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Esoteric EV ramblings.

Very msc. EV topics. Freewheelling, where decorum to "stay on topic" is not so critical.

@Vawlkus, Back on my rambling thread now. Hope this makes you happy. Oh yes how many threads have you started , what are they, and where are they?

VolkerP,Yeah I thought one of my questions was possibbly laughable but wasn't sure about how the enrgy transfers worked. And of course the laughable aspect hasn't hindered me much thus far. I think some of the most disputed rnkings might have changed around some during the TG wars, or were you in that fray to,ha. I was in a limited way{if you can believe that} but I felt kind of weird as I think I was on the semi-majority as I am usually one against all,ha. Do you remember ever seeing any of the old Charlie Chaplain movies how he would get in rows with everybody. I just got spammed by Vawlkus for getting on my "soapbox" under "American Made" thread in model s forum. Of course I had some kind words in response. Will have to contact ole valwlkus because I really like his posts. Been trying to do a little pr lately and better my image but I get ahead and then it all gets set back for one reason or another. But we will just call it "peer review", even though I am not a peer, but it's nice to know I am in good company anyway with my most disputed aspect,ha.

@Vawlkus, I did go on a bit on the other thread "many pardons" and I hope all is cool.


Any danger would be release of a great deal of energy (I have no idea how much) in a small space. The danger wouldn't be in the form of nuclear energy but very high thermal energy. It would be of short duration, but conceivably do a great deal of damage to the car and its occupants. Two things I like the most about the pH11 process are the direct conversion to electrical energy and the ready availability of both hydrogen and boron 11.

The LPP plant requires a couple of tons gross weight, including the "water shell" shield. Not feasible for an auto, but possible for big rigs etc. The major advantage would be unlimited range. The problem would be drivers never stopping to eat or sleep and driving off cliffs and into walls and poles and ...


Ships, locomotives, and obviously movable charging point for heavy electric workmachines.

BTW, that water shell would be unnecessary if the side-reactions could be controlled which would miniaturize the reactor to really small space. Main reaction is totally (radioactive) radiation-free.

Unfortunately that is not possible with current tech, but maybe in some distant future

The side reactions are a function of the statistical spread of energies in the plasmoid; very unlikely to be able to eliminate them. Maybe with a different element for fuel, like nitrogen, but I have no idea whether it's even theoretically possible.

This is pretty interesting stuff. I think someone has a thread going concerning marine applications of electric power. Sounds like the LPP thing might be a good option for yachts on up. Military marine application sounds like it might be good. And since we are in marine mode roughly how is the nuclear power configured on these ships and wonder if anyone knows what kind of safety factors are built into these systems that obviously have to be engineered to go into harms way with at least some concern for safety built in, or maybe not. Just the risks of war, baby.

I hope LPP (or something like it) works. I really do. But at the moment it is fantasy. We've been bitten once with cold fusion, I would rather waste brain cells figuring out how to make something work than how to use something that doesn't (at the moment, or the near future) work.


What's your definition of the near future? If the LPP project continues on schedule, its units could be hitting the market before you could commission and build a single fission plant.

While I have been following Tesla for a while I am a now little disappoineted. I have seen and driven a Roadster and was very exited about the possibility of purchasing a Model S. When I first started following... the Model S seemed like the perfect commuter/family replacement. Finally, an electric car with a decent range (300 miles) that will get me to work and a few errands around town with almost the same range as a gas powered vehicle.

Most importantly, for the regular middle class the Model S was possibly affordable. At $45-50K (original Price est.) it was at the top of an upper middle class(100K or more) budget. With college educations and the cost of living I might be able to squeeze out the cost. Alas my dream is dashed by the added cost of the expanded battery packs. 160 miles is not enough for today's commuter. At an average of 35-40 mile commute, with traffic and detours, the 160 mile car seems like a second generation leaf? While the styling can not compare, I had great hopes for a start up, I always wanted to back the little guy. I try to go to the local hardware store as much as possible and avoid Home Depot.

With a 20-30K premium on the 300 mile battery pack... I will not be a Tesla owner. While I know I would save about $2500/ year in gas and maint. The layout is just too much. I guess I and the other poor working guys will have to wait until the massed produced leaf goes to 300 miles. I guess I am stuck with Home Depot...A shame though... Mike

Brian H, do you know what has happened to site? I get rerouted to some googlesyndication "page expired" page from


I get the same thing. This happened to my site a few years back. IIRC it was a mistake of the service provider, or someone jumping the gun on what was about to expire. Hopefully it'll be cleared up satisfactorily.

Yeah, seems fixed. Don't know what was going on there.

