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Fiscal cliff and the 7500 tax rebate: Will it be on the chopping block?

I'm just wondering about thoughts on the $7500 tax rebate in light of the "fiscal cliff" we keep hearing about. Bets on its survival?
I have my "paperwork" but with too many unknowns, I have big doubts and won't sign. It seems too many questions are going unanswered. (I don't expect Tesla to have the answer on the tax rebate.) I have not even been assigned a person to help me. No person has contacted me or made any effort to talk with me. I had called with questions and the person was going to be getting "right back to me." That was probably two months ago now. The car is hugely expensive; now if it's going to cost another $7500, I'm thinking I might just have to wait for the mid-priced car with more advanced battery function and more accessible service and charging. EVERYTHING just is starting to feel so out of reach/out of control with the half-assed way some things are being handled. The lack of answers is what is pushing me away. Tesla needs to realize that people will adjust to whatever the answer will be, but their "limbo" tactic is not something that I have patience for when I am to fork over $90 grand...or will it be 97,500? I had real hope that when the bulletin board went up, we might actually get definitive answers to questions...the only problem with that is that they are choosing not to answer certain questions. That's fine. I can choose not to buy their car.

I would assume that if we do reach the fiscal cliff it will be cut but, if you finalize your car now then you may escape the price raise. That is if you have a reservation and are about to finalize your car. With less then 50k electric cars going to be sold in 2012 (and phevs) it would only cost the government 375 million in tax credits. Remember gm is getting about 14 billion in tax breaks in the years to come, that is equal to about 1.86 million electric car tax credits, not to mention the bailout. Since Obama is pro green energy I would expect him to protect it, he's actually going for 10k credit.

I have the same concern. Wish I could pay for the car this year to ensure I qualify but that's not an option. Just hoping it lasts this round as I'm already committed.

While I understand the concern, Obama's mandate for cleaner, greener cars makes me feel this is not something that will be cut or the govt. will have to back off the mandate. I am in for a 2013 credit too but am comitted now so will have to wait and see. The CA 2013 funding has been approved ($2500)...so at least those of us in CA should be good for 2013.

Does anyone know if California is giving a $2500 state credit for 2012 as well as 2013. Has anyone applied for and been approved for the California rebate?

The website

http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebat...

says there are funds left, but I haven't heard of anyone getting a rebate.

I never factored the tax ceedit into my decision to purchase the Model S. In the long run Tesla will have to be viable without it. You might want to consider changing your options if the price is to high without the tax credit. The range in price, depending on battery pack and options can easily be moved by more than the tax credit.

I have been approved for the $2,500 in CA

@brewdr - I bought a Leaf October 6. CA CVRP paperwork filed October 6. $2500 rebate check arrived November 5.

Great news on the CA rebate. Looks like there is 10 million still in the pot. At least 4,000 cars by my calculations. Would theoretically be more, as some cars get less than $2,500. Hope to get my production 85kw performance before it runs out. Thanks for quick response stevenmaifert and BYT.

@andrigtmiller |

"I never factored the tax ceedit into my decision to purchase the Model S. In the long run Tesla will have to be viable without it. You might want to consider changing your options if the price is to high without the tax credit. The range in price, depending on battery pack and options can easily be moved by more than the tax credit."

Ironically, the only reason I need to get the 300 mi pack is so that I can get to Boston to have it serviced! That is, of course, if they will be allowed to build a service center there. Right now, the closest is actually NYC. I am one of the few who do not live anywhere near 100 miles, let alone 50 miles from a service center.

Does anyone know of a website to "write your congressman/woman" about the necessity to keep the $7500 federal tax credit?

Every representative and senator has a website. Just google it under the name of your own rep.

Thanks DouglasR but I'm really looking for a central location that all PEV proponents could visit and "vote" (can't think of a better word) to show their support for the tax credit. Then the website would magically send emails to all the senators and representatives, not just those from my state.

Is what I'm describing a Facebook page? Surely there is an automated way to email our congresspeople with a link to the page to show how much support there is for this.

Maybe it's a bad idea. What if the number of Likes end up being = Model S reservation holders + N, where N is a small number?

With either a tax increase or a cap on deductions in the wind, is this really a good time to draw our elected representatives attention to a generous tax credit enjoyed mainly by folks wealthy enough to afford a Model S? Might be a good idea to let this one lay in the weeds until someone actually proposes doing away with it.

Either way, you'll have to fork over $97,500 when you buy the car. I'm assuming that you're not getting the car this year (since you haven't even ordered yet), so that means (assuming the rebate is still available) it will be 2014 before you will get that $7500 back, or else you might try reducing your withholdings so that you don't have as much income tax withheld over the course of the year, but either way, you're not going to see that full $7500 rebate soon.

If the difference between $90k and $98k is such a huge deal, then maybe you should order the 60kwh battery.

@stevenmaifert - You could be right, but don't forget about the Leafs and Volts of the world. Let's hope they don't remove or phase out the credit for vehicles above a certain MSRP! That would be "progressive", like our tax system. Yeeecchhhhh.

