Forums

Join The Community
RegisterLogin

Battery Range - Performance in the Real World

I need some help/input from the “Forum.” Perhaps Roadster owners can advise me from their hands on experience. I am trying to decide between the 160 or 230 mile range battery.

1. Am I correct, the Roadster and ‘S’ batteries are roughly the same?
2. The factory uses the 245 mile range for the Roadster. What is your real world mileage range in daily driving?
3. After a couple of years what percentage decrease in range and performance have you experienced?

Also, I understand the faster I drive and the more accessories I use will reduce the range. I am not a racer but I do enjoy a spirited drive. I will likely have the air conditioner or heater, audio, and other accessories on. The 160 range battery will satisfy 80% of my daily driving needs but if the real world range and age degrade the actual range to under 120, I may need to step up to the 230.

Thanks for your help.

If you need to regularly drive more than 100 miles on a single charge, then I would highly recommend stepping up to the 230 mile pack. The standard daily charge will most likely normally top out at 80% or so of the battery capacity for longevity reasons. When the battery is "maxed out", a little more damage is caused each time. So you wouldn't want to do it every day.

While 80% of 160 is about 125 miles, I would want a bit more elbow room to allow for future degradation.

Hi,

This article is very informative.

Roadster Efficiency and Range

In particular check out this graph to see what your ideal range will be at various speeds.

Roadster Range vs Speed

Larry

So using the above graph and assuming the Model S battery is similiar you can calculate the ratio increase or decrease over the EPA range of 245 miles and multiple it by the proposed Model S ideal battery range.

Larry

Larry,

I read in this forum that roadster owners typically charge only to 80% to prolong the battery life. That said, I drive mostly freeways, UGH! the range really drops off. I was confident with 230 miles, but given that I drive all freeways daily 110 miles, I may have to go up to the 300.

Roadster Reference
Miles
Avg SP 245 100%
60 220 90%
65 200 82%
70 180 73%
75 170 69%

Model S Miles same avg speeds
Charged at 100% Charged at 80%
160 230 300 160 230 300

144 207 269 115 165 216
117 169 220 94 135 176
86 124 162 69 99 129
60 86 112 48 69 90

Thanks for the info. Eric

Better table
Charged at 100%
Avg SP 160 230 300
60 144 207 269
65 117 169 220
70 86 124 162
75 60 86 112

Charged at 80%
Avg SP 160 230 300
60 115 165 216
65 94 135 176
70 69 99 129
75 48 69 90

So with a 300 mile pack, the drive from SF-LA and back is going to be a bit more difficult than expected, requiring more than just one charge stop. Who drives less than 75mph on I5?

Well Not really. At an average speed of 75 MPH, you can go a max (100% charged) of 112 Miles. If you charge the battery to 80% and at avg speed of 75mph you will go 90 miles. For me it is ~380 miles from my house in the bay area to LA. Likely use another car for those trips.

I hop I am wrong! - E

I am willing to drive 60 mph on an annual back and forth trip between Seattle and Phoenix (1600 miles). I figure I'll go 200 miles in the morning, charge in the afternoon, and drive another 200 miles before ending the day. That makes it a four day trip. Do you think I will make it?

I think it depends on where you charge. Below is rough and was based on a response to a question I asked earlier today. Assumes a 10% conversion loss

Charging to 100% of capacity

Rate 300 Miles
Volts Amps Rate kWh 90 kWh
110 15 1,650 1.65 60.6

220 30 6,600 6.6 15.2

440 50 22,000 22 4.5

Charging to 80% of capacity

Rate 300 Miles
Volts Amps Rate kWh 72 kWh
110 15 1,650 1.65 48.5

220 30 6,600 6.6 12.1

440 50 22,000 22 3.6

Miles gained for each hour of charging

Volts 110 220 440
Amps 15 30 50
4.95 19.8 66

Sorry I have not figured out how to format. Charging to 100% for a 300 Mile (90 KwH) battery will take 60 hours if you use a standard wall outlet 110 volts 15 amps. This declines if you use a dryer outlet at 220 volts and 30 amps to 15.2 hours.

