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AWD Model S

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but anyone hazarding a guess about how long it will be before we have an AWD Model S? It would be freaky fast to 60 with two motors, and the AWD combined with the low CoG would make it limpet-like. The weird bit of the frunk that is tucked under the dash looks like it is ready and waiting to be filled with the 2nd motor.

Would make a BMW M5 look like a bus.

Can I reserve one now, please?

Vawlkus, I simply don't know, but I think it is conceivable that Tesla doesn't care at all whether someone chooses a Model X or Model S, as long as s/he buys one of those instead of ICE competition, and becomes a satisfied Tesla customer.

I think assuming that people buy the X mostly because it is AWD is a bit wrong. Actual Model X sales in 2 years time will prove me right or wrong (we'll see the mix between RWD and AWD). I think the first thing most people look in the Model X is a good family hauler (and also the feeling of security it bring to "soccer moms").

For me AWD is attractive mostly because I own a house in the mountains, and have been stuck on my way up or sometimes in my stip drive way couple of time (yes even with proper winter tire). I don't want nor need a big family hauler, but would still like an AWD sedan. Tesla will not win me as X customer, but will miss on selling me a additional option and do some more margin.

Maybe that is a European thing, but in here the AWD sedan (Audi quattro) market is pretty good and falls right in the Model S market segment.

Now I just hope the good weight distribution and TC of the Model S will be good enough not to get stranded again on a snowy hill :-)

ManuVince, one of the big differences between the US market and European market is that the US market does not have a fuel efficient AWD vehicle. We can not get an AWD diesel vehicle that is not meant to pull a 747. You Europeans have tons of AWD diesel options that get 40+ mpg. this has frustrated me to no end over many years - so sorry about the rant.

But as you say the weight distribution should help a lot. This has been discussed in other threads more. The RWD roadster for example does very well in snow and ice and can even go up hills on the stuff. From what I have heard from other members, they plan to supply the Canadian market with winter tires. Hopefully this means the US and European markets will get them too.

Know I'm really reaching on this one but it would be HUGE if they included AWD in the signature! How would that silence all those that feel they should receive extra for plunking down their 40K!

lgagliardi@worl...

+1

AWD a surprise for the launch !

That would be fantastic!

In case Tesla's listening...

If you offer it as an last-minute option on the Signature, I'd likely have *no* problem paying $5k (and maybe $10K) extra for it.

Here we go, another saddle leather thread.

I would have a problem paying and extra $5 - 10k for it, but I would make it work somehow. That's because I'm seriously worried that I won't be able to drive in the ice this year, or at least, I'll have to avoid hills, which means I'll be stuck in a small area of my city, lol.

Anyways brian, if it's not something they've already planned, don't hold your breath. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it in a future year model, but adding the option now at the last minute is not very realistic.

I feel they have time to add it but believe they will not BUUUUT they should!!! I would way prefer it to be free for sig but would pay 5K- 10K not so sure. The additional pain I would feel paying 10K added to the original pain of paying for a sig might just be too unbearable!:)

I would think they would have to re-crash test the vehicle with this engine added in front.

Good point Sudre_

Heh, there's not a prayer they'll consider it for 1.0 but that's not going to stop me from baiting them with cash. :P

TM’s product roll out to me seems appropriately aggressive – they have the necessary capacity in their SOCAL plant to deliver a multitude of models to meet all the premium market expectations and to expertly produce more middle market products. In terms of
AWD Premium models I feel this market is already well defined. Just look at the models that have already been well received in terms of sedans and SUVS offered by Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and the many premium Japanese & domestic models.

Most have migrated away from the various traction control iterations in favor of, a full or partial AWD technology. Which would be of particular interest, I would think, in an instant full torque drive-train, combined with ever so wide, tire contact patches.

Points being, I believe there will be successful markets for TM, in delivering products in both premium and mid-market sedans and SUVs, if they can offer them to the buying public within the already established market-prices for AWD systems, over RWD or FWD price premiums.

I personally am very pleased to see some Models S’s already delivered in my area!

For now, I will wait for more Supercharger roll-outs on the East-Cast before telling my community to go all in .. . and there I can help TM if they need….

--

@ADVOCATORY. A few points:
the factory is in Northern California (Fremont), not SOCAL.
AWD cars still rely heavily on traction control.
AWD cars are generally more costly than RWD or FWD (in the case of TM it needs two motors not one), and not everyone needs AWD.

I have never seen anyone cross-shopping SUV against sedan. So X and AWD S cater to different people. Liiok at BMW - long standing "RWD" is enough now is offering AWD in all models. Apparently enough people don't actually want X5

More options - more happy customers getting what they want....

Hopefully they will offer AWD on S for 2014....

Me, I want a convertible variant...

It would be awesome if, by the time I am in the market to PURCHASE the Model S, that they will offer an AWD option.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon, but I can dream :)

Now would actually be the perfect point to market an AWD Tesla S.
Model X will be delayed until 2015. A new S AWD would for sure give lots of press, publicity and guarantee that many would put down a sign on fee. I am even sure people gladly would put down twice as what Tesla gets for the S.

