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For the Tesla Gen III, what 100 new features would you like to imagine or see available ?

Teslarians, what futuristic, hitech, game changer, ultra green, uber-cool, alto safety, mass production friendly, cost reducing, profit increasing features should Tesla's next generation, Gen III, vehicle have ? Also include Model C, S & X.

Whether large or small, simple or complex, technical or not, what are your ideas ?

To get started, here are some thoughts:

1) Put see through glass Tesla Shield  
   on hood  made of painted glass. The
   shield and letter T are left clear glass 
   and shows off the frunk by day. At 
   night a Hue light , with millions of 
   color variations can can be turn on 
   inside the frunk to light up the shield 
   and T during night driving. 

http://www.meethue.com/en-US

2) Have detachable Household AC plug  
 battery  packs near base of seats  
 powered by solar panels on roof.

3) Anti crash system stops car from
  running into things. Qualifies for   
  insurance discount?

4) Retractable semi-opaque, tinted sun
 visors controlled by button on
 steering wheel similar to pulling down  
 a window shade electronically. It's 
 more functional because it allows the 
 driver to control visor on driver's 
 window, passenger window, and both 
 sides of the windshield. Could this be the world's best sun visor?

5) Have all wheels turn to 90 degrees,
  great for parallel parking. Have car
  capable of self parking.

6) Create @tesla/talk.car Internet
    extension  for car related services 
    only to compliment .com sites. 

The .car extensions have voice only interface, with limited button pushing similar to a radio, no texting except through voice to text.

7) Shape the red tail lights as close
  as possible to the Tesla T Logo.
  Red led lights across bumper under
  the plate spell out Tesla Motors EV
  and highlight when brakes applied.

8) Equip Gen III with two sliding doors
  or 4 regular doors. To create
  easier access the opening door
  includes 1/3 of the roof. Also press a
  button in the door jamb to slide the
  front seats forward.

   A variation of this, have 1/3 strip of 
   roof retract toward the center of the 
   roof when you open the door.

9 ) NFD Near Field Discounts auction.
  Type in lunch etc. 5 miles distance, 
  2hrs for exa and nearby Merchants 
  continuously update bids against  
  each other on giving you    
  discounts for lunch.

10) KeyPay/CarPal digitized keychain 
      can be used to pay electronically, 
      and receits  are tagged& organized 
      into personal & business categories 
      for taxes. Syncs with smartphone 
      app and car consol to store info on the web.

11) Computerized self parking, both 
      back in and parallel .

joelbryan

I do think it's possible to get some mechanical/electrical energy from the suspension and shocks on the MS. 4500 lbs of vehicle flexing various metal parts of the car is a lot of force that can be captured and returned to the battery. The bumpier the ride, the more mechanical electricity returned to the battery ! Someone will have to design and invent it first.

I also think there is some mechanical/kinetic energy recovery possibilities for the tires, to return electricity to the battery. For example, at the point where the four tires contact the road, 4500 lbs of force is pushing on the tires from the car & road on the model S. When the tire roles, the force rotates around the tire and could be captured. The tires of course would have to be re-invented. And I don't know if centrifugal force would cancel out the effect.

These two ideas would be in addition to regenerative braking , which only works when the brakes are applied. However, one way to possibly generate (not regenerate) electricity from the wheels, that would be simpler and faster to invent is thus:
Make the rim of the wheel out of a hardened magnet. Put an electric wire through 2 axles connecting the four
wheels and leading back to the battery. When the magnetic rims of the tires rotate around the metal wire, it
will produce free electricity since the rim and tires have to rotate anyway when the car is in motion.

For quick verification and background info on this see the section "Other Configurations" in the link below.

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/electrical_generation.htm

Using Elon's first principles, I'd guess at least an additional 10-20 % more electric range is possible for
capture.

Now for a special treat you won't get on any other thread, creativity exercises to pump up your creative solutions muscles. Good for both technical and nontechnical types and people of all endeavors. The first question to share,I got from a book. It helps broaden your solution sets. In fact some solutions can even be infinite. Most people fall into the camp that believes their is only one perfect/best solution to a given problem. Ok here's the creativity building question:

1) How many uses can you find for a paperclip/s ?

