GM does. They can't produce an ICE car without massive recalls any more.

What to me helped kill the Volt was that it was a few thousands over priced and that was soon used angst it.

apsley "It would include a gas generator," Is that a option or built in??

Since you made same error twice (same error in different topic):

angst = "a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one about the human condition or the state of the world in general."

against is the word you are looking for.

Timo I have "angst" now wondering if you or Brian will notice I used a option when I should have used an option LOL

hybrid vs range extender

maybe not quite in the focus of this topic: there are a lot of "hybrid cars" (electric+gas gears), electric+gas-generator (Opel Ampera) and "full electric" (Tesla the only one to my knowledge (except some very small city cars). Hybrids as well as generators usually have a very small "electric" range.

Range has always been a concern in these forums. So I have the following questions: what about a Tesla with a "(natural?) gas spare can".

We are currently discussing a 40kWh G3. What about a 30kWh battery with a generator for on-board recharching? This solution would be lighter than the 40kWh, would still have 300miles "electric range" and an additional 100km with generator.

The main/principle difference to hybrid approaches would be the fact that this is still a "rather full-electric" vehicle. The electric range still is twice as much as today's generator solution in electric mode based on a battery with twice the capacity. the "spare can" is just a spare can but would extend the range from 300km to 400km. This could solve the "range problem" that has been discussed several times.

GTF wrote:
"Range has always been a concern in these forums."

No, not really after arrival of MS and real world experiences using it (from what I have read). For some posters its the unsolvable issue, but those are limited in numbers.

And no, pure BEV is way to go for Tesla.

@bigd, I usually don't correct peoples grammar error (I do those enough myself), but when someone does same error multiple times it is indication that it isn't just typo or speed writing. In that case correction is in order, the person making the mistake learns the correct word.
-----
Model S is not for everyone. Model 3 also is not for everyone. There isn't a car in the world that is for everyone. If range is an issue to you and you can't tolerate SC charging times, don't buy Tesla. It's that simple. Majority of people don't see the problem with the range or with charging times, so it really is no issue.

Tesla will never do hybrid. Tesla cars are and will be no-compromise BEV:s (at least until there is better alternative to batteries which you can charge at home).

@Timo +++1

Gtf.... no. Just supercharge.

Range and charging issues are not the predominate concern on this forum, me being one of the exceptions, but in the general populace there is that angst. If you come upon articles and replies and what not about electrical driving, it is ALL about range anxiety and charging issues.

Supercharger speed is not really the biggest concern. Not really fast enough, but also not intolerable speed-wise. It is the reliance on trickle chargers at destinations and along non-supported routes that scare people. Being tethered up for hours and hours...not tolerable to most people and really only suitable at hotels, etc where people are spending the night.

Again, the real enthusiasts are ok with this and Tesla can sell as man cars as the can make anyway. It is the future of mass adoption and affordable and convenient electrical driving that real is the important issue and it would be good to know the plan to support that.

Carlgo "Being tethered up for hours and hours...not tolerable to most people and really only suitable at hotels" So you are saying it is suitable to be tethered at a hotel for hours??

bigd: "Being tethered up for hours and hours...not tolerable to most people and really only suitable at hotels" So you are saying it is suitable to be tethered at a hotel for hours??

Yep, what else are you gonna do with your car whilst you sleep? Do you want it to wander around alone looking for a mate? A few places I've stayed at near motorways recently have EV charging points. Checked them out - some are free, some you pay if not a guest at the hotel (which seems fair enough).

Or are you referring to my kinky bondage sessions with ladies of ill repute? I know not everyone approves, but I do close the curtains.

"but I do close the curtains." You sir, are going above and beyond the call of duty.

Supercharger speed is not really the biggest concern. Not really fast enough, but also not intolerable speed-wise. It is the reliance on trickle chargers at destinations and along non-supported routes that scare people.

Don't count GM out just yet. Sure their leadership are morons, they've made poor decisions for the past 30 years, and the bureaucracy and corporate culture needs work. But they have the talent and the capital to produce a mean EV. They aren't exactly unfamiliar with all-electric powertrains...they just need a kick in their ass to go all 18650.

bigd;
Timo and I opted not to exercise the option to hammer you as you deserved, in order to maximize your angst. It's cruel and devious, we are.

Why offer any fuel-based range extender ? If that fuel is worth using, why not just power the car from it, and forgo the huge battery ?

The cost to research, and manufacture of those sort of range extending features is better spent simply making better batteries, that can take a quicker charge.

Haeze: Great point. I'm sure that is the ultimate goal of those pushing for aluminum based 'range extenders' today. They want it to be the primary source of power in the future.

