I'm not even sure if this is possible. I thought I'd check with Tesla if there is interest from anyone.... not looking to make much, maybe just a little something to justify parking $5k to reserve one for the past couple of years.
Since Tesla won't allow you to "sell" your slot consider the following:
Find a buyer
Do a CYA contract to sell a 0 mile S.
Allow buyer to pick options.
Take deliver and immediately do a transfer of ownership.
Note the buyer would not be entitled to the tax credit (and you should include that in the CYA contract).
Order a base model S for $57500.
Buyer would pay you $62500 so you get your $5000 deposit back and up to $7500 tax credit.
The tax saavy could set it ~$60000ish and make a little money.
Tesla and the IRS have no say...at least the way I read the tax credit, which goes to the original buyer. Even if the tax credit can be filed by the buyer adjust the selling price up to what you would like to make.
Well, at least in CA, the ultimate buyer would have to pay sales tax again too. The double tax would hurt a bit.
That doesn't work. The $5000 and $7500 both come off the ultimate purchase price; there's an unpaid balance of $52,500 you'd need to pay TM on delivery, with the $7500 coming back to you at tax time. Since the tax rebate comes to you, you're selling a car costing you $50,000. Any additional that you charge is profit.
There may also be a problem with the warranty fine print. Some warranties only apply to the first, original owner. The car would technically be a "used" car (may also affect resale value), unless you can take the role of a car dealer. I don't know what that involves.
A little off subject but, I read that there was consideration of turning the tax credit into a flat rebate so people would not have to wait for the tax credit to happen. Anyone else know anything about this?
I had heard that was for leased cars only.
Couple points. Rebate would apply to all new vehicles with batteries sold to original purchaser only. Refund is based on KWH size. Government year starts Oct 1, so the earliest this would then apply is Oct 2012. It was not well received by Congress and may have a tough time in an election year.
<< Since Tesla won't allow you to "sell" your slot.....>>
Are you sure? A prior post referencing the relevant portion of the Tesla agreement stated that transfer was contingent upon approval by an "authorized Tesla official". That doesn't sound like a flat no to me.
Yeah but I'm sure that's to perhaps leave open the possibility of transferring a reservation into the name of another family member or some other special circumstance. I'm sure that Tesla does not simply want people to be able to sell (and profit from) their reservations willy-nilly.
Considering that in the EU they have no legal right to restrict transfers, I'd think they might need to get used to the idea.
Are you sure they have no legal right to restrict transfers in the EU ? Remember it's not goods we are talking about, what you get for your $5k is an OPTION to buy a car. Much like a stock option actually.
It seems to me unlikely the warranty will be limited to the original buyer, since such a policy would depress the resale value of the car, which in turn reduces the value of the new car sale. A non-issue when there are more new buyers than cars, but shortsighted if one assumes the market for electric cars will become more competitive over time. Anyone with an early reservation should certainly be able to obtain some value for that in a hot market by contracting with a third party to resell the car to that third party for a price that will satisfy both.
silenus136, whether it's unlikely or not, you should definitely read the fine print before making assumptions in this regard. We don't even have Tesla's warranty terms and conditions yet for the Model S, but you may want to have a look at those for the Roadster (for your own country, different markets have different conditions), just to be sure.
If anyone is interested in purchasing my signature, let me know. I am sig 1015. I will order the car the way you want it. The cost will be $150,000.00 for regular sig and $160,000.00 for sig performance.Call me to discuss the details. 219-841-2362.
lgagliardi, please excuse my curiosity: Why exactly are you selling your Model S, and what will you drive instead?
My work environment seems to be changing. I currently own 6 vehicles so I have plenty to drive. If I would be able to sell, I would just get right back in line for a P model S. I want the sig but just thought I would put this out there to see if there is demand.
lgagliardi, I understand. Also, that kind of explains your suggested price: You are ready to give up your valuable Sig slot only if there is some margin for you to be made. Very understandable, I have been wondering myself for how much I would be willing to give up my EU P#3 and get back in line immediately. That would require some significant margin for sure, but not outrageous. I'll be watching closely, keep us posted!
