I understand I can't sell my place in line, but I would be interested in selling my new Model S immediately upon taking delivery. Anyone interested?
Besides being "how it works", it doesn't harm anyone. that is if you are number 7000 and you trade with number 2500 for $4500 ($1 per position) number 6999 is still 6999, pays the original price and his delivery date doesn't alter.
This is totally different than the "market adjustment" made by the Prius dealers where they raised the price because some fools would pay it. This causes harm to those who won't pay it because they have to wait.
Well, I guess there is quite a difference in perspectives here. And I, and only I, see this as "not fair" on two grounds.
One, the rules changed at the last minute. Not a good thing. My wife and I had save and put aside a whole lot of our earnings for this car. And we aren't sure we would use it that much at all. We both live and work in the city; we take the public transportation all the time. So not much of a practical reason to get this car.
Two, I am one of those idealists who wish for common good. Even if it means that I have to take a smaller share. Coming from where I did, I have life experiences where I have seen people getting away with just about anything because they can pay their way. Getting coveted jobs and college admissions to child slavery and dowry deaths. They pay a bribe and everything is covered up. Granted that this reservation spot trading is no where near all these sins.
Perhaps, this common good, or at least the hope of, that these green cars can bring is the reason why we are still in this. Guess, I have to let go and stop being such an idealist. I will, however, express my thoughts to Tesla about this apparent change.
I agree about the rules change thing, but I'm not sure that a no-swapping rule could be enforced if someone called them on it.
As far as the bribe goes, as I said, if it was done the way the Prius dealers did it, then I'd 100% agree with you because people are harmed. The way Tesla does it harms no one (two people swap places).
Who is harmed here?
It would be far different if someone purchased the first 1500 cars and resold them at very high prices.
I'd warn the OP that selling cars is a heavily regulated business and simply intending to purchase and sell for profit can make you a dealer in some places.
Yer all expoiter swine! I can't afford one, but it would be "fair" if everyone got the same. Considering the demand, about 1/10,000 of a Model 'S'. You fat cats pay for all of it, of course.
I choose to take the moral high ground here.....unfortunately there isn't any :)
Wow...Just want to swap my place in line...
Let me know if you are interested.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill...
dstong, At least be honest with your post. If all you wanted to do was switch your place in line then why the charge to do so? You are looking to make some money on the swap. I personally don't have an issue with you doing that if someone feels it is worth that much. Personally I would be willing to give you a small fee to reimburse you for lost opportunity cost of your money. But that would be all.
Theresa, you may have skipped some of this thread which is understandable because it has grown quite long. It must be said that dstong is honest and was all along. He wants to swap places in line to make a profit in the process, and then cancel his new place to get the down payment refunded. That's apparently the easiest way to "sell" a place in line when you actually want to back out of your reservation.
I think that he made a mistake. (Actually I think he's making a mistake now... from what I've read Model S sounds like a great choice.) Now, instead of simply taking a refund, he hopes to make money out of it. I guess that's the American dream. In his situation I'd just take the refund. Maybe everyone in line behind him should chip in 10 cents for their earlier delivery.
How many cars per day are we projecting will be rolling off the line by the time his reservation comes up? If he can't sell his reservation and cancels it, that will move people behind him in line up, what, an hour? On the other hand, if he can get a few bucks for it, why not? He made a $5k bet that was by no means a 100% sure thing and now his situation is changed. I see no problem with him getting something in exchange for it. If everyone in line before me sells their reservation at a huge profit because there is such enormous pent-up demand for the Model S I still get mine at the same time, and oh-by-the-way it's worth a pile more than it would be if 1000 people cancel their reservations and I get my Model S a month early.
Volker, I did read all the postings and did understand that he has wanted to sell his spot during the course of this thread but his last posting said all he wanted to do was to swap spots which is the part I was saying he wasn't being honest about. If all you want to do is swap positions then no money needs to be exchanged.
I really don't care if he sells his spot or not. That is the American way (to make a profit any way you can) and I am not going to fault him for that. If I had the excess money to tie up for a few years as he apparently has I may have done the same.
This is one of those threads that you will never get consensus on. Opinions are like bung holes, everyone has one and to that I say, "to each his/her own!"
We live in a free country, we have options, yet we also have rules to abide by, parameters and guidelines to live by as well. I am not better then the person to the right or left of me and so I will not pass judgement. I frankly find as I get older that worrying about things beyond my control will just lead to more stress and less control of a life of healthy longevity. Like Rodney Dangerfield said, "Kuh-kuh-can't we all just...get along?" :D
@BYT: Rodney King.
