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Tesla fans who criticize folks who criticize Teslas:

First let me say that I have been in love with the Tesla since first seeing one in 2010 and am diligently saving for my own Model S. And I am such a fan of Elon Musk's brilliance and vision for our future that my daughter calls me a "Musketeer"! I'm constantly telling people about this wonderful car and am the first to jump in and site real facts when someone makes some inaccurate, uneducated remark about this amazing machine.

However, I find it distressing when someone posts a problem with, or criticism about, something to do with their car, and people get so angry that they resort to name calling and disparaging remarks. If you haven't watched Elon's interview with Christopher Anderson from TED, you should. In it Elon says that it is important "to really pay attention to negative feedback and solicit it, particularly from friends. This may sound like sort of simple advice, but hardly anyone ever does that and it's incredibly helpful."

So let's go a little easier on these folks and offer any helpful suggestions you might have regarding their issues. All of these remarks are only going to help Telsa make improvements and build an even more awesome car in the future.


Makes you wonder if some of these aggressive troll hunters are Tesla employees....

A counterpoint is that much of the criticism (not all though) is ill-informed or based in willful ignorance.

There have also been MANY trolls that claim they are owners but can't seem to get access to private forums.

We owners and Tesla fans have spent countless hours researching, studying and examining the benefits and drawbacks of the Model S.

When someone complains about a loud A/C rattle or a bad 12V battery or a tire pressure sensor that comes on intermittently, they Do Not get attacked.

But if you post that Tesla sux because they sat down on the seat with a pen in your pocket and it ripped the seat, then expect to get blasted.

Be prepared to defend your complaint. Make sure it's logical. And real.

It took me about 4 or 5 tries before I got access to the private forums by emailing people others on this forum said to email. Finally I used the contact form from the Tesla site and it got done that time. I tend to believe those I read who can't get access although that doesn't mean everyone is truthful.

+1 SamoSam.

+1 teslagma

Sorry SamoSam, there have not been "many" trolls. Even the one so roundly criticized as the king troll (nickniketown) wasn't really a troll IMHO. There have been many owners who post in the heat of frustration leaving out important details and then likely never come back due to the tongue lashing they receive here.


What you just said may be - I'm guessing - a key to the private forum access granting: the contact form may first get read by the website management team whereas an email is going to the ownership team. In the case a direct email may involve more internal communication to get the process started.

Yeah, the trolls don't bother me. It's the troll hunters that take over the conversations and start hurtling insults. The troll hunters are like people chasing flies with baseball bats. If this forum ever goes bad, it won't be from the trolls but because of the negativity of the hunters.

Examples of each extreme exist, which is not a surprise.

Those who earn respect here have the good sense and goodwill to disagree without being disagreeable.

If something does not seem correct, a large number of forum members should treat the poster politely and gently debunk the post (assuming it is fake). It exposes the issue and speaks well for the community.

+1 all posters above

Speaking as a Tesla newbie, I've spent about a month at this point reading these forums and those over at Telsa Motors Club. Oh, and Tesla Tap. A month of late nights and early mornings and middles of the day and pretty much exhausting myself with my fascination with All Things Tesla.

After all that time, I still have barely scratched the surface and remain keenly aware of my lack of general auto knowledge much less Tesla specifics.

I see questions asked and statements made that a month ago would have seemed bewildering to me and today I wonder whether they are troll bait or trivial. I have to step back to remember how I would have felt a month ago.

I am grateful that there are so many wise people assembled here who patiently answer questions of all sort. I'm sure it's a burden! But the rest of us benefit immensely. The general tone of politeness helps a great deal, at least for me.

As Tesla increases in popularity, there will be more naiveté in these forums. I hope there will be as much or more tolerance, as well.

Thanks for listening.


P.S. Still trying to figure out how to automatically add a signature in this forum. :-( If it matters, I reserved on 7/1, finalized on 7/2, have a delivery dated variously advertised as "late July", "August 20" (first official delivery team quote) and "August 11" (second quote). P85+, fully loaded, far more car than I can use and handle, but nonetheless an object of joy.

I'm sure it's a burden!

It's hardly a burden The way you know that, is that some people are willing to take the time to answer questions regradless whether or not they know the answer.

