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Marketing Claims

I don't know about anyone else (actually I do) but I've been following this car for a very long time. And throughout that entire time Tesla has boldly, and repeatedly made the claim that they could deliver an all electric sedan that could go from 0-60 in 5.6 seconds for $49,900 (after incentives). Did they? I say they didn't. In fact they say so right on their options listing page. Yet, maybe because we love the car so much, none of us are willing to say anything about this? Shouldn't we be honest enough to call this what it is, regardless of our support for the car?

Robpaul - I retired before 40, in silicon valley. Next?

@mscottring,
So what? We are all successful. Big deal. That's how we can afford to consider an expensive car at a time when many can't put food on the table. You've created five new topics and dozens of posts all because of your erroneous assumption over 0.9 seconds? So you assumed all versions of the car would have the same acceleration and they don't. Big deal. They will all still run like a V8.

Here's the big picture my friend. We're making history here (if the Model S is successful). It blows my mind that you would trash the company, and kill the dream, and send us back to another 100 years of big oil, all over 0.9 seconds? Think it through. Give it a rest.

There's a lot more at stake here than 0.9 seconds.

test

Hey I can post after three weeks!!! :) Excuse me for my "test" reply.

On Topic again!

I understand (a bit) where mscottring is coming from. But please keep in mind that we all haven't bought anything yet.

This is the first time in my life that I paid money to get in line for a car. If you told me a year ago that I was going to pay to get in line for a car I would have laughed and told you that in my life this would never happen. Well the truth is different, I paid to get in line only to be part of something that is going to be the next big thing as the iPhone.

When I made my reservation I looked at the battery size as if it was a smaller or bigger gas tank. But now I understand that the battery pack is part of the engine size. Bigger battery pack is bigger engine size.

10k for each second faster from 0-60 is a lot of money, but in this case it gives you a bigger range too. Let's be honest, how many times a day do you floor it and go from 0-60 as fast as possible in your current car? Once a week? Once every day. I couldn't care if it is 6,5, 5,6 or 4,4. In everyday driving it would only mean an empty battery quicker.

If Tesla sold your reservation on a 5,6 0-60 time with the smallest pack and it is 6,5 and you can't live with it I think you should reconsider the whole car. Have we been misled or betrayed? No, the car still has to be produced, we haven't bought anything yet and we can all get a refund of our money. Things would have been different if the car already was on your driveway and you would have found the slower 0-60 out.

So let's all take a deep breath and start looking for the things we love about the car. Therefore I would love to hear what the standard package includes with the car.

Why are people so threatened when someone points out some (even minor) disappointment? The cult of Tesla was sort of fun to get caught up in for awhile, but the ugly side is coming out here. Many of you are exhibiting a disturbing love it or leave it attitude. How about some tolerance and understanding. We are pretty emotional about this product (and yes, I can now say we since I am now P 6299), and it is sometimes not going to meet everyone's expectations. Failure to meet expectations means disappointment, even if temporary or mild. Feeling like expectations were caused by someone who did not meet them means anger. These are not unique or unfamiliar concepts. There is little use in pointing out why the person's expectations were unrealistic while they are still hurting.

Oh, and repeated posts saying essentially "you post too much on this" is among the least appreciated topics across the Internet. Yes, I am aware of the irony of this post.

Guys, IMO nobody is right or wrong here. True it was a deception for me that the base car (my pick) will be slower and is different from advertized. This is not enough to change my mind though. Most of us suffer from quasi unconditional love for the car. This is only an example that we need to be raisonable. We all have a level of tolerance that we are not ready to go over for the love of the car (compare this to the women of your dream, really beautiful, but not ready to endure anything to stick with her)

By the way

First time I get in line/pay a reservation fee for a car. It means I believe in the car. However it is the first time I will pay that much money for a car and for that reason I am not ready for too much compromize.

In my own decision balance: Strike one is the supercharger network, strike 2 is the 1 sec acceleration difference and the fact that I will have to wait until 2013 for sure to get the car. Waiting for Canadian pricing and winter condition performance which could be strike 3.

Come on car guys. You should be aware that there have been numerous controversies about 0-60 time with numerous excellent manufacturers. There has been confusion about 0-60 mph vs 0-100 km/hr. There have been numerous instances where the manufacturers claim differs from a reviewers number. There has been controversy about with or without launch control. There has been discussion about base model / price vs optioned model / price. There has been outrage over what tires were used for the quoted specifications. Etc, Etc. Give it a break. Understand the situation and have a good holiday season looking forward to an S or not.

The 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds is still faster than my 1999 BMW 328i. It cost new about $57,400 with NO government incentives (I bought it used).

David - "You've created five new topics and dozens of posts all because of your erroneous assumption over 0.9 seconds?"

False. Try sticking to the facts.

If there's one thing I've learned through the decades it's this. When the conversation turns from attacking the message to attacking the messenger, there's usually more than a little truth to the message.