Ok single answers include
1) clipping papers
2) tieclip

Break assumption, reform paperclip
3) fishhook
4) plastic bread bag twisty

Break assumption, create multiple infinite solutions
5) Twist together into different art pieces of infinite types large and small.
6) Form into letters, create infinite writings and sayings.

Use first principles,
7) A paperclip is a given amount of metal, melt them down by the ton, pour into molds or roll into sheets, make
into infinite shapes of metal products.
8) Interact these paper lip machined parts with other metal parts, make an infinite amount of machines.

Ok you get the idea, from single ideas, to infinite solution sets, how many can you name ? Feel free to answer here or use anywhere else you like, just thought I share and possibly stimulate more Gen3 ideas as well. If you care to post responses, don't forget to post the question. Thanks and create on.

Continuing on our creativity endeavors to stimulate ideas for Gen3, or for any other thread, or for just plan old anything you need ideas for. This is a Tesluthian original and it involves infinite, infinities solutions. Ok here's the question:

Can you think of an example of an infinite solution set, where each solution is itself an infinite solution ?

This is of course a lot harder, here's one example:

1) Physicist say one possible explanation of everything is the infinite-multiverse, where infinite universes are
created each with different laws and values of physics. And an infinite number of these universes are
expanding infinitely, never repeating a pattern, and all different.

This this is an example of an infinite solution of infinities. Can you think of any others ? I have a Tesluthian answer for you, one you read about no doubt in grade school. But first I'll let you give it a try.

The next creative, Tesluthian, original, question develops reframing or change of perspective to see and reason an answer, Here's the question:

1) What common object is both itself and it's opposite at all times, AND it is also just itself, AND not its opposite
all the time?

I guess you could say some subatomic particles maybe, but this object is easily seen. @Timo & @BrianH you probably already figured it out, wait a little before giving the answer, thnx.

This question is a real Zen Koan I read about, the book didn't give an answer; but I have a real Tesluthian answer for you. To get some answers, it helps to break through your emotional, cultural assumptions to get some answers for a seemingly impossible question. Hear's the Zen Koan Question:

1) What is the sound of one hand clapping ? Can you come up with multiple answers ? Can you come up with
an Infinite answer or two ? As a help, let's say "silence" is not an answer, actual sound descriptions are
wanted for answers.

Ok after these creativity questions , our brains should be charged enough to get to one thousand suggestions. I think we are between 200 & 300 right now.

Here's a thought question for the EE's.

1) On the MS-85 how many miles does one electron move the MS-85 kWh ? Let's call it MPE (miles per electron).
Yes I know it will be a really small number.

B) How many nanometers does one electron move the MS-85 (NPE) ?

2) How does the MPE & NPE of the MS-85 compare to the MPE & NPE of the MS-40 kWh ?

3) How many nanograms will one MS-85 kWh electron push one nanometer ? Ditto MS-40 ?

Here's a chance to show your calculating mastery.

***I believe the number of total electrons was calculated in a Tesla Motors company post.

Can you design a feature on the Gen3 that is not a perpetual motion machine, but increases milage ?

Here's a feature for all Beijing Tesla cars, Gas Mask Quality Air Filters to filter out the smog from the air before you breathe it while driving the car. Tesla will own the AEV market in Beijing.

@Tesluthian
Double-thick, sure. Makes sense in a truck. Whatever the shape, the point is it will need lots of cells, probably much more than 7,000. All added weight must contribute to:
(a) power or
(b) strength to deal with all that power.
Also, if battery weight to total weight is in similar proportion as in model S, it could probably have comparable acceleration performance. So Tesla could also redo that stupid Hemmi drag race ad with the two dense dudes and show some really interesting performance. Not that impressive acceleration is important in a truck, but I don't see why it couldn't be done (say in 7 seconds). Of course, priority should go to the right attributes, such as strength, power, torque, and so on.

Not sure in-wheel motors have much appeal. I hear that and see increased maintenance or risk of failure. Plus, they will add weight to any wheel of same strength, and wheels are the last place you want to add weight, because of the extra energy you'll need as you accelerate versus if that same extra weight is not rotating. Basic physics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

So an in-wheel motor would have to be very outstanding in other regards to at least compensate for these problems. But I grant you that for a pick-up truck, it could mean no transmission of any kind to break, since the force is applied directly to the ground.

