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Buffett and BYD, the Chinese competitor

Warren is getting involved with BYD, whose e6 is going to enter the market here in 2012. Its range is about 185 mi., price ~$42K. 0-60 in 10 sec., seats 5. No competition, really, but they'll be able to supply large volume immediately, I'd think.

rootfiler, I sure don't have answers to these complex issues but seems that some corporation between the various elements involved in manufacturing, taxing policies, and everything else needs to get together and cooperate more here. We need our manufacturing base badly. Sure don't have anything against profit, as I said before I like hope. Profit has driven one of the most altruistic systems in existence for many years. So just talk with these companies and say come on back home guys you can still make a buck in the USA and to the countries that do practice fair trade with us try to keep this going and show them our appreciation here through various means.

And to very honorable president Lincoln's statement I will add something that directly affects Tesla Motors sales "You destroy the working class and you destroy the professional class{Tesla car buyers at the present}".

Isn't one of the most effective ways to protect local production heavy import tax, and tax relief for companies with local production?
At least as long as the market is big enough for the big corporations to care. If it's not, I don't think there's much u can do about them moving out.
Another way to compete with cheap labour abroad is effective production. Needing less labour for the same or bigger production.
Or simply not try to compete on price, but on quality, customer service and adaptability of the product to the buyers needs.
There are also the environmental issues of shipping various products and parts all over the globe instead of making them from local resources close to where they will be used.

People keep thinking if we tax the rich our deficit will go down but it will not...lower taxes causes higher collection of tax receipts as more people do better financially...higher taxes mean recessions and lower tax collections ultimately.

But the most important factor people forget is govt has to STOP growing/spending...they have to get out of the way just like our forefathers wanted...we dont need so many rules and regulations and such high taxes...govt wants to have more and more people dependent of them for "control"...govt already has 25-30% of the country dependent on them in one way or another....when the 16th amendment was originally passed, allowing govt to collect "income" taxes, it was meant for 2% of the population and the max tax rate was supposed to be look at what this law has mutated into...and many argue this amendment was never intended to tax our wages for labor, only capital gains ...some have taken their case to the Supreme Court arguing as such and have won.

How do we get out of this mess?
Cut taxes, shrink govt spending, shrink govt positions, decrease programs such as welfare/medicare and let the free mkts work...while this may sound harsh it is not...socialism doesnt work...whenever govt gets involved in anything there are inefficiencies, fraud, bureaucracy, bribery, etc. The govt loses money and that is a fact.

Only way I see how we pull of this mess and not default on our own debt like Greece and Ireland will, is to shrink govt spending and its programs, quit going to war over oil...spend the war money on research and infrastructure and re-newable energy...let co's like Tesla flourish...but we are working against the military-industrial complex and the lobbyists with all the money and power so Im not that all that hopeful really.

mact3333. Think your first paragraph has been repeatdly proven. Essential for government to work with individual companies and see how we cand induce them to come back and produce here. If its corporate taxes lower them. If its cutthroat companies following cheap labor slap a tariff on them so high that they might as well stay here and produce it here if they want to sell in this market they have to stay in this market and at least pay the piper some just like all their labor will.

On some of the government programs I agree cut unessential, but have to necesarily keep some because the free market or whatever class sorry to say does not give a continental Bleep about many no longer able to participate in the laboring role. Also need to take look at pricing from the free enterprise elements to these government programs as certain ones doing the contracting are on a riduculous "gravy train". If they don't watch out a buch of folks are going to get wise and more effecient system will replace them and I wont go into any particulars here. I think it all boils down to all clsses need each other and the need to come to the table realizing this in spirit of corporation. Thus bringing produstion of goods and services back to our country. This coupled with limited but not entirely exclusion of government I think will be eventual best route to go. This relates directly to sales of Model S to "Professional Class" now and to the working class and big commuters later. Got to get some people elected into government that know how to help businesses succeed. This part of the engine has got to run good and it's not at present.

When the US gov't produces their budget for the year everyone needs to ask a few questions. What is the government's revenue? What are they spending? If we draw a nice simple pie chart where does the money go?

In 2009 the military, medicare and Social Security accounted for about 62% of all expenditures. Also in 2009 the spending was about $1.67 for every $1 of revenue.

You aren't going to fix these numbers with a few tweaks and complaints about efficiency (fraud, etc). Are there wasteful, port barrel programs? Yes. But there are also some very useful programs operated by over-worked, underfunded and conscientious people (we can debate the split between these elsewhere).

What you need is people to take an interest in these numbers. Then you need a comprehensive review (which would require cooperation from the right and the left in the US) of all revenue and spending so you can reach a point where you are only spending about $0.99 (all programs and debt servicing) for every $1 you take in. That last penny can start to repay existing debt.

