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Cost of S

I love the look of the new S model but the only way it will be in my garage is if the price is not to high.I am well aware that this is a new industry and that development cost are high but to get people into them on a mass market scale they need to be affordable at the moment they arn`t.

For starters, The signature version is a special edition- Only 2,000 in the world! Secondly, about a year ago the Tesla website said that it would have the larger battery capacity in it. it also has supposedly better performance (0-60 in 5 seconds, not 5.6). Lastly, you are paying to be the first ones on your block with the car

The short answer is No- simply because it's a special edition

The long answer is Yes, you can get very close to upgrading on par to the special edition, but there are going to be minor differences AND it will not hold the "collector's value" like the signature edition.

A good historical example is the 2002 Pontiac Trans AM, (special edition was as much as a corvette, fully loaded normal trans AM was a few thousand less) yes, performance wise you can get it to be the same, but there was a special VIN numbers which you pay a premium for.

and the special edition is for the byers that donw want to wait
if you wait and look at the wating list maybe just 3 month befor it will be released you will notis that the normal list will be 5-10.000 long but the Special Edition might only be 8-900 and still have romm for the filthy rich

Mark;
RU always inane and incoherent? Or have you just OD'd on something?

Hey! By the time this car is available on the market the prices will have been pushed down by the other competitors that will have already been selling there goods. I wouldn't be too concerned about pricing just yet. Competition is a lovely thing. Volt, Leaf, Karma etc.

Competition? Since when is Mercedes making cheaper top models because of Nissan or Renault makes cheap ones?

The volt and the leaf are really different kategories of a car performance wise. The Karma is 80$...

I wouldn't count on Tesla to make them cheaper... And I still pray that we europeans don't have to pay much more than the us guys....

Luxury car owners don't want the prices to come down, as that just permits the hoi-polloi to poach on their territory and debase the exclusive snob appeal of their cars. In reality, a Caddy costs about 20% more to make than a Chevy, but is priced 2-3X as high.

For the most part I am inspired by all the chat about the Model S. I love the Toyota Corolla comparison. I feel like I've put a deposit down on something that will end up being worth more after I buy it then before. People will be sending me unsolicited offers via PayPal, or chasing me down the street to try to buy my car. Yippee!

But there is one thing that concerns me, and that's quality. I'm talking fit and finish. The sound of the door when you close it. A smooth, rattle-free ride. The attention to those little details, like moldings and switches. Companies like Mercedes and BMW have refining their products for decades. Will Tesla be able to achieve this kind of quality in their first production luxury sedan?

I look forward to reading your comments.

My sincere apologies. I posted my previous message in the wrong thread.

Here is my input... but first i would like to take my hat off to brave investors who supported Tesla R&D and now here we are landed with a Model S, a super luxury sedan that you dont have to waste money on fuel and lubricants...

USD 50K price tag? Not bad for a start. However, if Tesla R&D would ever get this sweet beauty for a price tag of USD 36000 there you go.... beat every car and you will see it is mostly Tesla Model S on the road everywhere in the world.....

Why not try a city car for 4 passengers in future very soon for a lower price tag? you are beating everybody else.

Finally, how about a SUV within a price bracket of USD 36000-42000.... It will be only Tesla's on the roads by 2020 or atleast Tesla powertrains in most popular makes... That is my dream...

I know some of this has already been covered briefly in this forum but I was hoping get a little more information on the federal tax credits and state rebates.

First, let me tell you I live in California. Second, I was doing some research on the tax credits and the $7500 is at the federal level, right? The way I understand it is if we were to purchase a Model S we would receive a tax credit of $7500 so when we do our taxes we can reduce our taxable income by $7500. Am I on the right page here?

Also, since I live in California, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) offers a $5000 rebate if we purchase a Zero Emissions vehicle. This is separate from the $7500 federal tax credit, correct? (Side note, the Model S isn't on the list of CARB approved vehicles as of right now, however the Roadster is an approved vehicle. I'm assuming once the Model S is available it too would be added to the approved list.)

So if my thinking is correct if the Model S is added to the CARB approved list and if the $7500 tax credit is still available when the Model S comes to market the Model S would run us Californian's about $44900, right?