Lastly, if you can find 440 volts and 50 amps to charge from - every hour of charging you can go 66 miles

EricK, I think you made math error somewhere along the way. If driving at 75mph drops the effective range by 69%, as per your table, then the 300-mile battery goes 208 miles, not 112 miles. I think this table is correct, assuming that the Model S has the same performance curve as the Roadster:

100% Charge:

&nbsp&nbsp&nbspModel S Battery Range
mphRoadsterefficiency160230300
55245100%160230300
6022090%144207269
6520082%131188245
7018073%118169220
7517069%111160208

Note that, because the Model S apparently has a Cd of 0.22, much better than the Roadster, it's possible that the curve will be better.

(the partial implementation of HTML on these boards is annoying)

Thanks Robert, I think your chart is closer to what we can expect. I would also note that while the Cd is significantly lower, the A is significantly higher. What this means is that it should be a wash (CdA product is nearly identical then for the two cars.)and the charts that apply to the roadster can almost directly be used for the 230 mile pack Model S....

Robert,

THANK YOU! You are correct. What a relief. Do you buy into the charge to 80% to extend the battery life?

Mycroft is right. You should not give a complete charge or discharge as this degrades the battery a little each time.

Agreed, William13; but even on Range mode, the battery isn't completely discharged (or even completely charged -- it could be pushed). But it's clear that Range mode should be used only when needed.

(the partial implementation of HTML on these boards is annoying) (Robert.Boston)

Maybe it's your partial HTML syntax... ;-) Try " " (do not forget the semicolon).

Note that, because the Model S apparently has a Cd of 0.22, much better than the Roadster, it's possible that the curve will be better. (Robert.Boston)

From the information we have so far, it seems fair to assume that the better Cd will almost precisely be canceled out by the larger A(rea). Timo has made the following calculation in another thread:

Roadster Cd is pretty bad actually. Something like 0.35 according to wikipedia, so 0.225/0.35 = 0.643 (rounded) gives a rough figure how much bigger the front area can be to get same result.

(roughly, not counting tires)
Model S dimensions = 1426mm * (2189mm - 154mm) = 2.9 m^2
Roadster dimensions = 1851 mm * (1127 mm - 130 mm) = 1.85 m^2

1.85/2.9 = 0.64.

That's d*mn close to counter the larger area pretty exactly.

This means you can actually use the Roadster table for Model S air drag in "Roadster Efficiency and Range".
(Timo in http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/aerodynamics?page=1)

Larry Chanin did a better chart on mileage, posted here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6779-How-far-does-an-EV-ha...

Hi Robert,

I wouldn't say that it was better. I did steal your chart layout though. ;-)

Larry

Until such time that charging stations are readily available and can provide a very fast charge, it is fair to say that range should be the distance you can go and return home; that is, half the total distance that the BEV can go on a charge when you start. In the several useful tables provided in this thread, thus far, the "range" numbers should be halved if this definition of range is considered. As to how ling it will take to have a sufficient number charging stations, I have no idea. But at least ten years from now would not seem unreasonable.

@Zelaza: I agree, unless you're headed to a hotel/motel with a charging station acknowledged in advance.

Otherwise you're thinking like Chico Marx: tried to fly across the ocean, got halfway there, ran out of gas, had to go back... etc.

@Zelaza
Positive as always! If you don't like EV what are you doing here?

They aren't describing it as boomerang-range. It's pure, simple range. So, no, it shouldn't be halved.

http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+range&qpvt=range+defined&...
transportation distance traveled without refueling: the farthest distance that a vehicle or aircraft can travel without needing to refuel

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/range
the distance that can be covered by an aircraft, ship, or other vehicle, carrying a normal load without refueling.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/range
b: the maximum distance a vehicle or craft can travel without refueling

Even for aircraft direction discussion...
http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~lutze/AOE3104/
http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~lutze/AOE3104/range&endurance.pdf
We generally consider the range to be the distance the
aircraft can fly from a given speed and altitude until it runs out of fuel

directed*

With all due respect, Zelaza is obviously an oil industry plant and should be ignored.

