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Russia eliminates import tax for EVs

Sorry, could not find link in English
http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/853130

I think it's normally around 25%.

The rate is 19%, actually, and the measure is temporary. This could very well be part of the kiss up process they are in the middle of right now... This includes freeing certain imprisoned businessmen and a certain feminist pop group just this week.

It's still relatively low...countries like China impose about 70% which is ridiculous.

My guess is that some Russian bigwigs want a Tesla :-)

Russia is not a good place for Tesla. Outside Moscow population is very poor. And in Moscow people live in large condos that have no built-in infrastructure for electric cars.

It will remain a toy for super rich, who already own a dozen of expensive cars.

What the bigwigs in Moscow want, they will get. I expect a charging infrustructure will be in place in Moscow faster than you can say SUPERCHARGER.

When is Elon flying out to meet Putin?

Exactly. It may be, things turn around there sooner than in California. Or not. But places like that, where connections and capital get things moving, turnarounds can be quicker than your good old market can make them on its own.

By the way, Russia has the largest automotive grade lithium battery factory in the world. Or it was. But they aren't doing much with it right now as far as I know. But Russia definitely needs to modernize and quickly.

Other than oil, it hasn't really excelled at much in terms of anything completely new in past 10 years, which isn't good for any nation/market,
let alone such a large one.

"When is Elon flying out to meet Putin?"

I am sure Putin is on Elon's list right next to Syrian dictator.

And who are those Moscow bigwigs anyway? KGB? If you refer to Russian billionaires, they invest in Manhattan, not in Moscow.

The nomenklatura are getting tired of putin'-putin' around in putin-putts? Will every dacha get a NG-powered gas turbine generator to power a CHAdeMo?

"Russia definitely needs to modernize and quickly".

Yep. And that's the case for the last two hundred years.

Al1

be fair, even though its tough when US and Russia are compared.
Up to the end of Cold war, as far as tech, it was a tie and
combination of advantages for US or Russia, back and forth.

Space program (first person in space, MIR station..), aeronautics (Russia made largest helicopters, airplanes, etc..)..

Russia has issues. So does US. One wouldn't know where to begin all the cleanup that is necessary in both,.. Right now, it is just a competition
and switching places in which looks worse when viewed by independent eyes.

Political imprisonments, illegal wiretaps, persecuting whistle blowers..
Just crap on both ends. But on the tech front, or economic successes,
apart from oil, Russia is really stagnant. At least in the US things
are moving.

Car t man

"Up to the end of Cold war, as far as tech, it was a tie and
combination of advantages for US or Russia, back and forth".

I lived in that country. Maybe in Space it was tie and. Albeit all three Russian missions to Mars in 80-s failed and the first and only successful launch of Russian copy of space Shuttle happened in 1988. Chernobyl showed what kind of tie and it was in nuclear technologies.

And as far electronics it was essentially non-existent despite billions in subsidies.

Russian most recent modernization success story is closely tied to Stalin and Gulag.

The country caught up on military technologies as a result of second world war. A massive help from US under land lease program played a role. And German second world war military R&D, particularly the work of Wernher von Braun. Its a legend how engineers were being recruited in Gulag and put together to understand German drawings while still being in prison.

Anyway, on a larger scheme of things that was second wave of industrialization and took place on average 30 to 50 years behind leading countries in the West with heavy emphasis on military.

Yet to be fare the first wave was also about the same time frame behind. The third is yet still to happen.

Elon had mentioned that he had made 3 trips to Russia to try to buy an ICBM. He's an audacious guy who should do well in an audacious country...

All valid points, to a point. And you probably meant moon missions.
Both countries were vying for Nazi scientists after WWII and more of
those opted for US due to cozier arrangements. Both were simply acting
like competitors. Trying to win, no matter at what cost.

The copy of the space shuttle wasn't for the shuttle itself, but to show that they can do it quickly, if they wanted to, but more importantly, they could make it fly on its own, orbit, land.. which Nasa at the time said it
wouldn't be possible for another 20 years, etc.. Both space agencies were
throwing very good punches, constantly outdoing each other.

