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Wireless Charging

I can't help but think that WiTricity and Tesla would go together pretty well. This would eliminate the need to have a plugin (mostly). I am little surprised there is not more discussion regarding this application since WiTricity is actively seeking out OEMs. Since some power might be lost 5-10%, this would make charging more expensive, but I think it would be pretty useful.

Is this a plug for wireless? {jk}

Hey, Nicola Tesla did it 100 years ago.
All I can think of is that Tesla Motors cannot afford to signup with a company that is going to have issues. Whether or not WiTricity will have issues is certainly a question. Even more important (from my viewpoint) is that wireless transmission of power has been around for a LONG time, there just hasn't been any application until now.
If I had to bet, Elon is doing his own version. Think about it. Tesla did it, and now...supercharging stations. Stations? Like in "radio stations?". I envision a letter. Written by Mr. Musk offering a "retro-fitting of all customer's Tesla cars for $9000. Call us!"
The conversion of supercharging stations towards taking solar collected power and transmitting it over the electro-magnetic spectrum is DEFINITELY coming. Just a matter of time....

Wireless power is not very efficient, you gain good enough efficiency only at very short distances (like less than half a meter).

Tesla (the person) didn't do what WiTricity does (magnetic resonance coupling), that's quite new invention in that area of technology. It requires alignment of the coils so that they face each other properly so not only distance, but also which way they are "pointing" affects the efficiency, but with proper alignment you can transfer energy at greater distance efficiently than without resonance coupling. This makes possible to build charging "roads" (slow roads work better than fast ones, busy intersections and that sort of things, those are expensive to construct so extra cost of chargers doesn't show that much. Other good one are parking lots, no cables = no vandalism and no hassle).

Timo is right. Resonant magnetic coupling has elements within it that protect the purchaser of electricity from being "hacked" by their neighbors. If they hadn't created this "inferior" version of what Nikolai Tesla built in 1899, well...they'd probably go the way of Tesla when JP Morgan figured out he couldn't make money with Tesla's model. Marin Soljačić, Ph.D. is the real brains behind Witricity's model, and in truth, to take Tesla's ideas, and then build an architecture around them that will still enable Utility Companies to charge individuals (rather than seeing the entire DC model fall apart) is interesting. Further, I've always felt that if someone did "rebuild" what Tesla built, with the integration of modern Solid State Electronics and computer management, well...truthfully, I've always thought that GENERAL ELECTRIC and their Minions would press the FCC to have them say "We, the unholy FCC, do not see this as safe, and therefore it will not be licensed". Is it true? No. That would be pure BS x 100. But, it does show us the path, doesn't it? Resonant Coupling is actually patented by Witricity, but there is a little thing called "eminent domain" that I am sure Mr. Musk has already looked at. Why do you think that he built Solar City and Space X? Google Wireless Energy Transmission. Google Wireless Space Energy. Nikolai Tesla may be dead, but you can't keep a good man down. Witricity is not "realistically"'a potential Strategic Partner of Tesla Motors. Let that goofy idea go to Audi, who was quick to do a deal with Witricity. The reality is that Witricity is an "education" on what kind of framework is workable for Tesla Motors. Not using Witricity's patents, but clearly, eminent domain over-rules patents. And there are plenty of other "flavors" of Nikolai Tesla's original innovations that can be tapped into that are "superior" to what Witricity is going. It is very revealing though, about "what is around the corner" that is... Mr. Musk, walk quietly as I know you will. But in the future folks, this is why Tesla is such a good investment. Stop thinking about hoses to gas pumps and ridiculous frameworks of AC transmission using "new cables that must be layed", I mean really. Why lay cables that have already been layed? Can anyone say "Global Crossing"? How about "Variable algorithmic data compression" models used for energy transmissions? Hey, the old IXNET of Global Crossing wanted to build a Fiberoptic Grid and sell it (and this make me laugh) in a similar way that the old "Enron" model was supposed to work. Beware of BS folks, but is coming...and the power companies are playing chess with patents and legislation to protect their enslavement of the majority of the global population to a "Pay us or no electricity" model that Nikolai was so passionate about not seeing happen. Elon: "Encoded AC wireless transmissions" using variable algorithmic data compression with key encryption, accessible only by licensed receivers retrofitted into your auto products. I think I deserve a free Model S SS AWD for that little tip....Mitchell?