$57400
- $7500 Federal Tax Credit
- $5000 CA State Rebate
---------
= $44900

This number doesn't take into consideration any sales tax, which brings up another question. Are automobile purchases in California held to the same sales tax as any other purchase?

Any and all help would be great!

Thanks, John.

@Fulcrum2010:

*sigh* Ok, I'll say it again, for the 800th time.

Tesla does not have the capital to develope a new electric car with that little with the facilities they had to start with. In order for them to R&D and build a car in that low a price range, they are first building the expensive sports car to prove electric works, then taking the money they earn from those sales to build a luxery sedan so they can use the money from the sales of THAT car (the model S) so they can build a more affordable 4 door street car (under development as project Bluestar).

Do we all understand that now? Can I stop repeating this same statement every couple of weeks now?

@gotwins
With regards to sales tax, yes in California you do have to pay sales tax like any other vehicle. In some states, like NJ, there is no sales tax. Also the tax credit- it's not a reduction on your taxable income, the way I understand it, is that you get that money back- similar to the 8K rebate for 1st time home buyers a few years ago. So let's say your federal taxes for the year are 6000 K, you would not be able to take full advantage of the rebate unless it was split over a number of year, which I don't think they can do that. For people who can afford the Model S, I think their tax liabilities are well over 7,500 K/year (average gross income probably around 50 K in order to get that tax liability) . The state rebate may be a little shaky though since you would need to be taxed alot more than the federal level in order to get the rebate. (For NJ at least, you need to make a gross of around 80 K in order to take full advantage of the rebate)

@Dan5

Thanks for the reply, very useful information. I was able to dig up some more info on the Tax Credit. A Tax Credit reduces your tax liability which means if some one makes $25,000 a year his tax liability is rather low so he will only be able take a partial advantage of the $7,500 tax credit. Ideally, you're correct, the people who can afford a $60,000 car usually have a higher tax liability therefore they'll take full advantage of the tax credit.

As for the State Rebate, I wasn't able to locate any information about how it could be related to one's taxes. However, the way I understand it is the state rebate is straight cash given to an individual or business for purchasing a Zero Emissions Vehicle. What the State of California is doing is not a tax credit it's a rebate.

If that is the case then if you live in California you can subtract an additional $5,000 off the total. Sounds pretty good to me but then again, I don't know if I'm reading everything correctly. Let me know what you think.

Correct, the CA $5k is a rebate and has nothing to do with your state or federal tax liability. The $5k when received as cash may, however, be subject to income tax (there are debates on this ongoing) at both federal and CA state level. Whether there will be funding available for the $5k rebate when Model S is delivered in 2012+ is an entirely different issue.

More info: https://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-reba...

It would be interesting to see 2 simultaneous equations to define the cost of an ICE (I see that acronym for gasoline vehicles, but what is it?) -versus EV. The new ICE costs $28,500.00 and gets 25.5 mpg new, then -2 mpg less, for each 32,000 miles later, and 3 mpg stuck in traffic, with gasoline costing $3.52 per gallon X 48,000 miles driven per year. Oil changes could be based on $40.00 per 5,000 miles. Since most new vehicles have new car warranties, the price added would be what ever the warrenty costs (zero $, or ?) THEN

EV costs $59,500 less Federal and State rebates/Tax credits, plus (360 days per year X 13 cents per KWHr X 30(?) Kwhrs per day (= would be about 100 miles per day recharge needed?) ) plus EV insurance costs could be calculated as twice as much as $110/month for the ICE. Would it be about $220 per month for the EV in California? (Not in LA or San Francisco, which would be much higher.)

What other reasonable, or more exact variables would be needed to find out this FIRST year cost, AND then to find a break even year, when the gasoline car becomes less efficient? We should probably ignore collisions and mechanical breakdowns, for now.

How are High average mileage drivers (230 miles per day) affected by these formulas?

Does anyone have a set of formulas with these, or better variables? ? ?

@Rrroger: ICE (I see that acronym for gasoline vehicles, but what is it?)

That's "internal combustion engine". It is a reference for the engine, not the car itself, though many seem to leave that "car" out of the sentence.


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