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Signature S pricing

Hello,

I got off a call from the rep few weeks back with an unsure answer. What is the approx pricing of the Signature S? He said it is going to be 'comparable' to a BMW 5-series. Well, that could be anywhere between 60k-85k....

Anybody has any insight?

Regards,
Sharad

What does "$15k worth of options" really mean? Is it $15k of cost to the manufacturer, or what a car dealer can get a customer to splurge for? Does it cost a car maker real money to paint a car "metallic blue"? They might ask $1000 for it over basic black.

I'm sure there are lots of options that may be "worth" a bunch of money in that the maker could add to the bottom line by charging for them, but supplying same doesn't really add to their costs.

For a car company that's not "too big to fail" to be able to use the money for expenses for more than a year, I think it only right that they toss in what they can as a big "thank you". How else to reward the faithful and generate good feelings? By charging for everything? That would not make them different from the used car dealer on every corner.

There may be costly add-ons to be offered, and they'll have to decide what to do with those. One item Franz told us: a full spare tire isn't one of them....

@Ad van der Meer. An interest rate on a 1.5-2 year risky loan, what, 5%? 10%? This isn't some FDIC insured account, so it's a non-trivial risk. I'd think somewhere in the vicinity of 5-10k in freebies wouldn't be an unreasonable reward. Especially since it's a reward that'll only happen if you buy the car so MSRP price on the freebie might be 10k, Tesla's cost isn't.

What would have been cool, given Tesla is making 300 mile range cars first, is to charge Sig customers for the 230 range and give the 300 range free as the reward. I swear Tesla has said the batteries have high margin, so they'd be giving away an upgrade most likely every Sig user would be happy about (unlike some other options) and Tesla's cost would be much lower than the 10k value given to customers.

There has to be a reward for being a small VC, but it will be hard to determine what is fair. 10k may be (very) ok for someone who puts his money in 6 months before delivery, but what about those who got their money in right at the beginning (2009?)?
A special paint job and a plaque would be disappointing indeed, but I predict there will be disappointed customers no matter which way Tesla handles this issue.

Talked to a rep today who said the Signature was expected to be around 90K (USD)

Perks: 300mile battery, all upgrades included, special marking, extra color options, one of 1st 1000 produced, and potential higher resale value/collectors item.

Well thanks for all the comments here. I think that I would rather not get the Sig. and just go for the regular package and just upgrade the batt. to a 300mi option. The rest just depends on what whay have to offer. Other then that I would rather not exceed the 60k mark. Even then the price is a little steep I think. Specially with this economy, 60K monthly payment would be rather steep indeed.

Obviously all of us are just guessing at the price point for the Signature S (I'm a Signature S reservation holder). If the base 300-mile model is 74,900, I suspect that built in options (21 in. wheels, panorama roof glass,, special paint/interior materials, etc.) will add another $10K. I'm expecting $84,900, but who knows?

I just hope that Tesla doesn't do what Fisker did and jack the base price by $15K as delivery nears. It turned off a lot of customers and one of them was me.

Obviously all of us are just guessing at the price point for the Signature S (I'm a Signature S reservation holder). If the base 300-mile model is 74,900, I suspect that built-in options (21 in. wheels, panorama roof glass,, special paint/interior materials, etc.) will add another $10K. I'm expecting $84,900, but who knows?

I just hope that Tesla doesn't do what Fisker did and jack the base price by $15K as delivery nears. It turned off a lot of customers and one of them was me.

If Tesla takes that path, the Sig price would be close to $100K. If they do that, they're going to disappoint a lot of potential buyers.

Talked to a different Store rep the other day who said $95K (USD) for the Signature.

Obviously, sales reps don't know either or are not allowed to tell. Since the options list is not fixed yet, you can't expect that option prices are. Tesla probably is in the middle of negotiating prices and availability of options with third party suppliers.

About the 300 miles pack for the Signature model.

If you select a European country on the web site it is not noted as include in the package of model S Signature.

I hope it will not be mandatory, I would like the car to be as Ecological as possible even if Li-ion battery has surprisingly small ecological foot print.
I don't need a big driving range,I do around 30 miles per day & the longest trip I did over the past 5 years might be 150 miles.

