I've seen a few posts about the HPWC connector, but since I'll be getting the smaller battery I won't need it. Does anyone have a guess how much it would cost to wire up a 220 connection in my garage?
I just talked to an electrician to request a quote to add a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage.
I have an older home (built 1932) and the service to the home is only 100A per leg (dual leg service gives me 200A of 120V or 100A of 240V or any combination between). He asked me about my large appliances. I told him I have: A/C, Electric dual ovens, Electric clothes dryer, Electric water heater upstairs even though downstairs water heater is gas, a Jacuzzi tub in master bat, and a hot tube in the back yard.
He told me that I need 200Amp service regardless of adding the NEMA 14-50 for the Model S.
So, I'll need to contact my power company (PG&E) and have them string heavier wire to my house, upgrade my main panel, upgrade my subpanel in the detached garage run new 125A conduit from the main panel to the garage (about 100 ft), then I can add the NEMA 14-50.
He said it's not gonna be cheap. I'm hoping it's less than $5K.
I'm having Solar City come out next week to quote this as well. But from this thread, it appears that Solar City is more expensive than a local electrician.
As in the post above, I am also in an older home and just finished talking with my electrician. Fortunately, I don't have as many issues. The new outlet will be in a different bay from the NEMA 14-50 I use for my roadster (which is about 6 feet from my breaker box and cost about $300 three years ago). They are "slimming down" some of the existing breakers to make room for the new breaker. The new outlet will require about 40 feet of conduit and associated wire. Also, since there isn't access to better space, the conduit will run across the ceiling and have to be punched through 2 sheet rock walls.
Total cost $692.
@dahtye: Stock up on candles. I went through this dance a few years ago when we added A/C to our home with a 60A service. They pulled our meter when the upgrade process began, and we didn't get it back until both PG&E and the city agreed the upgrade went as expected. It required a 3-way inspection with my electrician, PG&E, and the city. Either PG&E or the city (I forget which) failed to show up for the first such meeting, so our power outage was extended a few days while a new inspection got set up.
In my case, the power feed to the house is buried, so they had to inspect the trench before we were allowed to back-fill. If your feed is from a pole, then it may be a bit easier for you. Good luck!
The electrician said they can do the work before contacting PG&E (our electricity provider in our area). He said it will take about 3.5 days to do the work. Then I contact PG&E and wait until they can string heavier cable from the pole (no digging, I'm assuming here, but they may need to check on the transformer at the pole to make sure there's enough juice available).
I did get the quote for all the work I described a few posts ago....
I'm having Solar City come out to quote as well.
Part of the issue in my install is they need to put down a new underhouse and underground conduit that will accomodate the new 125A breaker box in the detached garage. So, heavy labor is involved and labor rates in the SF bay area are quite high.
The positive of all this is that they can start the job since they are available - before it starts raining.
Electrician just left. It seems we have three-phase 150amp feed. Unfortunately, from the main shut off in the garage it goes up to the 4th floor where the main panel is. There is a heater in the garage with a 20amp 208v feed, which I intend to tap into. More than 20amps is going to cost me north of $2k to put in a sub panel off the main feed (and I rent). Electrician wasn't very keen on the idea of putting a 14-50 on a 20amp feed, but I don't think Tesla has any other adapters available yet. I assume I can just put in a 14-50 and the Model S will only take what's available, not trip the breaker.
@dahtye - a year ago I had electrical work done, adding circuits in the house and preparing for EVs. We replaced the main panel (which was already 200A but too small), added a 100A subpanel in the garage, and ran ~100ft of #0 wire to the garage. I supplied the subpanel in the garage and did some of the work myself and it came to just under $5k, but that did include about $750 for the extra circuits in the house. So, just going by that I would say the estimate isn't totally crazy.
@MandL - you will have to make sure that you can program the Model S to only draw 16A (unless the breaker for that heater line is rated for continuous duty, you have to derate by 25%) -- it might just assume that if you gave it a 14-50 it can draw 50A. I know you are supposed to be able to do it with the HPWC, but I don't know about the others.
@MandL "Electrician wasn't very keen on the idea of putting a 14-50 on a 20amp feed..."
You can always have your electrician put in a suitable outlet (probably NEMA 6-20), and then make you a 6-20 to 14-50 adapter cable. The connectors and a short length of cable won't cost very much, and since it isn't part of the house wiring, you don't have to show it to the inspector. It would be perfectly safe to use, since the whole line will be limited to 20A (16A continuous), you just have to use it with that current limitation in mind or you'll trip the breaker.
If Tesla doesn't come out with a full range of adapters quickly, or if they are way overpriced, I'll probably make up a full-range of adapters myself so I'm ready for any charging situation.
see if you can get your landlord to buy into/pay for the renos, on the basis it makes the place more rentable (in particular to high-roller EV-lovers, etc.) I was successful in getting substantial appliance upgrade where I live (rent) based on such considerations! (And by subtly hinting I'd relocate to somewhere better equipped otherwise; landlords HATE to lose long-term (5 yrs. in my case) renters; turnover is brutal financially for them.)