Tesla reps have told me they are not going to allow transfers of slots except for family members. We have U.S. P 431 which we may not use. We also have Sig 273, and are debating buying both. Similar to Igagliardi, I would sell one (the production car in this case) for a similar premium. You would pay, I would order the car to your specs and get it delivered to you in the U.S. Email if you are interested and we can discuss details: harry-at-execpc.com
I've heard of someone in the Bay Area willing to legally change his name for a WWDC ticket, maybe the buyer of the spot can do the same? ;)
I've got US Sig #802 and US P #6372. I can't really afford the Sig, and actually prefer the blue or green to any of the available sig colors. But I don't want to wait another year for my car. I'm wrestling with endless scenarios that occur to me.
Should I buy the Sig and drive it til I can get the standard model, then if I can break even selling my Sig, downgrade? If that's the case, am I likely to be better off getting the PerfSig for resale? Even bigger risk there. Maybe Tesla will tell me percentage of the first 800 that were standard vs. performance so I can decide which is rarer.
What about my one time deferral? How long would I have to wait for a 60KW production model? end of line? one of the first 60KW cars? What if I go 85kW? Can I even defer a Sig res and get a non-sig?
MandL, this is no advice and I cannot be held liable, but my gut feeling says that deprecation of resale value of the Sig will be larger than the difference between the Sig and the P at the time your P number is drawn. If you want to get the best value for money/least deprecation, there is no way around waiting for the P. The Sig will deprecate very fast and only after years may accrue some collector's value -- but only if you don't drive your car and have it garaged, and even then it's a gamble. The Sig premium is for bragging rights. As soon as your P number comes up, that premium is -- puff -- gone and cannot be regained on resale. Bragging rights are non-transferable... ;-)
In other words, wishful thinking aside, I cannot believe you will be able to make/save any money by downgrading later. The only things you get that way is a brand new car and the color you want, but the premium on the Sig is sunk either way.
Just my 2c.
I really prefer the Sig Red and the "white" interior. None of the other colors appeal to me. For me, it’s worth the premium to have a color I love rather than a "meh...it'll do" color. But, since I have a fairly high P# I planned to working on learning to like blue or green.
But, recently I was told by a showroom rep that custom colors are coming available in 2013. I think that it's worth waiting a couple extra months to have a successful long term relationship with the car. I understand that the Sig Red will still not be an option but maybe I can get a richer version of Red. I think it will be worth the wait.
@Volker.Berlin - "puff"
brianman, thanks. :-) I am learning something new every day in these forums. You're right, that's what I meant. Looking up "poof" also reveals a British slang meaning of this word, which I explicitly do not imply!
I'm assuming that there some people with plenty of money who will "discover" Tesla over the next year or two and not be willing to wait three months to get a car from the manufacturer, or longer if there is still a waiting list. I'm sure Tesla would be very happy to maintain a 4-6 month standing order list.
Obviously there are already at least 1000 people willing to pay some premium to get their Model S early. It's not inconceivable that there will be people at least as impatient a year from now that would be happy to have a lovingly maintained low-mileage Signature at original cost rather than wait in line with everyone else. Especially once they've had an opportunity to ride in it. Or watched it zoom by in an HOV lane or park next to their old world MB at the country club.
Of course, I'm telling myself this story, but I know VB is just as likely to be right. For that matter, there is always a chance Tesla will pull a Fisker and every one of us will be out $100K
I have a Model S Signature Performance reservation # below 75, with estimated delivery ~8 weeks from now, in the first production run. I am willing to consider selling the car (or, with Tesla's blessing, the reservation) due to a change of heart.
Before the trolls attack, note that I'm a loyal Roadster owner who has spent all day hand-wringing over whether I want to sell the Model S I've been looking forward to for almost 2 years. My garage is full, and I would reeeeally love to play with the toy I've been waiting for, but I am going to go with logic over emotion in this case.
It is configured black paint, black leather, piano black trim. MSRP $97,900 + tax.
If Tesla does not allow a transfer pre-sale, you would purchase from me directly in Los Angeles.
If you have a serious interest, please leave me a message with your offer at 310-997-0263, and I'll return your call. (The tax credit may not transfer to you, so please take that into account.) Thanks!
I'd be interested. I have a late Signature production number (#1118) and I'd be interested to swap or buy a number below 500. email@example.com
See poll @
Per Elon at All Things D...after tomorrow's, around June 20 is next (presumably the "fifth" in the trilogy)
10,000 kms , in 70 days and no problems
When is it expected that improvements will be made to the audio interface. For instance, now when it shows tracks as they are playing from my iPhone, it...
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