I do not by into the cannibalism theory that an AWD S would eat away the market for Tesla X. Those are 2 completely different cars. Look at Porsche. Sure the Cayenne was great, but they still launched Panarama. Because those models targets different buyers. Just like an AWD S would not steal customers away from the model X.

I hope that someone hi up in Tesla will give this a closer look. If they already know what to do with the front axel part for the X maybe they can hook that up on the S - after all the platform and the rest of the car is there already. Just waiting for that second engine.

I would gladly put down 20K right now if that would get me an AWD S.
And I would gladly pay 10-15 % more then a standard S. Should be a no brainer.
Give us an AWD S - and do it now.

My only initial reservation about the Model S was it's being a RWD car since I live in Connecticut. However, since owning one for 3 months now, I can tell you that it is NOT a problem. Handles as well as my old car (FWD). I assume the equal weight distribution of the Model S is the key (no heavy engine in the front). I am not so sure about the range that an AWD vehicle can achieve (2 motors to power).

I also depends on the rationale for the front motor. To improve the 'dry' performance of the car would require a second similar size motor/PEV, and good sized driveshafts, etc. However, to keep from getting stuck on snow or ice, one could use smaller, lighter components that may be cheaper as well as having less impact of efficiency. That said, I haven't had any difficulty during this exceptionally mild northwest winter, not have I had any trouble at all during prior, less mild winters in various other mid-engine rear wheel drive vehicles (Boxster, smart). Use of snow tires and careful driving technique helps considerably.

@ CarlE

AWD wouldn't necessarily effect range. The only hit it would take is through the weight gain.

Even if both motors produced 385hp (unlikely, but awesome to imagine) it wouldn't reduce the range unless you used the increased power through aggressive driving.

2 x 385 HP - just imagine the 0-60 mph times. Oh man.
Fastest one on the strip yet eco friendly enough to get you laid :D

Torst1, Hope the batteries would be able to provide enough power to do that. Sadly, I dont think it can yet.

I talked with an EV-guy the other day and according to him 2 motors would not cut the range in 2 like one would expect. In fact according to him 2 motors rather then 1 would hardly make any dent in the range at all. And he was certain that for normal every day driving one would see less then 5% hit in the range. In plain number that would be 480 kilometers with 1 engine like it is today, or an AWD version of model S with 4wd and a range of 456 kilometers. Tesla could easily make the second engine run just when needed. Kind of like when slippery, in heavy acceleration operations or en steep hills or cornering. All this could be controlled via sensors. And because on/off of an electric motor is blitzing fast that would probably outperform today's advanced systems like Haldex and others. Because they don't rely on a simple switch but some sort of mechanical operation to take place.

I will not even try to repeat the technical aspect of what he told me cause I do not know a lot about electricity, ohms law or other relevant fields for this subject. I focused on the why and how that I given you.

If someone that do have these skills drop by this thread feel free to enlighten us on why a dual engined 4wd Tesla model S would be doable without loosing more then 5% of battery range.

If someone know how to make a thread with a poll maybe we could do an unofficial poll to see if people are willing to pay more for a 4wd Tesla S then what todays version cost. I would gladly pay 10.000 $ more for a 4wd version. If it came to it I might even stretch as far as 15.000 $ for a dual engined Tesla Model S 4WD.

AWD should also make it possible to regen even more, by steep downhills or more abrupt stopping.

I don't have a Tesla S yet, but I expect to be wanting maximum regen, and use the brake only on occasions to "clear the rust off".

I really want a AWD option also, although I live in a place (Hong Kong) where it never snows (once, briefly, on a deserted mountain top, yes). I am still curious to find out if I ever need to use the brake on downhills, or can regen myself out of it. Regen, from downhills and braking is one thing an ICE will never get.

Would I take my Tesla S with AWD, once it's my turn? Depending on the price, and depending on delivery before or after the end of FRT waiver - I would if I could, yes indeed!

The battery cannot accept more regen than it currently gets. That's why the MS doesn't slow as hard as the Roadster.

@BrianH

You spend more time on this forum then I do, maybe you know something about what one could expect in battery life if Tesla was 4WD?

It wouldn't make much difference, since speed and accel wouldn't change materially, and 2 downsized motors would weigh only insignificantly more than 1 regular (about 130 lbs). AWD redistributes applied torque and power, it doesn't much increase it. The limiting factor in the end is the battery, anyway.

@BrianH

2 downsized motors? Who said downsize? :D
2 motors twice the power is my vote.

Or on more serious note I would hope that adding yet another motor would give some effects on the total HP output. That would make for even more impressive 0-60 times and leave Ferrari's, Porsche's and the like in the dust. Not to mention winning at all the lights no matter the weather.

Tesla S Awd truly a car for champions!


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