Automatic wireless charging for existing electric vehicle classes: golf carts, industrial vehicles.
Automatic wireless charging for future hybrid and all-electric passenger and commercial vehicles, at home, in parking garages, at fleet depots, and at remote kiosks.
Direct wireless power interconnections to replace costly vehicle wiring harnesses and slip rings.

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@TV, Nikola, not Nikolai.

About your suggestions of using "Variable algorithmic data compression" for energy transfers; doable but really really stupid. I give you one guess why.

Yea, you're right on his name. I've got that bad cold/flu that is all over the country. I just can't seem to kick it.

Ok, I'll bite. Why? Is it because you don't think I understand the fundamental differences between "data" and "energy", or is it because I didn't adequatedly describe the theoretical feasibility of using passworded rolling key encryption to initiate and measure IP Multicast (sparse dense mode-"back and forth") transmissions of packets to properly calibrate the amounts of energy requested and recieved? It would be kind of similar to the counters we have watched while we pump the gas into our tanks. Before: No pay, no gas. AC? No key, no juice. It is very possible, and I don't understand your condescension. I was teaching this stuff 20 years ago before anyone had even heard of "the cloud"...

Further, broadcast is not secure, as well as being inefficient. Take a look at the technology behind "HyperFeed Technologies", which I led to an IPO 15 years ago. "The Fastest datastream in the world".
I used to show those "black boxes" beating Michael Bloomberg's T-1 speeds by 30 seconds on the open and close. A marketmaker's dream. But if you didn't integrate something like that to calibrate the usage, the big boys would shoot it down by the fact of who they are and what they can do. It seems like you do know what I am talking about. If you want to have a discussion, let me know. Thanks.

Mr. Timo Sir?
That's wireless (RF) and has been for 20 years. Real-time Market Quotes in a handheld portable device. In "Real-time"? How? Compress it, and don't pull in a "broadcast" (ugh), use "request/send" and the cloud w/packets.

uh, Timo...? > Radio Frequency (RF) with Variable Algorithmic Data Compression to permission and quantify "with greater EFFICIENCY in REAL TIME???

Gee...what does all this mean? It means you can casually type in a Customer number into your handheld portable device, and that will sync an encrypted passcode to the Supercharging Station, thereby dispensing AC Power in a calibrated fashion through the marraige of packeted compressed data ("electronic boxcars") transmitted in IP Multicast to continually permission and quantify the dispersement of AC Power to the specified receiver (in your car). Broadcast vs. Multicast. Broadcast vs. PACKETS over the cloud. I was beta-testing a Motorola (wireless) Phone in 1999. I was on a Bart Train watching Ronin in > 30 FPS. People were in shock. You see, the USA has technological bottlenecks, and Oracle began the campaign towards fixing them years ago. The delivery/speed issues with our proprietary IP Multicast with VADC are what led to viable 4G networks. Yep.

Wireless Power only over short distances? I'm not going to break down all of the inherint "one dimensional" misunderstandings behind that commment. Anyone ever heard of Wimax. pretty old stuff, just a question to stimulate thought.

Oh...and before everyone runs out to file a process patent,its been done. So relax and enjoy the ride. Elon is a 3-dimensional thinker...I'm sure he is already on this.

So who's "stupid" now Timo?

Anytime you want to compare PHDs and Bios, let me know.

@TV Is it because you don't think I understand the fundamental differences between "data" and "energy"

Apparently that. Efficient wireless energy transfer can be done only on very short distances. It also requires "antennas" that are resonance coupled which means no variable frequencies. It isn't same as data transfer.

zoom...right over your head.

Right comment, wrong direction TV

Timo, the mantra of Witricity's Dr. Marin Soljacic is good for what it is, but it also takes us further down a technological bottleneck. Unfortunately, current government regulations limit the amount of power that can be transmitted, so we are forced to stay in the dark ages on this subject. In the United States and Canada the maximum is 4 Watts EIRP. So until REAL technology is used for "the good of the masses", and legislation stops blocking real technology, debating the subject is really "time wasted".

And as for you Vawlkus, you're not even really on the same planet are you? How can you really expect to understand Physics and energy/data transmissions over the Electromagnetic Spectrum with an electronics technician handbook and a Star Trek communicator? You're not fooling anybody. So, when Nova Scotia finally warms up, go outside, and get some fresh air.

And before you throw a temper tantrum, I'm not listening. Infact, is anyone listening to you? Besides your cat I mean...