1. Unless you have a very unique job most people work a minimum of 8 hours a day.
2. My employer and most imployers would be willing to dedicate a space and an outlet for one employee who has an EV.
3. 10 years from now when there are greater than 100 thousand EV's on the road infrastructure will become increasingly important.
4. If you download the app recargo it will be obvious that infrastructure is actually ahead of demand.
5. EVERYONE/EVERY STRUCTURE has a110v outlet and many have a 220v outlet
(for example my office has a 220v that previously was used for an air conditioner & I will be using it)

8 hours on 220v will totally charge even the 300 mile battery.

One year ago I purchased a nice used vehicle for road trips. The more I learn about the Model S and think this process through, the more I realize that I will even be able to use my Model S for road trips as well.

Don't be fooled or swayed by Zelaxa or an industry that;
A. Dismantled the existing public transit system (trolleys) that we are now reinstituting as (light rail)
B. Said mandates to include everything from turning signals, seat belts, air bags etc would destroy the industry and make cars unaffordable.
C. Successfully lobbied against 55mph speed limit which both saved lives as well as TOO MUCH GAS.
D. Successfully lobbied and kept trucks from being included in CAFE standards then convinced a significant number of us to pay more for them because of minimal updates to the interior, furthermore convinced us that only driving in something the size of a hummer would keep us and our children safe.
E. Bult an electric car but would not let us buy them, then took them back and destroyed them.

My fellow Tesla / EV enthusiasts, the oil and automobile industry are scared !
THEY ARE FREAKING OUT SO MUCH THAT THEY ARE RUNNING "GENERIC COMMERCIALS, THE ONES NOW APPEARING ON THE TV WHERE THEY CLAIM TO BE PROVIDING ENERGY AND JOBS FOR JOE 6 PACK, THE MIDDLE CLASS AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS."

Zelaxa, how much are they paying you? Should be at least $100 per post. If not you should renegotiate.

Lastly, infrastructure. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING US ! DO YOU THINK WE ARE IDIOTS !

THE INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY EXISTS. NAME ONE GAS STATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE ELECTRICITY AND PARKING SPACES. NAME ONE ! MOST HAVE SOME SORT OF SERVICE COMPONENT AND ALL OF THOSE HAVE 220v

EVERY LIGHT YOU SEE IN A PARKING LOT OR ON THE STREET IS ON A POST AND EVERY POST HAS A PANEL VIA ONE COULD ACCESS ELECTRICITY, EVERYONE COULD EASILY HAVE A CHARGING STATION ATTACHED.

People wake up, it's not that difficult.

Signature 482

Referencing C. Above for clarification

55mph speed limit saved lives and saved TOO MUCH GAS. There was a significant drop in the amount of gasoline being used and the Oil Industry did not like this.

@My5bAby
"55mph speed limit saved lives"

That was the premise. But my recollection is that newer information (last 10 years) proved the opposite. I believe it was something related to improvements in vehicle quality at higher speeds.

May 31, 1999
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-346es.html
"All of the evidence thus far indicates that Americans have not responded to higher speed limits by converting the highways into stretches of the Indianapolis 500. Any loss of life has been very minimal—and at most a tiny fraction of what had been predicted by the safety lobby. Meanwhile, Americans have saved some 200 million manhours in terms of less time spent on the road. The net economic benefit of raising the speed limit has been between $2 and $3 billion a year."

So we dont travel much but my wifes surgeon is in Tampa which is 196 mile one way, the other place we always excape to is Disney, which is 130 mile away. So we definatly need the 300 mile battery and I better slow down, in my MB S550 we usually do 80-90 cause you really dont realize your going that fast. Here in FLA we dont have any charging stations yet but I know Orlando & Miami are working on putting some in which will be great once more EVs get on the road.

We own a towing company & I am wondering if Tesla has taken the "Our cars dont break down" idea like some car makers. I need to see if they put provisions for me to put them on the flatbed. When BMW changed there body style a couple years ago they didnt have the hooks we have now for part of the year, but then somebody told them & they fixed it. It would be great if they have the eyelt behind the bumper with the removable peice to hide it but none of the pictures Ive seen show it. Since Ive already had to tow my wifes S550 for running out of gas Im positive I will have to get her for not charging the Tesla LOL


X Deutschland Site Besuchen