Forums

@bfadewole
Might not matter to you, but it does to some of us.

Warranty is a secondary point.

Let me give you another example. A lot of people on the planet have the same CPU that my computer has, but I'm not trading CPUs with them.

The Better Place model is based on scaring people about range, and also getting a share of their charging even when they charge at home! I think that the whole battery swapping thing will go away as soon as there are enough EV adopters to fight the misconceptions.

I hope it is more significant than a few Superchargers in California. I'm not sure where Tesla is going to get the revenue to put Superchargers in significant numbers nationwide without partnering with someone, be it Starbucks or McDonald's or whomever owns significant real estate nationwide in easily accessible locations

@brianman
I know you might have a point, but I unfortunately don't get it. It seems your reason(s) are more emotional ties to the battery than anything else IMO. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Your example is not quite analogous to the point in discussion. People don't exchange CPUs just because there is no need to and specifically, they have their data on the CPU's. IMHO, I think an example closer to home would be the exchange of home/office water delivery bottles. Its done because its faster but you can also decide to take the empty bottles to a filling station if you have an issue with using bottles that others have used.

Volker - California State Route 1 is great for sightseeing and surfing, but not for getting anywhere in a hurry. TM announced quite some time ago that they were going to upgrade their Harris Ranch charger http://carstations.com/3814 on Interstate 5 to a TM Supercharger but have been quite silent since the announcement. I would hope the July announcement would be a little more grand than just a few more Superchargers along that route. First deliveries of the 85kWh Sigs start next month. A Model S with the 85kWh battery begs to be driven cross country but we cannot do that in any practical way until TM builds out their Supercharger network or comes up with a way to leverage other vendor DC Fast chargers.

bfadewole, I think it's fair to get a little emotional over a $40k water delivery bottle... If brianman has an issue with it, it's not unlikely that other people will have the same issue. Whether that's rational or emotional doesn't even matter. If the prospective users don't feel comfortable with it, it won't work.

@Volker
I do understand the point that you make and also some users share, I just believe a polling of the users might show mixed opinion. For all its worth, people might be centrally divided on the issue in which case there could be a business point to be made by the likes of "Better Place". I for one would have no hassle exchanging my "shiny" new battery pack for a fully charged used one at a charge station in 5-10 minutes as long as it is understood that my original warranty is maintained. I would not even mind paying a slight premium for this service.

If there were a swap stations be prepared to pay quite a lot "premium" for that service. 90% of driving is less than 40 miles. That means less than 10% of cars would need that service compared to gas stations. You would need to have storage of batteries at the swap station instead of tank of gas, and robotics to do the swapping. You would need service personnel at every station to maintain it and very good security to prevent very expensive batteries being stolen. For that reason every swap station would cost a lot.

Every battery would need to be standardized, connectors, voltages, capacity and physical sizes, which is just stupid with currently fast developing battery techs. Alternative is that each station multiplies the amount of batteries to match all the different battery types that might be swapped there.

Math just doesn't work with that unless you pay a lot for each battery swap (by lease or per swap) so that infrastructure for that could be maintained. Project Better Place type system does not work in long term. It goes belly up very soon.

brianman;
swapping doesn't really work if you retain ownership of the battery. It would have to be TM-owned, and paid for by the kwh or day or SLT.

bfadewole;
CPUs have no data. They just process it. Memory has data.

Mr H hits it: ownership is the key component.

My example regarding CPUs was about wear and tear on the CPU from overclockers, for example. Not the motherboard, power supply, etc. the compromise the modern "personal computer" -- just the CPU.

Getting back to the original case...

When you spend $100K on a vehicle with roughly 40% estimated to be the battery, that battery is not a commodity that you're willing to just swap with a generic shared one. If the battery was $500, it might be a different story.