Fusion reactors, who knows when?
In many ways the preferred future path will include lots of fast breeder reactors. They can make use of existing "nuclear waste" (which isn't really waste-it still contains enormous amounts of energy, as everyone probably realizes). The math shows that
just be using nuclear wastes now on hand, breeders can produce all the electrical energy this country would need for the next 1000
years. In the process, the nuclear waste material becomes a
relatively low level radiactive problem. Right now there are, I believe, 3 or 4 working breeders. None, of course, are located in this "high tech" country of ours, which seems to have abandoned
all thoughts of leading the world in any technology. Or even being in second or third place. The former Communist countries seem to be leading the way with a rising standard of living. They more or less own the USA.


fast breeder reactor technology was discontinued by most OECD countries: USA, UK, France, Germany. Mostly for economic reasons. Energy for 1000 years is not desirable if it costs significantly more than other sources.

Japan sticks with all options of nuclear (is that a former communist country?) but their risk management shows room for improvement.

China is in desperate need of electricity.

The remaining countries (India, Russia) breed for their nuclear weapons, so cost is secondary issue here.

It appears to me that capitalist countries behave - well - capitalistic here. I would be happy if there is a viable technology and it is used to burn up all our nuclear waste in a safe and economic way. perhaps rubbiatron?

Well I'm back folks, hope you all enjoyed the respite. Anybody want to hear any tornado stories? We came out preety good, one tornando filmed touching down about amile from my house and another one caught with a picture from the airport about 3 miles form my home. Only damage here was all the electical activity prior to the tornados knocked out the modem on my PC. Of course I realize by some this may have been more under the boon catergory than damage, ha.
Most unusual storm story to me was baby picked up by storm in Tuscaloosa and delivered in Decatur,Al near a hospital relatively unharmed, distance of about 65 miles. Parents and child reunited I understand. Think University Of Alabama is temporarily closed. Understand Coach Sabin, his wife and family are all out working to help out as well as the Alabama football team. Heard the devastation is undescrible. Storm so strong in one place pulled up blacktop off the road. Understand several celebrities have come in to help out.
Strange thing I heard storm system coming, sounded like the classic rumbling train sound, very ominous but when actually hitting all around us was very still outside and sun actually trying to come out.
See the Top Gear wars are still going on. Heard last night on the radio that all world communications and media are owned by five companies with interlocking board of directors. Wonder if this is really true?
Good to be back chatting with you guys. Some of my friend in adjoining states couldn't get in touch with me and sent the sheriff out to check on me as they could get me on email or land line and didn't know my new cell number. Glad they cared enough to check on me.

Clarification: The baby was picked up and carried 65 miles by tornado and put back down with little or no physical harm from the tornado near a hospital. My friends could not get in touch with me on land line or email.

Heard recently that one of the main problems with the reactors in Japan were just too big and hard to shut down. Seems that smaller reactors would be easier to shut down. Think the reactors in Japan were american made.

Searcher, good to have you back, healthy and the usual self! :-)

Well "thnkyuvermuch" Tiebreaker. Good to be back. TCB

As I was rereading my tornado story I began to wonder if anyone had ever tried to duplicate the physics of a tornado in any kind of controlled lab experiment? Wonder what the inputs and outputs as far as energy would be and what the effeciences etc would be? Seems we are basically talking about cold air and hot air and the physics of the sudden combination of the two? Maybe a good way to lose a labratory, huh!

Have been doing some "catch up reading" and was intrigued by post of Ramon123 in which he states there is enough energy in waste nuclear materials to last this country 1000 years with "fast breeder reactors". Would like to hear this discussed further as in all matters there are most likely pros and cons.

I posted somewhere last night that I heard recently that the Japanese reactors were to big to shut down as quickly and easily as smaller reactors. Would like to here comments on this to. Incendently the Japanese reactors were american made.

Oops! not enogh catchup reading on this thread. See the 1000 year thing has been discussed some. So is the answer why use it when you have something cheaper?

Hi searcher, welcome back!

good to know you escaped these tornados.

Cost of nuclear power is widely disputed, as is cost of any other source when it comes to factoring in external cost (that the society and the tax payers bear). In case of nuclear, there was a new study published in Germany that quantifies the insurance sum for covering a Fukushima like devastation here in densely settled central Europe to 6 thousand billion Euros. (beware: billion in English is Milliarde in German.) Building up an insurance stock for that over 50 years would increase cost per kWh between .50 and 8 Euros (depends on pooling and cooperation of the insurers). Compare that to 0.05 Euros that a kWh from nuclear is sold today.

