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Closest Competition to the Model X

What are the closest competitors to the Tesla Model X?

My best guesses so far are as follows:

  • For practicality: Infiniti QX60 Hybrid AWD
  • For ecology: Toyota Rav4 EV (only sold in California)
  • For performance: Porsche Cayenne or Porsche Macan
  • Honorable mentions: Mercedes-Benz R-class, Lexus RX 450h AWD

A bunch of good competitors listed in this thread: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24164-Porsche-Macan-starts...

The Macan is a pretty good looking option, for a little putt-putt, or even a Porsche-putt. As suggested at TMC, too bad it wasn't called the Pecan. ;)

Kind of hard to compare a car that does not exist to any other car. However I would love an SUV based (or styled) EV with a solid 200 mile range. However, I am quite concerned that the Model X will be priced out of my price range. I am guessing based on everything I have read that the Model X will start at $80k and will quickly be over $100k with the larger battery and leather interior and the tech package....

I just will not spend $100k on any car. It it just the limit of what I am willing to spend...

I also think that there will be a lot of delays in the model X production. I do not see any significant deliveries until late in 2015 (again based on what I have read).

As a result, I am going to try and get a BMW i3 next year with the REx engine. It will cover 90+% of my driving on electricity alone. For the rest, the REx will be available to the 5-10% of the time that I need it. It is certainly not competition for the Model X, but it may well be a viable alternative for me for $30,000-$40,0000 less money. I happen to like the i3 so far, and will have a really hard time justifying the Model X for double the price. If I get the i3, I will cancel my reservation for the model X.

Again, the i3 in Not competition for the Model X but it will be available next year and I think the Model X is at least two years away for me (high reservation number) and far more expensive and I think it would be quite happy with the i3....

The post from that thread that says what I was thinking when I saw the Macan...

"I don't see how the Macan is a competitor to the Model X. The Q7 is what Elon kept comparing the Model X to, which is what the Cayenne is based off of. The VW Tiguan/Audi Q5/Porsche Macan platform is rather small. There is no room in the back for anything that would resemble a third row of seats (much less cargo room).

The real competition (IMHO) stacks up like this:

Audi Q7
Porsche Cayenne
Volvo XC90
MB ML-Class
BMW X5 (maybe X6)
Lincoln MkT
Infiniti QX60 (2014)
Lexus GX (hideous, IMHO)
Range Rover LR4

I'm looking at seats, cargo space, amenities, etc doing the comparison. A fully blown out X85+ would come close to the top end of all of those in pricing, but you get what you pay for with Tesla."

Cheers!

You have a lot of beatiful cars in this list, but all of them have one point, that i hope Model X will have too ... less wind and street noise on higher speeds. I hope Tesla will shield the car against noise and care about the complete unwanted noise from outside.

For example the Porsche Cayenne, you can talk at a speed of 270km/h too, The Tesla is very loud at 160 - 200km/h. I know, that on the Tesla you don't hear the Engine, but on this speed i have no Engine Noice on Luxery cars, in the car.

Whats the compare in focus of the noice level to the Model X?

Definitely remove the Lexus RX450h AWD as a possible competitor. I just got rid of one and it was without doubt the most boring, stupidly engineered vehicle I have ever driven.
'The librarian of SUVs'.

As my Model S is the most 'together' engineered car I've ever owned, I doubt anything around will be as pleasing.

Hello
I am retired, but still consult. I have owned Porsches, BMW's, MB, and Volvo's. Have a special car on my Bucket List--not sure yet what it will be. I do want to make an environmental statement with this purchase.

Have driven the S, and it was superb. I am really a customer for the X. As my wife says, I have the bug, and will have a new car by Xmas--not sure I agree. I have driven some of the competition, and a car is left off the list that would be my choice if I had to buy this week. That is a BMW 535D. It was wonderful. Its real, available today. Its 65K, pretty loaded. "That's Diesel, lady". Fast. Comfortable. AWD.

I love the Tesla X, but $100K is just too much--and it seems like the 60K Tesla X might only be an dream, with no options, which make the car. The stock market has been good to me this year, not sure I can hold off.

Comments?

Gary

How much is it worth to you not to have to feed a putt-putt 100X a year?

Well, the putt-putt gets 37 mpg highway (most of my driving), 0-60 in 5.7 secs AWD, so at 12K miles per year, I would be filling the putt-putt about 18 times per year. That's about $800 more per year than the Tesla for fuel/electricity under the same conditions. Pay back is way more than 20 years, even if I throw in $1200 per year for maintenance. Since the first 4 are covered, that's fine. I keep my cars on the average of 14 years.

So 18 fillups is about 3 hours of my time. At $50 per hour, thats a savings of $150.

At $65K+, I would do the Tesla X. I am willing to subsidize the movement for EV, but the extra $40K is a little hard to swallow. Even with escalation for oil and for electricity, still does not quite get me there. $40k buys a lot of other toys--maybee even a Tesla Y.