@Getting Amped Soon - Haven't forgot about the Leafs. I bought one last month :) Already have the $2500 CA rebate in hand, and am waiting for Jan. 1 to file for the Federal credit. I'm with you on any future changes... P2860 and don't expect to see my Model S until after the first of the year.

Well, I just got the news I didn't want, but at least it is the official word, and for that I am grateful. It seems that any tire change, whether mounted on a rim or not, needs to be done at a Tesla service center according to the bulletin board post. This means changing any flat or just switching winter to summer tires and back again, would require a drive of 200(Boston)-300(NYC) miles one way. I'll sit on this information for a few days, but I think this means that my dream has been shattered, and I need to pull out of my reservation. I had been getting some pretty crazy answers like: Oh, rangers will come to you, borrow a local lift at a garage, and you'll be all set! I do wish Tesla would simplify some of the electronics. It seems to complicate issues that shouldn't have to be complicated, as in the tires and again with the door handles. Heart-broken in Vermont.

bsimoes;
that was a pretty general posting; I suspect your "Ranger + local lift" scenario is the equivalent.

It's only once for the TMPS to get sync'd up. Once those sensors are registered with the onboard computer you don't need to do it again.

so do you get a &7500 tax credit for changing to winter tires.

"When you purchase a set of winter wheels and tires, a Tesla Service Technician will install them for free and reset the tire pressure monitoring system. If you prefer to have your winter wheel and tire set sent to your home, no problem, but you will still need to visit a Tesla Service center for tire pressure monitoring system resets, alignments and mounting."

@Brian--I don't understand your message.

@Vawlkus--The above is cut and pasted from the b-board. When it says that we will still need to visit service for resets, alignments and mounting, it sounds like we need to go in any time a tire is changed. This is what alarms me; To do this would take a weekend, cost a night's stay, and use almost one-tenth of my mileage alottment before needing servicing again, if the trip is done twice a year. Personally, I think that anyone who lives any distance from a service center needs to question what they are willing to do in order to have this car. If true, this is my line in the sand.

@mbcaffe--please don't kick me when I'm down.

@bsimoes
I apologize. Just trying to get the thread back on track. However, you are right, Tesla will need to expand their network quickly to be a viable car company.

The federal tax credit will stay in effect. Check the US Department of Energy web-site: www.fueleconomy.gov for information. This credit is current law and has a specified phase out that is indexed to the number of vehicles produced. Remember this! A credit is used once during the tax year that the qualified vehicle is placed into service. You must have a federal tax liability of more than $7,500 in order to gain the entire advantage of this credit. It is not a rebate. If you end up owing $6,000 on your return you can use your credit and pay $0 more but the credit was only "worth" $6,000 to you.

Does anyone know whether the federal (or state too, for that matter) tax credit is applied to the year that the car is purchased (if I were to pay for my Model S now), or when I take delivery (Jan-Feb)? I'd like to get my credit for the 2012 year, and if paying for it now would make that work, I'll do it. If there's no way to make that work I guess that I'll wait for delivery before paying.

It's been posted that you can't pay in advance, plus the IRS considers that you "acquire" the vehicle when it is titled in your state.

From the IRS website (I cut some stuff out):

Section 3. SCOPE OF NOTICE

The new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit determined under this notice applies to plug-in electric drive motor vehicles that—

(1) Are placed in service by the taxpayer in a taxable year beginning after December 31, 2009;

(2) Are acquired by the taxpayer after December 31, 2009; and

(3) Otherwise meet the requirements of § 30D.

Section 4. MEANING OF TERMS

.07 Acquired. A vehicle is not “acquired” before the date on which title to that vehicle passes under state law.

Getting Amped Soon,

Thanks for the info. That tells me that I won't be getting my tax rebate until 2013 tax year. Oh well, maybe it'll get raised to $10K by then.

mklcolin: It is not a rebate! It is a credit if you do not have a federal tax liability that is greater than $7,500 you will not realize the full benefit of this credit... I know why all the EV and PHEV companies quote their prices as if everyone will get the full benefit of this federal tax credit; however, I think it is deceptive because many buyers will not gain the full amount because their federal tax liability will be less than $7,500.

If you can afford a Tesla, and have a tax liability under $7500, please speak up. I need to know what I am doing wrong.

^Speaking. I own a small consulting company and pay estimated taxes quarterly. Therefore, I can manipulate how much I pay, to within a certain extent and IRS guidelines. Usually, toward the 3rd and 4th Quarters of each year I can compare where my income may likely stand by year's relative to the past few years for the company, and determine what I need to be paying in taxes. It can be a double-edge sword at times, especially when we have corporate clients that wish to pre-pay by year's end for services to be performed in the next year. This gets the money in their current budget year, but kind of leaves me hanging with a big tax bill if I wasn't prepared for it.

To clarify, you don't have to OWE $7500 at the end of the year to get the credit. If you paid in$7500 or more in taxes during the year, you qualify even if you otherwise are getting a rebate. It just adds $7500 to your rebate amount.


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