*shrug*, given P deliveries (the ones that could pick standard suspension) won't likely start until September, it's only P folks in the first ~3k or so that would be affected. And of those, only the first 1/2 would have any significant delay.
This was discussed here as well:
Similarly, gray leather interior has an annotation saying it will only become available in November this year.
As a P reservation holder not wanting the air suspension, and being under 500, and having waited over three years for this car, I'm pretty unhappy that a $1500 option, that I see no use in, will delay my delivery by three plus months.
And I see no reason a 60 additional mile option for $10k that I see no use in should delay my delivery.
I am getting the air suspension with the 240 mile battery.
Guess we're even LOL.
Another one of TM's little "surprises", huh George? First it was the Sigs, then the 85kWh battery. Now it's the air suspension. What will be the next option to get head-of-the-line privileges? I'm betting on the Performance. Maybe there's a good reason (beyond revenue maximization), but it appears that for all the cutting edge technology that TM touts, their production line is only capable of producing a single variant of the Model S at a time.
Decisions, decisions. I wasn't going to get the air suspension, but will now because of the uncertainty of the funding for the federal $7500 tax credit and $2500 CA CVRP rebate beyond 2012.
stevenmaifert, that have to start with something. We all expect compromised build quality, and that's Tesla's primary promise next to selling approx. 5000 cars this year. If they tried to do everything at once, quality would almost necessarily suffer.
that -> they
compromised -> uncompromised
Dammit. I think you get the idea... ;-)
Edit feature, anyone??
Volker.Berlin - You may be right, but that's little comfort for those with low P numbers who have been waiting patiently for years now only to see their delivery slip to 2013 because the production line can't walk and chew gum at the same time without risking a compromise in quality. BTW, hopefully you meant uncompromised build quality :) The order of production could have been published a long time ago, and was to a certain extent, but to see these little surprises slip into the fine print as we go along is very disappointing. The production line will be tooled up to produce the first 1000 Sigs. There are standard features on the Sigs that are optional on the Ps. If they are going to deliver the first Ps to those who want to option up to a Sig (less the cosmetics) before they retool, they need to get that out now so the rest of us can resign ourselves to waiting or take our business elsewhere.
Volker.Berlin - You beat me to it with the edit :)
What I don't get is, if TM only have a few officially placed orders how can they say all these models made before Jan first will be made with active air. The 230 mile batteries go to production in Nov 2012. If none of the 230 mile customers wanted active air, what would they do? What crytal ball did they use I am a 230 mile customer but TM does not know this, because they have not asked anyone except the Signature folks. What survey did they use to say they will be putting in active air because so many have already asked for it. Not me, have anyone been asked if they want active air, I don't think so. This is a marketing trick to force of to buy this option and really burns me up. I can't wait till January and TM is betting on that. This is not good.
All of this could have been more transparent.
We find out about tech package sticker shock after 2 years on the reservation list. Then we get a performance class that moves ahead of "P"s. We still don't know anything about superchargers for 60kWh or even if there is a real plan to have a supercharger network.
Now we've got a brand new defacto class of cars to push us out.
I just don't get it. Why not just work out a production schedule months ago and give reservation holders an approximate date.
It's like Tesla is sitting around waiting to think up new ways to trick us into upgrades we don't want.
I think I've got to draw a line.
Either I get the car I knew I wanted last month for $65K or less in November or I walk. I can't go on waiting for an uncertain "deal" forever.
I don't drive in snow and don't climb mountains into my driveway. With the heck am I being pushed into this option?
I think TM wants to please the shareholders.
DanD & Stephan
I agree this could and should have been more transparent. But I don't think their motivation is to "trick us into upgrades we don't want" or "wanting to please the shareholders". I think this more about designing a new car and its assembly line from scratch in a nearly impossibly short time. There wasn't enough time to get all the options production ready before they had to flip the switch on the assembly line to meet their production commitments.
What if they threw in the Active Air Suspension for free for everyone? That way nobody has to be forced back to the end of the line.
I'd like to see a more complete list of the standard features to compare with what's in these packages. The tech package lists high-D rear view camera. Does that mean a lower res. camera is standard? It lists turn by turn nav. Does that mean a simpler map Nav is standard? I could put the iPhone in a docking port in a pinch, but the ambiguity is frustrating.
But I am determined to have the 85kw-h battery. My driveway bottom, on a hill, has a steep approach angle on one side that already scrapes chin spoilers on a Volvo and an SVT Ford Contour. So, air suspension looks wise (maybe I'll get a test drive to try it out - we live not far from Fremont). Most impressive is that Tesla has hit or exceeded just about all its milestone goals so far. As others on this list say, reducing production permutations for this year's run could be very sensible business - as does going first for high-end customers to amp cash flow.
