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My Take on George's Response to Maintenance - Yes, another post

This is my take on George response at http://tinyurl.com/8zf383e

First and foremost I appreciate GeorgeB adding color to maintenance/warranty blog, herewith some outtakes that I want to comment on.

So, to answer the question clearly about whether failure to do Annual or 12,500 mile Inspections voids your warranty, yes it does.
I think many of us can attest to fact to that OEMs rarely void warranties in practice if you don't service your vehicle with them. I've never had an issue, neither did anyone I know in my life where OEM made me pay for repair and yet I've never felt the need to pay more than 100 for a simple oil change or 300 for pads I do my own oil changes and brake jobs and I think many others choose avenues other than dealer/stealer.

Wiper blades, brake pads, brake fluid, and light bulbs are all included.
Let's face it, other than wiper blades, brake pads, brake fluid, and light bulbs what else is really going to fail on this EV. These are among best build cars in the world, quality is superb that's why we pay 50K-100K. Even then items referenced above will likely need to be replaced every second or 3rd year, which begs the question as to why 600/yr. The crux of the matter that TSLA is missing is that we had an expectation that maintenance will be lower than ICE vehicles not on par or higher, hence the disappointing responses. BMW - no maintenance for 4yrs, however I'm sure it's baked into MSRP anyway.

We provide 24/7 Roadside Assistance 50mi
Just about all of us already have this with your normal vehicle insurance or AAA at minimal cost.

I think my single biggest fear is that the 600/yr will remain in place for Gen3 vehicle and paying 600 annual maintenance on 30K EV to maintain your warranty just does not seem right to me.

Anyway, that's where I stand on this one, I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I'm still huge Tesla fan and share holder and Elon fan boy.

The crux of the matter that TSLA is missing is that we had an expectation that maintenance will be lower than ICE vehicles not on par or higher, hence the disappointing responses.

+1

There are some other things to fail: door handles, pano roof motor, fob, wheel bearings and lots of other stuff. The question is the probability of failure. Like someone else said the$600/yr is like insurance. I'm thinking health insurance. If you don't get sick you don't need it. If you do get sick you may be able to afford the doctor's bill. But maybe not.

Let me ask a question:

Do you take your ICE car to the blacksmith or horse-buggy-repair guy for maintenance?

Tesla makes a quality product and signature folks pay can pay handsomely some more than $100K for that...

If my door handle or key fail... (that's pretty big if)

A) That would really suck
B) Would it cost you more than $600 to repair?

Interesting odds.

Door handles, pano roof or awesome key are perfect examples of things that should be covered regardless of maintenance fee is paid or not. Why should I pay maintenance fee to keep those items under warranty? What maintenance is being done to door handles or to your key? - NADA

Speaking of expectations... We have an expectation that Model S is/will be a quality product but it's only been in the wild for three months. It's way too soon to make any objective evaluation of quality in spite of all the hype and sticker price. It's not enough that Elon is personally inspecting the first cars off the line. Those cars need to be on the road awhile. The Toyota Camry has a decent reputation for quality, but that took years to build.

I, for one, am very impressed with George's response to our concerns about the Service Plan Requirement. His response was very detailed and shows a high level of concern not only about our questions, but about the well being of our Model S's as well.

Thank you George.

PS My company bought a new Front End Loader 2 months ago, and within a week it had a hydraulic leak. It was fixed "free" under warranty, but $309 was charged for mechanic travel time to and from my business in Chicago.

True

The Roadster quality turned out quite well.

With Model S Elon and his team is obsessed with building quality product but you're right time will confirm that.

Everything I've seen/read about their quality control looks like they're going extra mile, let's hope that doesn't change with volume.

OK... I am sick of dozens of threads on the same active subject popping up. It really makes it difficult to get everything in one place. There was NO reason to start another.

If $600 or $1900 for 4 years is too much then DON"T DO THE SERVICE.

I keep seeing posts on how there is NOTHING to fail in an EV. There is NO maintenance or things don't break. If that is the case don't get the car serviced and you don't need a warranty because there is NOTHING to break and if it does break it is cheaper to just fix it yourself then spend $475 a year for maintenance.

Now if you come back with, "oh I have to get the service to keep the warranty in case something breaks.", you just shot your argument in the foot because things to break or where out in EVs.

Take your Nissan Leaf to Jiffy Lube and tell them to service it for you. They will look at you like you are nuts.
Go by Midas and tell them you want your Prius battery pack inspected for wear. They will give you weird looks.

These places will want a part of the EV market and they will get trained people sooner or later. Right now you are stuck with the dealer unless you have training in 40-85kW battery repair you won't be doing this job in your garage.

Sudre maybe you should calm down a little buddy. We can and will start new threads if you do not like it do not read it simple?

Bottom line

Essentially the Model S comes with a one year warranty. Consider the maintenance plan as your extended warranty.