Or was it "I don't get no respect"? :)
LOL, apparently I can't get my facts straight... :D It was Rodney King, thanks Ohms.Law and I think it was Rodney Dangerfield who said,
I tell ya, I get no respect from anyone. I bought a cemetery plot. The guy said, “There goes the neighborhood!"
Or "I get no respect. The way my luck is running, if I was a politician I would be honest." thanks DouglasR and RIP Rodney Dangerfield who hopefully is now getting a little bit more respect, maybe I should apologize for misquoting him, huh?
And if you want a movie reference, Jack Nicholson in "Mars Attacks" said the same thing ("Can't we just all get along?) just before the Martians blew him away. An incredibly funny movie(IMHO).
I like Jack Nicholson, not a Lakers fan as he is however... :D
dstong I have no problem with you selling your position.... actually you should put this on e-bay and clearly explain what it is.
Someone is selling their model S for $21k EXTRA!! It has 6 bids. They are not selling the reservation either. They are selling the car to the bidder with a mark up of whatever they win the bid for. The bidder still has to configure and pay the retail price for the car. In short the total cost of the car will be: car cost + winning bid + transportation fee. WOW
I seriously considered putting $5k down on a second spot. The economy sucked, Tesla offered a one page contract that said I could get my money back at any time, and worst case scenario I make zero money (provided Teala didn't go belly up). My wife talked me out of it. Considering that I could have made $21k, I should have done it. I don't know if that would have made me anything other than a saavy investor. I don't think it is dishonest or greedy to sell a spot in line. We all realized the potential of this vehicle and took a chance. There is no reason I can see for not rewarding that foresight. Your number is your number. Those with an earlier number should be able to do whatever Tesla will let them. I won't get my car any later if people swap spots in front of me. I would prefer for my own sake that they just drop out and I would get my car sooner, but I would also prefer that everyone in front of me dropped out and I would get my car tomorrow.
Electric, The way things are right now even if everyone dropped I don't think you would get your car tomorrow. ;) I am sure you have seen the threads talking about the door handles. So we all get to wait. How does that mantra go? Oooommmm Oooommmm Oooommmm Are we all relaxed now?
@Sudre_ | AUGUST 29, 2012: Someone is selling their model S for $21k EXTRA!! It has 6 bids.
Before getting too excited, I checked eBay and the only thing I see on eBay is someone selling their spot in line ($12,100 currently) with 6 bids:
Still seems like allot to spend for a better spot in line.
Well, I'm still a very high signature, you all have to wait until I get mine first... :)
OH YEAH, and you bet I'm keeping it too! :D
Alex that is it. I reversed the numbers when I typed and.... well there is no edit.
They are not selling their place in line. They can not sell that. If you read it carefully they are selling the car. They will let you log on to their account and configure the car how you want it.
"The winning bidder can configure the car the way he/she wants."
"When I receive the car you will get it as you configured it."
then listed under shipping: "Buyer responsible for vehicle pick-up or shipping."
@sudre_ Well, with respect to the eBay sale, I don't see how that can work the way. Is Tesla going to title the car in the "buyer's" name? If so, how is that not going to look like the sale of a reservation slot? It seems to me that the reservation holder would have to take delivery (and title) and then transfer it to the eBay bidder.
There's another case too:
Once you have an active order, you can't really cancel, since you'd lose $10,000 (non-refundable).
What if you've given up waiting and have a better use for the money, especially a Signature that requires a $40,000 deposit.
While waiting for the car to be delivered eventually and then selling it is an option, it's not a very good one...
Looking at the list of currently known issues it's possible they won't be able to deliver even just the Sigs before year's end.
I'm having second thoughts...
Federal tax break is on vehicles that are not intended for resale. Doing this transaction and taking the tax break is illegal as I understand it.
You can toss out the Federal Tax Credit in these transactions and I do see headaches in doing a transfer.
I hope and pray that you are wrong about that sergiyz, I have everything set to get my signature this year and will have to adjust a lot if I can't. I fully expect TM to do right with the signature holders and the early productions and get to that 5k Model S ready to deliver number by December 31st having worked out all issues and ramped up production to realize the commitment.
I really believe that TM learned a lot from building the Roadster and all those issues they ran into. True it's a different ball game now that they are running a production line, but no different in how they deal with issues. Even while considering it's a whole new set of issues.
Hope this isn't a repost, hit submit once but didn't seem to take...
I might be totally wrong, but won't the Ebay poster have to pay the sales tax on the car, and then the winning bidder will have to pay sales tax on the now "used" car? I believe at least in California any time a vehicle changes hands (unless it's a gift) the sales tax has to be paid by the purchaser unless he/she is a dealer.
Anybody have any clarification on this?
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