I still don't know if the res. number we have is for total production, or starts after the first 1000 Signatures. The wait is killing us.
It sounds like it's government regulations which are forcing the move about "active air". It doesn't sound like it's optional for this year. If that's the case, I would think that Tesla would be forced to give it to customers even if they didn't want or need it; it would be like a recall in reverse!
Petit@nasw.org I had the same questions about the camera and navigation. I watched some video that had a close up of the 17' screen, and it did look like camera and navigation were there.
So no one wants to try and answer how can TM assume that all the production time until Jan will have orders for active air. Where did they get that info from without a sigle order. Can anyone answer that?
I would guess that it is more about the availability of certain parts for the standard suspension.
@DanD, you already said you dropped your reservation and even said you were off looking into a lawsuit against Tesla.
Why are you here?
I think it's a part availability thing. I don't see how it's a government regulation. Do all cars have to have air suspension this year or just the Tesla Model S?
When you call a supplier and order 20,000 shocks and struts they don't just keep those hanging around on a shelf. Could also be the shocks failed a quality control test and had to be remade.... maybe you'd rather have the defective part put in then you could get a car with Karma issues.
It's about as transparent as it gets. When they make a decision they tell us. What makes you think two years ago they were sitting around going, "Hey lets make the air suspension required for the first 5000 cars. OH! Lets not tell them until a few months before delivery."
No matter what the reason is there are a few that will think it a conspiracy.
DanD, I don't understand why you're still here complaining anyway. You have a history of saying "if Tesla does or doesn't so or so, I'll walk away". I actually thought you left long time ago...
It's your choice. You know it, we know it, Tesla knows it. If you don't like the deal, you can and should walk away. Remarkably, up to now, you still seem to think that the deal Tesla offers is fair, otherwise you wouldn't hold onto your reservation.
ckessel, sorry for repeating your post. I should read all posts first, before saying what must be said... ;-)
I'd like to see a more complete list of the standard features to compare with what's in these packages. The tech package lists high-D rear view camera. Does that mean a lower res. camera is standard? It lists turn by turn nav. Does that mean a simpler map Nav is standard? (petit)
Much of what you're asking for is detailed on the "Specs" page. These are the features that come standard with the base Model S for $57,400 before tax credit:
There is an entire thread dedicated to these kinds of uncertainties, but most of them have been resolved in the mean time:
So no one wants to try and answer how can TM assume that all the production time until Jan will have orders for active air. Where did they get that info from without a single order. Can anyone answer that? (wbrown01)
No, of course nobody on this forum can answer it, because we all have the same sources and the info is not there. We're left to common sense and guesswork.
Personally, I think it's a mixture of everything that was mentioned: The Sigs have air suspension, thus the production line is kept simpler and quality control is easier if they continue with that configuration for a while after the Sigs. Of course, higher optioned cars are also good for the cash flow, and investors like that, nothing wrong with it. Logistics are easier to ramp up if new parts are incrementally added to the supply chain. As far as I'm concerned, until only a few months ago, I didn't even know that air suspension would be available! Tesla is moving fast and is communicating about as openly as possible under the circumstances.
What's the alternative? Take a Leaf, a Prius, a Volt or any conventional ICE car. It's available today. If you can drive a BEV like the Model S in 2013, it's a great achievement! In 2009, when the Model S was announced, a lot of people (actually, the vast majority) wouldn't have expected a car like that even for 2015!
Why would Tesla assume that almost half of their reservation holders so far will decide for air suspension? They can't assume it, but they can hope for it. I am sure they will find a way to avoid a stop in production if they cannot find enough reservation holders willing to take the air suspension option. And they will call reservation holders early enough to find out when they need to know. Given that it all went extremely smooth up to now, I trust they'll manage.
To keep the timelines in perspective, remember that 2 (two!) years ago TM was in the process of acquiring the NUMMI/Fremont factory. They hadn't even swept the floors, much less begun installing robots!
I doubt there's a start-up story in the world to match it.
Volker, Brian, I agree with you.
What's wrong with this is that when we placed our reservation, we were assigned a number. For years we have assumed that number represented our place in line. Now, just days before the start of production, we are finding that number is meaningless for reasons that have not been well explained by TM. If we're lucky, GB will address the issue in today's blog post and end the speculation, but don't hold your breath.
Your number is the place in line when you get contacted to configure your car. If you have P-451, you will be called before P-452.
If your configuration contains an item not available by the estimated production date, you have the right of a one-time deferral.
It's in the license agreement. So nothing wrong here except people not reading paperwork that they filed $5k for.
Besides of that I can understand frustration if order of delivery will deviate grossly from registration number. But it is Tesla's game that we have to play here.
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