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What if Tesla Motors made a new motor for their cars that uses a Tesla turbine to create electricity to power the car? The results are quite reasonable. It would be at least 90 % more efficient. to make the turbine work you could hook it up to a pressurized nitrogen gas canister. and for a regenerative braking system you make the turbine work from the air intake as the car brakes

I'm sorry, what?

Tesla motors is already using "Tesla motor", it is called AC induction motor.

Excuse me,

had to look up what a Tesla turbine is. It is a blade free turbine that generates rotation from a flowing medium.

What kind of medium do you have in mind to feed into a Tesla turbine? The idea of using the air flow around the vehicle has already been discussed at great length. The end is, drawing energy from there will result in slowing down the vehicle MORE than the gained energy can accelerate it.

TESLA specifies the overall efficiency of their energy storage (charging+discharging the battery) to be above 90%. What point of energy conversion do you think a Tesla turbine would improve.

Well, see, you have this little jet engine in front of the Tesla turbine ...

;)
;p

??? you want to take an electric zero emission car and add a gas jet engine???

Why not just buy a generator and install it into the trunk space in front?

Oh that's right because the goal was a 0 emissions car.

If it uses gas I'll just go buy one of the cheaper model hybrids already on the market.

Silly me Brain was joking!

The original comment by Person1996 is partly correct. In a open system with nitrogen pressure as was mentioned, the Tesla disc turbine will work fine...but the nitrogen is lost to atmosphere, and is expensive to re-charge.

As for the use of vehicle air flow while braking to power a Tesla Turbine...it is feasible (there are Tesla wind turbines available now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyvf7iyi-wM), but probably not practical.

However, there are other ways to use the Tesla Turbine idea with the Tesla car...

For example, Formula One cars are beginning to use regenerative braking as a way of recovering energy for re-use in another part of the course. There are various methods and devices used to do this, including flywheel, generator, hydraulic, etc.

The Tesla disc turbine can accomplish regenerative braking, and much more. Here's how...

A Tesla Turbine can also function as a pump. It is basically a hydraulic pump/motor that can compress air during braking. The air is stored, and during acceleration, air pressure is released into the same Tesla turbine for acceleration.

Why a Tesla Turbine?
Powerful, efficient, reliable...just like the Tesla car!

There's a reason why Nikola Tesla said his turbine was "the greatest of all my inventions" !
(see wikipedia, "Tesla Turbine" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine)

Tesla turbine reaches only about same efficiency as emotor turned to generator. Not worth the extra complexity.

After Tesla Was released from contract at Edison he and a friend name Edwin Herbert Hall worked on Tesla's generator which he first called the Tesla Turbine. As they progressed Hall came up with his theory called the Hall Effect. Together they invented a new type of passive movement generator employing the Hall Effect. This generator strangely enough also could be used as a motor. Using 68 percent less energy than a conventional motor and about half of the energy of the original Tesla Motor. I would like to forward the Hall papers, his bio and the Hall Effect Theory, if you would give me an engineering email address to pass these wonderful documents on to you.

The current Tesla Roadster motor is well over 90% efficient. There is very little efficiency left to improve. Timo, help me as I have forgotten the actual amount.

Since Tesla turbines are being discussed Tesla did some kind of slick trick utilizing two Tesla turbines. Does anyone steeped in Tesla lore remember what this was?

I don't know the exact efficiency. They claim 88% overall efficiency, which means pretty d*mn good engine efficiency because you already lose nearly 10% at PEM and batteries.

This is from http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric/efficiency

Converting the chemical energy to free electrons (electrical energy) can be greater than 90% efficient – some energy is lost to heat in cells and other battery pack components such as current conductors and fuses. The remaining components of the Tesla powertrain – the drive inverter and motor – are also extremely efficient. Overall, drive efficiency of the Tesla Roadster is 88%

hey this is Person1996 the writer of the idea. i would like to say to mrfixitrick thanks for supporting my idea it very much appreciated

Here's a great use for a Tesla Turbine...

Mount one in the Tesla car, and power it by gasses resulting from an on-board plasma vortex combustion chamber.

The fuel? ANYTHING! Even garbage! The plasma disintegrates virtually anything into its component gasses which then can be run in the turbine. Because of its robust disc design, the Tesla Turbine can sustain direct biomass combustion, or run on virtually any fuel, with little or no particulate pollution.

Modern materials such as ceramic carbon nanotube allow much higher turbine temperatures and speeds than in Nikola Tesla's time, at one-third the weight.