There was a great project, that was astounding and is just not known enough. In 1975, during the Cold war, a US and Soviet capsule docked
in space for the first time. Apollo Soyuz docking took place. And it
blew the minds of extreme ideologs on both sides. It was spectacular.

Don't mistake me for preferring anything or anything. What I am saying is that the US today, unlike Russia, where expectations aren't high and they never claimed to be the world's foremost democracy, US has been under performing for a while now. That is the letdown. Going backwards in too many ways. Russia is stagnant or moving ahead slowly. You can argue, but
Russians have a whole new level of rights, options, reach,..

For China and Russia, the base was low. So they kind of went up. With US,
with Bush, it was just a nosedive, killing credibility and soft power at an astounding pace. It wasn't a conservative but a primitive administration.

But the massive surveillance and nothing really to show with Obama, it has just been a disappointment. And for a Noble prize winner (prize on credit, for hopefully doing something good), to be chasing whistle blowers, is just
an astounding letdown.

If it wasn't for the likes of Elon, the taste would be really sour.

But the point is that US has been the beacon and all that but it is just
being soured by the garbage with the spin supercharger of politics and
fake claims, etc..

Remember, this is the 21st century and we're all still on fossil fuels, profiteering wars, based on faked info, massive surveillance, mass media self censoring, etc.. Remember the embedded reporters?

US is the kid with the most talents and is wasting them willingly. Russia and China don't under perform. They perform more or less as expected. US has kind of fallen to that level and it is just a massive loss. I hope you
get what I mean. That is the disappointment. With China and Russia, one can
be pleased that (this is what wasn't self implied a good decade ago) they
aren't starting as much crap as they could, and many expected they would.

In 2000, I was expecting China would derail the global economy by possibly attacking Taiwan. They probably didn't know it would quickly cause a global collapse and US was already on the verge of an economic collapse as it was.

But US was remarkably the winner of making the crappiest moves. To abuse a mourning and wounded nation, with the Iraqi war, was just a new low. And labeling anyone that saw through it as non patriotic, treasonous, etc.
And the media went along without a hitch... Torture? What torture?

This was how one could have described Soviet union as. Who needs to censor media if they do it themselves?

And who will catch the global economy next time? In 4 or 6 years, at the next implosion? China, India and Brasil will fall along. Nothing has been fixed.. It is still as strong as sentiment, which can fall apart in days.
Go check how Elon was feeling in 2009 when the world was falling apart,
along with Tesla. Instead of US, Russia, China and others making sure
proper and permanent solutions are put in place, they again began jerking each other. Only when everyone is threatened by imminent mutual demise, can common sense prevail. As soon as the threat diminishes, they're all against everyone again.

This time, a geographical relocation of bubbles provided enough of a bridge to narrowly escape a global depression. US and European consumers gave up. Stopped buying cars and everything. Asians and Brasil (which was OK because it exported raw materials to Asia) were able to replace the missing demand and keep the economy sputtering along until it could get some ground..

And next time? There is no reserve now. US, China and Russia are weak and in similar boats now, and all dwell on fully collapsible economies. Is anything being done? No. Democrats and Republicans are throwing feces at each other, unless they are mutually throwing them at a third party, like Russia, etc. But nothing of meaning is being done. US leadership, which it
had and should have used, instead of abusing it, is now gone because China and Russia aren't willing to follow a lead anymore. That blocks solutions.

Do you really think you're doing anything by hurting US or Russia or China?
You collapse one and you've collapsed all. You buy American instead of Chinese and Chinese have less money to buy American stuff. The global economy doesn't really care about ideologies, other than that it is harmed by any partial one. The better Russia does, the less dysfunctional it will be, less under pressure the government will be by Russians, and in turn, the more pleasant the government can be toward its population. Same goes for US and China. You want all three to be strong but a sane citizen of the world does not want any to grow too powerful in respect to others, because
historically, each has tried to abuse it so far. China would but isn't there, US did with Iraq, twisting hands of allies, Russia is doing it to
Ukraine, etc. Like individuals, they each behave like douches, if they can.