Gary

10 minutes a fillup? No lines where you are, I guess.

To be fair, you should offset costs by any alternative car payments you might make during the equivalent period, unless you anticipate keeping your current car for 14 more years!

Hello Brian
I am in the Northeast. We have no lines here. Of course, being retired, I do everything mid-day and mid-week. So perhaps at 6am or 6pm, there might be lines. Where are you located?

I am counting on Mid-week for long trips at the supercharging stations for available stalls. Can you imagine the stalls on Rt. 95 on Friday night in Connecticut, in the winter, as all those folks in NY/NJ head up to ski country? I expect there would be some waits and some lines.

To be fair, on a recent trip, I checked out the Milford, Darien, Newark supercharging stations, and there was no wait, and unfortunately, no Teslas charging to look at. While I did not wait in any gas lines, I have certainly seen them on other trips down the Jersey Turnpike.

Not sure what you mean about alternative car payments. Seems like it would be the same for both cases. As a Bucket List vehicle, I do plan to keep the Tesla/Alternate for 14 years or maybe more.

Gary

Gary,

I don't believe you can make a purely financial case for the X vs some of the competition. However it depends upon what you value. I believe the X will be an excellent value if you think, fast, quick (not the same things), safe and reducing our dependance on foreign oil are valuable things.

I currently own and S and was a little slow to fully comprehend the amazing leap in quality and value of the S. I have owned it for a year, I have 20,0000 miles on it and now have absolutely no desire to return to an internal combustion engine vehicle. I would never have said that after a single test drive. Or even multiple test drives However owning one for an extended period of time has allowed be to very accurately (for me) judge the value of it as I still have to drive my wife's car and my work truck on occasion.

Best of luck on your decision. But if you can afford an X then I believe there really is no decision.

Hello jjs

I agree that a pure financial case may not be made for EV at this time. The Tesla does come close that most. I do expect to subsidize the movement at this point, its just a big commitment to be an early adopter here.

I just need to quantify and understand what the trade off are.

Speaking of trade offs, given the two following options, which would you potential X customers choose;

a. 265 mile range and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds as is expected,

b. 400 mile range and 0-60 in 7-8 seconds.

Be great to have a switch between modes, not sure if the technology would support that.

Gary

Gary,
What happened to wanting to make an environmental statement with this purchase?

With Tesla making such a great car with the S the bar has been raised on this front. I don't see how anything but an all electric makes much of an environmental statement any longer. Especially if you're in an area of the country where we get most of our electricity from hydro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electricity_producti...

goneskiian - Very good point about the hydro.

Gary - You options a. and b. already exist in the s (sort of) and will most likely be there in the X as well. If you drive the car carefully you can get more than the stated mileage. If you drive it hard you get less. Now to get this performance in and ICE car you trade off the option to drive it carefully and get substantially better mileage. ICE vehicles simply cannot be configured/built to do that as well as an EV, particularly a Tesla. In a practical sense you won't get 265 vs 400, but the range varies widely based upon how you choose to drive.

Hello goneskiian and all

I am well aware that by driving carefully, one can improve mileage. Just drove down to Cape Cod from New Hampshire, 200 miles, and got 24 mpg from my Volvo XC90, and that's regular gas (5 Cyl). Also drove my wife's XC 70 Cross Country Wagon--same drive train, on a 90 mile, all highway trip, and got 31.4 mpg.

What I did not say, is that however the 265 is determined, test cycle, etc., what if under the same conditions, the X could go 400 miles. I have been told that some careful owners have got just over 400 miles by driving very carefully.

If there was a switch for a and b options, I wonder how many folks would opt for condition b? I guess the product folks at Tesla have a handle on this one, but it would be interesting. Also, I wonder if that option reduced the price of the vehicle a bit, if that would benefit the EV conversion. I am led to believe that the battery costs pretty much dominate everything--but how about the inverter?

As for the environmental statement--it may have to be a little smaller statement than the X.

Gary

baily;
The "very carefully" is about 25 mph on flat land.

Re the car payments, I am assuming you are considering buying a comparable vehicle. Take the difference in cost (monthly finance) and then compare that to gas savings. The net is likely to be fairly small.

Hello Brian
Yes I would buy a different vehicle. Probably around $65k. Driven a BMW 535 Diesel and looking to the Volvo XC 60 Plug in Hybrid. Not EV, but drove the current XC60. Both are fabulous cars--and I still have $35K left over. That's the problem I am wrestling with. Some days I am ready to buy the X, some days the BMW, and some days the Volvo.

Gary

@goodrich:

The ONLY vehicle listed that could be even remotely considered an equivalent "competitor" is Toyota's Rav4 as it is the only other fully EV while the others are just hybrids.