But, there are people here who are very knowledgable who also have that rare ability to impart very technical information in such a way that even the most techno-adverse readers can appreciate and somewhat understand the concepts. They are natural teachers and they enjoy sharing what they know, especially with an appreciative audience.

Having been on the forum now for about 4 months now I agree with you. I agree a number of those out there are not trolls. People are entitled to their feelings on an item about the car. It's always important to have a discussion then evaluate what is said to improve on what exists. The people on this forum are a combination of die hard fans, those that are waiting till they can buy ( me July 2014), some that would like changes and others that have a problem. The majority of owners are not on the forum but happily driving their car.
I love the Tesla MS but by the same token I am glad to hear people's opinions on a problem or a perceived problem.
Finally if people ignore the " trolls" the thread will die early.

Everywhere there are people that will blindly and zealously defend one group over another.

There is politics, game consoles, computer/phone operating systems, east coast/west coast rap etc...

In each of those settings if you attack one group/company/artist you will get rebuffed even if your ideas are valid.

And in those situations the people have much less invested, here we are talking about people that have spent upwards of $100,000, they do not want to hear even the hint of arguments that they made that decision in error (just ask the people still supporting Fisker)

It creates a strong incentive to label anyone who makes a negative comment a "troll" and that justifies an attack.

easiest way to kill tesla is to kill it's stock price. how do you do that, you go to forum where future tesla owners are doing their research. if you instill enough fear in them, you will turn them away from purchasing.

if they can get to a new york times reporter and have him publish rubbish, what makes you think they don't have someone being paid to troll here and put fake posts up to scare away potential buyers?

all these dumb arguments about the range is not the published range if you floor it at every light. so what, how is that different than a ICE car? if you let the battery die, it will be a brick. if you forget to add oil to ICE car, it will be a brick too.

fud fud fud!

I have to whole heartedly agree with your comments about Fisker. I have a friend who owns one and I have had the rare pleasure of riding in it. It is a beautiful machine but why anyone would pay $150k for a "hybrid" is beyond me. Now that the Tesla MS is available I think that is a much more logical choice. Regardless I highly doubt that the people who purchased a Fisker or a Tesla or any other high end car want to hear that they purchased the vehicle "in error".

In the end all we really want is to share our opinions, learn from each other and make logical suggestions to Tesla for ways to improve on the already amazing designs. My only hangup so far is the drive range which I have no doubt will continue to grow as the technology is advanced.


Well i ordered my model S in may (NL) and only got acces to the private part last week (I wasn't aware there was one lol) afther i took action.

@Pollux +1

Still learning every day (even of it's english by Brian H)

I disagree with you assertion that by using the Tesla forum you are going to have trolls reduce the stock price. People doing the research on the Forum will be doing a lot of reading. As we have seen some with concerns will voice their concern on the Forum. Besides the forum there are organizations like consumers reports etc. that give glowing reviews.
As an owner of the stock that I bought at $21 dollars first day I am happy with the stock price. However the P/E ratio is out of wack. The belief held is that Tesla has performed almost flawlessly over the last few years and the stock appears to be forward looking towards the Gen III. If Gen III comes out as promised the belief by some experts is that stock could be over $300. I am one of those that believes that Tesla will get a Gen III.
To the point from @teslagma we should respond if we have a thought to what is expressed by someone else, realize that there will be bashers of the car and just ignore them and the thread will disappear.

@kimscar, tesla can't get to gen iii if the fear is successful to prevent adoption. you heard it from elon that the nytimes article even though it was proven wrong cost them hundreds of orders.

if they don't make enough to fund gen iii because demand was driven away by fear, there will be no tesla.

I could be accused of being one of those rabid troll hunters. I don't think I've actually called anyone a troll, but I do respond when someone says anything negative about Tesla that I feel is inaccurate or that doesn't make sense. This is a good problem for a company to have.

I can see the meeting now:

"George, we have to do something about those rabid troll hunters on the forum. Now who are these people?"

"Just owners of our cars... technology fans.... environmentalists... car people."

"Well, what do our competitors do about this 'rabid company fan' problem?"

"They don't have such a problem! Most of their 'fans' spend all their time replacing the factory parts with better (or worse) aftermarket parts. They are busy trying to improve their performance. They don't have time to defend the car company."