GM is of the mind-set of "We build things that burn oil". They can't get away from it. They ale build truly horrible cars by design. Building a high quality EV requires a different way of thinking and not the "what we can get away with" which has driven the company since the 50's.

GM invented "Value Engineering". It's a concept where the designers design a car and then "Value Engineering" strips out every possible penny of cost. They put in cheap door locks, cheap ignition switches (ahem), replace metal with plastic, replace 10 gauge wire with 18 gauge. That's why turning on the radio will cause the headlights to dim. In the 70's and 80's it was common for cars coming off the assembly line to have to be pushed off because they would not start.

That's the mentality of GM. It's about wrapping bad cars in the flag and calling customers "un-American" if they want something better. There is a no way that a company that thinks this way can build anything in the EV range which will be any good. The Volt is a disaster of a car, so they put it in a Cadillac skin and doubled the price. I hear they have sold tens of these. They know their customers will buy a gimmick rather than a good car.

Look at this forum. With all of the Model S cars sold, there are a few vocal complaints here and there but look at a Volt forum. There are pages of line items with pages under each of those. GM is dedicated to building crap which their market will accept and keep going back. They have no incentive to build a good car.

Have you noticed?

Range and charging are of concern to NON-owners.

Range and charging are of NON-concern for owners.

@Tiebreaker | JULY 23, 2014:

"Have you noticed?"

"Range and charging are of concern to NON-owners."

I beg to differ. I am quite concerned about both range and charging. To me, these aren't optional for a car I expect to rely on as my primary car.

It's technically true that I don't yet own an MS: I'm merely in the production queue.

I do own a modest amount of TSLA stock. If I were wealthy, I'd own more.

Ron :)

P.S. Sweeping generalizations are almost always at least partially false.

+100 Tiebreaker!!!!

Great insight.

@Grinnin'

You can complain as soon as you get the car! ;-)

UncleSamO "You can complain as soon as you get the car!"
complaining--express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event.

Grinnin'"I am quite concerned about both range and charging."
concerned--worried, troubled, or anxious.

UncleSamO makes a living out of ignorance

@bigd | JULY 23, 2014:

Grinnin'"I am quite concerned about both range and charging."
concerned--worried, troubled, or anxious.

As I drive my Prius, I never need to plan ahead for more than the next 50-100 miles. I can safely assume that when my gas gauge gets down to two squares (about 1/5 of a tank), I'll just stop at the next convenient place to buy more gas.

With my MS such planning-free behavior is risky. When I plan my trip, I need to plan where I recharge. Since some of my recharging may be off the SC grid, my planning needs to include considering where I stay overnight. It appears to me that I'll rarely find trickle chargers, except those at or very near hotels, that meet my needs on multi-day road trips.

Considerations of range, charging availability and charging time complicate my overall trip planning. Others on this forum have reported that they have experienced unexpected delays with charging while on road trips. So I presume that it would be prudent for me to plan my road trips a bit more carefully than for road trips driving ICE cars.

What puzzles me is that I suspect that you already knew all of that. And yet you seem to be trying to intimidate me to prevent me from expressing my thoughts about these things on this forum. My question is: Why?

Ron :)

@johncrab: They ale build truly horrible cars by design.

No, they don't. Some of their current lineup, such as the new Corvette and Cadillac CTS, are brilliant cars that have won universal acclaim.

The Volt is a disaster of a car...

I suppose it depends on your definition of "disaster". Is "the Volt is outselling the Model S so far in 2014" a "disaster"? Because it is.

It's about wrapping bad cars in the flag and calling customers "un-American" if they want something better.

Can you provide any citation where anyone with GM has ever suggested that buying a foreign car is "un-American"?

They have no incentive to build a good car.

Sure they do: the dozens of other car companies people can buy from if they don't like GM offerings.

I don't own any GM cars and don't particularly think they need defending, but some of this over-the-top slavering hatred perplexes me. Did you have a GM lemon at some point or something?

" it would be prudent for me to plan my road trips a bit more carefully than for road trips driving ICE cars"

It'll be like that for probably 5-10 more years.

I used to plan my ICE trips carefully (since I was usually going 1000-2500 miles); making sure there were timed/spaced gas stations, food, or rest areas ahead. If I wasn't sure about the space between two large cities, I'd gas in/near the large city.

Experience has shown that I didn't need to be so careful, since most of those little towns in between would have truck stops or gas stations.

With technology helping so much nowadays, it's easier to plan those road-trips. But until SuperChargers or Battery-swaps become much more common, more careful planning is still required.


X Deutschland Site Besuchen