Hello,
As a European I've always found the lack of 3-phase charging support on the Roadster quit annoying. In Europe we are limited to ~30A per phase, but most of the time you are charging a Roadster with 16A, at home or on the road.
With the Model S having a even bigger battery I expected the Model S to come with 3-phase charging support, but at the October 1st event at the factory I was told otherwise.
So I'm writing a letter to Tesla and I need signatures! I want to convince Tesla that the Model S needs 3-phase charging support (without a wall mounted DC charger!) so we can charge with 10kW (3x16A) or 20kW (3x32A) at home or on the road.
My letter can be found at: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6440-Endorse-my-letter-to-...
As a Europeans, we need 3-phase support!
Please, read my letter carefully and sign the other document if you support it.
Yes, I'm doing this the old fashioned way by sending it via regular mail on paper, but I want to show Tesla that we are serious on this topic.
Wido
Just signed, will be in the mail tonight. Thanks! :-)
You should also post here, imo:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forums/clubs/europe
Thanks! The more signatures, the better. I've just opened a topic there.
I ask every European to spread this and collect as much signatures as possible.
Hello Wido, thanks for your help. I will send it to you by Monday.
I live in europe to (denmark), I agree in the 3 phase charge option would be the best, however technical speeking it shuold be relativly easy for Tesla to modify the esisting 2 phase charger to chage at 2 phase 400 Volt.
I asume they are aware but the 3 phases are not in sync (120 degree shifted) so the ordenary "null to phase" is 240 Volt while the "phase to phase" is 400 volt - this will enable a ordinary 3 phase plug to be used to chage apro 50% faster - sti at 2 phases.
how ever I will post a new tread disscussing the posiblityes in wireless charging - not as fast byt way more convienient.
Can see that other treads are already pressent disscussing wireless, so no new post from me :)
I'm also want 3phase charging, But if the model S accepts DC charge, you can put only 6 diodes and make from 3phase a DC charge option.
The only bad thing about the 6 diodes is that it can't be smart-grid compatible.
That would mean you'd have to start building stuff yourself instead of having a warranty covert solution provided by Tesla.
The DC port does provide a way, but it is not preferable for multiple reasons.
"covert solution", hidden from view? Heh, gives me a funny pic of "covert wagons" crossing the plains, heading for the West -- sneaking between low hills, hiding in shallow gullies, rolling along silently in the night ... "Hey, Rufus, how much ground y'figger we covert t'day?"
Sorry!
Thank you Wido for your work. I have copied your letter and sent to Elon on Friday.
Hopefully it will effect that we in europe will get a 3 Phase charge option.
reinhard;
pls email me at brianfh01-at-yahoo.ca .
What shall i mail? I have sent the letter by using post service!
I see. OK.
reinhard, that was not exactly what I meant :) I'm going to sent my letter to Tesla together with all the endorsements I got in the beginning of next week.
Could you sent your document to me? Thank you!
Wido, has there been any response from Tesla so far?
Just read a Tweet from https://twitter.com/#!/TeslaMotors that says Model S will be cabable of 3 phase charging in Europe.
Wido, you got your wish. So how many miles per hour of charge will that get you?
Just plain ordinary 400V*32A gives 12.8kW power. That's about 45 miles / hour. No special charger needed. Those red IEC 60309 connectors are just about everywhere, so you have "fast chargers" everywhere.
Umm, since it will support three-phase those red 32A 400V connectors should give you 22kW, not 12.8kW.
Are you sure that that 32A is / wire and not combined net result? Asking because voltage is told as combined net result. I get a bit confused which way those should be calculated, and net is not giving any fast answers in this case.
3phase charging for Europe was confirmed by my customer advocate. I requested it be considered for Australia as well.
@Timo: All 3 lines are prodected by seperate 32A fuses, which means, that you can draw 32A on each phase.
The voltage of the 3 lines can be combined to 400V because the phases are shifted by 120° to each other, so you can use the gap between them. ( http://www.udo-leuschner.de/basiswissen/SB123-phasen.jpg )
If all wires have separate 32A then 22kW is correct ((32*SQRT3)A*400V). I know how it is calculated.
What I meant with my question is that when you see something like "400V@32A three phase" does that mean all lines separately or does that mean combined? It is confusing because voltage is obviously combined from standard 230V, so you could assume that current is also combined.
From Wiki "The red 3P+N+E, 6h (180°) plug is the most common connector as it allows to connect to the widespread 400 V three phase power network. The most common ratings are 16 A, 32 A and 63 A, with 125 A and 200 A less common."
That doesn't say that it is each line separately. It does say "rating" which could mean "max output". If it does, then 32 is not each separately, but combined (and you get 25.2kW with 400V@63A). OTOH if that is "mains rating" then it is each line separately. AAAARGH!
Hmmmm....found one that actually says each separately:
* Nominal voltage: 400V AC, three phase Wye
* Maximum line current per phase: 32A
* Rated current: 32A
* Frequency: 50-60 Hz
* Plug type: NEMA IEC 60309 32A, 3P
@ Timo
It also says on the same page "Load capacity: 22.2 kVA"
kVA = kW when talking about DC
When talking about AC... I have no clue, I should have listen a bit more at school :-(
When you have a current like a sinus and the current is in phase with the voltage (like in a resistor) 22kVA = 22 kW. If there is a shift between current and voltage and the kVA is kept constant the kW (which charges the car) is going down. It is even getting worse when you do not have a current like a sinus, which is probably the case when AC is converted to DC. But it is very good that it will be possible to use the three phases. Using a usual 16A-3phase connector, which is more commen at home and which needs thinner wires, we get 11kVA. With 11kVA it is no problem to charge an empty 85kWh battery during the night at home and I think this is very important.
230*32+230*32+230*32=230*sqrt3*32*sqrt3= 400*32*sqrt3=22080w
thera are stil confusions ?
@gianni, that calculation was never unclear. What was unclear was is 400V@32A three phase same thing as 400 * 32 * sqrt3 or was that already done and result was just plain 400*32. Unclear terminology problem, not physics problem.
BTW, 3-phase support for the Model S was explicitly confirmed when I asked at the Geneva Motor Show.
The whole point of 3phase is to get you a lot of power all the time, not just when one phase is peaking. So I'm guessing you'll get the 22kW calculated if each line is fused at 32A.
Too bad it would cost more than the Model S to have 3phase put into a house in the US.
Strange, that EdG. In Australia, some air conditioners are 3 phase especially larger units which i in fact have, so i have 3 phase coming into my home. In fact, the street is 3 phase, and even if the house is on single phase, it is likely that your next door neighbour will be on single different phase to yours. virtually all factories here are 3 phase wired. I admit that not many houses are, except in really affluent areas, and this has to do with home size and need for cooling mainly but also heating in winter. I do have a large home.
Please Login to Comment
10,000 kms , in 70 days and no problems