I have been assuming the 110v outlet would be fine for me anyway, since my normal daily driving is under 50 miles and there is a SEMAcharge station at work. So upgrading to 208v/20a should be plenty.
There already is a full range of adapters on the market check amazon or walmart. RVs have been around for a very long time. Somewhere in this forum I posted a link to several of the adapters. You can use combinations of adapters to get just about anything you want.
It is also extremely easy to make them yourself with a visit to the hardware store.
From the TM Owners Quick Guide:
The charge current sets automatically to the maximum current available from the attached charging cable, unless it has been previously reduced to a lower level. If needed, you can change the current by touching the up/down arrows. You may want to reduce the current in situations where you’re concerned about overloading a domestic wiring circuit shared by other equipment. When you change the current, Model S remembers. So if you subsequently charge at a different location, you may need to re-adjust. Keep in mind that reducing the current increases charging time."
You should be fine. If for some reason Model S doesn't automatically adjust to the maximum current available on the circuit, you can dial it back manually from the touch screen.
Just had a 14-50 installed (plus and additional outlet to backfeed a generator) all together $699.00.
I should mention that in my original quote of $7500, they had a foot note that said if I want an additional NEMA 14-50 outlet close to my subpanel (on the outside wall, about 4 feet from the subpanel), weather protected, the cost would be an additional $250. So, I take this as the "incremental" cost to add this which includes labor and materials since they are already out doing the other work. If I had asked for just this one outlet, I'd expect the charge to be a bit higher.
The electrician requote only the upgrade to 200Amp panel and added NEMA 14-50 outlet (within 2 feet of the new panel) at $3,900. I think this is still a tad high, so am still pursuing a quote from another installer. But the electrician seemed like they need the work, so I think they are willing to negotiate if it comes down to that.
Hello. I am opting for the NEMA 14-50 outlet. I have 150amp service and plenty of space my panel. I have about a 40ft run through an unfinished basement to an adjacent garage. Since Solar City isn't in my area (Columbus, OH), Mr. Electric came out and quoted me a little over $800 and would be using 8 guage wire with conduit. I decided to call a couple other area electricians. The other two that I contacted haven't come out yet, but each quoted me about $250 over the phone and that is with 6 gauge wire. Should I be worried that they are both quoting that much cheaper than Mr. Electric?
Ask Mr. Electric. "What will my extra $550 buy me?"
A 40ft run totals about $200 in parts (retail) - the biggest cost is wire. $250 sounds either (a) excellent value or (b) lowballing.
mikeadams -- Should I be worried that they are both quoting that much cheaper than Mr. Electric?
Not really. Mr. Electric has a large overhead of trucks, employees, and office staff to pay. The local electricians are generally just individuals and a job like this is just an "extra" to them. If they have their masters license there should be no difference in the quality of work that they do.
Of course, with Mr. Electric, Solar City, etc. you can be 100% sure that everything will be done correctly and that no shortcuts will be taken. However, for something that is simple like installing a 14-50 on a panel that has plenty of room, the only foobars possible are using the wrong size wire (too light) or wiring up to the wrong pins. It's very unlikely that either of these will happen and you can check the wire size during the install because the size is printed on the wires.
If you have to replace the service panel or do other major work, there are more opportunities for failure.
MandL, I would be very concerned about an electrician who would even consider putting a 50 amp outlet on a 20 amp feed. This is most likely against code. Please consider the other options that have been made such as making your own adaptor. The charge cable Tesla uses can only make an assumption about amperage based upon the connector that is used and as such will assume a 40 amp maximum from what it believes to be a NEMA 14-50 connector. As others have stated you can set the Model S to draw a lower value if you want to do that.
Just had my NEMA 14-50 installed today (outside, next to driveway). Cost $650 (was not itemized, but given that my 200A panel is as far away from the driveway as possible, the wire was probably not cheap)!
I was quoted $450 for a NEMA 14-50 outlet that is close to (within about 2 meters) to my electric panel (as long as there are no panel upgrades needed). Seems like this could be done for lower cost, but the eletrician needs to put food on his table.
I have a 46-year-old house with a 46-year-old electrical panel. No room for a NEMA 14-50, must replace the panel. $3000.
OR- I can get the panel replacement included in a $5000 solar installation. Guess who's getting solar?
8 gauge is most likley too light for 50 amp plug. Actualy, it depends on the insulation type, how tightly the wires are packed in the conduit, lenght of run, ect.
Since the NEMA 14-50 is a 50 amp plug, I'd use 6 gauge wire for the two hot and neutral wires, and if you want you can step down to an 8 for the ground.