My guess is between $83,500 and $87,500 pre-rebate. That would keep the price within striking distance of the stated competition and stay just a bit south of the $90k boundary. If they go past $90k, more than a few folks on the signature reservation list (myself included) might begin to have second thoughts and Tesla will invariably loose some initial sales. It's important for Tesla to show robust early sales, and aggressive (low) pricing will only help. At least I hope that's the company's philosophy.

Sofl... I hope you are right about the price. You and I are in the same situation; I will let go of my Signature reservation if the premium is too high versus the standard.

I agree with most. I just put my depsoit for signature and several articles quoted sig at 77 k. If it goes above 85 k Im going production 230 with panoramic roof and assess other interior options.

The initial on spec holder should definitely be rewarded for their faith in Musk and Tesla.

"several articles quoted sig at 77 k"

Doing the usual journalistic fact-checking. They're quoting the price of the 300 mile general production model.

IMO, the minimum price for the Signature Edition will be $87k. (Before federal rebate of course.) Keeping in mind that it will almost definitely include the premium paint, leather seating, non-Internet connected NAV system, special badging, and premium interior trim. More than that, we don't know.

Other *possible* options included in the Signature Edition (if included will surely increase upward pressure on the price):

- 21" wheels
- Air suspension
- Premium sound system
- Pano roof
- Built-in drinks cooler under dashboard. :-D

Interesting. Too bad Tesla waited this long to price the Signature. If Tesla prices the Signature too high, some of the Sig. reservation holders will downgrade. If they price it too low, it will essentially be the same pricing as a (P)300 without the beautiful red paint and 21" wheels.
What to do? What to do?

Either way, after it's priced:
- Some (S) reservations will move down to (P)
- Some (P) reservations will move up to (S)
- Some folks will be happy, some will be pissed.

Food for thought: Model-S (Base):
300 Mi Base Cost ~ $77,400
Options (Est) ~ $12,872
Other Costs (Est)~ $13,461 ...(Sales Tax, Transportation, Luxury Tx, Exscise Tx, Licence Fee, Prep Costs)
Total Cost ......~ $103,753

Model-S Signature:
300 Mi Sig Cost ~ $95,000
Options (Est) ~ Incl...Plus others)
Other Costs (Est)~ $14,513 ...(Sales Tax, Transportation, Luxury Tx, Exscise Tx, Licence Fee, Prep Costs)
Total Cost ......~ $109,513 == +$5,759 Extra!???

$5K for all the extra goodies,,,OK!?

Well, your "option est" amount is very est. but then, so is the cost of Sig.

I would expect the price to be 35k more than the base 160 mile model. This is based simply on the difference of the deposits required, which in turn implies 15k worth of "included" options from the 300 mile model. The only "bonus" I would expect is the badging, a negligable cost difference to Tesla.

No federal lux tax on EV's I believe

"The only "bonus" I would expect is the badging, a negligable cost difference to Tesla."

I agree with that. I think the cost of a base 300 miler with the equivalent options added will be at least equal to the price of the Signature edition. The difference in deposit amounts is irrelevant and completely unrelated to the final price difference between them. IMO

No sales tax or luxury tax in WA state. Woo hoo!

1. configure non-Signature 300 to 'max'
2. configure Signature 300 to approximate 1

I expect the results of 1 & 2 to yield about the same pricing, with perhaps a slight bump for the badging.

The difference arises from 4 things:
a. delivery/production-order
b. limited availability / prestige
c. further options can be added to Sig

Just my impression from the public information I've seen thus far.

If my characterization above is correct, if 'c' is not compelling or the bump is not slight then many Sig reservations will consider switching to non-Sig.

3 things (I edited it twice :P)

I think the Signature will include the larger wheels, the signature red paint which from what I understand is the best paint job possible (quality not available in other 3 colors that are available for the Signature), and the panoramic roof. My reasoning for this is that when you configure a P (non-signature) model, the defaults are black paint (signature red not available), body color roof (which you'll only see if you switch to a color other than red), and 19" wheels. The signature on the other hand, defaults to Signature red, 21" wheels, and a panoramic roof. I suppose they have to give the options to Signature holders to downgrade options if they don't like them. Not all signature holders may be interested in the Panoramic roof and some may prefer the 19" wheels. Does this make sense to anyone else?

on my statement above, I meant, "...if you switch to a color other than black."

