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Tesla Model S vs Acura NSX

While I'm still waiting for my Tesla Model S, I'm tempted to cancel and entertain the new Acura NSX as a possible option. It is cutting edge, beautiful and may be in the same price bracket as the model S. it had been announced that it will make its production debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January. There may be only a 12 - 15 month lag time between delivery of my Model S and the Acura. Any thoughts on how well the Acura will stack up.

Concept = Vapourware?

apples and oranges.
NSX is not a family sedan, plenty of cars to choose from in this segment...

Agree but if price point is similar I need to consider it. Just as i would consider a Porsche, BMW, etc. These are viable companies with a rich history. Tesla is a company with a limited history. Acura has AWD - Tesla does not. Among other things that are lacking in a car over 100, 000 (my cost for the tesla nearing 110,000.

But you shouldn't compare a 2-seater sports car with a Tesla S.
They are designed for different purposes and have very little in common other than that they are both expensive cars.

You cannot compare tesla model s with any ice car on a cost basis. It's apples and oranges, one is a paradigm shifting CLEAN car, and the others are just more of the same. Without easy access to super-chargers, the tesla is clearly the less practical car, so one must be willing to pay a premium for the effort to move cars away from gas. If driving a cleaner car doesn't factor into your thinking, it's a no-brainer.

Agree with sergiyz. If you want a 2 seat sportscar maybe you shouldn't be on the reservation list for a Model S in the first place. If you want a luxury sedan, you shouldn't even be considering the NSX.

Are you sure you know what you want?

@sbern

If driving a cleaner car doesn't factor into your thinking, it's a no-brainer.

Disagree. I don't see the Model S as less practical at all, and "cleanliness" has nothing to do with my buying decision. If anything, I see it as more practical since I'll never have to make a special trip to refuel again, and will spend less of my time refueling overall than I would with an ICE vehicle. [considering that charging is done unattended but pumping gas is not]

And it's a lot cooler.

I considered R8 and went with performance s for practicality. I think anything around 110k is fair game.

@gmpurdy: Go ahead, cancel your S reservation. I am sure the folks at Tesla will cry in their organic low-carb beer. The posters above are right, you are not in the market for a sedan.

p.s. what is the NSX 0-60 time?

@tesla.mrspaghet +10

Found it: Motor Trend estimated 0-60 in 3.0 seconds.

LOL@Tiebreaker "organic low-carb beer"

If you have the dough, and really like electrics, here is a car for you:
1088 BHP, 0-60 2.8 sec.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-09/13/rimac-electric-car

http://wot.motortrend.com/croatian-electric-supercar-hits-60-mph-in-unde...

How about MPG? Super Unleaded? CoG? Handling and grip on the road? Can you say it hugs the road with a feel that is similar to the Rolls or was it a Bently? I forget? But your right, if you wanted a sports car, I would consider a used Roadster maybe??

here's the referance: http://translogic.aolautos.com/2011/10/03/exclusive-first-ride-in-the-te...

Quote: "Even with the Model S sedan's tech-packed dashboard, 4-door coupe good looks, and quickness off the line, we may have left most impressed with the ride quality. We're going to go there and say it: we haven't felt a ride this smooth since driving the Rolls Royce Ghost, a car that starts at nearly $250,000. Of course, we offer the disclaimer that we were driving on Tesla's own perfectly paved course, but the way the chassis moved around the turns was nothing short of extraordinary. A lot of that is due to the optional air suspension, but also benefits from the ground-up design of the car's space frame chassis."

God, I can't wait...

I'm leaning in the opposite direction, the 45 mpg (combined - 45/45/45) new Lincoln MKZ hybrid for 37k is tempting me. It'll be in showrooms in a couple months, and I want to check it out. According to fueleconomy.gov, the difference in yearly "fuel" cost is bigger between the MKZ and a 328i ($700/yr) than the Model S and the MKZ ($600/yr).

Maybe it'll suck, I dunno, but I'm trying to test drive everything I can before my "Build your car" email comes in. $60k for a 60kwh is damn expensive.

What's your res # archibaldcrane?

The two cars can't be compared. Gas vs Electric, Sport vs Sedan. You have to want a clean car that promotes energy independence that still performes like a sport car. I already have an NSX (2002)and can't wait to get my Sig Performance.

P12,106, it'll be at least a few months before I have to build or defer.

Ok, I was going to advise you to defer or cancel if you had a lower number than me :)

But seriously, the fuel cost difference you posted above doesn't seem right. Figure out your average miles/yr driven, divide by mpg for the ice vehicle, then multiply that by the price of gas / gallon in your area. Multiply that by the number of years you expect to own the car and add it to the cost of ownership for any ICE vehicle you're considering. That's the price you have to compare to the Model S.