If the Bluestar inherits similar performance or at least range as the model S, the luxury segment will keep pushing the limit, so 500 mile per charge AEV is probably just a matter of time. I think Tesla achieved a good compromise so far, between range and cost/battery size. With battery technology evolving probably very fast, it doesn't make much sense to build cars that have much more ranged than needed if the batteries involved will eventually become obsolete. Better be a little more conservative and upgrade later when you can do more with less. That's what's wonderful about technology: one of the few things on this planet that generally tends to get better and cheaper as time goes on.

Yes, electrons on board was an early Tesla blog post... tiny indeed.

"Can you design a feature on the Gen3 that is not a perpetual motion machine, but increases mil[e]age ?"

Answer: extreme aerodynamics. If energy consumption at speed becomes small enough (thanks to extreme aerodynamics), then solar panels might become worthwhile and range could potentially become near-infinite, so to speak.

Double-thick is also double-heavy and double hot. Lots of complications there; it amounts to double-stacking the cells. Very low chance of going that route rather than improving the cells, IMO. But who knows what lurks in the minds of Tesla engineers?

@TeslaRocks

I think your right, in-wheel motors are not ready for prime time. Let the the technology develop for awhile. That said, what about the angular momentum effects of a spinning disk that would comprise the in-wheel motor ? Did some viding where the angular momentum, in the correct orientation, makes it easier to lift a given weight. Was very interesting. I'll see if I can find the vid.

On extreme aerodynamic design, I've seen some of those solar car contest, lots of surface area, not much cargo space.

@BrianH

You forgot double the price.

I didn't forget it, but no one (here) knows the actual battery price, so what would double?

@Tesluthian

Right, solar cars are at the true extreme of aerodynamics. I meant extreme compared to the box cars of today, so even more aerodynamic than the model S, which would end up at a happy compromise between performance and practicality. There is still lots of room for improvement if practicality can be sacrificed a little, such as seating 5 instead of 5 + 2. Here is another extreme for inspiration, so draw a line between that to today's car and find the optimal point on that segment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMh0NChh5is

BrianH

"What would double ? "

The MS & MX double to 200k.

The GenIII platform models MR, smaller Ms, smaller Mx, GIII pickup, etc also all come in close to $200k.

An extra 100k per car should assuage your development costs, worries etc. Of course this would be for the .1%, people like movie stars, rock stars, the Rolls Royce crowd, Texas Oil Tycoons, Macau casino whales, people who live in castles in Europe, etc. They would want only the best Milage AEVs. This pricing should help recoup development costs. Also good for more publicity & Tesla branding.

And don't forget, double the profits for a double platform over a single platform.

@TeslaRoxks

That Extreme Vehicle in you vidlink reminds me a little of a bobsled. The tail is also interesting, I guess it reduces drag. And I've seen some 18 wheelers add fins to the back of the trailers.

Another thing about those vehicle fins, it creates extra space. Maybe you could hide a spare tire in there and some other emergency gear.

I could see those right now as cool beans, fun rentals at tourist areas, where you want to zip around and see the sights.

@TeslaRocks

Found this extreme aerodynamic car link. The Germans say this is also a diesel electric car that gets over 260 mpg. I sure it has a good range as well.

http://news.discovery.com/autos/fuel-and-alternative-fuel-technologies/v...

So that's also why I say a double platform option for Tesla AEV cars to keep the range lead for at least pure electrics vehicles.

I sure it has a good range as well. ?????????????????
It says 31 miles on a battery charge!!! Carries two people cost $100,000.
Does not sound like a winner.

Teslutian;
Why would doubling the cost of a component double the vehicle price? Makes no sense.

BrianH

...it makes no sense.

I'm no rocket scientist Brian but I'll try to explain it to you.

A $100k MS x 25% profit = $25k profit.
A $200k MS x 25% profit = $50k profit.

50k divided by 25k = 2 or twice as profitable.

