Looking forward to concrete information...
What happens if I pull in to a Supercharger right after someone else has depleted the battery?
Then you'll be fed delicious grid power.*
*Obivously I don't know anything about this. We'll get the details in a week.
Someone over at TMC gave the image from the invitation email a Photoshop treat to reveal at least some of what was hidden:
Looks like a rail gun. Boosted starts after charging?
Don't black out.
With a rail gun, 0.01s 0-600. Not blacking out is not an option.
I said this before and I think it is time to say it again: Elon is building several hundred small solar power plants with this charger infrastructure. Distributed solar power. Turn grid more green for everybody.
I'm starting to wonder where this car revolution doesn't affect. It's altering a lot more than just cars we drive.
That would be the Trickle Charge network, then.
I'm thinking grid tied with some solar augmentation. To achieve Supercharger power levels, the geographic footprint for a stand-alone solar array with battery storage would be measured in acres. Probably not practical or cost effective.
On the other hand :) http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/06/Ivanpah-plant-could-cause-ma...
Here's some text to go with that: http://www.inquisitr.com/261930/mojave-solar-power-plant-could-flip-airp...
Birds detonating in mid-air! What sport! A big tourist draw, for sure.
Cool article. This is what I was trying to convince other people about what talking about "green" energy. There is no way for us to remove energy from the environment without it affecting something in some way, and often times, the other incendental infrustructure we have and they way capture the energy can also have an effect, beyond just the removal of energy itself. That's not to say we shouldn't pursue these different avenues, it's just that it's a mistake for the layman to think that "renewable" energy automatically means unlimited free energy with no ecological harm.
I RSVP'd to the Hawthorne, CA event, but have not gotten any conformation email back, has anyone else got a conformation, or are they just getting an approximate count of attendees?
I sent my RSVP on Monday and received email confirmation at 2:52pm PT today.
I just checked my mail and got it. Cool, see some of you guys there!
Yes; e.g. harvesting Big Bang background MW is "renewable" and "sustainable". Same with Moonshine.
Brian H | SEPTEMBER 18, 2012
"With a rail gun, 0.01s 0-600. Not blacking out is not an option."
Not turning into jelly is not an option.
If you stay more than five minutes in a Walgreens store, you've stayed too long.
Comparing the image released to the car pictured under it the roof is about 12-13 metres long, assuming it is 2 car widths wide makes about 4 metres wide giving a total area of 50 square metres. Around the US solar insolation varies but on average solar output is about 5kwh/sq. metre/day, so a solar array on the supercharger pictured in Tesla marketing could produce 250 kwh/day, In California and Nevada this would be closer to 350 kwh per day. The superchargers are designed to perform 50% charges in 30 mins, with charging losses this means about 50 kwh needed per charge. So essentially with just the solar panels on the roof of the carport you are looking at producing all the power needed to perform 5-7 supercharges a day on solar alone. The idea that you need acres of solar panels is simply a myth. With a battery pack at each supercharger sized according to the volume of activity at each site solar definitely has the ability to supply the bulk of the power needed, a standard grid connection to "trickle charge" the battery during periods of prolonged low solar input is all that would be needed to supplement the solar, and during high periods of solar input it is certainly foreseeable that the solar array could produce more then necessary allowing the trickle feed to reverse to grid feed mode.
Takes all day to get that, on a curve. No particular relation to draw/demand. And cloud kills it. You've heard of clouds? Water sometimes falls from them.
Hence the batteries, they store charge, from the sun the previous day or a trickle charge overnight, perhaps you've heard of batteries? Electric cars drive on them.
By noonish the max charge available is half the daily total, but demands could be many times that by then; there's no knowing when it will arrive. And storage/discharge are both lossy. You get back some, not all, of what went in.
Not fit for purpose, IMO.
That might be your opinion Brian, I don't see why it gives you the right to make puerile statements insinuating people who disagree with you are simpletons who have failed to consider the simplest of issues. My opinion is that having chargers in the middle of nowhere on the sides of highways with potentially multiple connections each requiring a 90kw instantaneous capacity is not for purpose without storage to buffer that demand.
You just stack 10 Model S batteries into a box, then run the same hardware and software the car has to keep the batteries from overheating, etc. Give it access to the internet so the amount of usable energy is available to drivers planning their breaks. When there's not enough charge for a stop, the drivers will have to plan on something else.
?? I did not state anyone was not considering anything! But battery storage does not substitute for adequate "input" of electrons. Reliability is critical; an SC station that "ran out" of juice due to a mismatch of supply/demand, which could easily occur with reliance on solar, would be a serious matter for someone counting on a boost!
And not all places have year-round usable sun. SoCal is not typical. It would be ludicrous to count on it in the NE corridor, e.g.
Anyhow, such an arrangement may supplement a robust grid connection, but hardly supplant it. That's my prediction, and I doubt TM is going to bet the farm on solar.
Another issue I've raised elsewhere, btw: how many outlets will each station have for simultaneous charging? One? Four? Ten? Draw could be very high with a few in use at once.
Asking me whether I'd even heard of clouds was not disparaging or questioning whether I'd considered basic considerations?
Apologies. But those of us on the North-Wet coast etc. find this reliance on the sun shown by those at the lower latitudes to be very parochial! I've literally seen 40 days running of rain/drizzle/snow sprinkles here. With 8-hrs of "daylight".
Don't forget to sink the batteries in the ground 10 ft for a nice cool constant temp also.
And my vote is a 20' by 40' Solar setup grid tied to a single phase 240 with the batteries to level the power draw and supply the high current draw during charging.
The only limitation I see is that once the batteries are drawn down, the station could only charge 1 car for 30 min per hour.
(No use discussing with Brian H. He is right by nature. It is a gift we can only admire, so you should be grateful that he shares his wisdom with you, and then move on.)
What losses do you consider for charging then discharging the batteries? It seems to me that it's great to have backup, but routine employment of a battery bank would be rather inefficient.
Docrob +1, that's how I figured it to work. Also agreed with Volker.Berlin, don't listen to Brian H, he can't be argued with in any reasonable manner. If he chooses he is right, then there is nothing you can do to make him think otherwise, no amount of proof can change his mind.
X Deutschland Site Besuchen