100 years ago, Tesla claimed between 5 and 10 horsepower per pound of engine weight. A modern well-engineered Tesla Turbine should develop more than nine times that amount, or 90 horsepower in a one pound package.

Make it virtually silent, (low noise is another attribute of the Tesla disc design) and you have a mighty fine generator!

Garbage in, power out.

Then when you drive home to plug in the Tesla car, it POWERS THE HOUSE !; )

As for the above question from "searcher", above, about the double turbine, here's what Tesla said...

"I am now building a double turbine, one with two wheels which must revolve in opposite directions. It is for a special purpose, and I cannot talk much about that, but each wheel develops 200 horsepower, that is 400 horsepower, and it weighs 88 pounds." - Nikola Tesla, from "Motor World", September 18, 1911

The special purpose he spoke of was for a power supply for his special flying machine which had "neither gas bag, wings nor propellers".

@mrfixitrick, Fascinating post, plese visit new esoteric thread I started. I recall something in ferference to about the twin turbine thing something about a power generating station it seems. It turned out to be rather sucesful if I recall correctly.

Wish they would do a movie about Tesla.

Excuse the typos, didn't proofread and its late.

Its a good thing that Tesla is moving towards the Eco friendly cars. This will be good for our environment and our health also. Most of the companies trying to make such cars. But they are very expansive. I hope Tesla should make this car economical so that everyone easily able to buy it.
http://www.americantruckpoint.com/

mrfixitrick, Please have a look at experiment I am discussing and underlying idea or objective would like to get thoghts from you be they be favorable or not. Thanks, It is on the "esoteric ramblings" thread.

All ideas here sound good and kinda sci fi as well. On a more serious note why not apply newer technology to a different field? Locomotive power units, use these engines with the compressed gas setup to power a locomotive. No emmission mass transit/cargo haul? Sounds possible.

outdatedtech tech will also invite you to visit "Esoteric Ramblings" and critique idea I am discussing about the wheels. One thing though you will have to get out of the "Laws of Thermodynamics" box to do so. Ijust don't think ai hsve ever really got my logic concerning this over. The point is the system completely breaks off from operating system and is doing it's thing completely seperate and has managed not to disturb the the dynamics of the original system. Just think something going round and round can generate electricity. Also this device x or devices x, yet uninvented, facillitates this. All have to do is develope mysterious device x or devices x. Not perpetual motion, just another regen syetem. Be candid, my skin has been thickened by this idea,ha.

starshereas and Person1996, You are invited, also, to go to "Esoteric EV Ramblings" and crituqe the idea of the wheels as source of regen, but please remember we are talking about uninvented devices in the mix. Does it sound remotely doable if devices could be invented to facillitate this?

"The point is the system completely breaks off from operating system and is doing it's thing completely seperate and has managed not to disturb the the dynamics of the original system. Just think something going round and round can generate electricity. Also this device x or devices x, yet uninvented, facillitates this. All have to do is develope mysterious device x or devices x. Not perpetual motion, just another regen syetem."

You keep describing perpetual motion then saying it's not perpetual motion. Your arguments are a form of verbal perpetual motion. And please stop posting on every other thread inviting people to post on your special thread. Why not have a laser beam shoot power from a solar collector in space as in an 'yet uninvented system' to power your car? It's easy to come up with ideas like this.

dsm363, If you will notice one of your previous discussions mentioned stopping "esoteric discussions" wll as you can see that was partly the inspiration for the title of my thread.

dsm363 I do not want to be unpleasant with you because I do have respect for your manner on the website but as you probably read I am trying to get out of the way of what you would consider more professional sites. I would be delighted if you chose to make comments on the thread. But if you will notice I said that for all you guys that have passed judgement on my concept just to pass over it if you would be so kind. Please, in spite of your obvious technological know how, it is possible that you are missing something that I am looking at. Bet a lot of people thoght Tesla as well as many others were "Looney Tunes" on their stuff and possibley they were on much of their stuff , who hasn't been that have made real contributions. Please refrain from giving the impression that your knowledge is the last word on things . This is a free and open website. Please don't make request of me to stop inviting select people to take a look at my concepts. Any of my comments you don't like ar think are off base just kindly disregard. I think it is absolutely my privilege to invite whoever and whenever I want to. You are not being forced to read my comments. Whenever you see comment by searcher all you have to do is just skip it. And I in turn would ask you in turn to please stop making comments in reference to my inviting people to check out my ideas. I have a right to them whether they are "no gos" or not.Please do not attempt to deprive me of this because as you well know no one knows it all. I would again use one of Will Rogers quotes, "Everybody is stupid, just about different things" and that applies to me as well as everybody else.

