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Fisker's $95k plug in car

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2011/04/06/bsg_fisker_karma.fortune/

Sure, 3000 Fisker units are supposed to be delivered this year, but as a Tesla S resv. holder, I don't hold a shred of remorse or feel the Fisker warrants +35k.

OK, the reclaimed interior/dash materials is appealing, however,
IMHO the Fisker vehicle is too quirky, e.g. foglights and solar panel that might supply 200 mi of transport annually; supposing that's equiv. $20/yr in electric costs, how many decades to recoup? I'd rather have the panel on my residence always south-facing at an angle, in the midwest there just aren't enough parking lots with 15% grade to align with...

Any impatient S resv. holders going to jump on this?

IMHO it's a wannabe Roadster, and a poor imitation at that.

The one and only thing it has is it's gas tank for long trips, but who in their right mind is gonna take that thing on a long trip?

Didn't realize it was coming to market so soon. I hadn't heard much of anything about it. Cool looking car though. Not really comparable to the Roadster since it's 4-door and 4 passenger. Certainly a bit more sexy, sports car looking that the Model S. I wouldn't get it though instead of the Model S as the price differential is too high and prefer Tesla's pure EV solution.

I don't get how the Karma is going to sell the numbers being mentioned though. It's really spendy and a 4-door luxury hybrid sports car doesn't strike me as a big market niche.

All the best to Fisker. The Karma is a car with great looks and appeal. Hope they sell big numbers.
Anything drawing people away from plain ICE cars is good for alternative propelled cars. It shows the viability of the new propulsion concepts.
Grain of salt for me is the high price and the serial hybrid concept.

clarification: did not intend in orig. comment that foglights per se are not quirky, just that the Fisker geometry around the foglights, and rear exhaust?, is unsettling, appears trapezoidal.

Apart of being too expensive for me, I really don't care to much for the total design. The exterior is probably a matter of taste, but the technical part just doesn't do it for me. It's not really a great EV compared to Model S. It really needs the ICE to make it a good performer. I wonder what the MPG is when the battery is empty.
I don't like the battery tunnel in the middle of the interior either. It looks like the car's interior is not very spacious because of it. It's supposed to be on the Amsterdam car show, so I'll probably check it out.

Good points on the technical side, Ad. If I were able to get to Amsterdam again, I think the car show would be at the bottom of my list after ___, ___, and belgian waffles ;)

Quote:I really don't care to much for the total design. The exterior is probably a matter of taste, but the technical part just doesn't do it for me.

Have been thinking the same for months.

It is in the same class for me as the Volt. A super-hybrid this one is just over priced

Starts at 95K$

I checked out the options on their website.... Not bad.. But too pricey

It definitely is no ModelS..:. But I gotta admit, the interior is much better than the ModelS. If only the interior can be improved!

And whats all this fuss about recycled materials n such... I personally do not care... If I'm paying $$, I want something worth it...

NOTHING WE DO will save the environment... Recycling is also a big joke... the city workers simply gather everything at a certain point and mix it with garbage. Even at a place Im temp working at, they take all the recycled blue bins and mix it with the garbage at the end of the day. It's all just a big show to make the public happy. I've seen it happen and I've been at a city dump site during a study.

I really hope Elon Musk makes the models a great car.... Tree hugging isn't going to make him or anyone any money.... Ppl want a great car with great features... If gas prices were what they were in the 80s, no one would consider an electric with a premium price tag... Maybe like less than 1% actually buy electric vehicles to "help" the environment. Lol

I would jump on the Karma in a heart beat if the price was on par with my signature edition.

Electric cars beat ICE in performance, have better TCO, more space, are nearly silent and are much more convenient than ICE cars. Model S beats Karma in all other categories except "filling up the tank". I wouldn't buy Karma even if it were half of that price.

Electric is the future. Model S with its design will not be obsoleted in next few years, they only need to upgrade the battery pack to keep the car rolling. Karma is badly obsoleted in less than 10 years, Volt even faster.