You must of missed out being a paperboy. The Sunday paper was always way bigger, more expensive, and a better moneymaker.

ghillair,

I agree, nothing for Tesla to worry about, doesn't seem to have a lot of practical function like cargo space, etc.
As for range, sounds like it's a hybrid, al la the Chevy Volt, so the total miles will be more than 31, although this Volkswagen hybrid uses diesel, not gas. It also looks like a concept car, so it's got a long way to go. But the miles per gallon was impressive.

That's @TeslaRocks, not @TeslaRoxks, sorry bout that TeslaRocks.

I found this link on Forbes, where the author reviews various hints Elon has given on GenIII pricing. If you haven't already seen it, I think you all might find it interesting. Note however one thing Elon doesn't say is if his price targets are before or after EV tax credits.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/03/25/teslas-bmw-3-series-...

Tesluthian;
The price of the vehicle would not be doubled. There is such a thing as price elasticity (loss of demand with increasing price). So prices cannot be set arbitrarily without losing more than you gain with increased profit.

In any case your doubling margin with doubling price is wrong; most of that price increase would go directly to margin since the battery costs would not be nearly so much, but the sales would plummet.

BrianH

Yes I know Brian, But if something is unique, a luxury item, or hard to get anywhere else it will support more margin and be more inelastic. And by including luxury items, you can get the price point anywhere you want. And since nobody else has it, e.g. 500+ mile EV range, where else can you go to buy it ?

And look at the bright side. One 200k car will be equal to five 40k cars, at 25 % profit for each. That means you could sell 1/5 th as many 200k cars still have the same profit, plus use less production resources.

It's like restaurants, you could buy a McDonald's and serve a million meals a year at less margin, or buy a five star restaurant and make the same amount of profit serving a 100,000 meals a year, with higher margin. To say your sales would plummet because of high prices is moot, and is comparing apples to oranges.

O'Reilly? Conduct a survey. How many here would have paid $200K for a 500-mi EV? The margin would be about 40%, I expect, something like $80K. But I expect only about 1/10 as many would have been sold.

BrianH

Is "O'Reilly" Irish for "Oh really ?

BrianH

Ask George Clooney if he would buy a 500 mi EV or 300 mi EV. Anybody who has money to burn would be an idiot to buy a lower Milage model.

There's another logic error in your statement:
"How many here would have paid $200k for a 500 mi-EV ? "

Your only surveying Tesla buyers. But this represents only one purchase group. Lets survey other groups like Bugatti , Lamborghini, & Rolls Royce etc owners. I'd say your survey results would double or triple at least.

Another untapped group are people who like EV's and didn't buy one because of range. This group then becomes purchasers at the 500 mi EV range. Let's say they are good for at least another 1 in 10 purchases at 200k.

Now let's add all the groups together.
A) 1 in ten Tesla buyers upgrade to 200k/500mi/EV
B).3 in ten 200k TM purchases come from 200k range buyers like Rolls etc.
C) 1 in ten 200k TM purchases come from upper income people waiting for this higher 500 mi, EV range.

Now add all the groups together, 1+3+1 = 4 out of ten TM sales are for the 200k//500 mi/EV, not an insignificant number. Plus your now giving me 40% margin which is even higher profits than I quoted.

Thus for every ten TM sales,
(4 TMs SOLD X 200k price = 800k) x 40% profit = 320k profit
(6 TMs SOLD X 100k price = 600k) x 25% profit = 150k profit
*This now also shows over double the profit of a double stack platform TM EV getting over 500 miles per charge.

Now let's scale up our profit results to 100,000 of Tesla EV vehicles.
The lower volume 200k TM EV =. $3,200,000,000 billion of profits
The higher volume 100k TM EV. = $1,500,000,000 billion of profits

Now let's review your fallacy, you cherry picked a subgroup for your survey, to get the result you wanted. That's like taking a wine survey in Mc Donalds asking how many people would buy a $200 bottle of wine that tasted really good. You get 1 out of ten. Now go to a fancy Napa Valley wine tasting vineyard club and ask them the same question, and you get at least 3-4 out of ten.

Basic marketing.

The $200K sales wouldn't scale, but would peak very early, probably at under 5K/yr. The capex to make them would take some time to work off, and would detract from the mass-market GenIII, which is where the real volume and money is.

In any case, the "double-thick" is never going to happen for engineering and weight reasons.


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