How democratic was it to spray peaceful students, sitting in non violent protests, with pepper spray, beat them up, etc? Fact is that all nations get ugly when things get tough. But in China and Russia, it seems to get
less and less ugly. In US, I didn't expect to see anything like it in the 21st century. Only that it will be tough to bring China and Russia to US
level. Now, US is volunteering narrowing the gap by lowering the bar way
too often, instead of pulling and pushing Russia and China upwards.

Putin isn't very likable person and many here take it personal, which is understandable. But let's consider a few things before dismissing Russia as a market.

* There are more Mercedes' and BMWs in Moscow alone than in the entire Germany.
* 80K cars are not just for super rich over there.
* Many Russians are also sick and tired of the country's addiction to oil and very excited about the progress Tesla is making. Resources like tesla-forum.ru are exploding with questions.

Now, I think we should welcome these emerging markets. It's good for them, it's good for Tesla, It's good for everybody. Some politically charged comments here are not helping.

I fully agree. And if the politically charged comments part also refers to myself, I agree. I only engage if anyone uses a partial optic to bash either US, China, Russia, EU, Japan, etc.. In the 21st century, we're all so connected that the only thing you can hope for is for noone to start really making stupid moves. Just focus on improving the tech, quality of life and getting along. It is great that smart people in all of these want Teslas now. Not Hummers, etc.

My friend is in Borneo for a holiday just now and complains how he hoped for clean nature and quiet.. Instead, each family has 4 cars, fitted with after market mufflers (sporty of course), and his bicycle ride is a health hazard.

I hope they get a clue sooner rather than later. Tesla did the right thing by making a luxury car first. That way, it can get in and change things.

Mercedes execs need to think every day, "we had this",
"we were preparing things like this", then we buried it. Now they play a third wheel as a result.

When Pussy riot runs the country, Russia will be great.

I made a politically charged comment in response to a politically charged comment, that Elon should fly to Russia to meet with Putin. I doubt making such a public PR to Putin would do good to Tesla or to Elon's image.

Now, politics aside:

* There are more Mercedes' and BMWs in Moscow alone than in the entire Germany.

I think its gross overstatement unless you mean used Mercedes' and BMW. Yet counting used cars won't help much. What would actually help is some kind of statistics. Not sure about Mercedes, but until very recently there were 3 Teslas registered in Russia.

* 80K cars are not just for super rich over there.

I don't think that's true statement. But anyway I never said there is lack of people in Moscow who can afford Tesla. I said there is lack of places where Tesla owners can charge an electric car.

And definitely there is lack of security or tolerance which is absolutely required to develop a culture of charging an EV in a public place.

* Many Russians are also sick and tired of the country's addiction to oil and very excited about the progress Tesla is making.

There are lots of things Russians are sick and tired of. Doesn't mean they can or plan to change much.

And by the way I don't think oil addiction is Russia's problem. It is problem for those who are addicted to Russian oil. Russia is just a supplier in this case.

Russia has been complacent due to the oil Dollars, which is an addiction. The figures about Moscow's car park seem correct. Lots and lots of capital and not just in Moscow but other cities also. Much like in China.

Considering the still present, if not prevalent, mob mentality of many of the high scale vehicle owners, I don't think vandalism of their equipment would be an issue. Many drivers there will be able to easily afford own fast charging stations (some even private super chargers)..

And everything you've come to dislike about Russia, can be removed more quickly precisely via transformations like this.

Like in China, affluent people did and are evolving, going from simply buying expensive stuff, to good expensive stuff. Not just building disgusting copies of some 16 century chapels, plated in gold, but also contemporary, sustainable buildings, have began to invest in art, also
on level of oligarchs, many of which were simple thugs, stealing property,
etc..

As long as it is moving in the right direction,..

And Putin can get things done. Lets leave aside liking him or his methods. And if he is going to get things done, it is best if he does it based on a
vision of someone like Elon, than a dumbass oligarch, who only likes and
understands bling...

"Now, I think we should welcome these emerging markets".

