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Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act

Don't want to start a new flame war, but I've just noticed a couple of comments to the "service" blog post talking about mandatory service required to maintain the warranty mentioning Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
I bet we have future (or even current) owners with a legal background here.
Any comments ?

Could someone please point me to the car mechanic, dealer or manufacturer that will come to your house and service your car that post their fees. Any at all... no matter what the price? I am sure there are a few. I'm not looking for friends or family. I mean a company that's trying to make profit. If you find one I'd like to compare prices. That way we get and apple to apples comparison. Even the cheaper Tesla plan has a cheap $100 fee for work done outside the repair facility. I've found one place but no prices:
http://www.mikeshomeautorepair.com/Home_Page.php
I'd be temped to send him the bottom of this post 7,500 and 15,000 service required for a GM car and see what he'd charge to do the work at my house.

All car manufacturers have a long service list. Most don't screw you in the rear like BMW and make you take it to a high cost facility buy hiding the extremely high service fees in the cost of the car. You can take your car to any certified mechanic and get service done at a much cheaper price, except with BMW. Do they do it right, who knows, but typically the warranty is upheld either way as long as the mechanic was certified.

The only thing that makes Tesla different is the lack of certified repair locations that are not Tesla's. This will change as more of the cars are purchased. Costs will come down. Like many have indicated. As supply increases and demand decreases something will give. You want the first car you pay for it.

I have also noticed that no one has posted any of the prepaid plan cost for other cars in the Tesla class, maybe I have just missed them. Everyone just keeps point at BMW.

GM vehicle service at 7,500 miles.

Rotate the tires, if recommended for the vehicle.
Check engine oil level and oil life percentage. If needed, change engine oil and filter, and reset oil life system.
Check engine coolant level.
Check windshield washer fluid level.
Visually inspect windshield wiper blades for wear, cracking, or contamination. Replace worn or damaged wiper blades.
Check tire inflation pressures.
Inspect tire wear.
Visually check for fluid leaks.
Inspect engine air cleaner filter.
Inspect brake system.
Visually inspect steering, suspension, and chassis components for damaged, loose, or missing parts or signs of wear.
Check restraint system components.
Visually inspect fuel system for damage or leaks.
Visually inspect exhaust system and nearby heat shields for loose or damaged parts.
Lubricate body components.
Check starter switch.
Check automatic transmission shift lock control function.
Check ignition transmission lock.
Check parking brake and automatic transmission park mechanism.
Check accelerator pedal for damage, high effort, or binding. Replace if needed.
Visually inspect gas strut for signs of wear, cracks, or other damage. Check the hold open ability of the strut. See your dealer if service is required.
Check tire sealant expiration date, if equipped.
Inspect sunroof track and seal, if equipped.
Verify spare tire key lock operation and lubricate as needed.

GM service at 15,000 miles
Rotate the tires, if recommended for the vehicle.
Check engine oil level and oil life percentage. If needed, change engine oil and filter, and reset oil life system.
Check engine coolant level.
Check windshield washer fluid level.
Visually inspect windshield wiper blades for wear, cracking, or contamination. Replace worn or damaged wiper blades.
Check tire inflation pressures.
Inspect tire wear.
Visually check for fluid leaks.
Inspect engine air cleaner filter.
Inspect brake system.
Visually inspect steering, suspension, and chassis components for damaged, loose, or missing parts or signs of wear.
Check restraint system components.
Visually inspect fuel system for damage or leaks.
Visually inspect exhaust system and nearby heat shields for loose or damaged parts.
Lubricate body components.
Check starter switch.
Check automatic transmission shift lock control function.
Check ignition transmission lock.
Check parking brake and automatic transmission park mechanism.
Check accelerator pedal for damage, high effort, or binding. Replace if needed.
Visually inspect gas strut for signs of wear, cracks, or other damage. Check the hold open ability of the strut. See your dealer if service is required.
Check tire sealant expiration date, if equipped.
Inspect sunroof track and seal, if equipped.
Verify spare tire key lock operation and lubricate as needed.

Tesla is not competing with GM at this point, they are way outside that price range.

Your right sergiyz so the cost for all that GM work should be extremely cheaper than the Tesla... and it's not. My 2000 Saturn L300 service package cost $1670 extra (50,000 mile) and it did not include any wipers, brakes, etc.

@sudre
Tesla's math does work out in the end, I've provided my own calculations on a different thread.
It's still cheaper than a gas car over the same 4 years, but that's not the point.
It's how it's structured. It will take a lot of convincing and getting used to for people switching from ICE to EVs.

As far as demand goes, there will be demand for the current volume.
Porsche is selling about 30,000 cars a year in the US, and it's not cheap.
If Tesla moves into a larger market, things will have to be adjusted.

One thing should be kept in mind before settling on an opinion, here. No one has experienced a year or two of $475-600/year service for the Model S yet. Roadster owners were equally at a loss on its inception, and we have heard little but praise for what it bought them.