If you really want to be picky, you could also add the cost of electricity to the total cost of ownership for the Mod S, but it's a pittance in comparison to the ICE fuel cost.

Ignore that mpge nonsense.

You can't completely discount electricity costs, they are a factor (unless you're running full solar, which I'm not). Here's what fueleconomy.gov shows, for LA current fuel prices, driving 100k miles (look at the number beneath the "YOU SAVE" number):

Photobucket

Of course, the Lincoln does not perform like the Model S - the 2011 Hybrid did 0-60 in 7.1 http://autos.aol.com/cars-Lincoln-MKZ+Hybrid-2013-Hybrid__4dr_Front_whee... compared to 6.5 or 5.9 for the Model S. I'm sure it does not drive as well, CoG, noise, etc. But it's (even after paying for 100k miles worth of fuel) $18k cheaper (for the 60kwh) or so, and you can get things like standard leather, ventilated seats, blind spot monitoring, cross-traffic detection and a superior sunroof as options.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Model S is amazing. But if I'm going to drop that kind of cash on it, I'm exploring EVERYTHING else out there.

No, those numbers still look high. Remember electricity is cheaper at night - often MUCH cheaper. Humor me, use my calculation. I really don't know how they got their numbers and I think they are wrong. At least I can explain my calculation. Tell me if you think it doesn't make sense.

By the way, I do discount electricity since I'm actually on a plan where it's free from 10pm to 6am :)

Yeah, that's assuming 12 cents per kwh, which is higher than I'd be able to get on LADWP's separate meter for EVs program (although that does have an $8/mo fee). Between low and high season, tiers, etc. it's hard to put a single number on price-per-kwh - but for me, 12 cents per kwh is high, it may be in the 5 cents range.

Still, it's nowhere near closing the price gap between these two.

If you have a 100 grand to drop on a car fuel cost is not a factor. Further while the NSX is not electric, it is a hybrid that uses electric motors (I believe 3) and uses a unique AWD system. In addition people are also buying the Tesla S for the "conspicuous consumption factor", "wow factor" and having the latest greatest technology - see the forums on "celebrities that have Tesla's"', "people taking pictures of people taking pictures"', etc. for evidence of this. The fact that you might save a little money is near the bottom. My question was more to do with comparing the significant investment in the car - one company is a maybe where the other company is well established. The question is valid in terms of cost and technology.

Tesla isn't really a "maybe" anymore. It is almost guaranteed to go profitable in first quarter of next year. After that there simply isn't anything similar in the world, they will be top dog pretty fast.

Future is pure electric. Not so far future either, cars (batteries) are already ready for it, only thing missing is the fast charging network for long trips and Tesla is in process of correcting that little lack of pure BEV infrastructure.

If you are willing to wait a bit, Tesla next sport car will be made in GenIII platform and pretty much will blow all the competition away (Model S is not a sport car, it is premium family sedan. The fact that it competes with sport cars just shows how superior pure BEV platform is).

@archibaldcrane & gmpurdy

I'm not trying to convince anyone that buying a Model S will "save you money" because it won't. I'm just trying to make sure a fair comparison is getting done.

Let's assume you expect to own your Model S for 8 years (arbitrarily picked the battery warranty period). Using my driving history, I rack up about 22k miles/year and I pay about $3.50/gallon for gas. The claimed mileage for the hybrid mentioned about is 45mpg - let's take that at face value.

(22000miles/yr) / (45mpg) x $3.50 x 10yrs = $17,100

That's what you have to add to the cost of ownership for the hybrid

If electricity is $0.05/kwh, assuming you drive 22k miles/yr again, using the cost calculator on the Tesla site for 60 miles/day (22k/365) works out to $0.85/day or $3100 over 10 yrs.

So your total cost of ownership for the hybrid is $37k+$17k = $54k

total cost for the Model S assuming your sticker is $60k is about $63k

I don't know how they figured out their values at fueleconomy.gov, but I think they should be drug tested.

Oops, I said 8 years but calculated for 10. My bad.

But you get the picture.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that buying a Model S will "save you money" because it won't

Depends of your point of view. If I want a car that is as quiet as Rolls Royce Phantom, sticks to the road like BMW M5 and as fast to accelerate as ...hmmm... Porsche Panamera GTS I think my cheapest choice is Tesla Model S.

@Timo

Fair enough.

But obviously it wouldn't make sense to trade in your Yaris for a Model S if you were on a tight budget and looking to cut expenses. That's what I was getting at.


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