The problem with shutting down a nuclear reactor is dealing with the residue decay heat. As a rule of thumb, decay heat production is 7% of thermal output in the second the reactor is scrammed, decreases to 1% within 1 hour. So bigger reactors have bigger decay heat.
Older reactors are smaller but have outdated emergency coolant systems that cannot be updated in all circumstances. That may be the reason why Fukushima Daiichi #1 (1.38GW thermal, built in 1967) blew up as well as #3 (2.38GW th, 1970).

Yeah VolkerP good to be be back, thanks. I used to have a friend at work who would visit his grandparents in Germany and he would talk of the dense population. I used to get him to try living over there for awhile as his grandparents seemed to be fairly affluent at any rate they ran a very disciplined and tight ship and he desperately needed that at the time in his life.

So then more advanced reactors,easier to shut down etc. would certainly be a good way to be safer in these areas. Well anyway guess the fact we have the materials at least eliminates "we are going to run out of energy" thought, even though the price may be somewhat prohibitive and probably lifestyles and demographics would possibly have to be alterered some ,especially in the states. Good to know that improvements can be made over the current generation of reactors.

Well my theory is as a country if the working men and women of the country have relatively high employment and some jingling money{discretionary spending power} then all will be well, for them as well as the professional classes. So governments, private companies and all involved move in concert toward this goal then very good. Now give the working folks an electic vehicle to get around in and everything will be extra very good. Was delighted to hear Tesla shooting for a 15k car eventually. What prestige if they are able to pull it off even sooner than they thought. What profit to as people tend to stick with what works for them and if they can beat some of the big boys out of the chute this would be a big plus for Tesla, so maybe they might want to tweak their overall original plan a bit. Maybe have high end price and low end price at the same time and just follow the profits. The new german 1400 hundred dollar, 30 year, 6 minute charging battery could easily put this simultaneous fast track in their strategy. That is, if the information on the german battery is legit. Sounds almost too good to be true. What about this battery, Timo? Know you are watching this one like a hawk. Just seems like Tesla is going to have to speed up to point of working folks electric car to stay viable as all the other companies diving in are not slouches either. Make it high as possible off ground to make it a global contender to. That's one of Volvo's plus points in days gone by as a global seller, just simply high off ground for rough terrains.

As of today I have determined that Tesla needs more attention from our government and I have decided to call or write again and give them the Tesla messege. When I do I worould like to have a rough consensus of what you guys would say to our USA President if you were sitting in his office in a one on one conversation about Tesla. So send some thingsyou would like expressed and I will condense it down to several universal points and list them on this thread and then make the call. Keep it in as gracious a content as possible. Because that is the way it wil be presented. Of course I wont be talking to the president but just one of the people that answers the switchboard but would necessarily have to be as gracious as possible. Would relay this same consensus on to any other appropiate departments you all might deem relevant. Just seems that as election season approaches everybody needs to be more aware of Tesla and what they are undertaking. Feel like many in government due to the press of other issues are somewhat uninformed about Tesla. So just send in those letters boys and girls and we will get a consensus ready for presentation. All other countries please contribute to if you will.

Same as above bascically for BBC, but this would just be a consensus of fans of Tesla worldwide. Although you may not be in frame of mind with them to be gracious please force yourself and do it anyway. We will see if we can get them in our fold.

Seperate what you want to say either to Whitehouse or BBC.

Now another totally different train of thought. Suppose the new german battery turns out to be fully legit and Tesla found themselves in position they could move very fast simultaneosly{sp} both highend and lowend if they just had the capacity. In this case do you see any positives with them going in with some of the big producers to the great benefit of both companies or do yo see this as a negative strategy, wont call anyone on this one but would like to get a consensus of opionion on this just out of personal curiosity.

Musk wants to retain flexibility, which means quick use of in-house or external advances. Its market position will depend on "leading the pack" technologically. This is very hard to do as a sub of a major. The rough outlines of the arrangement with Toyota seem to be pushing drive-train tech, and producing specific models on a kind of contract basis.

Remember, Elon is in it for the challenge and the fun. Hard to do as a division of a major. Unless you're amused by the "pok!" of heads bouncing off walls.

@BrianH, Again thanks for the insight on Elon Musk. Just suppose he did decide to go full bore with simultaneous fronts highend and lowend {just for the fun and challange} because it looks like he is going to be definitely challenged by the big boys on the mass lowend mass production front. Think he might think it a challenge to work out a deal with a big capacity producer, retain technological leadership etc, etc. In other words car come out with Tesla name but say Susuki or someone actually making it to his specs. Much like Susuki does or did the Geo's for Chevrolet much to the bottom line advantage of both. You know that bottom line thing is fun to.

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