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Battery Swap Discussion

What happened to the following forum topic?

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/its-december-wheres-battery-swap

That link doesn't work for me, and it was a great discussion about the battery swap capability of the MS.

Attn. Moderators: I will delete my order if you guys are deleting posts that are negative to Tesla. Posts should only be deleted if they're obscene or inappropriate.

Trench is just where the high voltage conduits run to the superchargers the giant square is where the transformers and safety shutoffs are generally located.

Sorry this comment belonged on the next thread Gilroy expansion.

What is deleting an order?

Cancel an order? Because an unmoderated discussion forum topic was deleted by users?

Tesla doesn't need such neurotic owners.

We'll . . . More neurotic than it already has.

SamoSam - I would never in a million years delete/cancel an order if a forum topic was deleted by a user.

User cancelled--enuf said, I guess.

Sounds a bit like extortion to me. I'm sure that threat would be just enough for Tesla to be glad for you to delete your order just to not have to deal with 8 years of craziness at Service Centers.

Last time I looked at the thread, a number of folks were flagging it because of the OP's posting history...probably enough folks flagged it for it to get zapped.

I asked because the forum topic disappeared so I was hoping there was some logical explanation. It disappeared as soon as I went to login to reply.

I figured there were three possible choices.

A.) The user deleted it for some unknown reason.

B.) The user moved it to the owner only side. I used to have access to that until there was a mixup with my initial order, and I haven't bothered emailing them to get access. I was never really interested in the hidden section to begin with. It seemed like this section was a huge disservice to potential owners.

C.) A tesla moderator deleted/moved it.

Dallas - Perhaps, but the contents of the thread were really solid and were written by people who I have a lot of respect for.

I don't mind if it simply got flagged by a number of users.

But, you do have to understand that it feels like it's censoring.

omarsultan - I'm going to assume that what you said is correct, and I'll delete this thread.

I just didn't see that people flagged it as inappropriate. I didn't see anything inappropriate about it. Obviously I would never delete an order based on users behaviors.

DallasTXModelS - How can it be extortion if I only left one possible reason why I would. It's more like I don't agree with a companies business practices, and I delete the order as a result.

Seems pretty rational to me if that was indeed the case.

But, the users explained what likely happened and it seems plausible. I still don't like it, but that's how the forum software works.

No harm, no faul.

As a suggestion, sometimes it's better to start kindly and simply ask rather than starting by threatening, even though you really mean it. It might turn out that Tesla doesn't care if you are going to hold your breath 'til you turn blue and then you either look foolish or you have to go buy a BMW, which would suck.

redacted - Point taken.

Now I just need to figure out how to SEE how many times a post has been flagged. I just don't see where it shows that at.

The thread was about Tesla misleading customers about the Battery Swap capabilities. The fact that it was deleted made Tesla look doubly bad.

I took issue with it being deleted, and I could have asked nicely (and probably should have), but I felt like I needed something stronger.

I felt like it was completely inappropriate for the thread to get deleted. But, it happened likely as a result of automatically being deleted and not on purpose by someone at Tesla.

So I errored in my assumption, but I feel like the companies actions regarding the battery swap already put them in a position where I wasn't happy with them.

You might re-ask the question, perhaps it won't be down voted.

Battery swap has always seemed a bit iffy to me, I really can't see Tesla putting a $50,000 hold on your AMEX until you bring the temp battery back (hyperbole, perhaps) or that it would provide enough competition with a 20 minute, free supercharge for pretty much the same distance travelled, especially given the relative inventory expense (how to pay for a $50,000 battery at $60/shot) and the tetchiness of owners WRT their batteries (see forums). It seems like batteries would almost have to move to a rental model to make it work. And the radical success of the supercharger network has already provided a satisfying answer to range anxiety, which battery swap was intended to reduce.

But I'd never put it past Tesla to come up with something cool.

redacted - Ha yeah. Maybe I'll leave it up to see how many downvotes it takes. :P

Honestly, I absolutely hated the entire battery swap thing for all the reasons you mentioned. Especially when the superchargers was what really got me excited about the Tesla, and it took attention away from that.

But, then I believe it was Brian H that mentioned that it was really only done for additional tax credits, and it would never be an actuality (aside from the one beta test site).