The problem I see is that most of my American co-workers only care enough to joke that they live in "The United States of China" and to point out that they are over taxed.

Back to the original topic of the thread - I don't have a lot of faith in BYD and the other Chinese manufacturers. Quality issues in several products I have bought (or seen others buy) don't give me a good feeling about Chinese cars. My biggest concern is that my misgivings are misplaced and not truly reflective of what China is capable of.

Oops. Meant pork barrel, not port barrel. A barrel of port might be a little too classy and refined for characterizing wasteful spending. :)

cablechewer, Eveything you and others have said concerning all this stuff is right on the mark I believe. If we can understand it and almost universally agree I think the american people as a whole need to have it drilled into them to the point they actually become interested and "get it" and let's stop killing the chicken that lays golden eggs. Our productive and services potential. This is what has won some major wars for us. If I may digress. Had a history teacher in college who was captured by our adversary at the time, he was being interviewed {brainwashed] at one point and the adversary was pointing out he had no chance to which he told them "we can win this war with cigarette lighters" interviewers had a puzzled look and ask him how? He replied "our {then} productive capability could produce enough cigarette lighters to cover that country in three feet of cigarette lighters and I would like to see anybody fight a war in three feet of cigarette lighters". After that they let him alone. Not against trade, as said before the Chinese and many other nations are wonderful people but we must get things on a level playing field.

Staying in character and going way off topic now and making a political statement {already gone off on topics too much, too often I know} but anyway Duncan Hunter was the main person that was adressing these problems in the last election. Sadly our political process has gone "show business" now. Charismatic personality, handsome looks, great oratorical ability, count more than knowledge of issues and political will. More like "American Political Idol" now. But was encouraged that some politicians made inroads against this trend. Maybe there is hope. If we can just get the legendary "person in the street" educated and conversant on these issues then we will be OK I think. And if the diversity of opinions and ideas represented on this site can basically come together then I know this can be achieved.

Certainly not against the Chinese people and know they are extremely intelligent people and realize we and the Chinese are somewhat interdependent as we all are. Getting back on topic now, as far as the new Chinese electric car , someone made the statement that Musk probably hopes they are sucessful. This makes a lot of sense to. Going back to my former statements about the Migs in the Korean War, don't know who "hotrodded" them but know they were "bad to the bone" fighter planes. This may or may not relate to their techno capability but bet they will eventually wind up with a pretty darn good little car. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Tesla coming from the top down and China seemingly going from the bottom of the line up. Both will definitely play a big role in energy independence probably. Let's just stay friendly and get the playing field level on trade. Let us get our jobs humming here. Think this will be a number one political theme this next election cycle, as well it shold be, and think their are some players that can achive this. In spite of "American Political Idol" although think there is one who can do a darn good job of both right now and think all know who I am talking about. Would have already been doing this except for a dirty trick within his own party and you all know who I am talking about. But I digress[as is not unusual}. I tried to keep cars in the mix as they certianly are.

Not to diminish Chinese technology, just researched my own statement or question. The Russians "hot rodded" the Migs. No news to most of you I am sure. How does this relate to Tesla? Maybe a stretch but all under the heading Chinese technology which does relate to their new electric car coming out. Which I bet might be a pretty good one. Which will open more doors for the EV's worlwide I suppose.

We have all heard the pollution in China is terrible so maybe we could sell them some techno products that would help with this. Does anybody know the primary sources of all this pollution? Again does anyone know the primary make up of their power grid and is their topography amenable to hdroelectric? Was it China or some other that recently finished the worlds largest hydroeelectic project. Almost sure it was China. So maybe we have an opening here to sell them some stuff they need to fight pollution. We are all indeed interdependent and yet we as human beings are, still in great numbers bent on war, how stupid.

It's just in our genes or something it would be well to eliminate, myself included. As I have tried to lead discussions on weapons systems in this very thread. Just last night was discussing who "hot rodded" the migs. We have to have a very strong defense but strictly for defense as an absolute last resort. Lets bring honest diplomacy forward to its rightful place. Know it's not nearly exciting as weapons systems but this thinking has just got to be minimized.

China is less polluting than US. Pretty much same sources, less used.

Thanks timo will take your word as I know you can back up what you say but what about all the stuff about the bad air in China is this just media hype or is it just centered around the large cities{same as USA}. The media makes it sound that it is much worse than ours.{USA that is}.

Again this would be good area for USA and China to cooperate on, air pollution and technologies to improve it. Must get our energies and thinking more away from war too many other things desperately need our global cooperation and concentrate on the positive things concerning life on this planet.I am by no stretch of the imagination a globalist here though. Don't even like the term "globallization". China and USA and many other countries can usher in electric cars much faster than many can or want to think I believe. I believe China has the same realization as many other countries do now about EV's.