I own a Model S, don't own any stock (darn it!), and my motivation is just that I get pissed off when someone intentionally or inadvertently trashes Tesla with a bad argument. Like the poster who innocently titles his thread "BRAND NEW TESLA DOESN'T WORK" and then inside the thread it continues "... as a shipping van because you can only get a single pallet in there." Or a thread that implies that Tesla did (or should) rip off an idea for regenerative braking from a BMW. What a joke! That's like implying that Apple needs to take packaging lessons from Microsoft. Why would Tesla want to pollute its car with ideas from the inventors of the I-drive?

End of rant.

I have been on this Forum for 2 years now. It remains a learning experience and enjoyable. My observation is that there is an increase in trolling and fud type posts just before earnings reports (next one 8/8/13 I think). There are forces trying to manipulate the stock price, but they get little traction on the forum.

Sometimes this trolls are easily identified (and flagged)....many times not. Playing "wack-a-mole" on the forum takes away from my enjoyment. If a topic gets too heated I will usually avoid posting. There are times when the discussions in the forum have unexpected results. While we can sound like cats fighting in the night it is often (just like cats) actually the sound of making more Tesla fans...

Tesla (the company) is an amazing machine manufacturing amazing machines (S & Roadster so far). I am pleased to see that we Tesla owners/fans are a diverse bunch. Getting off my soapbox now.....

One thing I noticed is that the way a thread it titled will often set the tone for the entire thread. If it starts with dramatic rants or sounds overly alarmist, then the poster doesn't get very far very fast. Lots of exclmation points and capital letters tends be the first red flag for lots of people. It makes it look like they are not here to request assistance or guidance.

If it starts out factually stating an issue then they get lots of nice help or guidance on where to get the help they need.

bigbit | July 26, 2013
model S in may (NL) and only got acces to the private part last week (I wasn't aware there was one lol)
Still learning every day (even of it's english by Brian H)

Just capitalization, today!
Proper names (including cars - Model S),Months of the year (May), and languages (English) are always capitalized.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Where does one find the access to the private part of the form? I have sent request for access a month ago and gotten confirmation on that I will get it but cannot seem to find how to enter the "private parts" :-D

There have also been MANY trolls that claim they are owners but can't seem to get access to private forums.


I think a lot of the most vocal "troll hunters" are just shareholders who don't like things that impact their share price.

I find the troll hunters much more offensive than the trolls.

+1 GReese.

Anyone that thinks posts here are going to affect the share price up or down give way too much credit to these forums. Or they are day traders looking for minute changes to trade on. Nothing said here is going to cause a major swing one way or the other.


I agree with the Op that the troll hunting can at times seem a bit out if hand. However, speaking for myself only, when I was doing my research I took it as a positive that people are so passionate about the car and company.

The first thing I heard when I told people I was considering purchase of a Tesla was "Eww, I've heard bad things." They would then go on to tell me about the NY Times article or talk about the range issues, charge issues and battery degradation. Fact is there was not one person who thought it a good idea. Unwilling to be dissuaded, I turned to the Internet and the first thing I found was the NY Times article and lots of commentaries talking about range anxiety and other EV fears.

It was the owners and the forums that turned things around. Especially the postings that spoke of issues that were properly and promptly fixed. The fact that people were getting hot under the collar in defense of the company and car impressed me. People can pretty much say any dumb thing they want about any other car I've owned and I probably wouldn't muster the energy to care, but the Tesla is different, and that's coming from somebody not holding stocks, (darn it).

Tesla is new and different, a deterrent all by itself for many, never mind the many people who wish Tesla would just disappear because they work for oil or ICE car companies, etc. As a casual observer who only knew it was a pretty car and a great concept, I was unaware of "trolling." If I had come to the forums to find that the angry, all caps posts complaining of bad cars were simply ignored I don't think I would have gotten the warm fuzziness that lead me to buy the car.


The poorly titled threads are authored by the same people who give one star to a product they bought on Amazo because it came a day late.

"They sent a shipping notification that I would get my TV on Wednesday. Wednesday came and went and no TV. What horrible service!! I called them and they said that the trucking company had a problem with one of their transfer points. What's that?! Anyway, best damed TV I've ever purchased as long as you don't care if it comes on time. 1 star."

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