According to George B.:
WHEEL ALIGNMENT
- INCLUDED: This needs to be done at a Tesla Service Center (not by a Ranger). If you have your Annual or 12,500 mile Inspection done at a Tesla Service Center, we will include wheel alignment at no charge. If you have your Annual or 12,500 mile Inspection done by a Tesla Ranger, we cannot do alignment service at that time, but the next time you are near a Tesla Service Center, just let us know in advance, and we will do an alignment for you at that time at no additional charge.

TIRE ROTATION
- INCLUDED: Tire rotation is provided at no additional charge, but must also be done at a Tesla Service Center. This is just like wheel alignment, if you have a Ranger do your Annual or 12,500 mile Inspection, just let us know ahead of time and we’ll do tire rotation when you have a chance to stop by one of our service centers. And there will be no charge.

For me, the nearest Tesla shop will be a few states away. Being I live where I need snow tires, this means I'll have to drive to a Tesla Service Center 400 miles away twice a year to change over my tires...really??? It's a little more than just "stopping by" as he puts it. Every time I get a flat, I'll need to drive to Boston to fix the damn thing??? This (might) make it so it's no longer feasable for me...and probably many others....
Does this seem crazy to anyone else???

I would contact Tesla to see if you can work something out with them, maybe discounted price for ranger to come out or meet ranger half way?

Wheel alignment shouldn't be needed on an annual basis and as for tire rotation, if 4 tires are the same then you can just DIY, take wheels off w tires on and swap front to back.

I think the point you're making though is that unless you do the annual 400mi trip you'll void your warranty?

It think Tesla is an awesome company building a visionary new car. That said.

The montra has been better than a BMW.
BMW has free service for first 4 years.
Tesla now wants to charge us $600/year. They set an expectation and now after we have committed to the car they are not following through on their end.

I am feeling a bit hoodwinked with this service plan.

BMW: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/BMWUltimateService/Maintena...
For most luxury cars, maintenance is a hidden cost to consider. And when you compare maintenance programs, it's clear they're not all the same.

In fact, the BMW Maintenance Program* is one of the most comprehensive programs in its class and it offers the longest coverage period.

We cover all factory-recommended maintenance at no charge for the first four years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first, as well as specific items that require replacement due to normal wear and tear.

Your maintenance costs:
Engine Oil Services: $0
Inspection Services: $0
Wiper Blade Inserts: $0
Brake Pads: $0
Brake Discs: $0
Engine Drive Belts: $0
Brake Fluid Service: $0

-----

It saddens me to see that Tesla is going the route of "For most luxury cars, maintenance is a hidden cost to consider."

The crux of the matter that TSLA is missing is that we had an expectation that maintenance will be lower than ICE vehicles not on par or higher, hence the disappointing responses.

+1

I, for one, am very impressed with George's response to our concerns about the Service Plan Requirement. His response was very detailed and shows a high level of concern not only about our questions, but about the well being of our Model S's as well. (GoTeslaChicago)

I agree that it is very refreshing that Tesla talks to us "in person" (of GeorgeB). Also George's direct and clear answers to some questions are most welcome.

It is striking though that he does not touch on cost/price. Not in the least bit. I can understand why he doesn't do it, but after all, this is the only complaint most customers have. Cut those $600 in half, and 90% of the threads or complaints go away immediately. He is really just taking the discussion away from the actual core issue without addressing it, which is what he is being paid for.

For me, the nearest Tesla shop will be a few states away. Being I live where I need snow tires, this means I'll have to drive to a Tesla Service Center 400 miles away twice a year to change over my tires...really??? (bsimoes)

In all fairness, they are working hard to remedy this situation:

By March 1st of next year, more than 90 percent of all current Model S reservation holders in North America will be within 100 miles of a Tesla Service Center and more than 80 percent will be within 50 miles.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/transforming-automotive-service

murray;
the point of "hidden charges" is that they are covered by the sales revenue. Necessarily. So there is an implicit price component/increase to cover that "perk". There ain't no such thing as free. It must be "included". MB and Tesla opted for the greater transparency of not including (and hiding) it.

Points to consider: other than tires, there are no other tesla certified techs out there. Until the market expands that's not likely to change. Can you honestly tell me that a dealer isn't going to insist that maintenance on an ICE needs to carried out by a mechanic who has been certified to do so, or say that failing to do so will void the warrantee??????

Major point: this is Teslas first completely inhouse car. They need to examine it as it ages so they know if they need to account for changes, upgrades, and design alterations in every other car they build. ICE cars don't because they've had however many DECADES of use/wear and tear, and are largely understood because of it. In a way, Model S is Teslas testing ground for how they want to build a better generation of cars. They need feedback and information in order to do that.

For those worrying about the service cost staying the same for X and GenIII, I'm doubtful that it will. Once Tesla has a few years (and a LOT of miles) on Model S, they'll have a better idea of what to expect down the road for their other cars. X MIGHT be the same cost as its so close to S's release, but I will be very surprised if GenIII isn't less maintenance costs. I'm betting on about half ($300) per year, but that's just my guess, based on vapor for evidence.