Sure we should welcome be it Russia or Turkmenistan. I am just not sure what are the expectations from Russian market. Its market size is nowhere close to say India or Brasil, let alone China.

In terms of sales it will never be at par with Norway. Now, Norway may be special case, but I believe Estonia will buy more Tesla. Because Estonia has network of charging stations. Russia has pride and Putin.

@Car t man

"And Putin can get things done. Lets leave aside liking him or his methods. And if he is going to get things done, it is best if he does it based on a vision of someone like Elon"

Putin may be vision driven too. It is just different kind of "vision". His vision is to restore Russian empire, ideally within the borders of 19-s century. Worst case, have some "sphere of influence", similar to Brejnev doctrine with privileges to appoint governments to neighbor countries.

You may want to know what people from those neighbor countries think of this. Ask people in Kiev who live in the streets for the last month in the plain winter.

They think his vision is a lunacy. And so do those millions of Russians who are "sick and tired".

Competitors mold competitors. Putin was somewhat of an open book when he was elected. Lets face it. Most of us expected far worse at the time. He met Bush, they started what appeared to be an OK relationship, then Bush began his crap, which also, in real world, impacts global geopolitics and his crap kind of meant trying to single handedly reshape the global geopolitical map (and not in that fluffy, we will all be better off way) and it put everyone on the fence. You can bet Russians and Chinese took notes. Everyone stopped trusting supposed positive intention of US then. The man shat on the entire US history. Even allies turned away. In terms
of bullying, Putin was an amateur compared to Bush/Chenney/Rumsfeld.
The three nearly killed off everything good US have been working for.

Try to find a video of the G20 meeting in November of 2008, when the economy was imploding and observe how all global leaders shunned Bush.

Putin wasn't in position of power in terms of global geopolitics. US
was and abused it in the most rudimentary ways. It is surprising that
China didn't simply go, "screw it, they are pulling their crap off, lets hit Taiwan quickly ourselves", Russia maybe former republics, etc..

All norms went out the window when US abandoned them. Mind blowing. It is shocking that Russia and China didn't try to "use" the window to pull their
crap. Afterall, US was doing it, so why wouldn't they be able to...

EU stopped helping, Russia went its own way, and as nations do, began turning to what many there perceive the good old days of power, much like the fallen US empire, is trying to reinstate everything it lost or might have lost during the economic collapse. Remember the doctrine of the new
US century? It wasn't exactly about non imperialistic inclinations.

It is the wet dream of any large nation's old guard. Of every lame ideolog.

China too wants its greatness and power and none really have it. All are just shaky mechanisms, clinging to economies which can pop in weeks, trying to project power over that in all the lame ways a nation can.

You resent Russia. I resent everything bad about Russia, US, China and any other nation or mechanism. I don't pick favorites. But US had by far the nicest package and nearly killed all of it. Russia and China didn't have it. Putin didn't want Russia to become a US satellite. He succeeded. It
is what a president of Russia is kind of supposed to do. He has a very
burdened legacy. Lots and lots filthy stuff he's done.

How is US droning, spying on allies and foes, starting wars on faked info, overthrowing elected governments etc.. any different?

Keep in mind that Bush, the soldier shooting civilians from the Apache helicopter, torturers,.. all roam free today. I agree that Putin and
Russia have a record a mile long but I don't see where and how to separate just Russia. All large nations on this planet are, unfortunately, disgusting when one looks below the table and neither can change anything
in the current competitive landscape. Only a mutual threat can temporarily
disengage that. Otherwise it is just flow of crap, constant jerking around..

US doesn't try to overthrow governments abroad? Twist hands and extort, bribe, etc? All play the same shitty game. How many here would be shocked,
really shocked, if tomorrow we find out CIA runs the damn Mexican cartel?

The biggest shock is maybe that often Republicans and Democrats do worse things to each other than what is going on between the nations. But the point is that US is the one we had and still have to a degree, high and
highest expectations for. It is also the only nation constantly claiming
to be different. But different how? Placing a more gentle or ergonomic spying probe up everyone's ass? Like you, I want US, Russia and China to
bee from crap like this. But just like I don't think Tesla will be better
and better if everyone witholds criticism, when it is due, I don't think
singing blind praises to any country is a good thing. Most suck really.