The problem was that it started becoming this myth being perpetuated where people felt like Battery swap would become a very real thing. People started thinking they could get a 60KW and temporarily upgrade to an 85KW for trips. I couldn't help, but try to warn them of that miscalculation.

Now I've come to the conclusion that the entire battery swap demonstration itself was a really questionable decision. They never clearly demonstrated that the cars would have to be modified or just how incredibly difficult a battery swap would be in real life.

Was it really worth misleading customers for extra $'s on tax credits? I think it's going to come back to bite them when it was never really a good idea to begin with (aside from fleet vehicles).

The OP simply pointed out that battery swap was no longer featured on Tesla Motors' home page. The fact that the page about battery swapping is more readily reached than this forum seems to have eluded the OP. There was some decent conversation regarding the pros and cons of swap technology, but some clever detective work by an owner revealed the OP to be a vested troll who Tesla bashes on the financial fora. I know of 3 trolls in the 7 or so months I've followed the forum--this guy was the third. It takes 5-7 flags to kill a thread, but there is no way to quantify the number of flags outstanding.

Bighorn - But, I really wonder if that isn't the best way of handling it.

Sure the forum OP was a troll, but so many people in that thread took a lot of time and energy into writing really decent responses. Why delete their work?

Sometimes bad threads go good. This thread is absolutely my favorite thread of all time on these Tesla Forums. It's clearly a bad thread turned good. It makes Tesla look awesome.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/wow-guy-complete-nut-job-wrote-n...

The original title was edited so it was particularly bad at first.

or
D) forum members blasted it into the ether.

Not nearly as sensational as the TM theory, but more a likely option...

jjaeger - No, it's

E.) Hackers employed by Porsche hacked in and deleted the post on purpose to make Tesla look bad so they could steal my order.

Honestly I have no idea how I missed the obvious.

It's hard to say it was done ONLY for tax credits (nice article about it here though). Still, the government offers tax credits to encourage a behavior or the growth of a technology. It's perfectly reasonable for companies to take advantage of it.

@S4WRXTTCS

To flag a post or comment as inappropriate, click on the comment and a link that says "Flag as inappropriate" will show up just below the last line of the comment. Click that link and it will Flag inappropriate. If you change your mind you can chose the comment again and an "Undo flag" link will appear and you can click the link to unflag.

complete nuts... you can just flag a thread a couple of times then it gets removed automatically. don't think tesla has anything to do with removing threads except maybe removing that feature.

It is almost certainly as jjaeger said:

D) forum members blasted it into the ether.

@DallasTX - I know how to flag/unflag a post. What I don't know is how to view how many times it has been flagged.

Bighorn says it's not possible to see that

I thought omarsultan said he saw how many times it was flagged, but I think he was just referring to people saying they were flagging it (which I didn't catch).

@eddit - I don't think I've ever seen Tesla actually remover a thread. I'm not sure why I latched on it so hard. Maybe other companies do it, but so far Tesla has been evil free in that department.

@ tes-s

I'm still going with E.)

:P

It would be really ironic if someone at Tesla deleted this thread,

That would be funny.

I mentioned that as a viewpoint. I don't particularly subscribe to it. The business model is iffy at this point, and Tesla needs to establish whether the demand side of the equation is there before plumping in on the supply.

I also hear (?) the swap credit has been pulled back (in favour of hydrogen! of all inanities). Don't know if that's true or if it would/will make any difference.

The "keep your swap" option would certainly give some fascinating valuation data on batteries and their depreciation, etc., in any case.

Just ran across our buddy Alberto on the C&D website--certainly has an axe to grind on the topic. Being curious, I dug up this original post: http://doubtingisthinking.blogspot.com/2013/10/tesla-carbon-credits-ongo...

@P_D, I think you need to demand some sort of royalty payment from him, since your post is used to validate his claim that the battery swap is a scam.

On a side note, I guess we should pay attention to what we post on public threads lest things be taken out of context as was @P_D's post.

O

To qualify for the credit, swapping has to be possible, though not necessarily commercially attractive.

50-100 million dollars in ZEV credits is not chump change that Tesla to blow off when they can easily qualify.

The demo showed its doable, and I expect one pilot station next year to gather practical data.

I personally think this form of swap is a kluge, and will not ultimately get traction commercially.

Increasingly fast SuperChargers are a more elegant solution, and TM is pushing very hard on those.


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