I suppose they have to give the options to Signature holders to downgrade options if they don't like them. (maxmindel)

Sounds reasonable and I would certainly expect the same with production in full swing. However, during the Q&A of the Q3 2011 earnings call, Elon was specific that in the first few months options will be limited and Tesla will not produce the full mix of cars:

"Look, now for the first several months of production, we’re going to constrain that the option mix to a pretty high, you have to order stuff that’s got a pretty high option mix initially. [...] And there will be a couple other options that are kind of mandatory in the initial period. But that makes it easier for us to constrain the number of variables in the start of production and so, we don’t have too many variations of vehicles coming out of the factory." (Elon Musk, transcript)
http://seekingalpha.com/article/304764-tesla-motors-ceo-discusses-q3-201...

Elon also made it clear that by requiring "high option mix" initially, Tesla will realize a higher margin on these early cars. He's (correctly) assuming that a high proportion of reservation holders are relatively price insensitive and will collect from us a stiff early adopter tax.

I heard from a rep that the panorama roof will be optional (as will be the sport package) and that the air-suspension is likely to be included with the larger wheels. expected price for sig reasonably loaded but without options is "talking around 90k" but at this point, given lack of hard confirmation, should be taken with several grains of salt.

I can see the price being a bit below 90k before taxes and tax credit or as much as 95-100k with options. However, I think at that high end, they are pricing out of the market model s was intended to address. I could easily buy an E-Class diesel for 10s of thousands less and it would be competitively economic to run after fuel differential and service. I'm willing to pay a premium to go electric, but not willing to pay once for the price of two well equipped luxury sedans...

It's very difficult to justify the price of a fully loaded Model S with the fuel savings. However if you add in these benefits, it starts to add up:

- your "tank" is always full each morning.
- the convenience of being able to avoid the gas station every few days.
- the additional convenience of avoiding oil changes, air filters, & etc.
- the quietness of the ride
- the amazing acceleration at the lower speeds from the fantastic torque of the electric motor
- the largest GPS screen in the world!
- that last plus the best valet mode and other tech in the business
- the lowest center of gravity of any car in the world with comensurate handling, esp. If you get the air suspension.

These are things, (and more I'm sure), that cannot be provided by standard ICE vehicles regardless of the price!

What do you say to that?

@Mycroft:

We're all in this exciting forum for those reasons. Now, devil's advocacy:

When I put 10 kW of photovoltaics on my roof, I didn't do it at a huge loss just to be more green. I did a calculation on how long it would take to pay for itself as an investment. For these kinds of investments, I usually demand a payback period less than about 8 years. For the PV system, I let it slide and allowed 14 years, figuring that the cost of electricity was more likely to increase during that period than decrease, thus reining in the payback time.

Yes, I like to help reduce smog, but my calculation is the best way I have to include the total energy cost of manufacture to convince myself there will actually be savings.

The argument for the Model S is a bit more complicated. All your arguments are valid, but, like my PV system, there's a limit to how much money people are willing to spend for nice, in-vogue stuff. This car was touted as a competitor to a Mercedes car (there has been some flip-flopping in this forum as to which line Elon was using for comparison). I'm hoping that he sticks to that comparison on a feature AND price basis, making the choice a lot easier for prospective buyers. Then, anyone who can afford one can afford the other, and all you have to do to get a Model S is overcome your range anxiety.

The option that swings the price most dramatically is the battery upgrade. I just ran through the MB "build your own" E-class BluTEC, matching options as closely as possible to the Model S standard build; I got to about $65k total price (incl. destination, excl. taxes). If we assume that the base 160-mile Model S plus destination is about $51k after the federal rebate, that gives us about $14k of "free" options to build a like-to-like car against the E-class. One battery upgrade (to 230), and you're fine. Two upgrades (to 300), and you've just blown the budget -- but only by $6k. Depending on how much you pay for electricity, and the future of diesel prices, that will likely take a few years -- about 50,000 miles of driving.


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