What's with the "300 mile pack required"? Doesn't the 230 also do 5.6? It's only the 160 which is underpowered to reach that.

The 60kw pack does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds. The only battery pack that does 0-60 in 5.6 is the 85kwh.

It's my understanding that the lower level battery packs could potentially hit this 5.6 benchmark, but most likely not often (and I'm not sure this is correct, could be speculation). There are technical reasons why the lower battery packs can't do it, and I totally understand why.

While there has been rather extensive effort to make this issue about me in some way, it isn't. I've tried, through various posts, to make it clear that this complaint has nothing at all to do with me, my love of the car, or my decision to buy the car. People are missing the big picture here, in my opinion. Tesla is trying to gain trust with the world, not an easy thing to do for a young start up automotive company. Missteps will be amplified, by the media, and most certainly by the ICE vehicle manufacturers, who really would rather not see Tesla succeed. So, while it can be argued that this issue means nothing to those of us on this forum who have the means to buy whichever Model S they prefer to buy, give a moment to pause. Now think about the rest of the world, and those who were anxiously waiting for a new electric car that they thought (whether rightly or wrongly) that was going to meet all of these specifications at the amazingly low price of only $49,900.

@mscottring,
You may have lost track of all of the new topics you created in the last two days. Looking at the Model S forum topics, in the column that is titled "Created", it clearly shows you have created five separate topics in the last 2 days, to discuss the same complaint. Each of those topics holds a dozen or more posts by you. In some cases 3 or 4 in a row.

Unfortunately this is FACT.

I am no fan of paying $4 a gallon for gas. And I do not want our kids paying $8 to $10 a gallon in 10 or 15 years because we were all too short sighted to make an investment in alternatives for the future. So Tesla is leading the charge and dragging the industry forward. There are lots of EV haters who want to maintain status quo, but there are few supporters. We each must decide where we stand. This is a fragile moment.

David - I can actually read. This is the ONLY topic I created with the specific intent of discussing the 0-60 issue. I have created other topics, but not to discuss this issue. Please stick to the facts.

David - Here's what I don't get. Overall, since I first joined this forum, my comments have been extremely positive about the Model S. I've made repeated comments about the car, and how great it is, on multiple threads, multiple times. Nobody is counting those positive comments, and making negative comments about how many times I say something positive. Yet, if I have ANYTHING negative to say, let the counting begin? This is crazy. People have a right to their opinion. Don't like it, don't read it. But don't keep trying to find some way to shut those negative comments down, simply because you disagree with them.

@mscottring,
Fair enough. I've had some negative posts too, but we can't forget the press reads these too, and they don't give a hoot about our positive posts. That's not news. Negative news sells. They want anything they can get to fuel the fire and support their claims that nobody wants EVs.

I've been disappointed on occasion with some of Tesla's decisions (like the beta dashboard, and lately the Tech pkg), but I keep reminding myself that there are much bigger things going on, as we all know. The EV1 and RAV4 EV came and went for really stupid (and self-serving) reasons. Think of how much further along we would be now, had we not lost those 10 years.

David - Again, I love the car. I can't wait to get my hands on it, and I'm a huge proponent of if. I've told I don't know how many people they need to get on this reservation list, now, today. I'm a firm believer in the company, the car and the technology. I see your point about the press. But that's what was lost in all of this. My goal is to bring issues to Tesla's attention, so that they can react to it, BEFORE the press can have anything to say about it. I WANT Tesla to succeed.

test

test

Taking 5 min during my christmas party...

i believe the 0-60mph is not the only thing that Telsa didn't deliver on. the 30 min charge is also something not available on the 49K version, and it was advertised doing so.

Merry Christmas to all. Barely made it with a white Christmas this year. next year, I hope to receive my TMS at that same time

David M. | December 24, 2011 new

@mscottring,
Fair enough. I've had some negative posts too, but we can't forget the press reads these too, and they don't give a hoot about our positive posts. That's not news. Negative news sells. They want anything they can get to fuel the fire and support their claims that nobody wants EVs.

I've been disappointed on occasion with some of Tesla's decisions (like the beta dashboard, and lately the Tech pkg), but I keep reminding myself that there are much bigger things going on, as we all know. The EV1 and RAV4 EV came and went for really stupid (and self-serving) reasons.

Not so stupid; they were losing money hand over fist on them. I think much of Elon's genius is having been able to avoid that. Remember the $90K Roadster that cost $140K to build? Getting that under control put the Fear of Dog into him!

;)

BTW, is there a private TM forums between only TM and owners? I agree with both mscottring and brian's posts. I want TM to succeed, but I'd like to point out (and hopefully give them time to correct or address owner issues) in private without any random person reading these forums.

Hi Jerry,

This forum has a private message feature that can only be read by owners and reservation holders.

Larry

Jerry, there is no "owners" only forum. You're pretty much limited to emails and phone calls with your Tesla reps.


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