Dsm383, In further defense of my concept. The reason I proposed the elaborate set up of the rails with receptors of some type on them is try to show that if eletrical energy could be thrown off in tesla like manner of some form or another and stored outside of the vehicle without interferring in the least with the ongoing thermodynamics of the car moving down the road then we seem to have some type of effective regen in my view. Then this being the case we could move the system inside the car and perhaps conduct the tesla type capture or transmission of eletrical current in a much more pratical,effecient, and safe way. I insist I am not speaking perpetual motion as the second system would be operating completelety on its own without interfferiing with the thermodynamics of the first system, and of curse would be just transmitting this derived eletricity from the turning wheels {turbines if you will} back to a battery. Just a conceptulization. As for what devices and how they would work, then that's where you guys come in. I honestly think it could be done over time by the right engineers. To use some outlandish comparison that you did with the laser beam thing is not fair as I believe this concept is more down to earth and practical than that. I just know that a lot of the elctricity stored in the EV battery is coming from a turbine turning somewhere by using the overwhelming force of water rushing or what ever and at the end of the cycle there are four wheels turning with overwhelming force and seemingly should not be that difficult to take this overwhelming force and send this same type energy back to battery for storage. At least some electicity by means of an ultra light and unobtrusive system. Of course I submit and agree if it interfers with the initial cycle of car going down the road it's a no go but just feel in my gut there should be a way to devise system that would effeciently avoid this. I do wish I could articulate this better. Have a nice day.

To Searcher: With respect to the "wheels as a source of regen", note that you left off braking. The key is braking. Please look up and comprehend Lenz's law and Faraday's law.

David70, Cetainly will do and I would like to take this orporunity to invite you to the "Esotoric EV Ramblings" where we can discuss laws,thories, way out maybe stuff and not get in the way of possibly more pertinent issues. Go to the thread and probably repeat what I have already heard a bunch of times,where my concept concerning the wheells breaks down.

Also would apprciate an answer on this one I requested but never got. Got to ramblings to answer it please though.

If there there is a stream that has never known to have gone dry and there is a millpond on it with a waterwheel and grist mill. Just how close to a perpetual, or relatively perpetual motion machine is the water wheel if it is theretically turning all the time{which I don't think this is needed at all times, actually} but theoretically how close is it?

Just have to believe their are some near perpetual motions going on in our world and so why does everybody just want to blank their mind out to possibilities by just the "pat statement" aw that's perpetual motion and it thus won't work.

Thanks for the reference points and excuse my stubbornness.

Einstein: "Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not entirely sure about the universe."

In the IT field, computer operators have the rep of being the mental southpaws, the wingnuts. Never had a personal contact to judge by before!

I didn't quite understand and dictionary isn't helping. What rep do they have?

Brian: Perpetuum mobile invention would be a device that taps into human stupidity and converts silly ideas into electricity. Wow, you could judge the IQ of a driver from the vehicles speed.
At least that's a pattern already established today!

Come on now guys I have acknowledged the intelligence etc. of all you and have even tried to be congenial to the point of semi-suckup mode. Why such sarcasm? Will you not concede that my concept might have some possible merit and maybe I am just not doing a good job of communicating it.

Oh yes, would appreciate a serious, non smart alecky answer to the millpond question. Know it may sound crazy, but would like to here a serious response to it.

As far as smart alecky, sarcastic, and rude surely you know by now I am quite capable of this without even a couple of suck-ups joining in on my behalf and triple teaming someone.

Oh BrianH, seriously since occupations came up, what do you and timo do for a living. I have asked this before, several told me their occupation, think VolkerP did in fact. Always have acknowledged all you guys seemingly being very technologically sound. Oh I am sorry I forgot BrianH edited or something an online technical thing. Writing skills and techno skills, good combo, especially for this site, along with his antic sense of humor. I have timo pegged for a mathmatecian who is probably one of the best read persons on the Tesla cars outside of some of the actual employees.

Sorry I aggrevate you all with my persistence. Very possibly is a no go but sorry I will have to insist further, will go to msc sources until thouroughly convinced it is a no go. Thus the invitations to other view points. Think I already have yours pretty well established. Have a splendid day.


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