The car with a single charger will only pull 40 amps, so a 40 or 50 amp breaker will work with the above setup. I happen to have had a spare 40 breaker handy, and orderd a single charger in the car, so that's what I used.
Since the breaker is acting like a fuse, you never want anything downstream from the breaker that's a lower rating than the breaker. For example, a 70 amp breaker on a 50 amp plug. Or on light weight wire like 6 or higher. You want the breaker to be the "weakest" link in the system so it pops before one of the other components can get overloaded.
I've been told that a 50-amp breaker can reliably serve 40-amps. The electrician did not recommend pulling near 50-amps from a 50-amp breaker since the breakers typically are triggered by heat. As the current approaches 50 amps on a 50 amp breaker, there is heat build up until the breaker flips. So, to be safe, he said 40-amps is recommended (or no more than 80% of the breaker rating).
On a slightly different note:
Does it matter which leg of the 240 (2 hot legs) are connected to the hot pins on a NEMA 14-50 receptacle? I understand where neutral and ground need to connect on the receptacle, but is there a standard for the two 120V hot legs?
Nope. The two legs are equivilent, just out of phase. The back of a NEMA 14-50 plug isn't even marked. Just as you noted you have neutral and ground marked. The other two don't matter. Different deal than direct curent, where it does matter.
I have a 400A service to my panel, so I have plenty of power available, and installing a NEMA 14-50 on the other side of the wall from the panel with 10 feet of wiring to the plug, but I'm also having a second meter installed. The total cost estimate is $1860 from the first (of four) electricians I'm getting estimates from.
$900 for material for underground termination and new panel
$960 for 12 hours of labor
He claimed my material costs are higher for the 400A terminal block.
Thanks jbunn. I might end up wiring one up myself from my garage panel since I can easily cut the power to the panel and won't need to worry about getting electrocuted. I already have a 100A disconnect for this panel, so there should be plenty of juice (even though I have a hot tub connected, but rarely used and certainly won't be used at the same time as charging (i.e. charging between 1am and 7am and hot tub use would end well before midnight).
I'm having an electrician install a NEMA 14-50 at the front of the house near the meter and upgrading the panel to 200A, but the garage is detached and a good 100 feet away from the meter.
I envy those who already have 200A service to their home and 400A is even better Schlermie! I had to call our local electric service provider (Pacific Gas & Electric) to come out and upgrade my service. I'm not sure how much this will cost (they mentioned some cost, but some installs are free depending on the scope of the job).
Schlermie, way too much for going through a wall and a 10 foot run. And another meter? What's the point of that? So you can monitor the car usage? You should be able to get this from the car. Way more work than you need for a simple plug.
Dahtye, I'd be surprised if your hottub draws more than 50 amps, so if you have 100 amp service to the garage and you are feeding the car and hot tub, you're probably fine.
jbunn, my power company ordinarily charges a flat rate for power by default, but it's tiered, so you get some very cheap power in the first tier; however, most households quickly blow through the first and second tiers to some very expensive power rates. They offer two plans to save you money if you're charging an EV though:
1. You can have a time-of-use plan where they charge you less during the night, but they also end up charging you more during the day. Since my wife works from home during the day and the kids are home during most of the day, our daytime power use is meaningful.
2. If you have a second meter installed, dedicated to charging the EV, they allow you to use that ultra cheap baseline rate on the second meter.
If I can get that second meter to pay for itself in about 5 years, I'll do it. I'm still getting estimates.
PG&E (in California) has a special Electric Vehicle rate that include household usage. This is called E-9 rate. They also have te E-6 rate if you don't have an electric vehicle. Both are "TOU" or Time of Use rates. I did some calculations comparing these two rates and the E-9 is definitely lower overall - even with my wife at home and my kids at home in the afternoon. I looked at my usage over the last 2 years (on an hourly basis since I have had a Smart Meter installed by PG&E and this info is available for me to see) and my calculations are based on our historical use patterns. So, for me, I'm confident that E-9 is right.
I've contact PG&E and they will switch me to E-9 on my next billing period after I take delivery of my Sig P85.
I too was considering a second meter until I the quote came in from the electrician at $2200 to install that meter (and that doesn't include any charges that PG&E will levy for the additional service). I didn't analyze the cost benefit of having a second meter though - maybe in the long run it would be lower cost, but I just don't know.
I had a 15 Amp breaker going to my detached garage (about 100 ft run) but was spliced in a junction box from which two sets of 14 gauge wires were going to the garage (one set due to a three way light switch). I decided I did not need the three way switch and reused the two runs to install a NEMA 14 50 on a two pole 15 AMP breaker.
The electrician did the job in less than an hour (two people) for $150.
After setting the charge to 12 AMP I'm getting eight mph instead of the three mph I was getting with 110V 12 Amp
That is more than enough for my commute of 45 miles per day.
Seemed like the best value for me given the circumstances.
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