You say that Karma has better interior than Model S. Have you seen production Model S interior? I haven't. I think nobody has.

The showroom Karma vs showroom ModelS. Cant compare the interior... Day and night. The touchscreen on the modelS would be the only thing worth over the Karma's "interior".

I'm not saying the Karma is an overall better car... Just the interior. The only thing that prevented me from buying a Porsche was the hideous interiors... The Jaguar XJ for example has one of the best instrument clusters to date.. For a car that will certainly turn heads and compete with the 5series.... I expect the ModelS interior to be on par. I don't think the will be able to change anything at this point.

I still love the ModelS and the all electric 300mile range is something I can never walk away from.

"NOTHING WE DO will save the environment." t7n7

granted 7 billion people with finite resources on the path we're heading is clearly unsustainable, nevertheless, you've professed a most apathetic comment.

The chances of 7 billion people doing anything for a common purpose is slim.. It's not that I don't care, I'm just tired of doing something that won't make a difference.

To date, I still recycle, I make sure my kids recycle. Even if and when my 5 year old throws his popsicle stick , on the road, I go back to pick it up. I hate people that throw stuff out of their cars, regardless of the size... I turn off the lights when not in use and I absolutely hate wasting food... When so many are in need. It's not that I don't care... It just doesn't make a difference.

Ive been reading into several studies and facts about the impacts on the environment... its a joke... This is the wrong forum for this so I'll stop... The sun is dying...

I hope they make the model S with the best of the best and not worry about giving up certain materials. That's all.

As one member has on his signature here... The world is deceived.... That's the truth.

The sun dying comment is supposed to be a joke.. As in, it will be millions of years before anything.. Which by that time, we should be highly advanced enough to find another planet. But ppl talk about that too. Rofl...

@t7n7

If more people were like you, going back to pick up the popsicle stick, then the would would actually be a cleaner place. So your over-pessimistic attitude it rather contradictory to your actions. Again, if more people took your actions, we could actually make more changes. Furthermore, IF people got off the petrol-high they are on, the we could easily reduce CO2 emissions.

But regarding the interior ... instead of arguing with your point of view, how about you just let us know exact details of what the Model S is lacking in and then what the Fisker is better at for the interior.

Who knows, maybe Tesla is listening and might make some changes.

...

Air vents (HVAC) look very cheap and something an amateur designed.

cup holders are plain and obvious (as in, that is one of the first thing you notice when you look at the center
console... Instead of something cool like a state of the art "lookin'" transmission control

Main cluster is clearly seen as a screen and not as a speedometer/odometer cluster... Could be better integrated.. Eg: BMW 7series, Jaguar XJ, Karma
When you lOok at it, you know your looking at a screen. Check pics of side angles for more obvious views

Plain, plain and plain. Everything from the top of the dashboard(top of steering wheel as well) to the glove compartment. Even the steering wheel looks cheap. Check out the Karma's, reminds u of one from a BMW. Thick, great ergonomics etc

Rear passengers get the same comfy treatment and controls. No evidence of any on the modelS.. Have you seen the back seat? It's flat and plain...

Doors for the karma has a button to open it (pops out?), even the window controls look fluid and modern.

Leather , multicolor, etc

I can go on but compare every point I made Witt the Karma.

Go to the site n check it out. You will know what I mean: day and night.

I'm crazy about the ModelS's infotainment system:..

Also, going back to the way I am with the environment.. I was raised like this.. Learned from my dad n so it's a habit. Others who are used to chucking cig buds and garbage out of cars were probably raised like that. We can never change that or even expect everyone to even try. If every person in the world donated a penny, that charity would have billions.. Of every person was told to smoke weed at the same time... We would have world peace for a couple of hours lol.. Basically it will never happen. Out of billions.. Even a million ppl doing something won't make a difference. That's less than 1%.. after thinking about "stats" n "facts"... I came to the conclusion.. No matter what we do, we will never be able to change the environment. The only thing to do is live and enjoy your life to the fullest.