Concluding up front it is a callous cash grab because "everything but the tires" doesn't have any flesh on the bones yet is ... premature cynicism. IMO.

Brian,

I tend to agree with that. A lot of folks just do an oil change and assume that's everything the car needs and then they sell it when things start breaking. Using this methodology they pay $100 to $200 per year and that makes Tesla's plan look expensive. If they did all the maintenance the manufacturer actually calls for and replace items that fail on a periodic basis (hoses, water pumps, etc.) the cost would be far higher. Based on the Roadster forums, that's what Tesla does. $600 per year (or per 12,000 miles) isn't out of line unless you put very few miles on your car. That's what my Prius has cost (and I do similar maintenance to what Tesla does). Maintenance on the TDI I had cost about 3x what it costs for the Prius.

The only question about the Model S maintenance is what the charge will be for the second four years. It shouldn't be any higher than the first four.

"It's basically a systems check," came the answer. "But we haven't received the documentation yet on precisely what we'll be doing. When we get it, I'll be happy to send you a copy."

And that's precisely the issue.

Sudre_: In some states they do have laws above and beyond Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. I am not sure how Tesla plans to get around those.

Since Tesla doesn't have "dealerships" per se, and all their vehicles are either picked up at the factory or delivered after being paid for, I wonder if any state law other than California applies? Any lawyers out there want to comment?

I find it interesting that so many people are against this charge, yet I’ve seen few real world examples of what people have spent on service/repairs over many years.
In my case, I just sold my 2004 Volvo XC70 and I kept a record of all service costs over 9 years ownership which I've summarized the numbers below.
First number = I paid, second number = Extended warranty paid
2012 $908 $1,179
2011 $294 $0
2010 $1,050 $6,963
2009 $1,496 $6,231
2008 $298 $70
2007 $629 $518
2006 $319 $21
2005 $1,035 $576
2004 $0 $0
Total $6,029 $15,558
Average I paid per yr $669
Average warrant paid per year $1,728
Bottom line, over 9 years, I paid $6,029 and the warranty work paid was over $15k (mostly after the 4 year factory warranty expired). Including the cost to purchase 2 extended warranties, my total out of pocket was $11k, an average $1.2k a year.
Ok, so I know my car was a Ford era Volvo, but I don't think these numbers are that different to many real life experiences I hear people talk about, so in my view, Tesla's offering is a no brainer, particularly adding in the convenience of Tesla Rangers coming to my home and the positive experiences people have reported with them.
Cheers

Do you have a record of what's been serviced or at least what percentage was related to the engine and transmission ?
I'd guess close to 70% if not more.
And you've still spent about $600 out of pocket a year.
Now if you take the first four years it's even less, since you didn't have to pay for the warranty.
Tesla should not have engine or transmission related services.
From Elon's response it looks like they've based their pricing by taking something from Daimler and making it slightly cheaper over multiple years although your potential savings are not realized unless you keep your car for at least 4 years, and there are a lot of parts an EV simply doesn't have.
I'll reserve my opinion until I see it all in action since they don't have a documented schedule yet.
Unfortunately there's still a lot of unknowns and Tesla are either reusing what they've done with roadsters or testing the market (it's worth what people pay).
The survey numbers are interesting, with only 9% thinking it's a good deal.

I do have the breakdown.

Transmission was $6,500, all paid on extended warranty except $150 copay.

My out of pocket costs are still around $11k and about $8k in extended warranty work.

The other work was ball joints, control arm bushings, engine mounts, window problems, fuel door, key fault plus normal servicing costs. Much of the warranty work was related to chassis vs ICE engine issues.

I had a Ford focus 2000, and over the 9 year I own it, it cost me 10,000 CAD in repair, and I had more cover by the extended bumper to bumper warranty (not included in the 10,000) So overall, 600 $ per year is a good deal.
However on the 5 first years it cost me 2,500 $, so less than 600$ per year.
So the 600$ per year seems to be fair over 8 years, but not really over 4 years...

toto;
$2500/5 = $500. How does that compare to $475? ($1900/4) ;)

Furthermore, you had to drive the Focus for 5 yrs.!!
(;p

Brian, I fully agree with you, that's why I'll take the 4 year plan, but I would like to have a 6 or 8 year plan too.

The big issue here is the branded service tie-in.

Tesla needs to produce a *list* of what sort of maintenance needs to be done on the car in order to maintain the warranty, and the words "Tesla certified" can't be part of that list.

If Tesla fails to tell customers exactly what needs to be done to maintain the warranty, Tesla has to honor the warranty no matter what customers do, or Tesla will proceed to lose lawsuits.

If Tesla claims that customers need to use "Tesla certified" service to maintain their warranty, then Tesla loses more lawsuits and gets nailed to the wall, because that's strictly illegal.

(Or Tesla needs to go to the FTC and get that waiver.)


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