China is horribly polluted because they use coal extensively for electricity, heating, cooking, you name it. Over 68% of their electricity comes from coal. Their domestic sources include a lot of poor quality lignite coal, which burns very dirty.

When I visited China a number of years ago, you could barely see the buildings around Tiananmen Square for the smog. It was a huge relief to get out of the city.

Douglas3. I have missionary friend and wife who spent twenty years in China they related similsr experiences in some area. Think they will ever go for hydro or is the land just to precious for other uses etc.

EV's and pollution is seeming to be a definite area of cooperation between China and a lot of other countries. Thanks for the informative post.

In global scale US is much worse polluter, but around cities low-tech shows in China. Though recently they have made a lot of progress in that area. Moving as fast as possible to EV:s is a smart move in China, where people get more and more cars.

Timo, in respect to co2 production or total resource consumption you are correct about USA versus China, but they have poor enforcement of environmental laws and have huge amounts of particulate and toxic pollution. In many respects we have exported our pollution to China. Their pollution is much much worse than ours. Think LA in 1970s every day. This is not confined to their cities unfortunately.

Searcher, have a look at the environmental disaster that has been caused by the Three Gorges Dam in China. Hydroelectricity is not the answer to their problem.


ggr I am sure this is the project I was referring to. Didn't know they had had a problem with it. Will check this out. Thanks for the information.

Whole lotta #(#@&@& goin' on.

Go to and start reading his stuff.

Some shockers. There is no such thing as a trade deficit. Tariffs kill what they claim to protect. A strong dollar is a matter of intent and confidence, and is crucial. Etc.

Lincoln never said that. It was part of the conclusion of an article a Rev B?? wrote about Lincoln in the '20s, and lazy readers and editors mis-attributed it.

And no liberal in the world believes a word of it. Envy, remedied by confiscation, is of the essence to them. But as Iron Maggie said, "Eventually you run out of other people's money." Quite soon, actually. And other people's money runs from you even faster. The UK suddenly lost almost its entire entertainment and sports star population when they put tax rates thru the roof for the "idle rich". Not to mention anyone who knew much about making things work. They are about to reap the consequences.

CO2 is pollution only in EPA-style doubletalk. Crashing and crushing the world's industrial economy MIGHT reduce Globull Warming by 0.1 to 0.2 degrees by 2100. But probably not. And there'll be a lot fewer around to worry about it, and even fewer who even know what it is.

ALL of the "records" and models on which that is based are fudged and plugged** and stuffed with WAGs* to a fare-thee-well. If the Precautionary Principle is applied to avoid its highly low-probability warnings, then it is CERTAIN than the current highest food prices and food riots will be the merest faint breeze compared to the hurricane of devastation that will sweep the planet.

*Wild-Azzed Guesses.
** A prominent modeler famously said, "Give me 4 free parameters, and I'll make you an elephant. Give me 5, and it'll flap its ears."
Global Circulation Models have in excess of 20, each, and growing.

typo: "that the current highest food prices ever"

BrianH, Interesting comments. Seems my "slap a tariff on them" comment wasn't too much in line with your thinking. And of course my idea may quite well have been a "knee jerk" uninformed statement. Having said that would you elaborate on the "tariff" thing a bit.

If you will, pretend you are running for president and you are addressing the issue of our debt,what would be your proposals to reduce this and as fast as possible. Also what would be your comments on high unemployment and where we are in world trade and what, if anything, needs to be done concerning this.

Honestly not trying to be a smart aleck, would really love to hear your opinions on this as well as others. All this is vitally improtant to production and sales of EV's world wide, the strength
of the dollar etc.

Concerning environmental issues and industry I am in agreement with you here you "dont throw out the baby with the bathwater". There is innovative capability globally and a sensible balance between the environmentalist and industrialist points of view.

On taxing I am in complete agreement with you here. Don't kill the very energy that is a very big part of running the economic engine. But there are a few tweaks that can be made as there are some improvemnts that can be made on both sides of the fence without getting into outright class warfare. After all most money was "somebody elses at one time" unless someone has a "funny money" machine in their basement. But the taxing thing, and working and professional class thing we will take up in another discusion.

Too complex; it would take over the thread and my life for a day or ten. Check out the link I gave you above; Tamny is a bit too fundamentalist-economics for me, but not much.

Real debt incurred for real goods and services is not the problem. Government commandeering of the lending resources of the country to feed preferred supporters is a deadly problem. The debt for that is arbitrarily created, and is potentially unlimited, for minuscule public good.

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