@t7n7, that showroom Model S is not the production model. It is just a mockup of the real car. They have changed the exterior, so I bet interior will also be changed. Nobody knows what the production car interior will really look like in final product yet, not even Tesla engineers. Only thing we know for sure is that it has 17" touchscreen in the middle.

Admirable popsicle stick story while "enjoy your life to the fullest" smug as a Cadillac commercial. Being a dad, I don't enjoy life while discounting my 2 kids future with nature, biodiversity, drinking water.

I'm not all wrapped up in bling and techno fixes? that an additional $30k can buy. Too many energy inputs vs. energy output. Too much entropy.

Coming from a 30k Prius, I'm figuring the S interior will be more than adequate.

t7n7, Tesla has plainly said multiple times that the prototype interior has little in common with the final product other than the infotainment screen. The signature will have leather seating or even upgraded leather seating. There will be power seats though that did spark discussion at an early point. This is all that has been stated clearly and consistently.

I hope the interior is less of a work in progress than that of the early Roadsters. I hope that I do not need to after market anything.

@Peak Oil Bruin.
With regards to energy input and outputs. More or less, when you consider all the energy inputs that go into manufacturing a car, it's less than 100 gigajoules (in the case of the Model S, the aluminum frame it what really costs alot of energy to produce), a similar steel car is about half of the energy requirements- if the model S is expected to last 2 times as long as normal car, this is a zero gain. With that being said, the model S will consume less than 200 gigajoules/life while the other car is around 1300. It's not really the manufacturing that causes the bulk of the energy usage, it's going from point A to point B (even the model S requires about 2 times the manufacturing energy)

It's also not entirely fair to compare the interior of car with a 57k base price to one with a 95k base price.

To be honest, when I sat in the Prototype, it was extremely comfy, the back seats hugged you as you sat in them.

The door handles will have a pop out feature as you described in the Karma, but more like how an Aston works so a bit better.

With regards to the rest, a lot of that will likely be modifications for the final production line only so to save on manufacturing costs in the beginning, keeping cheap stuff for HVAC and then jazzing it up later on, or be upgradeable for final productions (4-zone climate controls in rear).

But time will only tell, and I hope that they do change some of the stuff you mentioned. Just the final touches is all the S needs.

The Karma is a Very Sexy 4 door 4 passenger super sport sedan.
I am impressed with the product. I really like the 2 door hard top convertible. It is a real 4 passenger Hybrid SL.

Check link on: http://magazine.windingroad.com/issue/68/

Re the S prototypes, the Scots have a saying:
"Fools and bairns shud nae see unfinished work!" (Bairns means children, infants.)

It has the distinctive Joker grin, doesn't it?

I was very excited when I first heard about Karma a few years ago: it will bring hybrids out of the niche into the mainstream, proving that the technology is mature, taking away the stigma of driving a fuel-efficient car, having a great performance and luxury, a major stepping stone towards petrol-free cars...

Then I discovered Tesla and Model S: It is all that Karma wants to be. Except it is not a stepping stone, but the goal itself.

Karma is mislabeled as EV-ER, same as the Volt. It is as much an EV as the diesel-electric locomotives that have been in service for many decades - nobody calls them EV-ERs. It is a petrol-electric vehicle, serial hybrid, just like the locomotives.

Karma retains the complexity of the ICE, combining it with the simplicity of the all-electric drive. Several years ago that was a venerable goal, but now the ICE part is unnecessary. And not even talking about pollution: the ICE maintenance, the inherent ICE problems, the ICE limitations, the dependency on imported oil, etc - are carried over to Karma.

Anyway - I hope they are successful. It is still an exciting car and will raise awareness that there are alternatives to 100% petrol-dependent motoring.

Um - the above should have read:

Karma retains the complexity of the ICE, combining it with the simplicity of the all-electric drive in a luxury high-performance car.

Who hit the Delete key?

Though the Karma is an extremely beautiful, expensive hybrid, it is marred by its Alfred E. Neuman grin grill. Long live MAD!


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