US now has a highly intelligent, educated president, with probably highest aspirations, yet can't do anything of meaning, because he also isn't in position to do anything because he's caught in the same crap.

I like that you see Russian flaws. But if you come out flaming, do it by holding same standards for everyone. I also happen to see them in other nations. So when any are becoming better, I'm pleased and when any is getting worse, I'm not.

To find out that the beacon of light also happens to shove probes up everyone's asses to listen in, I'm not. When Putin jails artists
and whomever, I'm not, when Obama chases whistle blowers, with 20 times the
credibility of himself, as it turns out, I'm not. When China copies US and tries same methods, to buy leaders in Africa, I'm not, but feel at least a bit better because they also include hospitals and schools in the package, not just money, prostitutes and military backing for the jerk being bribed.

There is no greatness on level of any large global nation currently. There is very little in terms of corporations also. But Tesla is an example standing out. For now. I hope it stays that way. It is embodied US
greatness. I am sure many here missed that a lot over recent years.

@Car t man

This is Tesla forum not political forum. Tesla has limited resources and needs to prioritize. Elon has recently said Germany is number three country on Tesla list after US and China. He didn't list number four, five or ten. And I agree with that.

As far as Russia goes, it is just another country. Sure they can import Teslas like everybody else, like they import Mercedes or BMW. I just don't think there is much potential in Russia. There's India, where only rich population is twice the population of whole Russia. There's Japan with its process engineering, Tesla should watch out. There is UK, where legislative body asked Elon to advise on EV, essentially offered him to make a legislation tailored for Tesla. There's Australia. In Europe alone there are emerging Poland, Turkey who has strong economic ties with Germany and where Tesla expansion will be seamless.

Russia? As they say it has great future. And it will remain so. The guys just want to improve their image before Olimpics. Potemkin village this is so Russian.

@Al1,

you started making comments about a large global nation/market. I found it troubling that one nation was somehow described as the only nation with said properties. As far as politics/geopolitics go, Tesla is a factor. Oil, energy resources and allocation are major factors in geopolitics. China's refusal to support big oil's ambitions is a major geopolitical factor.. The fact that on this forum, about a car that is meant to be global, move global paradigms, one hears a lot of nationalistic comments, most of which are empty words, and in many cases, some posters simply aren't aware that they're part of a broader world and that Tesla is certainly acting like that.

And it doesn't really matter what Tesla's current plans are, because they are based on predictions. Could turn out that Germany will be smaller than Russia or another nation, etc. We'll see, but you can bet Tesla is hoping to be strong in Germany and Russia and that Elon drawing visions for likes
of Putin is better than some intellectually dead oligarchs with stale views.

A few politicians in UK also want to improve their image and named Elon, likely without having a real genuine interest. Just like all nations you mention, US is also only one of the many markets, at the end of the day. US is also happy Russia is the topic of the month instead of US spying. Everyone is just a PR and spin master these days. Everyone is full of crap. Right now, all are just taking shifts at being naked and it ain't pretty.

China, US and Russia are masters of Potemkin villages constructions sadly. Everything is a front for something. Again, neither does anything really good without being forced into it by economics, competition from the other or by literally getting poisoned at this time unfortunately. When you try to minimize the effort to somehow single out one nation, we can end this part of discussion. You always seem to come back to that one you dislike.

Tesla is a global company and a global phenomenon and the sad part is that, as you may have noticed, it is under attack foremost in the US. Russia is an oil export dependent country and it isn't on the list of suspects by
conspiracy theorists, as the possible saboteur. Neither is China. It is
sad that attempts to kill off Tesla mainly come from the US.

And if making good, or let's say more positive deeds, is just a ploy by the Russian governments, to improve PR ahead of Sochi games, good. They need to
learn the impulse that open minded and positive actions are rewarded. The only way they will improve further. I wish US would react the same way and
fully decompose the illegal wiretapping crap as a "cheap PR stunt". If only.


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