Vawlkus -- Can you honestly tell me that a dealer isn't going to insist that maintenance on an ICE needs to carried out by a mechanic who has been certified...

Well, Toyota has DIY maintenance instructions right in the owners manual so yes, they don't insist that routine maintenance be done by a dealer--and have put it in writing.

As is the caveat that doing so will void your warrantee.

Vawlkus, that is absolutely not true. Doing your own work does not void your warenty with any of the other car manufacturers. Only doing the work improperly, and even then only items that can be shown that you were the cause of failure from are voided from the warenty.

Peter

Vawlkus,

That's totally incorrect (at least in the U.S. and Canada). Dozens of members of the various Yahoo Prius groups have done their own maintenance and have not voided any warranties. There are plenty of examples in the groups.

Brian H,

The hidden aspect is that Tesla has been touting the economics of their car vs a BMW or other ICE cars. Their service plan not meeting this expectaion.

For example:

Our last new car is a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. I can tell you 100% We have not yet payed $600/year on service for it for. There has been nothing to do but change fluids and filters. Still after 140k miles and 6 years I do not think we have yet to pay $600 for 1 years maintance. Perhaps next year we will put new shocks on it and we will go over $600 for the first time.

Tesla constently over delivers on every aspect (cars built, performance, etc.), I am sorry but if they set the expectation to be on par with BMW for the last 2+ years then they should meet it.

It would also be nice if they would publish the cost of a yearly inspection and what is covered under the warrente vs. this service plan.

Major point: this is Teslas first completely inhouse car. They need to examine it as it ages so they know if they need to account for changes, upgrades, and design alterations in every other car they build. (Vawlkus)

100% true, IMO. Yet that does not necessarily imply that they must do so on their customers' dimes. I paid for this car (and its development), let future customers pay for the development/improvements on future cars! What I mean is, with your argument, one could conclude that this should be covered in R&D, and not be a customer expense.

h8tow8.....according to TM you can meet the rangers half way (I asked the same question).

murraypetera, We have a 2010 Highlander Hybrid, we chose to prepay the maintenance (4yrs/50,000 miles). I pulled the paperwork to see what we paid, turns out we paid $2,500 for it and it was discounted from the "going rate of pay as you go) -- That is $100 more than Tesla's unlimited ranger pre-paid option, as well as the $600/year pay as you go for the same time frame.

On the down side, the Toyota pre-pay is only valid at the dealer that sold the package. There is now a much closer dealership, but they do not honor the pre-pay so I have to drive past it on my way to the original one. With Tesla I can go to any service center or call and have a ranger come to me.

I spent $160 for my last tire rotation and balancing on my Rav4, if they do that every year as part of the $600, take that amount right off the top right there.

If paying $600 a year for the life of the Model S (meaning how long I plan to drive it, more then 12 years) is a sort of extended warranty as well? That is definitely worth every penny right there if it is, beyond the 4 years!!

I also think it's hard enough to keep up with the original threads then to add more of the same to these forums.

BYT,

Provided it remains $600. We don't know that yet. All that is known is that there will be an extended plan.

So you are driving your old car down the road with a destination in mind but no map (or GPS). You come to a Y in the road but there no signs. How do you decide whether to take the right or left branch? I think that's where we are with the service charge. Each of us knows where we want to go but we don't have enough information to make a good decision how to get there.

cerjor,

That's about right. One of the problems with something entirely new is that everyone is making it up as they go along.

cerjor +1

Good point Beaker but I can counter with (as many others can)
My 2001 Saturn care package was $1670 for 5 years or 60,000 miles.
It did not include wiper blades, brake pads or light bulbs.

That's just a Saturn. Not anything near the same class as a BMW, Lexus or Model S.

In all fairness, they are working hard to remedy this situation:

By March 1st of next year, more than 90 percent of all current Model S reservation holders in North America will be within 100 miles of a Tesla Service Center and more than 80 percent will be within 50 miles.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/transforming-automotive-service

--Unfortunately, I'm not in the 90%. Boston is as far north as they plan to go. Right now, actually, I'd have to drive to NYC, which is farther than 400 miles, and that's one way!

I would contact Tesla to see if you can work something out with them, maybe discounted price for ranger to come out or meet ranger half way?

Wheel alignment shouldn't be needed on an annual basis and as for tire rotation, if 4 tires are the same then you can just DIY, take wheels off w tires on and swap front to back.

I think the point you're making though is that unless you do the annual 400mi trip you'll void your warranty?

--Yes, I am concerned about voiding the warranty; I thought I was all set, but if you read GB's statement, rangers can't do the alignment or the rotation. With all of my cars to date, the tire place recommends alignment, even when it's just switching out the tire and not the wheel and tire. Every spring and fall, therefore, I would need to drive to Boston in order to switch winter and summer tires.
I guess I'm questioning what is so magical about the wheel or tire setup that only Tesla Service Centers can manage to align or rotate them.


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