To clarify, there's EV, Hybrid, and ICE...Each are separate technologies deserving of their own individual categories despite others efforts to form some type of cross-platform androgyny between the three.

Technically speaking of course.

bailey;
What would the 35K save you in monthly payments, assuming you financed it? How much would you save in gas per month? Are those two numbers close?

typo: "the 35K save cost you ....

Hello Brian
Interesting question. Took a spreadsheet to figure this one out. In a nutshell, if you keep the vehicle 14 years (My scenario), Its $251 per month more than the Diesel. Tesla $172K, Diesel $130K and keep XC90, $89K.

Devil is in the details. Used 0.11$/KWH, $3.90 Diesel, $3.30 for Low test gas--current local prices 12/2013. Escalated at 4% per year for all--consistent with past experience and future estimates--who knows? For Tesla put in $200/mo for maintainence starting in year 4--to cover tires, brake pads, rotors, lube, shocks, universal joints, electric inverter?, air suspension, etc. Also, what to do about battery? If you are lucky enough to have it crap out at 7.5 years, replaced under warranty for free, and then get 6.5 years out of the replacement and then dump it after 14 years of ownership, you come out smelling like a rose. If it happens that your battery craps out at 8.5 years, and you have to pay for it, and then replacement goes for 5 years, and you get stuck with a second one, which seems to happen to me, then its more. I put 2 batteries in at 10K each which is probably too conservative--we don't know. Put $2400 per year in for the Diesel maintenance after 6 years (First 6 covered) for 4 years, and then booted up to $3600 per year for the next 4 years. Again who knows. For the XC90, $2400 per year for 7 years, and $3600 per year in for the following 7 years. Included the cost of insurance, and escalated at 4%.

So what happens if you take Tesla up on the 36 month guaranteed resale deal? Now the Tesla costs $61K, the Diesel $47K and my old XC90 costs $15k for the next 3 years. Same assumptions as above.

So try as I might, can't make a case for the Tesla on dollars along. Have to consider the other intangibles. I know I don't want to spend 88K and run my 10 year old XC 90 another 14 years!

Gary

Great analysis. Thanks for the math Gary.

Yup. Pretty much confirms that buying a Tesla now includes an "early adopter" fee and everyone needs to decide for themselves how worth it is to pay that fee in order to fund Tesla's future development of hopefully more affordable electric automobiles.

Cheers!

The $$ difference is for the intangibles, primarily the quality of the driving experience, and the "fatigue free" mental health of your passengers. People who have experienced them consider these to be bargains.

Bailyhill,

If it's only about pure operating $ math get a Chevy Cruze and throw it away every 3 years. Probably cheaper than any of your scenarios. Haven't looked much at Econ boxes lately but there are numerous cars cheaper than the ones you studied.

Or a really great bike would be even cheaper.

Hard to factor in all the reasons we own things.

I also did an analysis, to determine the tradeoffs of keeping my 2011 3-series BMW versus getting the 60 KWh Model S. The cost-to-own figures were from edmunds.com for the BMW and extrapolated from the Nissan Leaf for the Model S. The results were as follows:

5-year ownership costs

BMW Tesla
Depreciation $16,000.00 $36,000.00
Taxes $750.00 -$3,440.00
Maintenance $8,000.00 $5,000.00
Repairs $7,000.00 $2,000.00
Fuel $12,500.00 $1,750.00
Insurance $3,450.00 $5,500.00

Totals $47,700.00 $46,810.00

It was after I did this analysis that I put down a deposit on a Model X.

@baileyhill14

It's really quite simple, Gary...If you don't want to buy one of Tesla's models, then don't.

See how simple that was?

Never mind the inherent, long term ecological, environmental, personal and public health ramifications for yourself and your children (and your children's children) that accompany the purchase and usage of an ICE-based "BMW" (or any ICE) instead.

I'm sure you'll manage to reconcile your guilty conscious with the knowledge that you're behind the wheel of a vehicle that was specifically "designed for driving pleasure", and is touted as being the "ultimate driving machine", but will you manage to reconcile your angst when you find yourself glaring at my rapidly disappearing into the distance tail lamps as I leave you 'behind', both literally and figuratively?

Drive humane. Drive electric.

allusion;
guilty conscious conscience

goodrich;
You can force fixed font, enabling tables, with the <pre> tag

5-year ownership costs
.
                 BMW        Tesla
Depreciation   $16,000.00 $36,000.00
Taxes             $750.00 -$3,440.00
Maintenance     $8,000.00  $5,000.00
Repairs         $7,000.00  $2,000.00
Fuel           $12,500.00  $1,750.00
Insurance       $3,450.00  $5,500.00
.
Totals         $47,700.00 $46,810.00

@Brian H

Yeah, spell check/editing isn't available for anyone in a thread other than the threads' author, so whaddaya gonna do? I guess I'm resigned to being some "grammar nazi's" victim.


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