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40kwh Battery Degradation?

Has there been any official information about how battery degradation works on the software limited 60kwh battery? For example, if the software limits the battery to 2/3 of the capacity of the battery, there will be degradation. If the software limits to 40kwh, there should be no degradation.

Yeah, 40s are weird, and should be ignored. ;p

I brought my 40 in for some issues on being range. They kept it for several day to balance the pack. The also needed to drive off the 200 miles and i would guess cycle it twice. I got back up to about 130 rated miles just after charge stops from what was about 120. Or some 120 ideal to 149.

While this is not yet acceptable, I was also assured an upcoming software release will add some miles to the 40. They did not seem to know how many more.

They are still not changing their position on discounting the unlock to a 60 to "keep thing fair" but this argument becomes less valid over time. I figure with pickup of the car, car rental for 3-4 days, labor, drop odd of the car 2-3 time a year to balance a 40 battery will end up costing them $2000-$3000/year which really does not make much sense.

Now I know the issue and the answer, I intend to have them fix this issue every tire rotation or 2-3 times a year.

So is the battery balancing an acceptable answer for now? It's a 10 miles gain from just 2 full cycling/balancing. What would happen if the SC balance your battery pack even further?

I needed 7 range charges/balancing to regain 6 miles. It seems the SC did a better job with your S40 then I did with my S60.

Murray: Your right, I think that Tesla will get the word. I am having my MS40 balanced during annual checkup. Down to 128/6000 miles. Hope to get 10 miles back. SC won't commit to a number.

Tesla should remove software limitation once a quarter to allow owners to re-balance there batteries. S40 owners are carrying the extra weight of the S60 battery pack which still upsets me a bit. Not only are we software limited we are limited by the physics of extra weight of S60 pack.

My 40 is now rated range 122, with 11300miles. I was advised by service that a new update will give us more rated range miles. SOON???? Like the center consoles are on hold??
I also lose 6-8 miles while car is parked at work,about 9 hours, temperature 72 degrees.
No mention from service, about "rebalancing " the battery pack??

@mathew98, having the service center balance my battery 2 or 3 times a year, letting strangers put over 1000 miles on my car annually, is definitely not acceptable to me. If balancing is the solution, it is both moronic and petty not to allow owners themselves to periodically gain access to the full 60kwh, as @robgoodin suggests.

Of course, max range charging is contrary to Tesla's official recommendations for battery health, so it would be nice if they were updated to include occasional range charges, if that is what is currently required to maintain the range we were promised.

Also would be nice if they gave some indication of when this new software release might be coming, with an indication of what it might be doing to alleviate this problem.

Also would be nice, if after 6 weeks from when Jerome Guillen told me he would look into my concerns, I had received some meaningful information. All I've heard so far (a month ago in response to my post on this forum) is that this issue has been raised with Elon and that they are working real hard to provide a superior ownership experience. Or something to that effect.

I'm not grumpy or unhappy or anything like that. Not me.

@mbergman - I totally understand your POV.

Isn't the official stance to not to keep the car at a 100% charge state for a prolong period of time (stationary)? I don't think there is anything wrong with max charges as long as your car doesn't stay at state for very long.

Max charges are for occasions where a longer trips are expected. I always drive off within an hour of max charging the car. Heck, I even schedule charging to end within an hour of the expected morning drive.

I'd be interested in the upcoming release that would give 40 or even 60/85 owners better estimates for a full tank. That would resolve a lot of griefs regarding the accuracy of the Rated range estimate.

@matthew98 - "Isn't the official stance to not to keep the car at a 100% charge state for a prolong period of time (stationary)?"

I was curious (haven't looked at the manual for quite a while) so I checked.

Manual says -

For daily driving, charge
between 50% and 90% to improve battery
longevity. Charge above 90% for trips requiring
maximum range.

Nothing, as far as I can see, regarding not leaving it at 100% for too long, so I don't think that's the official Tesla stance.

Appreciate your continuing support.

I agree with @murraypetera. The argument to not discount the upgrade to 60kWh does not hold water. Over the next few months, most of us 40's will have owned our car for a year. Those who purchased a 60kWh paid $10,000 more but have enjoyed the used of the longer range for this entire year. 60kWh owner bought their car because they wanted the range. There isn't one 40kWh owner who reserved their car thinking that we'd get a 60kWh battery and would one day be offered the chance to upgrade at a price lower than $11,000.

Also, our batteries are now a year older, more degraded so there is less of a reason to charge us the full pop to upgrade. Honestly, do you really think Tesla will get complaints from existing 60kWh owners if Tesla allow the 40's to upgrade at a lower price, say $5000? No way. They will get complaints from any 40's who have already paid full price for the upgrade but I suspect you could count those people on one hand. Tesla is missing out on an enormous amount of free revenue and the longer they wait, the less free revenue Tesla will receive.

5.9 just out. I gained 10 miles 127 to 137 rated. rock and roll.

I just upgraded to 5.9 and had 139 rated miles after a charge. Right before 5.9, a full charge was getting me to 120 rated. When I first got the car in July 2013, it was at 147 rated. I have been concerned as it got down to 120. Hopefully I won't see weekly decreases as I have in the past. With the 40, every mile lost hurts more.

I'm also getting 140 just after charging with 5.9! Was in the 120-122 rated range in the morning.

This last weekend, I was going to go a 100 mile round trip, but with the hills, I reverted back to the ICE. Even with the site, I wanted to be sure, but now it looks safe to try.

Are you aware the charge limit changed ? Before 5.9, it is 72%. But with 5.9, it looks like 68% now ? But definitely, rated miles got increased.

I, too, got a nice increase from 124 to 136 miles. Does anyone know what the cushion is under zero miles? I thought I read that is was about 10 more miles, not sure.

15-17 miles in reserve. Don't tempt fate and get stranded...

vincent1001, where did you get that info from?

My 40 gained 11 miles (from127 to 138). Prior to v5.9 the car would lose about 5-7 miles overnight while plugged in, and v5.9 has eliminated the overnight loss.

While plugged in, the car/battery can now be heated or cooled without losing miles.

I like the other v5.9 improvements:

Hill-hold works very well. I was surprised to appreciate it so much.

We now have full control of the lowering feature. I anticipate this will increase tire life.

The High and Very High settings are now useful at higher speeds. Good for light snow, dirt roads, etc.

Overall, I'm very pleased with v5.9.

Be aware the actual range may be unchanged, just reported differently.

@Barryfinn, I see it from charging bar both my vehicle and tesla app. There is a line for max 40/60 can charge. It looks like changed from above 70% to below 70%.

I noticed that the range indicator goes green/yellow at 41 miles rated range left now.

@vincent1001: yes, I noticed the charge limit change from 72% to the 67-68% range as well. Odd that the charge limit was lowered but the rated miles on full charge increased. I do wonder if the buffer below zero miles was reduced as part of the v5.9 changes.

I'll also confirm the increase in range to 135 (from around 121). What a relief! Thank you Tesla for reaffirming my faith. This has been the one area I've been disappointed in. The service manager telling me that "don't worry, the range is still there" was not the satisfactory response he seemed to think it was.

Keep in mind, though it seemed that he was correct, it was almost unusable information. Even IF I wanted to tempt fate by driving under 0 miles remaining, the car's acceleration becomes limited when the charge is almost depleted so I've been limited to low acceleration unnecessarily during those times. I'm curious to see if the acceleration will be limited at the same mileage as before (which I never noted down) or will it be changed to compensate for the additional displayed miles.

Same here. My range went up to 135 from 124. Also hill hold is really nice.

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