Those government regulations you refer don't apply to wireless charging.

I don't mean to sound blunt, but you really don't seem to know what you are talking about. If you really have PHD in that area I suggest you take a bit time to catch up where this tech is currently going. Otherwise you sound like a old teacher stuck in past and more than little bit crazy.

Are we talking about smart asphalt?

Among other things.

I have heard about roads on which we can drive our Electric Vehicles, and which will charge our Electric Vehicles while we are driving on these roads. Sounds fantastic. I did not know that this ever could be for real. But who knows what will happen in 2040?

This thread proves once agin that self-important degree-brandishing academics are (a) impractical idiots, (b) insufferable, and (c) will never have enough money to buy a luxury car anyway. Instead they waste everyone's time....

I suggest we enthusiasts set some standard of respect when engaging other enthusiasts, at least on Elon's forum. His forum is not enriched with a bunch of people insulting each other like the Jerry Springer show. If you want to engage in insults, John Peterson will be happy to oblige you over at Alpha. He's very good at fallacies and emotional attacks unrelated to good discourse and discussion. This thread was very interesting until the insults started flying. Tesla's forum should be a place where people are not afraid to present thoughts or ideas and any critiques should be constructive, not destructive.

You know, I'm really sorry. If you look back, this whole thing started when I was corrected for incorrectly calling Nikola Tesal "Nikolai", and then...I was called STUPID. Right out of the blue.

Yes, I went on the offense, because I don't like being called stupid. And now it seems I'm the guy to attack. Ok. Fine. I do apologize. I am excited about what Tesla is doing, and my background is in data transfer. I don't know everything about everything, and I probably said too much. So please forgive me, and I'll forgive the everyone else. And I am saying goodbye to this forum. Seems I don't fit in, and that's ok. Bye guys.

FWIW, I didn't call you stupid, I called your idea stupid. There is a difference. I thought reason for that would have been so obvious to you that after you think about it your response would have been "doh, how didn't I see that?". We all make mistakes, sometimes stupid mistakes.

Those things you said about Vawlkus were very bad and very much unwarranted, so for that I will not miss you. Be well and be gone.

OK people, let's talk about the future of charging an Electric Vehicle.

A special kind of paint is being developed. This paint has got the ability to turn sunlight into electricity (just like solar panels). This could be extremely helpfull for all Electric Vehicles. Because the car will be charging itself during daylight. I think this is a great idea. Don't you think so?

No. Not enough sunlight falls on a car body to make any appreciable difference. Paint has a hard enough job being good paint, without turning it into an electrode.

OK, too bad.
Maybe in 2050.

Same error as one previous poster made. It isn't about tech being insufficiently advanced to be useful, it is Sun being weak source of power.

The sun is a weak source of power?

Well, I heard that if we could absorb the energy of the sun of only 1 day, then we would have enough energy for the consumption of all the people on this planet for a whole year. Knowing this, I wouldn't call the sun a weak source of power.

But maybe I have misunderstood what you really meant to say.

Earth is kinda large place. You don't want to cover entire planet to get that power, do you?

If we cover entire planet with nuclear power plants (assuming we have the fuel for them) we would have that same energy in fraction of a second.

Let's stick to the sun.
Let's not talk about nuclear power plants.

Can you explain why you think that the sun is a weak source of power? Because I did not realy understand what you meant by that (sorry for that).

All the sun's power falling on a car could move it a few miles per day. The sun's power is "dilute" -- spread out. And inconstant (day, weather, season). Not the characteristics of a base dispatchable reliable power source. Very expensive to compensate for those things.

Benz, if you want to get enthusiastic about something workable, check out . It could "save the world" in 5-10 years. Really. For cheap. Really cheap.

@Brian H
I have seen the video on YouYube. Under the video is written: ".... exciting overview of current technologies and a promise of the cheap, free, safe and clean energy awaiting for us in a near future."

Now, I am not a science guy. I do not understand much of it. But I heard that it's possible to produce electricity with a "Garage Use 5 MW Generator (Clean, Inexpensive, Safe, Compact)". That sounds great for large size vehicles like ships.

Do you think that if this "Focus Fusion Energy Technology" becomes reality, it can be used to charge an EV (if one would have such a machine in the garage)?

And should Elon Musk get involved with this people to join forces? Maybe it can be useful for Tesla Motors and SpaceX as well?

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